Potential owner looking for advice

[brianmenier]

Hi all,

I'm looking at several different packages in the resale market. 7000, 8400, and 9600 points. All properties are on the Vegas strip. From what I can tell, they have the lowest MF's and taxes. There is only a $200 difference in MF's between the highest and lowest. I get the opportunity to vacation at least 1 week a year, but have several long weekends throughout the year. Is 7000 enough points or do I go for the 9600 and risk not using all of them? We are a family of 3, so typically a 1 bedroom would suffice in most cases.

There is also a $7000 difference in upfront cost between the 7000 and 9600. In your opinions, does that even come into consideration when making the decision? (assuming paying in full at closing)

Thanks,
Brian

 

[Ron98GT]

You need to look at the HGVC Member Guide:

http://multimedia.hiltongrandvacations.com/mg/images/member_guide_2012/eng/pdf/ios.pdf

It all depends where you want to travel to, the season, how many weeks/days you plan on using your HGVC TS. Hawaii and NYC require lots of points

If you travel to somewhere like Vegas or Florida in the off season, you could use half your points to stay in a 2-BDRM. If you stay in a 1-BDRM in the off season, you may only use 2400 points. If you need to travel in plat season, but stay in a 1-BDRM, you only use 4800 points.

 

[brianmenier]

You need to look at the HGVC Member Guide:

http://multimedia.hiltongrandvacations.com/mg/images/member_guide_2012/eng/pdf/ios.pdf

It all depends where you want to travel to, the season, how many weeks/days you plan on using your HGVC TS. Hawaii and NYC require lots of points

If you travel to somewhere like Vegas or Florida in the off season, you could use half your points to stay in a 2-BDRM. If you stay in a 1-BDRM in the off season, you may only use 2400 points. If you need to travel in plat season, but stay in a 1-BDRM, you only use 4800 points.

Thanks for the info. We are looking for the most flexibility to travel wherever we want. It seems to me like the most points possible is best option. Unless I'm missing something.

 

[Jason245]

Hi all,

I'm looking at several different packages in the resale market. 7000, 8400, and 9600 points. All properties are on the Vegas strip. From what I can tell, they have the lowest MF's and taxes. There is only a $200 difference in MF's between the highest and lowest. I get the opportunity to vacation at least 1 week a year, but have several long weekends throughout the year. Is 7000 enough points or do I go for the 9600 and risk not using all of them? We are a family of 3, so typically a 1 bedroom would suffice in most cases.

There is also a $7000 difference in upfront cost between the 7000 and 9600. In your opinions, does that even come into consideration when making the decision? (assuming paying in full at closing)

Thanks,
Brian

Just to make sure I understand the transaction:

for 2600 extra points you are going to pay $7000 extra (or over $2 per point). That doesn't sound that good to me... since you can get 7000 point packages for about $1/pt.

Don't forget that you can borrow next years points in advance for no charge (for the years with lots of vacations), and there are many cash rental opportunities (including open season and RCI last call (last call has 1 week rentals as overbuilt areas like vegas and Orlando for under $300/week).

Based on the $7k extra number I am going to assume that you are being offered the 7k points for ~7k and the 9600 points for ~$14k....

Depending on where you plan on going and when, 7k points may be more than enough depending on the type of room you want. The $200 per year +interest on the $7k you don't spend could almost cover a whole week with RCI last call...

Remember it is much easier to buy then sell a time share. look at the sticky and all the threads you can. Maybe post one of the"what should I buy" questions in the newbie forum. Look at all the HGVC resorts (and info related to them including points costs and dates of seasons) and make "fake" plans for the next year or two and see where you sit points wise. If you find yourself going to Vegas or Orlando remember that cash rentals are at or below MF costs generally (vs Miami and hawaii where cash rentals are always more expensive). If you are thinking about NY, remember that that location is very difficult to get into (you need to reserve right at booking window which I think is something like 45 days). For hawaii, you need to book 9 months out unless you have access to home weeks options. Points Reservations need to be for at least 3 nights (Except for NY)

If you are planning to Use RCI more than HGVC, HGVC probably isn't the best option for you. If you are thinking of converting to HHonors points for hotel stays, again probably not the best option.

If you used less than 7k points for the year, then 9600 is way to much, if you used 10k points for the year, then you might want to go with the 9600 because you always want to live in Hiltons pocket (since it costs to move points to next year, it is better to ensure you use everything up)

For example, with my 4800 points package I have done the following reservations for this year:

3 Nights in Miami 1BR
3 Nights in Marco Island 2BR
6 Nights in Orlando 1BR

To accomplish all this, I had to borrow 910 points from next year (no fee).

Next year I may go to a few other resorts, but I am also open to making other reservations with my travel dollars should i burn through too many points and not want to borrow all my points a year in advance (e.g. Cruises, and other trips to hotels with cash or TS rentals in interesting locations).

While my MF for the 4800 points is a few hundred more than vegas would charge, my cost to buy in was next to nothing leaving me with a big cash "war chest" to play with for my family's travel needs (that would have otherwise been eaten up by a higher buy in).

 

[tompalm]

Keep shopping and consider all options. Sometimes you can get a deal on 8400 points and it will not cost much more than someone trying to sell 7000 points. If you want lots of points, two 5000 point units might be cheaper than buying one 7000 points, but maintenance fees will be higher.

 

[JSparling]

When I look at buying HGVC I focus on two things - lowest MF per point and total cost over 10 years. You pay the closing and purchase price once, you pay the MF 10 times (over 10 years). So build a simple spreadsheet and plug in the various scenarios. $7K purchase and $1K to close plus $1K for MF for 10 years. Then divide that by the total number of points you get over those 10 years. Then plug in your higher purchase, higher point options.

You'll find this in most cases - the MF is what matters. In most cases paying a few $K more on the purchase is worth it if you're getting more points and the same, or cheaper MF's. But you really need to look at your total out of pocket divided by your total points over a long period, like 10 or 20 years.

And you're almost right - the Vegas Strip location has the 2nd lowest MF's. The Vegas "Karen Avenue" (AKA Vegas Hilton Convention Center) has the lowest MF's. So don't buy anywhere else but one of those two locations (unless the home week/resort option is something you have to have - but that's a different conversation).

If you didn't know this about MF's it's important: the MF's for the same size unit are the same at that property. So a 2BR at the Vegas Strip location has the same MF for people with 5,000, 7,000, or 8,400 points (silver, gold, platinum, penthouse....). That's why the prices for a platinum week are higher on the purchase side of things because you're getting 7,000 points for the same MF as the poor guy with only 5,000 points. Over a long period of time you'll more than recover your purchase price if you get more points for the same MF.

 

[chrono88]

When I look at buying HGVC I focus on two things - lowest MF per point and total cost over 10 years. You pay the closing and purchase price once, you pay the MF 10 times (over 10 years). So build a simple spreadsheet and plug in the various scenarios. $7K purchase and $1K to close plus $1K for MF for 10 years. Then divide that by the total number of points you get over those 10 years. Then plug in your higher purchase, higher point options.

You'll find this in most cases - the MF is what matters. In most cases paying a few $K more on the purchase is worth it if you're getting more points and the same, or cheaper MF's. But you really need to look at your total out of pocket divided by your total points over a long period, like 10 or 20 years.

And you're almost right - the Vegas Strip location has the 2nd lowest MF's. The Vegas "Karen Avenue" (AKA Vegas Hilton Convention Center) has the lowest MF's. So don't buy anywhere else but one of those two locations (unless the home week/resort option is something you have to have - but that's a different conversation).

If you didn't know this about MF's it's important: the MF's for the same size unit are the same at that property. So a 2BR at the Vegas Strip location has the same MF for people with 5,000, 7,000, or 8,400 points (silver, gold, platinum, penthouse....). That's why the prices for a platinum week are higher on the purchase side of things because you're getting 7,000 points for the same MF as the poor guy with only 5,000 points. Over a long period of time you'll more than recover your purchase price if you get more points for the same MF.

I believe the MFs for the 2 br are lower at the Vegas Strip (boulevard) than at Karen Ave.

 

[JIMinNC]

When I look at buying HGVC I focus on two things - lowest MF per point and total cost over 10 years. You pay the closing and purchase price once, you pay the MF 10 times (over 10 years). So build a simple spreadsheet and plug in the various scenarios. $7K purchase and $1K to close plus $1K for MF for 10 years. Then divide that by the total number of points you get over those 10 years. Then plug in your higher purchase, higher point options.

You'll find this in most cases - the MF is what matters. In most cases paying a few $K more on the purchase is worth it if you're getting more points and the same, or cheaper MF's. But you really need to look at your total out of pocket divided by your total points over a long period, like 10 or 20 years.

And you're almost right - the Vegas Strip location has the 2nd lowest MF's. The Vegas "Karen Avenue" (AKA Vegas Hilton Convention Center) has the lowest MF's. So don't buy anywhere else but one of those two locations (unless the home week/resort option is something you have to have - but that's a different conversation).

If you didn't know this about MF's it's important: the MF's for the same size unit are the same at that property. So a 2BR at the Vegas Strip location has the same MF for people with 5,000, 7,000, or 8,400 points (silver, gold, platinum, penthouse....). That's why the prices for a platinum week are higher on the purchase side of things because you're getting 7,000 points for the same MF as the poor guy with only 5,000 points. Over a long period of time you'll more than recover your purchase price if you get more points for the same MF.

I've looked at this upfront cost plus ongoing MF analysis in studying HGVC for a possible future purchase of HGVC to add to our Marriott, and HGVC Sea World scores almost as low as the Vegas properties on 4800 or 7000 point Platinum points packages. HGVC Tuscany/I Drive is a little higher, but still only by about 10%. For us, if we ever buy into HGVC it will probably be at one of the Orlando properties instead of Vegas. Vegas has zero appeal to us, and while our kids are past prime Orlando age, there may be grandchildren someday. In my way of thinking, if the overall cost of ownership is about the same, a buyer should lean toward owning somewhere they might actually consider traveling to once in awhile, all things being equal.

So for the OP, the Vegas properties would seem to be a good point of entry (especially if they might want to travel there sometime), but don't discount Orlando either, especially if you might see yourself vacationing there at some point.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

In my way of thinking, if the overall cost of ownership is about the same, a buyer should lean toward owning somewhere they might actually consider traveling to once in awhile, all things being equal.

So for the OP, the Vegas properties would seem to be a good point of entry (especially if they might want to travel there sometime), but don't discount Orlando either, especially if you might see yourself vacationing there at some point.

I agree with that idea, I like to give some priority to owning where I travel frequently.. I don't think i would pay a huge premium for that, but if one resort is special for me, or at least a favorite and i go there often i would definitely consider that as part of my evaluation.

I did want to comment on the OP's statement about being a family of three, and a one bedroom being sufficient. That works great while you child is young, but may not be ideal as they grow older. My son started to complain about the sofabed a lot when we used to mostly stay in Embassy Suites as he entered his teen age years...

Another consideration is that at some resorts the best views or rooms are only available as a two bedroom. My wife and I sometimes book a two bedroom just to get the better ocean view, or avoid the parking lot view...

No single right answer, but things to consider.

 

[JSparling]

Another consideration is that at some resorts the best views or rooms are only available as a two bedroom. .

Great point. All 1BR's at Kings Land Phase 2 face the parking lot. Gotta get a 2BR there to have a nice view. (all rooms, regardless of size, have a nice view at Kings Land Phase 1).

 

[Blues]

For us, if we ever buy into HGVC it will probably be at one of the Orlando properties instead of Vegas. Vegas has zero appeal to us, and while our kids are past prime Orlando age, there may be grandchildren someday.

In general, this is very good thinking. In practice, Orlando is so oversold, so easy to get into, that it's really not necessary. You don't need the 9-12 month advantage to book there - you can easily get in at 9 months, or even closer. So in the case of Orlando, it's really not worth any premium at all.

-Bob

 

[JIMinNC]

In general, this is very good thinking. In practice, Orlando is so oversold, so easy to get into, that it's really not necessary. You don't need the 9-12 month advantage to book there - you can easily get in at 9 months, or even closer. So in the case of Orlando, it's really not worth any premium at all.

-Bob

I agree, but my point was there appears to be very little, if any, premium for Orlando vs. Vegas, so why not lean toward where you might travel? There's no real downside if there is little or no premium, and there could be an upside if you wanted to be sure of getting a higher demand holiday week or wanted to secure reservations more than nine months out for airfare or frequent flyer seat purposes. Again, not arguing you should pay a meaningful premium for Orlando for the home booking window, but if any premium is tiny or nonexistent, why not own somewhere you just might benefit from in some way in the future rather than somewhere you have no desire to ever go?

 

[alexadeparis]

Just a general comment that I always try to avoid maxing out the room occupancy. My family of 3 ALWAYS needs a 2 bedroom. If anyone else wants to come, (and they usually do) then it becomes a 3 bedroom. Hence the 9600 points I have.

 

[tompalm]

When you book online, points are points and it doesn't matter where you own if booking in the next nine months. The only reason to buy the resort where you vacation would be to take advantage of reserving a unit or room at a location that stays booked all year long, like in Waikiki. That way you can reserve a unit during Spring Break, summer, or any other holiday that is always booked up. So if traveling to Vegas to use your points, buy the best deal you can find.