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Presentation so full of lies it was comical!

jwalk03

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I went to a 915 presentation at Ocean Watch this morning and my goodness. The lies this guy told were something else. I mean absolutely comically bad!!

Telling me all about the new vacation clubs “Mr. Marriott” bought (for half a billion dollars) in St. Croix, Jamaica, Dominican Republic, Barbados, Cozumel, Puerto Vallarta, etc, etc.

O and “Mr. Marriott” is writing big checks to get brand new Pulse locations built in New Orleans, Chicago, Seattle, Dallas, San Antonio.

The new Charleston location is being built on a site where a historic building burned down and Mr. Marriott swooped right in with a big check to buy it and get all the permits and everything approved so quickly they are already pouring cement and it will be fully open by next year!

And they supposedly bought Hard Rock Vacation Club and they are going to offer All Inclusive Timeshare stays there along with new All Inclusive Westin vacation clubs all over Mexico.
And he told us all about how he does seminars for owners on how to make money renting out their ownerships so they don’t have to pay any maintenance fees. And he hasn’t paid any maintenance fees in his over 30 years of owning Marriott.

the Welk Resort that “Mr. Marriott” bought in San Diego is the #1 rated beach resort in the country! (Except you know the part where that resort isn’t even close to being located on a beach!!)

All the fabulous Marriott inventory is being pulled from Interval. Even though they own it and paid dearly for it- Marriott didn’t really want it. They are so big their owners don’t need to exchange anymore with all these other fabulous options coming online.

And all this new inventory is going to be bookable online with points by the end of June- but as soon as that happens points price is going up to $20/pt. (Westin and the other new resorts are already charging $24/pt so Marriott needs to catch up ASAP!)

He realized very quickly I wasn’t buying his BS and sent in the encore package lady.

In and out in less than 45 minutes! Very easy money on a cloudy morning!!
 

jwalk03

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Mr. Marriott would be proud of you for not laughing out loud at the guy.

Yeah I thought about calling him on his BS but he seemed in a hurry to get rid of us so I just let him drone on.

I did ask if we could see the model villa- and he wouldn’t even take us up there. He said they were having an important meeting in there so it was closed!
 

LUVourMarriotts

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Out of curiosity, was it Steve? I only ask because you mentioned he said he's owned for over 30 years, which he has told us a few times. But, could be a common thing they all say.
 

jwalk03

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Out of curiosity, was it Steve? I only ask because you mentioned he said he's owned for over 30 years, which he has told us a few times. But, could be a common thing they all say.
Yeah I think it’s a very common lie. They all have been owners forever, lol.

No his name was Tom Dowell.
 

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I wonder which Mr. Marriott that jackass is referring to? But, guess what, I have Mr. Marriott's (JW, Jr.) home addres, so, I'll write him a note, and ask him about his many strategic moves.

You've got to bring a can of this with you, to your next presentation, and just spritz it (under the table), like the ladies do in Bloomingdale's, as you wall by the perfume or cologne section:

This hits the top 10 of funniest things I've read on Tug.
 

geist1223

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Winner. Winner. LPM. Lies Per Minute
 

rickandcindy23

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We have been to some doozies ourselves. I remember Gavin Griffin specifically being full of baloney with every single statement he made.
 

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Yeah I think it’s a very common lie. They all have been owners forever, lol.

No his name was Tom Dowell.
Tom Boyer is another one to stay away from. Even the other sales people roll their eyes when you mention his name. Of course I didn't learn until he hooked us. His main job is managing all his mvc properties.
 

goaliedave

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If their lips are moving, they're lying.
 

DRH90277

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Tom Boyer is another one to stay away from. Even the other sales people roll their eyes when you mention his name. Of course I didn't learn until he hooked us. His main job is managing all his mvc properties.

If MVC stopped their sales personnel from commercializing their timeshare rental portfolios and bragging about it, the rental problem would probably go away.
 

Dean

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If MVC stopped their sales personnel from commercializing their timeshare rental portfolios and bragging about it, the rental problem would probably go away.
I doubt many who fall for this are likely to actually rent routinely. I suspect a VERY large % of rentals, esp those that are truly done commercially, come from those that are extremely well informed, basically a subset of those like TUGGERS. They are not likely to fall for this sales tactic. My definition of commercial would include volume and consistency but not any dollar parameters. I suspect a large % of rentals comes from those that rent occasionally, it just adds up over time. I doubt MVC has a good handle on the numbers either. They just see the truly commercial portion and realize it's a threat to their bottom line AND the members as a whole. Unfortunately it's likely to always be "buyer beware" and "if it's not in writing, it didn't happen".
 

DRH90277

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I doubt many who fall for this are likely to actually rent routinely. I suspect a VERY large % of rentals, esp those that are truly done commercially, come from those that are extremely well informed, basically a subset of those like TUGGERS. They are not likely to fall for this sales tactic. My definition of commercial would include volume and consistency but not any dollar parameters. I suspect a large % of rentals comes from those that rent occasionally, it just adds up over time. I doubt MVC has a good handle on the numbers either. They just see the truly commercial portion and realize it's a threat to their bottom line AND the members as a whole. Unfortunately it's likely to always be "buyer beware" and "if it's not in writing, it didn't happen".

Dean and others, see if this is about right (for non-commercial renters) - Go easy on me as I'm getting older every day - still trying to get the Marriott thing to work.

I believe all rental units come from owned weeks (the week or the points from deposit of the week), weeks acquired using points, and from MVC. None should be coming from any other source including Interval (rental is prohibited on Interval exchange weeks). I doubt Interval would or could rent out any weeks deposited as exchanges.

Owned week rentals - this is the free market and the price should vary depending on demand. This market is stimulated by low maintenance fees on the weeks and should generate a reasonable margin. My rule of thumb is these should generally rent for about twice the maintenance fees of the weeks rented. I think the market rental rate is set by these rentals. MVC would probably like to control this group the most, but this is probably the least controllable group.

Points reservations coming from week deposits for points - these are a hybrid and should enjoy the attributes of the owned week rentals. Underlying maintenance fees for these points are the same as the weeks exchanged for points and should enjoy the same margins. The other attribute of these points is they have the use flexibility of the points system for fractional stays.

Points reservations from purchased points - again, this is a free market. This market is adversely affected by the high maintenance fees on purchased points but benefits from rentals of fractional periods. Unless someone is in a pinch, I doubt most of us want to acquire weeks to rent out using these points. However, rentals of points from desperate owners might make this more profitable as the owner is probably renting the points at bargain prices.


So why does this matter - First, the market price is likely set by the Owned Week rentals. Second, I don't think point owners would buy points to acquire weeks to rent out due to the lower margin imposed by the high maintenance fees. MVC is probably trying to discourage the owned week rentals and is likely frustrated by the lower MF's enjoyed by this group in relation to the points. And finally, MVC probably wants to control those who rent points or weeks from desperate owners and use them to acquire rental inventory at very low prices - and this should be the target. But, if MVC makes it too tough on desperate owners with too many points, there could be an outcry.

Only my view.....
 

Dean

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Dean and others, see if this is about right (for non-commercial renters) - Go easy on me as I'm getting older every day - still trying to get the Marriott thing to work.
Aren't we all, LOL. The question is the definition of commercial. To some it's any profit which I think is an unreasonable way to think about it for several reasons. Where I see the problem is the situations where we could all agree it's commercial and I do not think a single listing or two on redweeks or similar is necessarily commercial either. To me it requires both volume and a a pattern over a couple of years or more.
I believe all rental units come from owned weeks (the week or the points from deposit of the week), weeks acquired using points, and from MVC. None should be coming from any other source including Interval (rental is prohibited on Interval exchange weeks). I doubt Interval would or could rent out any weeks deposited as exchanges.
Interval could if they allowed it but they do not, they rent themselves including owner deposits. IMO it should be easy to block all rentals made with points since it's a trust that's not anchored in a direct ownership and given the lack of a home resort, it might be best if they did. Enforcing it might be difficult though.
Owned week rentals - this is the free market and the price should vary depending on demand. This market is stimulated by low maintenance fees on the weeks and should generate a reasonable margin. My rule of thumb is these should generally rent for about twice the maintenance fees of the weeks rented. I think the market rental rate is set by these rentals. MVC would probably like to control this group the most, but this is probably the least controllable group.
Agreed. I do feel that market forces are at work but since timeshares are a fringe options other than possibly DVC, they are very inefficient. All developers would like to give the illusion of the ability to rent but actually prevent the competition.
Points reservations coming from week deposits for points - these are a hybrid and should enjoy the attributes of the owned week rentals. Underlying maintenance fees for these points are the same as the weeks exchanged for points and should enjoy the same margins. The other attribute of these points is they have the use flexibility of the points system for fractional stays.
Once one elects points you give up the benefits of the underlying week, points are points IMO. I do feel points reservations should have a higher priority than II exchanges at the resorts which is not the case at most resorts.
Points reservations from purchased points - again, this is a free market. This market is adversely affected by the high maintenance fees on purchased points but benefits from rentals of fractional periods. Unless someone is in a pinch, I doubt most of us want to acquire weeks to rent out using these points. However, rentals of points from desperate owners might make this more profitable as the owner is probably renting the points at bargain prices.
So why does this matter - First, the market price is likely set by the Owned Week rentals. Second, I don't think point owners would buy points to acquire weeks to rent out due to the lower margin imposed by the high maintenance fees. MVC is probably trying to discourage the owned week rentals and is likely frustrated by the lower MF's enjoyed by this group in relation to the points. And finally, MVC probably wants to control those who rent points or weeks from desperate owners and use them to acquire rental inventory at very low prices - and this should be the target. But, if MVC makes it too tough on desperate owners with too many points, there could be an outcry.

Only my view.....
To me the real question is what is the primary motivation. Is it greed or is it fairness to the other members or is it a combination and if a combination which is the main driving force. While I know it's not a popular opinion around here, I tend to think that fairness to the other members and the complaints of difficult to get reservations showing up on rental sites are the main driving force rather than greed. Still I think it's a problem touting rentals at sales presentations then trying to limit them on the back end.
 

DRH90277

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Thanks Dean,

Commercial refers to "making or intended to make a profit." Considering upfront and ongoing costs, this timeshare owner would never reach this threshold.
 

Dean

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Thanks Dean,

Commercial refers to "making or intended to make a profit." Considering upfront and ongoing costs, this timeshare owner would never reach this threshold.
Given that renting is an inherent right for an owned week, IMO, I don't think the dictionary definition of commercial is applicable here. In the end it wouldn't matter with your methology. Many who want to use the dictionary definition would say that anything over direct costs for the year was commercial. IMO that's just another way of saying they don't think members should be able to rent at all but they usually won't say it that way.

This is why we stop doing owner updates/sales presentation. We are on vacation and we do not need to hear fairy tales from a salesperson .
I have to say that I find most of them reasonable. I'd guess that about half have some element of usable info and about another quarter are friendly enough. Maybe 5-10% with MVC have been annoying or worse. I can only think of one that was completely off the wall, Ko Olina in 2018.
 

jwalk03

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Given that renting is an inherent right for an owned week, IMO, I don't think the dictionary definition of commercial is applicable here. In the end it wouldn't matter with your methology. Many who want to use the dictionary definition would say that anything over direct costs for the year was commercial. IMO that's just another way of saying they don't think members should be able to rent at all but they usually won't say it that way.


I have to say that I find most of them reasonable. I'd guess that about half have some element of usable info and about another quarter are friendly enough. Maybe 5-10% with MVC have been annoying or worse. I can only think of one that was completely off the wall, Ko Olina in 2018.

This guy was nice enough- and not confrontational. I just knew about every other sentence coming out of his mouth was a lie. His only slightly confrontational moment was when I said no and he said:

“I can lead you to water but I can’t force you to drink. You’ll see soon enough when all the Marriott inventory is gone from II.” And with that he was out and the “survey” person was in.
 

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This guy was nice enough- and not confrontational. I just knew about every other sentence coming out of his mouth was a lie. His only slightly confrontational moment was when I said no and he said:

“I can lead you to water but I can’t force you to drink. You’ll see soon enough when all the Marriott inventory is gone from II.” And with that he was out and the “survey” person was in.

"You’ll see soon enough when all the Marriott inventory is gone from II.”

We have heard this nonsense since the inception of the Destination Club (I'm thinking, about 15 years ago). And guess what, to date, that is largely a lie.

One must remember that MVC and subsidiaries, consider "exchange guests" to be a very captive population of potential MVC Owners to market to, particularly, when they are on vacation at MVC resorts ("in the ether"), through MVC's In-House and pre-arrival marketing channels. I can think of at least 10 reasons why the suggestion/false representation made by that salesperson is a lie (for which that person should be fired, and lose his South Carolina real estate license). Even "Weeks Owners" are considered by MVC to be a "captive audience" to sell Destination Club points to. So, MVC is not going to cut off their nose, or their income stream, particularly when every MVC Associate, in the "MVC Sales Organization/hierarchy" is "bonused," based on "production," and achieving certain metrics, as are many menbers of MVC's Executive Committee.

In my opinion, the time has come for consumers to demand integrity, and transparency, in MVC's sales and marketing processes (for example, inviting us to an "Owner Update," conducted, not by an MVC "service" person, but by an MVC "sales person," with a primary purpose of "selling points (why else would MVC offer us $100.-$300.00 to attend a "service" presentation), and to end their deceptive marketing practices. Further, these deceptions and lies, are a failure of MVC's Leadership to "maintain business integrity;" failure to do so, represents a violation of MVC's Code of Conduct for their Associates. Hence, in my new life, I will keep Marriott Internatinal's Executive Leadership, including Board members, apprised of these (MVC) deceptive and unethical (and illegal) business practices at MVC, and the leadership of South Carolina's (and many other states) Real Estate Commission.

I've had it with MVC thinking that it's OK to badger us while we are on vacation, and their deceptive/illegal business practices.

How many TUG members remember their first MVC sales presentation, when, within the first 15 minutes, you heard about "Old Man Marriott," and his committment to business integrity, and the highest ethical standards? I don't know what "moral compass" MVC uses.
 

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This is why we stop doing owner updates/sales presentation. We are on vacation and we do not need to hear fairy tales from a salesperson
We were on a timeshare vacation last week and when I "picked " up our room key cards and she started her spiill, I finally told her, "We are on vacation and all I plan to do is focus on my family".
 

rickandcindy23

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The insinuation in a statement that all inventory will disappear from II is that Marriott might eventually allow current after-DC resale owners to enroll. IF they EVER do that, it would definitely make a difference to me. Then again, my Willow Ridge and Shadow Ridge are not valuable traders in Abound. The number of points for the MF's doesn't really make sense.

When I try to think about what points I would get for what I could use them for and the bottomline cost, I get a headache. My brain doesn't want to go there. I will take my great II trades every time.
 

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The insinuation in a statement that all inventory will disappear from II is that Marriott might eventually allow current after-DC resale owners to enroll. IF they EVER do that, it would definitely make a difference to me. Then again, my Willow Ridge and Shadow Ridge are not valuable traders in Abound. The number of points for the MF's doesn't really make sense.

When I try to think about what points I would get for what I could use them for and the bottomline cost, I get a headache. My brain doesn't want to go there. I will take my great II trades every time.

You can enroll post June 2010 into the Abound program. Just costs well into the 5 digits per week.

I enrolled my Willowridge, Grand Vista, and Harbour Lake units into Abound. I never turn them in for points but use them as traders in II. For the savings in lockout and trade fees, break even point is about a decade. Then it will be free trade and lock off fees. I take it as prepaying my trade fees and in 10 years it will be gravy. This does not take into account the Aruba Surf week 52 that I purchased and have been renting. If you take that profit into account, it brings the break even to about 7 years.

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