Possible Merger: Royal Aloha Vacation Club (RAVC) with Vacation Internationale (VI)

[Ddee555]

Hello Tuggers,

Looks like there might be a potential merger between Royal Aloha Vacation Club (RAVC) with Vacation Internationale (VI). The RAVC Board of Directors sent a notice to all RAVC members before Thanksgiving urging us to vote for the merger. I'm not sure when the vote will take place, but it only needs 50% plus 1 majority for the merger to pass. So, I believe it will likely go through. I own a one bedroom, which would convert to 105 points in VI (two bedrooms convert to 130 points in VI). At no cost to RAVC members, those who convert will gain lifetime memberships in VI and a 13-month window reservation priority for the 3 RAVC Hawaii locations (Waikiki, Kona, and Maui). I'm thinking about taking the cash rebate from RAVC's liquid reserves and walking away. However, this is a really great opportunity for those who want a Hawaii advantage in booking the RAVC locations. I'm not sure if the Hawaii advantage is transferable, but if it is, I'm going to ask a friend if she would like the timeshare for her family. By the time the merger is finalized (Fall 2020), I will have two banked weeks with RAVC that will be honored by VI. So, I will get to test the VI reservation system before I make my final decision.

This next year should be interesting if this merger works out.

 

[SteelerGal]

Update?

 

[Ddee555]

I went to an owners meeting today about the merger for RAVC and VI. In the coming months, both RAVC and VI are holding owners meetings in 16 cities until the May annual meeting when all the merger votes will be counted. I was able to vote for the merger today which saves a stamp.

So, I found out many things today. Firstly, those who transfer over their Royal Aloha membership into VI will be a given a chance to add 25 permanent points to their memberships at no cost. So, for example, I have a one bedroom which would convert to 105 points in VI. I have the choice to 25 additional points, so that would be 130 points a year -- just have to pay the annual maintenance fee, that is all. Same logic for a RAVC two bedroom.

Secondly, I found out that the special 13-month advantage for the RAVC Hawaii units is not transferable or inheritable. So, it only will apply to owners of record at the time of the merger. So, if you have children or loved ones that you want to give the unit to in the future to have the advantage, you need to put them on the membership record before the merger. However, any fee to do so is being waived by RAVC, so it is simply a matter of paperwork.

Thirdly, I found that VI has a no penalty surrender policy for their timeshares. That is why you do not see many of them on the market. As long as you do not have a loan on the interval, you can just return the timeshare to VI and that's it, you just walk away with no penalties or fees.

The fourth thing that I found out is that new ownerships to VI are being sold by VI for about $16,000 (about 116 points?). So, if you have ever wanted to belong to VI, the best thing to do, is to buy a one bedroom from Royal Aloha (cut-off date is March for far less--sorry, I didn't write down how much it costs, but I know it is less than $2000), get the 105 points -- add the 25 permanent points if you want later on for free - and join VI through the merger for no additional costs. You'll have the 13-month RAVC Hawaii advantage and you'll also get the October rebate, which looks like it going to be equal to one years maintenance fee.

And the fifth thing is that all RAVC locations will be added to the VI inventory. No RAVC locations are going away.

There are other things that I learned, but these are things that you might all be interested in, if you are considering RAVC or VI.

 

[sjsharkie]

Thanks for your post.

I am writing to caution people from adding kids or others to the deed for a 13 month advantage. You will need to weigh this against them being burdened with ownership should you pass.

I think it is a good post to advise that the 13 month advantage would not pass to new owners. However you really need to weigh whether or not your kids will want this timeshare after you are gone. They can decline an inheritance but this will be theirs for keeps if they are on the deed.

Ryan

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Ddee555]

Just to clarify, I do not think that you put a person on a deed without that person's consent and a signature. So, I think the question that someone might get a timeshare that they do not want does not apply here. But, thank you, Ryan, for raising the issue.

Also, just for people to know, both RAVC and VI have surrender policies so people can walk away from their intervals with no penalties or hits to their credit or judgment against them. For RAVC, you just indicate that you need to relinquish the timeshare and pay a fee about the equivalent to one years maintenance and that's it. And as I mentioned for VI, you just tell VI that you are giving up the timeshare and stop paying the maintenance fee for that year. You are totally off the hook and can walk away.

Finally, I did find out something else that is good to know. If you ever decide that you want your timeshare again, you can come back to either RAVC or VI with a small fee. However, you have to do it within a certain number of years (like 2-3 years, etc.).

 

[Ddee555]

Royal Aloha Vacation Club Unit Breakdown

I am posting this info, because it might be helpful to others.

Whether the VI merger takes place or not, Royal Aloha intends to always keep the Hawaii units in the club -- meaning the condos will not be sold off to balance inventory with the aging demographics of members.

Here is the breakdown for the Hawaii inventory:

RAVC Waikiki - Aloha Towers (Ewa and Diamond Head buildings)

One Bedroom - 25 units
Two Bedrooms - 16 units
TOTAL: 41 units

RAVC Waikiki - SkyTower

One Bedroom - 10 units

RAVC Maui (Kauhale Makai - Village By the Sea)

One bedroom - 9 units
Two bedrooms - 4 units
TOTAL: 13 units

RAVC Kona (Keauhou Kona Surf & Racquet Club)

One bedroom - 6 units
Two bedrooms - 9 units
Three bedrooms - 2 units
TOTAL: 17 units

All the interiors of the Waikiki and Kona units have been renovated during the past 3 years. All the interiors of the Maui units are being renovated this year (2020), and there is construction taking place on the exteriors of the two buildings which should be completed this year (2020) as well. The construction does affect use of the condo lanais, but you can still use the swimming pool, barbecue grill area, etc. So, I would not stay at RAVC Maui until 2021 when everything is finished.

Also, I have been told that if the VI merger does not take place, then RAVC will continue to downsize its inventory, eventually, eliminating locations such as Spain, Chandler (Arizona), and Branson (Missouri), in order to balance usage with membership numbers. So, RAVC will keep the Hawaii locations, Lake Tahoe, and Otter Crest (Oregon), which are the most popular areas with members.

 

[Ddee555]

Just an update. I spoke with the VP of RAVC.

For those who are interested in purchasing a one bedroom interval, the cost is $699 (includes closing costs) plus maintenance fee ($758), and for a two bedroom interval, the cost is $1999 (includes closing costs) plus maintenance fee ($920). Both offers include a free bonus week. So, obviously, if you interested in a two bedroom with the 13-month RAVC Hawaii advantage with the VI merger, the cheapest way to do this, is to buy a RAVC one bedroom and take the free 25 permanent VI points which will equal a two bedroom (130 points) at most VI locations, including Hawaii.

All RAVC membership purchases have to be concluded by March 30, 2020 (no exceptions).

However, this membership offer is available in every state except California, because RAVC does not do business in CA. This is kind of my disappointing for my friend who lives in CA -- the only work-around is if she travels to Hawaii or another state to do the paperwork with a notary, or I buy the timeshare with her -- none of these options are appropriate for us. But for others, I think this is a really good deal.

Also, right now, the momentum is for the VI merger to go through. RAVC already has 1300 yes votes for the merger and 20 no votes. So, it is pretty clear that the membership is for this. I believe about 3500 yes votes are needed for the simple majority with the annual meeting take place in May. Overall, there are less than 7000 members in RAVC.

Finally, for those who might be questioning the 13-month RAVC Hawaii advantage being honored by VI, at the owners meeting that I went to, it was made clear that when the RAVC Hawaii locations are transferred over to the VI real estate trust, it will be part of the underlying deeds for the Hawaii condos. But this 13-month advantage will only be available for those who are recorded members of RAVC at the time of the merger (which is set to finalize in November). Again, it will not be transferable or inheritable.

I'm thinking that for the time being, this will work out well for those RAVC members who always want to go to Hawaii, because VI/RAVC are thinking that about 20% of the RAVC membership base will not be joining VI. So, out of 7000 members, that equals maybe only 5600 or less RAVC members and there are 4212 Hawaii weeks each year. So, over time, if you want to have Hawaii to vacation or to trade every year, this will work in favor for RAVC members in the VI system.

The only downside for me, is that I like the 2-3 year window to book a Hawaii location in the internal RAVC system, which go away with the VI merger. It made it easier for me to get Kona and Maui.

 

[chuck0799]

We own 6 weeks in RAVC, and have been owners 20+ years. We primarily use our weeks every year in Hawaii, primarily Kona (our first choice), and Oahu. When the proposed merger was announced, we checked out the other resorts VI owns on the Big Island, and also Maui. Their units in these locations are very sub-par compared to RAVC's. RAVC's Kona location has air conditioning through the units....one VI unit doesn't the other has one unit in one room, that if you choose to use you pay a daily surcharge.

We were called yesterday from a VI representative asking how were going to vote our proxy votes. We indicated that we were not pleased with how it's been communicated...and are tending to voting "no" on the merger. Within 5 minutes of ending that call, we were called by the President of RAVC...makes we think they may be concerned about getting the 51% percent.

RAVC members do your due diligence on VI --- once their members discover some of RAVC "gems"...we will be contending with more people rather than less for space.

 

[geist1223]

I can not speak for all VI Resorts. But Worldmark and VI share 2 in Hawaii. One is on Kaua'i and is managed by Worldmark/Wyndham. The other is on Mau'i and managed by VI. There have been a lot of complaints about the one managed by VI on Maui concerning how it is maintained or not maintained.

 

[bizaro86]

Interesting that they have such a strong group in favor. I know I would vote against this if I owned RAVC. Probably people wanting to get out and get paid their share of reserves instead of paying an exit fee are a big part of the voting.

I personally would vote against this if I owned. The MF will go up, as the MF on that many VI points exceeds the current RAVC MF.

I like the Royal Aloha strategy of allowing members out and selling the least desirable locations a lot better than the VI strategy of adding more members by merging clubs in, including failing clubs. I think RAVC's method is way more sustainable, and will end up high grading the club. Over time RAVC will end up with less members who only own their top locations (Hawaii, plus maybe oregon/tahoe). That would be an amazing club.

From a real estate value point of view, RAVC owns whole condos (so even the less desirable locations are worth $$) while VI owns timeshare units at some locations (eg Panorama) which dont have much or any value in a liquidation.

This very much seems like a downgrade to me for owners who plan to continue. I guess there is extra flexibility from the extra VI locations, but given the extra MF I'm not sure that's worth it.

 

[geist1223]

We were called yesterday from a VI representative asking how were going to vote our proxy votes. We indicated that we were not pleased with how it's been communicated...and are tending to voting "no" on the merger. Within 5 minutes of ending that call, we were called by the President of RAVC...makes we think they may be concerned about getting the 51% percent.

I wonder how much of a financial incentive there is for the Executives of RAVC for this merger to go through? Is this being disclosed?

 

[JohnPaul]

I’ll just add a couple of things from a VI owner (30 years) point of view. I also own in many other systems.

I think this year is the first time in 6 years the operational (non reserve) portion of our MF has gone up. Most years they did increase 10 cents a point for reserves. VI is very stable financially.

They have been spending a good amount of money updating owned units (some properties are owned weeks in non-VI managed properties). I haven’t been to Hawaii in years but have no complaints about quality of domestic US resorts of which I’ve stayed at most.

My only real interaction with RAVC has been talking to exchangers in Tahoe who were quite disappointed. The exteriors of the Tahoe units are certainly underwhelming but they may be nicer inside. (Only offering this in response to concerns noted about VI quality).

Note that VI does have a $20 reservation fee but no housekeeping fees regardless of length of stay.

Also, be aware that the 13 month reservation window in Hawaii for RAVC conversions is unlike anything VI has ever done before. The rest of us can book at 12 months. However, to me this seems like a reasonable concession.

Ultimately you will all have to decide. Just be sure you understand what will happen after a no vote if that is the result.

 

[$MEGA LOTTERY WINNER$]

• I HAVE BEEN A MEMBER OF RAVC FROM THE BEGINNING IN THE 70'S,
  
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  • · OUR MEMBERSHIP IS DECREASING DUE TO AGE AND COSTS. SO WHY NOT GIVE THE PRESENT MEMBERS CONTINUING TO KEEP THEIR MEMBERSHIP A BONUS. SELL OFF PROPERTIES NOT POPULAR LIKE BRANSON MISSOURI AND USE THOSE MONIES TO PAY FOR FUTURE EXPENSES AND DUES. WHY GIVE AWAY MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN ASSETS
  
  
  
  
  
• TO OTHERS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN INVOLVED WITH RAVC UNTIL TODAY~! I WOULD LIKE NOTHING BETTER THAN TO OPEN UP A TIME SHARE COMPANY--OFFER THE WORLD AT NO EXPENSE TO MYSELF AND IN EXCHANGE GET MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF PROPERTY...WHICH I CAN DO WITH AS I WANT...AS MY MEMBERS HAVE ""NO SAY"", THEY CAN ONLY USE WHAT "" I "" GIVE THEM TO USE~!
  
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  THE RAVC MEMBERS JOINED TO USE HAWAIIAN PROPERTIES, NOT BRANSON MISSOURI PROPERTIES. WE JOINED FOR THE WEATHER/CLIMATE AND THE SOCIALBILITY OF HAWAIIANS~! MEXICO HAD IT'S ADVANTAGES UNTIL THE CRIME AND OTHER ISSUES AFFECTED OUR RESORT. SURE PROPERTIES WERE BOUGHT IN OREGAN TO ACCOMMODATE THOSE THAT COULD NOT GO ANYWHERE ELSE. BUT THERE IS NOTHING THERE.
  
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  HAWAII IS WORTH THE $100 TO $200 A DAY EXPENSE TO BE THERE. BRANSON, OREGAN, AND?? ARE NOT WORTH THE $200.00 PER DAY EXPENSE.. HOW MANY MEMBERS USE THE SPAIN ACCOMMODATION PER YEAR?
  
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  OUR CLUB -- RAVC--HAS WEATHERED MANY FINANCIAL STORMS AND STAYED TOGETHER ALL THESE YEARS. SO LET US REWARD THE MEMBERS. IF IT IS TIME TO REDUCE AND CANCEL OUR CLUB, THEN LET THE REWARDS GO TO THE MEMBERS. SURE THE CLUB CANNOT SELL ALL THE PROPERTIES IN ONE DAY OR THE REAL ESTATE MARKET WOULD SUFFER AND OUR INVESTMENT WOULD SUFFER. SO SELL OFF ONE PROPERTY/APARTMENT OUTSIDE OF HAWAII TO COVER CURRENT OPERATION EXPENSES, SALARIES, DUES INCREASE AND ANY OTHER EXPENSES THAT KEEP COMING UP TO OPERATE OUR CLUB SUCCESSFULLY.
  
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  I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT THOSE RUNNING THE OPERATION OF OUR CLUB WANT OUR MEMBERSHIP TO CONTINUE TO GROW AND JOINING V.I. WOULD DO THAT. SURE V.I. WOULD GROW, SURE OUR DUES WOULD GROW, SURE V.I.'s ASSETS WOULD GROW AND WE WOULD BE GIVING AWAY MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN ASSETS FOR OUR OWN PERSONAL GROWTH~! WHAT ABOUT THAT? WHAT ABOUT WE TAKE CARE OF OURSELVES AND LET V.I. TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN MEMBERS.? DON'T YOU THINK ****AFTER 40 YEARS**** OF MEMBERSHIP AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS SPENT THAT YOU DESERVE MORE THAN FOUR EXTRA HOURS MEMBERSHIP AND AN INCREASE IN DUES?? VOTE **NO** TO THE MERGER. VOTE ""NO"" TO GIVING AWAY YOUR MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN ASSETS. VOTE ""NO"" TO PAYING MORE FOR LESS. VOTE ""NO"" FOR A HARDER TIME TO GET INTO THE HAWAIIAN PROPERTIES YOU SO MUCH ENJOY VISITING. VOTE ""NO"" VOTE""NO"" VOTE ""NO"" IN SUMMARY KEEP 1. OUR ASSETS, 2. KEEP OUR CLOSE CONNECTION WITH THE HAWAIIAN PROPERTIES WE ENJOY 3. LOOK AT THE NEAT POSSIBILITIES OF **LESS** DUES PAYABLE PER YEAR--MAYBE NO DUES AT ALL~!~!*** 4. SELL OFF THE PROPERTIES OUTSIDE OF HAWAII SLOWLY TO REAP THE MOST PROFIT FROM EACH SALE......................................AND PRAY FOR ALL THE COVID 19 VICTIMS AND THEIR FAMILIES DURING THESE SCAREY TIMES. I WISH YOU ALL TO BE SAFE DURING THESE SELF QUARANTINE TIMES AND HOPE TO MEET ALL OF YOU AGAIN IN HAWAII DURING BETTER TIMES, HEALTHIER TIMES, SAFER TIMES. ALOHA EVERYONE
  
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[MJB1]

We are RAVC owners of a 2BR, 2BA unit. We have stayed in the Waikiki and Maui locations, but primarily use our week to exchange through II. How will our exchange options change if we merge with VI which is a point based system. Our current practice is to book a Hawaii week with RAVC, and deposit it into II. We have had excellent results exchanging into Marriott, Sheraton, and other high end resorts. I'm concerned that this may no longer be the case with a points based system. I hope someone might be able to explain how the point system works, especially for II, RCI and DAE exchanges. I called II, and they said they have nothing to do with points, and they could not answer my questions. so I'm still pretty confused...

 

[JohnPaul]

With point based systems, an exchange costs so many points and you do not have control over what they deposit. I use VI for the VI resorts. However, it is my understanding that they give decent inventory to the exchange companies so that they get decent trades. That would be consistent with my experience (30 years) with VI.

However, I imagine it is likely that your trading would not be as good as trading your Hawaii week.

 

[MJB1]

Thank you for your response JohnPaul... I was afraid that might be the case!
I'm really hoping this merger does not go through and this won't be an issue, but in the meantime, I would love to hear from some VI owners who have had first hand experience exchanging into non VI resorts...

 

[mauitraveler]

Thank you for your response JohnPaul... I was afraid that might be the case!
I'm really hoping this merger does not go through and this won't be an issue, but in the meantime, I would love to hear from some VI owners who have had first hand experience exchanging into non VI resorts...

MJB1,
We been owners with VI ever since 1978 (!). Have been successful exchanging into Hyatts (Lake Tahoe), Marriotts (Hawaii), Westins (Hawaii), and Suites at Fisherman's Wharf (San Francisco). Some of these exchanges were during Spring Breaks and summer months. However, we mostly travel in the Fall or late Spring. CJ

 

[MJB1]

Hi MauiTraveler,
Great, glad to hear that... Very reassuring! Thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

[easyrider]

Thank you for your response JohnPaul... I was afraid that might be the case!
I'm really hoping this merger does not go through and this won't be an issue, but in the meantime, I would love to hear from some VI owners who have had first hand experience exchanging into non VI resorts...

VI also has an owner exchange where owners of other than VI can deposit their decent week. We used our VI points for two weeks at the Maui Schooner.

Bill

 

[MJB1]

Thanks Bill,
Good to know...

 

[JohnPaul]

Any updates on this? When is the RAVC vote?

 

[MJB1]

Any updates on this? When is the RAVC vote?

Hi JohnPaul,

The vote was last Saturday, May 9th, the merger vote passed. This is from an email that went out to the owners on Tuesday...


"The results are in!
70% of the membership weeks participated in the merger vote that culminated on Saturday May 9, 2020 at the Special Meeting of the Members of Royal Aloha Vacation Club - 95.93% of the votes cast were in favor of the merger.

The Plan of Merger requires approval by a majority (50% plus 1) of the membership. Based on the results, 67.17% of all outstanding memberships eligible to cast their vote, did so in favor of the merger. Therefore the motion to approve the Plan of Merger was passed."

- MJB

 

[carmena79]

Is Maui Schooner a VI resort?

 

[MrBill]

As an owner in RAVC since 1999 with 1 one bdrm unit and 13 two bdrm units I looked deeply into the merger and am thrilled it passed. I purchased all on the resale market for an average of $1500 each. The reason was to ensure a minimum of being able to book 8 to 12 weeks in Maui and Kona each winter and still abiding within the "Hawaii rule". This required calling immediately when reservations commenced for my desired dates which was a bit nail biting. Now with a number of RAVC members dropping out after cashing out and VI's 13 month rule for present RAVC members I think guaranteeing winters in Hawaii will be easier. In addition to trading in the RAVC weeks to VI points I, like many others, will have unused banked weeks to use or trade off. The return to members of RAVC's assets was icing on the cake. Another positive is not being tied into the Monday to Monday week. We now check in and stay more or less than 7 days to accommodate our personal schedule. Also VI has locations on Kauai which RAVC lacked.
I was surprised to see a majority of negative comments in this thread. I find the merger to be great in all aspects.

 

[JohnPaul]

Looks like info on RAVC properties will show on VI website mid October and VI booking begins November 2. Full week start Monday bookings for now as they work toward any day and length.