• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Portfolio Buys 28 Sunset Harbor Units

Kal

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,406
Reaction score
510
Points
499
Location
Redmond, WA
Portfolio Buys 28 Sunset Harbor Unit Weeks -Here's an example of how Portfolio works. They grab units by ROFR, Foreclosure, Bankruptcy, etc. then sell those units to themselves. See the Documents. Also note that the Notary is notarizing herself as a witness! Buy a resale timeshare and you have to have 2 witnesses AND the Notary.
 

Attachments

  • HPC Developer LLC to Chicago Title Timeshare Land Trust -  2022-03-28_Page_1.jpg
    HPC Developer LLC to Chicago Title Timeshare Land Trust - 2022-03-28_Page_1.jpg
    53.9 KB · Views: 64
  • HPC Developer LLC to Chicago Title Timeshare Land Trust -  2022-03-28_Page_2.jpg
    HPC Developer LLC to Chicago Title Timeshare Land Trust - 2022-03-28_Page_2.jpg
    62.5 KB · Views: 65
  • HPC Developer LLC to Chicago Title Timeshare Land Trust -  2022-03-28_Page_3.jpg
    HPC Developer LLC to Chicago Title Timeshare Land Trust - 2022-03-28_Page_3.jpg
    31.6 KB · Views: 62
  • HPC Developer LLC to Chicago Title Timeshare Land Trust -  2022-03-28_Page_4.jpg
    HPC Developer LLC to Chicago Title Timeshare Land Trust - 2022-03-28_Page_4.jpg
    43 KB · Views: 67

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,354
Reaction score
18,913
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA

SteveinHNL

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2021
Messages
675
Reaction score
429
Points
123
Portfolio Buys 28 Sunset Harbor Unit Weeks -Here's an example of how Portfolio works. They grab units by ROFR, Foreclosure, Bankruptcy, etc. then sell those units to themselves. See the Documents. Also note that the Notary is notarizing herself as a witness! Buy a resale timeshare and you have to have 2 witnesses AND the Notary.
I think the notary is acting as a witness but only notarizing the signature of the developer.
 

SteveinHNL

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2021
Messages
675
Reaction score
429
Points
123
Does this transfer of properties into the portfolio affect the voting on the ongoing vote to sever HSH's relationship with HRC?
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,354
Reaction score
18,913
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
Does this transfer of properties into the portfolio affect the voting on the ongoing vote to sever HSH's relationship with HRC?
Not sure if there was a cutoff date for voting but it also looks like it was recorded back in March.
 

SteveinHNL

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2021
Messages
675
Reaction score
429
Points
123
Kal do you know how many units/votes HRH controls?
 

ScoopKona

Guest
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
5,722
Reaction score
3,309
Points
598
Location
Monkey King Coffee - Captain Cook, Hawaii
I hope that between their shills trying to influence the vote and buying these weeks, they aren't able put their thumb on the scale with enough force to change the vote.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,354
Reaction score
18,913
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
Do we know what the vote threshold needed to pass is? Is it a simple majority or a supermajority once quorum is met?
 

bizaro86

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
3,663
Reaction score
2,488
Points
598
Location
Calgary, AB, Canada
I hope that between their shills trying to influence the vote and buying these weeks, they aren't able put their thumb on the scale with enough force to change the vote.

If they win this year they will probably keep it forever using rofr into the trust. Makes the comments about "vote no but negotiate to lower their cut" unlikely. If Hyatt keeps it this year and gets another few dozen into the trust every year what incentive would they have to negotiate?
 

ScoopKona

Guest
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
5,722
Reaction score
3,309
Points
598
Location
Monkey King Coffee - Captain Cook, Hawaii
If they win this year they will probably keep it forever using rofr into the trust. Makes the comments about "vote no but negotiate to lower their cut" unlikely. If Hyatt keeps it this year and gets another few dozen into the trust every year what incentive would they have to negotiate?

Zero incentive. That's why they're fighting THIS vote so hard. This is the one and only opportunity SH has.
 

AJCts411

TUG Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2017
Messages
944
Reaction score
824
Points
203
Resorts Owned
Hyatt Sunset x 2
I would encourage our BOD to investigate a legal challenge of exercising these ROFR's. That would take knowledge of the terms and conditions the developer was granted the rights. I don't see this as protecting value at Sunset. Florida seems more likely to lean toward protecting consumer rights when they are abused than other states.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,354
Reaction score
18,913
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
I would encourage our BOD to investigate a legal challenge of exercising these ROFR's. That would take knowledge of the terms and conditions the developer was granted the rights. I don't see this as protecting value at Sunset. Florida seems more likely to lean toward protecting consumer rights when they are abused than other states.
Here is what the condominum CCRs have to say about ROFR;
1654873294178.png
 

SteveinHNL

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2021
Messages
675
Reaction score
429
Points
123
Here is what the condominum CCRs have to say about ROFR;
View attachment 57616
The condominimum Declaration and CCRs are basically the “Constitution” for the condominium and the creation of the condo interests better known as TS deeds. Basically what this means is that the Developer would have a right to come in after the fact and void a TS deed/sale if the ROFR was not first offered to the Developer. I wouldn’t want to be in a situation where I was conveying or receiving defective title by failing to follow the ROFR process.
 

SteveinHNL

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2021
Messages
675
Reaction score
429
Points
123
The most interesting piece in that snippet from the CCRs is that “membership in the Hyatt Vacation Club, in accordance with the Hyatt Vacation Club Resort Agreement and the Rules and Regulations . . . shall be a requirement of any successor in title to an Owner, the same being a covenant running with the land and the membership being an appurtenance to each Condominium Parcel.” This sounds like it means that HHS owners will not be able to get out from under the HRC membership fee even if they terminate their relationship with HRC.
 

AJCts411

TUG Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2017
Messages
944
Reaction score
824
Points
203
Resorts Owned
Hyatt Sunset x 2
Here is what the condominum CCRs have to say about ROFR;
View attachment 57616
Thanks for that. The last paragraph "in accordance with the Hyatt Vacation club resort agreement"...does this indicate the ROFR ends when the club is voted out? I know this is a complex question as other sections in this agreements could condition/regulate this one. I wonder did this agreement address what happens in event of a "divorce from Hyatt" passes? Kind of a like partnership agreement where it is prudent, good business to know how to get out/terminate by either party.
 

SteveinHNL

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2021
Messages
675
Reaction score
429
Points
123
Thanks for that. The last paragraph "in accordance with the Hyatt Vacation club resort agreement"...does this indicate the ROFR ends when the club is voted out? I know this is a complex question as other sections in this agreements could condition/regulate this one. I wonder did this agreement address what happens in event of a "divorce from Hyatt" passes? Kind of a like partnership agreement where it is prudent, good business to know how to get out/terminate by either party.

That’s not how I read it. I read it more like “membership in the Hyatt Vacation Club [as described by] the Hyatt Vacation Club Resort Agreement and the Rules and Regulations” is part of the DNA you receive when you take title, since it is expressly “a covenant running with the land” and an appurtenant interest to the TS deed itself.

I have not been around long enough to know what happened with Hyatt and Aspen. Are they in litigation now?
 

Kal

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,406
Reaction score
510
Points
499
Location
Redmond, WA
My reading is the relationship to the "...HVC Resort Agreement...". If Hyatt/MVC is tossed out, the Resort Agreement goes with them. However, the relationship to the "Developer" would seem to stand. So that would say the original Developer holds the ROFR. In keeping with the concept of protecting land values, ROFR would protect owners from housing deadbeats. But as it is playing out here, ROFR is being used to control the voting outcome of all owners. Stack the deck to control the BOD and you have all the freedom to raise the maintenance fees sufficient to chase away owners who are not friends of the developer.

This is a new chapter from the old days of timesharing. In the old days you pour money down a black hole, pay increasing maintenance fees and have no resale value of your ownership. Then it transformed from "weeks" to "points" where you don't really own anything. Now it's how to force "weeks owners" to sell out.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,354
Reaction score
18,913
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
The truth is, ROFR isn't there to protect land values. It is ultimately there to help the developer. It may inadvertently protect land value, but that isn't the purpose. When it comes to timeshare, it is there for them to pickup cheap inventory to resell for high prices.
 

vacationtime1

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
5,159
Reaction score
2,750
Points
649
Location
San Francisco
Resorts Owned
WKORV-OF (Maui)
WKV x2 (Scottsdale)
Who is the "Developer" in the CC&R's? Note that it does not include the Developer's successors in interest.

Also, does the Developer still own "interests to sell in the Condominium"? That's the Developer, not the HOA, the Resort Manager, or the HPP trust.

Just asking; I don't have a dog in this fight, but I know how I would vote if I were an owner/user.
 

DAman

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2011
Messages
902
Reaction score
266
Points
273
Location
Bay Area, CA
“For so long as the developer has interests to sell….”

This is very interesting language.

Once the developer sells all the initial units is there no more ROFR?
 

Kal

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,406
Reaction score
510
Points
499
Location
Redmond, WA
If the developer takes a resale unit on ROFR or outright purchase, they would then have "interests to sell".
 

bizaro86

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
3,663
Reaction score
2,488
Points
598
Location
Calgary, AB, Canada
If the developer takes a resale unit on ROFR or outright purchase, they would then have "interests to sell".

Right. As long as the entity that is the developer has a unit to sell they are good. I do wonder if they have ever deeded all of their units to HPP at the same time though. HPP is not the developer and HPP interests are not an interest in SH. That would be a bad mistake to lose rofr on a technicality but they're a big company and I doubt the HPP inventory people are necessarily versed in the CCRs at each resort...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kal

Kal

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,406
Reaction score
510
Points
499
Location
Redmond, WA
As a side note, this whole drama causes me to review my Hyatt Ka'anapali ownership to hunt for parallel issues. I reviewed the deed and the "Hyatt Vacation Club - HKB Vacation Ownership Plan" (which is a 1" thick book, in fine print). Here's the ROFR language in the deed. It looks almost the same as for HSH.
 

Attachments

  • 7174 Buyer  ROFR.jpg
    7174 Buyer ROFR.jpg
    140.8 KB · Views: 17
Top