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Poll about PICs

Did you get your current VIP status with PICs or without?

  • Non-VIP without PICs

    Votes: 9 23.1%
  • VIP-SILVER without PICs

    Votes: 1 2.6%
  • VIP-GOLD without PICs

    Votes: 4 10.3%
  • VIP-PLATINUM without PICs

    Votes: 3 7.7%
  • VIP-PR without PICs

    Votes: 3 7.7%
  • NON-VIP with PICs

    Votes: 1 2.6%
  • VIP-SILVER with PICs

    Votes: 2 5.1%
  • VIP-GOLD with PICs

    Votes: 4 10.3%
  • VIP-PLATINUM with PICs

    Votes: 12 30.8%
  • VIP-PR with PICs

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    39

Jan M.

TUG Member
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Location
Tamarac, FL
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Presidential Reserve at Panama City Beach, Wyndham Grand Desert, Wyndham Waikiki Beach Walk, Wyndham National Harbor, Club Wyndham Access
Grandview Las Vegas and Discovery Beach Resort - Both in RCI Points
Last summer. meaning 2019? Was it John Bohm from Florida? He was very knowledgeable. He had actually bought all of his PIC weeks from a developer. A very rich person, I assumed. I even called him from Kona as I was completing my purchase. He guided me properly. He didn't even bother to collect the $1 I had bought it for. But I bought them in July 2018.

I do love the $699 MF per year. I hope it stays that way. I wish I had added my sons to the deed at that time. It would have been so easy. Now I have to find out how to do a quitclaim deed in Colorado to add them to the deed.
I thought you might find this interesting since you bought from John. John and Lise Bohm were the owners who the term megarenter was first used to describe from what I've been told and read. Back in 2012-2016? I had a couple of business transactions with them and once exchanged a couple of brief emails with Lise about an issue of concern to both of us. Several people I've had contact with who knew one or both of them or had more extensive business dealings and communications with them than I did all seem to think well of them. Before the Freeze of August 2016 I had heard that they were either on the verge or actually in the process of selling their house in I believe Naples, FL with the intention of living out of the timeshares full time. I knew they were "no longer Wyndham owners" but I had hoped that they were able to keep enough of their other timeshares to be able to still do that. Seeing you mention him and that you got your weeks you PIC'd from him in 2018 makes me wonder if they might have had to give up that dream. I've always hoped not.

About adding your sons to your PIC deeds. You might want to contact owner care and ask for it in writing if they tell you that you can do it and it won't cause you to lose your PICs. I remember reading in a thread a few years back that if you make any changes to the names on your deeds that you risk losing them as PIC's. I have no idea if this can or did actually happen but you may want to look into it before you do anything just to be on the safe side. I hope someone else who has had actual experience with this will post.
 

Eric B

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Resorts Owned
Massanutten, Wyndham, Vidanta Estates, Buganvilias Sky Suites, Colonies at Williamsburg, Captain Morgan's Retreat
I haven’t had experience with that, but would suggest that adding them to the TS deeds would eliminate their ability to reject inheritance of them when the time comes. That isn’t a decision I would make in a rush. It also might be worth looking into whether the PIC contracts are inheritable; the info I’ve seen is that they are non-transferable, but I’m not sure what the limitations really are.
 

buckor

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Last summer. meaning 2019? Was it John Bohm from Florida? He was very knowledgeable. He had actually bought all of his PIC weeks from a developer. A very rich person, I assumed. I even called him from Kona as I was completing my purchase. He guided me properly. He didn't even bother to collect the $1 I had bought it for. But I bought them in July 2018.

I do love the $699 MF per year. I hope it stays that way. I wish I had added my sons to the deed at that time. It would have been so easy. Now I have to find out how to do a quitclaim deed in Colorado to add them to the deed.
Yes, it was John. Great to work with...had a ton of inventory he said he had used for PIC purposes.

Anyway, yeah, it was Summer 2018 and then I did my PIC purchase shortly after.

I hate hearing that @Jan M...seemed like a really nice guy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J727AZ using Tapatalk
 

SNA27

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Location
Rancho Cucamonga CA
Resorts Owned
Grand Desert - Flagstaff - Waikiki-Beachwalk+2PICs - Bonnet-Creek - Smoky-Mountains - NO CWA/NO RESALE
Hate? The way I saw it, she removed all the dubious connotations associated with the term 'mega-renter' for me.
If John Bohm was the ORIGINAL mega-renter, he must have been doing something right to become 'mega' anything. A true capitalist playing by the rules available to him. He didn't set the rules. he must have excelled playing by the rules. They changed the rules on him and he must have decided to move on and do something else.
Ron Parise, in his underwear, playing by the rules should be admired. Not despised. Straightforward in his dealings. Never hid anything, unlike the sales weasels. True American. Just my way of looking at it. Ymmv.
 

dgalati

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Hate? The way I saw it, she removed all the dubious connotations associated with the term 'mega-renter' for me.
If John Bohm was the ORIGINAL mega-renter, he must have been doing something right to become 'mega' anything. A true capitalist playing by the rules available to him. He didn't set the rules. he must have excelled playing by the rules. They changed the rules on him and he must have decided to move on and do something else.
Ron Parise, in his underwear, playing by the rules should be admired. Not despised. Straightforward in his dealings. Never hid anything, unlike the sales weasels. True American. Just my way of looking at it. Ymmv.
I agree if one plays within the rules it should not be considered a scheme or unethical and has nothing to do with morals. On the other hand many that have cried the loudest about this as a abuse have justified the use of VIP benefits with resale points even though it is clearly stated in ownership directory as not a benefit. If Wyndham doesn't enforce their own rules could it be considered a loophole in the system that is being taken advantage of. The mega renters excelled at using their ownerships to the maximum $/1000. Many looked down on @Grammarhero on his use which I found very hypocritical while they were playing the resale points as a VIP benefit to maximize their $/1000
 

Braindead

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Hate? The way I saw it, she removed all the dubious connotations associated with the term 'mega-renter' for me.
If John Bohm was the ORIGINAL mega-renter, he must have been doing something right to become 'mega' anything. A true capitalist playing by the rules available to him. He didn't set the rules. he must have excelled playing by the rules. They changed the rules on him and he must have decided to move on and do something else.
Ron Parise, in his underwear, playing by the rules should be admired. Not despised. Straightforward in his dealings. Never hid anything, unlike the sales weasels. True American. Just my way of looking at it. Ymmv.
I agree if one plays within the rules it should not be considered a scheme or unethical and has nothing to do with morals. On the other hand many that have cried the loudest about this as a abuse have justified the use of VIP benefits with resale points even though it is clearly stated in ownership directory as not a benefit. If Wyndham doesn't enforce their own rules could it be considered a loophole in the system that is being taken advantage of. The mega renters excelled at using their ownerships to the maximum $/1000. Many looked down on @Grammarhero on his use which I found very hypocritical while they were playing the resale points as a VIP benefit to maximize their $/1000
FYI- the way resale points work in a VIP account hasn’t changed. The mega renters had 10s of millions of resale points in their VIP accounts.
I ask you both did they play by the rules on the way resale points work in a VIP account?

Mega renters used cancel-rebook-cancel-upgrade. Nothing in the directory that didn’t allow this.
Mega renters definitely stayed within the rules on cancel rebook.
But Wyndham has definitely taken steps to make this very difficult today. Cancel rebook is still within the rules.

Mega renters used the points pool to access points 2 years out making them available for current use. Nothing in the directory that didn’t allow this.
Mega renters definitely stayed within the rules on the points pool.
But ALL owners definitely lost the points pool.
Before Wyndham started buying the stripped contracts from the mega renters Ron P was asked how he was going to sustain adding maybe 10mil points a year & using the points pool to access the points 2 years out. Ron P had used 10s of millions of points that still had 2 years of MFs unpaid. Ron P answer was I figured on dying at some point.

Of the 3 items that the mega renters used to make big profits the only one that’s mentioned in the directory back then is resale points in a VIP account.
Yet that’s the only item that hasn’t changed. That should tell you loud & clear, currently Wyndham doesn’t see that as a problem worth addressing!
They might at some point.

We have a lot of resale points in our VIPP-PR account but I’ll guarantee all that I get discounts & or upgrades on less than 1mil points a year.
I personally could care less if they change how resale points work in a VIP account.
What would upset me to no end is to force me to have 2 membership numbers.
What about VIPS with resale points & make them have 2 memberships? That would be a pain in the a$$ if you ask me.
What about owners with a small developer purchase with a small resale contract & make them have 2 memberships? Now they may very well pay 2 minimum program fees!
 
Last edited:

Jan M.

TUG Member
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Location
Tamarac, FL
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Presidential Reserve at Panama City Beach, Wyndham Grand Desert, Wyndham Waikiki Beach Walk, Wyndham National Harbor, Club Wyndham Access
Grandview Las Vegas and Discovery Beach Resort - Both in RCI Points
Hate? The way I saw it, she removed all the dubious connotations associated with the term 'mega-renter' for me.
If John Bohm was the ORIGINAL mega-renter, he must have been doing something right to become 'mega' anything. A true capitalist playing by the rules available to him. He didn't set the rules. he must have excelled playing by the rules. They changed the rules on him and he must have decided to move on and do something else.
Ron Parise, in his underwear, playing by the rules should be admired. Not despised. Straightforward in his dealings. Never hid anything, unlike the sales weasels. True American. Just my way of looking at it. Ymmv.
I hope bucknor will clarify his remark because I think you mistook his meaning. I took it to mean that he hated hearing that the Bohm's may have had to give up their plan of living out of their timeshares full time. Many of us enjoy thinking about living out of the timeshares, living the dream. Some of us have amused ourselves by looking into which resorts we might stay at, researching the weather to see what parts of the year we would want to stay in certain areas and calculating how many points it would take to do it. As I said and bucknor supported the people who had dealings with the Bohms thought well of them. I believe it was Lise not John who was on the board of directors for Glacier Canyon at one time and one of them may well have been on boards at other resorts they owned at.

If a person was actively following the threads in the years prior to the advent of Voyager in April 2017 they would have seen the Bohms mentioned as megarenters and being The Megarenters. It wasn't a secret. Not everyone who became "no longer an owner" after the Freeze of August 2016 was involved in the point stripping and use of the credit pool to do it. In addition to what they owned which I gathered was a lot, the Bohms were also point managers too from what I know. I learned about point managers from talking to people at the owners meetings who were VIP owners in their mid 70's and up. For health or age reasons they weren't talking as many vacations as they had previously so not able to use all their points and their younger family members weren't yet in a position in their lives to vacation or travel more. For those people finding a good point manager you could trust was a godsend in that interim period between the generations. There are many of us who will find ourselves in that same situation and would hate seeing our families have to give up the accounts we have so expensively built. Obviously Wyndham also saw the need and a business opportunity hence they invested a lot of time and money developing and growing Extra Holidays. If you followed Ron P.'s story you know that he sold off millions of those stripped points to point managers. Others doing what he did likely also did that. Wyndham saw the opportunity to rid themselves of competition the point managers presented and took it. There was a lot of collateral damage, not just to the point managers but to the people like the ones I met who needed their services.
 
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HitchHiker71

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Location
Delaware
Resorts Owned
Outer Banks Beach Club I
Colonies at Williamsburg
WCA VIP Gold (718k EY)
National Harbor Resale (689k)
I agree if one plays within the rules it should not be considered a scheme or unethical and has nothing to do with morals. On the other hand many that have cried the loudest about this as a abuse have justified the use of VIP benefits with resale points even though it is clearly stated in ownership directory as not a benefit. If Wyndham doesn't enforce their own rules could it be considered a loophole in the system that is being taken advantage of. The mega renters excelled at using their ownerships to the maximum $/1000. Many looked down on @Grammarhero on his use which I found very hypocritical while they were playing the resale points as a VIP benefit to maximize their $/1000
It is not clearly stated in the current owners directory, as it appears you were using a four year old directory. Since the verbiage for the VIP program clearly states that the program is subject to change without notice, this verbiage was removed in the current directory (I have yet to validate if it was removed from the prior 2016-2017 directory but will do so soon). In the future we should be careful not to use dated data sources when discussing these topics, as doing so confuses other forum posters, myself among them. I decided to actually validate this assertion today, only to come to find out it was inaccurate. Therefore, your assertion that myself or anyone else is being hypocritical, is also not accurate, at least with respect to the resale/VIP issue.
 

paxsarah

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Athens, GA
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Wyndham Ocean Boulevard and Flagstaff
(I have yet to validate if it was removed from the prior 2016-2017 directory but will do so soon)
In unsurprising Wyndham fashion, there was no 2016-17 directory. There were a few directory supplements as new policies were implemented, the most substantial coming around the time of the May 2017 system update. None of them really addressed the basic policies underlying the VIP program; they simply outlined the new policies and processes for all owners that changed at certain times.
 

HitchHiker71

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Location
Delaware
Resorts Owned
Outer Banks Beach Club I
Colonies at Williamsburg
WCA VIP Gold (718k EY)
National Harbor Resale (689k)
In unsurprising Wyndham fashion, there was no 2016-17 directory. There were a few directory supplements as new policies were implemented, the most substantial coming around the time of the May 2017 system update. None of them really addressed the basic policies underlying the VIP program; they simply outlined the new policies and processes for all owners that changed at certain times.
Thanks for confirming, one less thing I have to chase down. :)
 

SNA27

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Rancho Cucamonga CA
Resorts Owned
Grand Desert - Flagstaff - Waikiki-Beachwalk+2PICs - Bonnet-Creek - Smoky-Mountains - NO CWA/NO RESALE
PICs must be a well-kept secret! Only 13 members with PICs?
 

SNA27

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Grand Desert - Flagstaff - Waikiki-Beachwalk+2PICs - Bonnet-Creek - Smoky-Mountains - NO CWA/NO RESALE
Check out Page 292 of the Directory

PIC Program
As a CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus Member enrolled in the Personal Interval Choice (PIC) program, you are able to leverage your non-
Wyndham timeshare interests to your advantage with CLUB WYNDHAM®. Take the route to more vacation time with PIC Plus,
or the fast track to VIP status with PIC Express
 

raygo123

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I agree if one plays within the rules it should not be considered a scheme or unethical and has nothing to do with morals. On the other hand many that have cried the loudest about this as a abuse have justified the use of VIP benefits with resale points even though it is clearly stated in ownership directory as not a benefit. If Wyndham doesn't enforce their own rules could it be considered a loophole in the system that is being taken advantage of. The mega renters excelled at using their ownerships to the maximum $/1000. Many looked down on @Grammarhero on his use which I found very hypocritical while they were playing the resale points as a VIP benefit to maximize their $/1000
You just don't understand the difference between VIP status and what you have as benefits and point related benefits. It is a points benefit when it comes to what you can book with those points. VIP benifits are benefits you receive for buying a million points for Platium etc. Using resale and points deposit forward points for the 50% discount has nothing to do with the type of point. It is a VIP BENEFIT. In the directory it says you can only book resale or deposit forward points during the ten months window. But a VIP GOLD OR PLATIUM can book resale or deposit forward points or even CWA points at eleven months at any Select resort with a RARP that are on the list. About 52 resorts. Why? It is a VIP benefit not a points benefit. Even though it say in the directory that deposit forward points are only good at ten months. So next time you hear a complaint about using resale VIP benefits you can correct the complaintant.

I have two PIC one bedroom through VIDA. It is a RTU resort in Mexico. I only pay maintenance fees on it if I use it.so my only ongoing cost is the yearly charge for PIC.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk
 

dgalati

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You just don't understand the difference between VIP status and what you have as benefits and point related benefits. It is a points benefit when it comes to what you can book with those points. VIP benifits are benefits you receive for buying a million points for Platium etc. Using resale and points deposit forward points for the 50% discount has nothing to do with the type of point. It is a VIP BENEFIT. In the directory it says you can only book resale or deposit forward points during the ten months window. But a VIP GOLD OR PLATIUM can book resale or deposit forward points or even CWA points at eleven months at any Select resort with a RARP that are on the list. About 52 resorts. Why? It is a VIP benefit not a points benefit. Even though it say in the directory that deposit forward points are only good at ten months. So next time you hear a complaint about using resale VIP benefits you can correct the complaintant.

I have two PIC one bedroom through VIDA. It is a RTU resort in Mexico. I only pay maintenance fees on it if I use it.so my only ongoing cost is the yearly charge for PIC.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk
Thanks for the clarification. You can add one more very important item about benefits. The benefits you recieve
can be changed by Wyndham at any time.
 

Jan M.

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Location
Tamarac, FL
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Presidential Reserve at Panama City Beach, Wyndham Grand Desert, Wyndham Waikiki Beach Walk, Wyndham National Harbor, Club Wyndham Access
Grandview Las Vegas and Discovery Beach Resort - Both in RCI Points
Thanks for the clarification. You can add one more very important item about benefits. The benefits you recieve
can be changed by Wyndham at any time.
And what in life doesn't change other than in the human existence experience that the sun will rise tomorrow and we all die?

“The Only Thing That Is Constant Is Change -”

― Heraclitus of Ephesus (Greek: Ἡράκλειτος ὁ Ἐφέσιος,c.535 – c.475 BCE)
 

dgalati

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Please update the poll results.
 

dgalati

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Check out Page 292 of the Directory

PIC Program
As a CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus Member enrolled in the Personal Interval Choice (PIC) program, you are able to leverage your non-
Wyndham timeshare interests to your advantage with CLUB WYNDHAM®. Take the route to more vacation time with PIC Plus,
or the fast track to VIP status with PIC Express
Now you are getting it. Leverage your ownership.
 

dgalati

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Anyone up to doing a poll on attending a presentation? What is the current $ amount that is being accepted or offered.
 
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