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Poll about PICs

Did you get your current VIP status with PICs or without?

  • Non-VIP without PICs

    Votes: 9 22.5%
  • VIP-SILVER without PICs

    Votes: 1 2.5%
  • VIP-GOLD without PICs

    Votes: 4 10.0%
  • VIP-PLATINUM without PICs

    Votes: 3 7.5%
  • VIP-PR without PICs

    Votes: 3 7.5%
  • NON-VIP with PICs

    Votes: 1 2.5%
  • VIP-SILVER with PICs

    Votes: 2 5.0%
  • VIP-GOLD with PICs

    Votes: 5 12.5%
  • VIP-PLATINUM with PICs

    Votes: 12 30.0%
  • VIP-PR with PICs

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    40

SNA27

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PICs seem to be a well-guarded secret within Wyndham. They never even mention it in their presentation.

Did you get your current VIP status with PICs or without?
 
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MoPops

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PIC points count towards VIP level. So, it's not 'resale' but should be treated on par with 'retail'. So, you should check 'VIP-SILVER - Retail only' if you don't have any resale.
Did you get your current VIP status with PICs or without?
I have minimal actual purchased Wyndham points. My VIP status is made up largely of the PIC points, which were resale.
 

SNA27

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Let us define the word 'resale' from Wyndham's perspective.
Resale points do not count towards VIP status.
PICs count towards VIP status. It does not matter whether you bought the TS weeks that were used for PICs from a non-Wyndham developer or on resale.
 

woj027

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i'm still new at all this Wyndham timeshare acronyms.
what is PIC? or what exactly is Personal Interval Choice? What is VIP? is it Very Important Person? I hope we all are ;)

The common acronyms link doesn't explain.

I know the Wyndham web site isn't very educational, but is there somewhere on the site that will answer this question for me?

I can see we are Platinum tier
with Presidential Reserve membership type.
with
  • Outrigger Resort Club® by Wyndham
  • Perks by CLUB WYNDHAM®
  • PlusPartners®
 

paxsarah

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Just one observation about one of the categories in the poll (though I don't think it's particularly material to whatever results you get). I don't think there's any motivation in the current VIP system that someone would be PR with PICs - not that they couldn't exist, but it wouldn't get them where they ended up. In order to get full PR benefits, you need a 1 million+ point PR contract purchased from Wyndham. You also then get platinum by virtue of the million retail points. So you could have a PIC above and beyond that first million, and I suppose if you were able to bring it in with your PR purchase and it was a low-MF timeshare then it could be a source of low-MF points (and maybe a hedge against the potential future disallowing of resale contracts to enjoy VIP discounts and upgrades, versus just buying a low-MF Canterbury or Bali Hai contract). Not knowing the relationship between PR and the future Founders level, maybe PIC plus PR would be a way to get to 1.4 million if necessary. (I think they're saying current PR will be grandfathered at Founders, but that doesn't necessarily mean that new PR owners after the new program rolls out will be.)

(I'm not taking into account resale purchases of PR contracts in my discussion above, because though I know we have some such owners on this forum they really are a rarity. And I get the impression that Wyndham has tightened the benefits available to resale and/or non-million-point PR owners with the most recent directory update, but since I'm not one I don't know the details.)
 

SNA27

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PIC is money for jam. No wonder it's kept a secret.
Wyndham website is not that well organized. Some of the useful stuff is reached by clicking on 'What's Happening' rather than on 'Owner 101'.

Here is a useful link:

1578416320829.png
 

Braindead

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(I think they're saying current PR will be grandfathered at Founders, but that doesn't necessarily mean that new PR owners after the new program rolls out will be.)
Correct, from what we seen on the question answer sheet that current PR owners will be grandfathered to Founders level. Of course that could change.
That would also seem to mean that the new PR level will also be 1,400,000 points in the initial PR contract purchased from Wyndham.
That doesn’t mean you have to buy 1,400,000 PR points at ounce. You can trade in a non PR developer contract towards your initial developer PR purchase.
As you stated PICs do not help you achieve PR they would only be for low MFs & low cost VIP treated points
 
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woj027

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We only have jelly here, my wife doesn't like the seeds in jam.

I'm sorry, but as I read it, it implies you bring another timeshare to Wyndham and getting a point value for them.
"enroll your eligible non-CLUB WYNDHAM Plus week(s) into PIC Plus, you will be assigned a point value determined by the PIC Plus Allocation Chart "
 

paxsarah

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Wyndham website is not that well organized. Some of the useful stuff is reached by clicking on 'What's Happening' rather than on 'Owner 101'.
You're not kidding. I wanted to look up the Wyndham hotel discount code to do some comparison shopping yesterday, and I almost couldn't find it. You might think you'd find it under "Benefits," but no! In case anyone has misplaced it, the only place I could find it was Owner 101 --> Knowledge Base --> My Additional Vacation Options.
 

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We only have jelly here, my wife doesn't like the seeds in jam.

I'm sorry, but as I read it, it implies you bring another timeshare to Wyndham and getting a point value for them.
"enroll your eligible non-CLUB WYNDHAM Plus week(s) into PIC Plus, you will be assigned a point value determined by the PIC Plus Allocation Chart "
That is exactly what happens. The actual PIC owners can tell you in more detail, but in conjunction with a retail points purchase from Wyndham (of course!), you may enroll a non-Wyndham timeshare week into the PIC plus program. The week must trade in RCI and not be a part of any other points program. That external week is assigned a Wyndham points value based on its size, and you may use those points to count towards obtaining a VIP level. If you choose to deposit your week in any given year, you will also receive that number of points to use within Wyndham, but you don't have to do that if you'd rather use the week yourself.
 

Jan M.

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We only have jelly here, my wife doesn't like the seeds in jam.

I'm sorry, but as I read it, it implies you bring another timeshare to Wyndham and getting a point value for them.
"enroll your eligible non-CLUB WYNDHAM Plus week(s) into PIC Plus, you will be assigned a point value determined by the PIC Plus Allocation Chart "
You have to make a new developer purchase to enroll a maximum of two PIC Plus weeks. The weeks must be at a resort that exchanges in RCI to be eligible for PIC weeks.

Sorry, paxsarah posted her reply answering in much more and better detail right before mine. Since I'm editing this I might as well have some fun.

Must be jelly cause jam don't shake like that!
 

SNA27

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We only have jelly here, my wife doesn't like the seeds in jam.

I'm sorry, but as I read it, it implies you bring another timeshare to Wyndham and getting a point value for them.
"enroll your eligible non-CLUB WYNDHAM Plus week(s) into PIC Plus, you will be assigned a point value determined by the PIC Plus Allocation Chart "
Money for jelly, then. :)
Yes. But the beauty of PICs is the points count towards VIP and you don't have to even deposit the week in RCI or convert it to Wyndham points. I don't even comprehend this extreme generosity on Wyndham's part. But, I am sure, they know the secret of their sauce. Their 10Q reports show make they make a big chunk of money from Exchanges and Rentals. I think the revenue from PIC weeks is their money for jelly. They get to rent out your weeks without having any responsibility for resort maintenance or upkeep. That's what I have gathered so far going through the 10Q.
 
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woj027

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thanks. I thought thats what i meant after reading it.

That is exactly what happens. The actual PIC owners can tell you in more detail, but in conjunction with a retail points purchase from Wyndham (of course!), you may enroll a non-Wyndham timeshare week into the PIC plus program. The week must trade in RCI and not be a part of any other points program. That external week is assigned a Wyndham points value based on its size, and you may use those points to count towards obtaining a VIP level. If you choose to deposit your week in any given year, you will also receive that number of points to use within Wyndham, but you don't have to do that if you'd rather use the week yourself.
 

SNA27

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You're not kidding. I wanted to look up the Wyndham hotel discount code to do some comparison shopping yesterday, and I almost couldn't find it. You might think you'd find it under "Benefits," but no! In case anyone has misplaced it, the only place I could find it was Owner 101 --> Knowledge Base --> My Additional Vacation Options.
You would think they would implement a search that would quickly get you what you're looking for. Every other site I use on a daily basis has that simple yet useful feature.

While we're griping about Wyndham Website, who spends so much money on software that doesn't give you a Dashboard as your landing page. I have that in almost every other site.
I don't need total jazz as I have on my MerriEdgege MarketPro or Schwab Streetsmart. But a simple Dashboard would do. I am trying to spec out a Dashboard and send it to the CEO.
 

Jan M.

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Money for jelly, then.
Yes. But the beauty of PICs is the points count towards VIP and you don't have to even deposit the week in RCI or convert it to Wyndham points. I don't even comprehend this extreme generosity on Wyndham's part. But, I am sure, they know the secret of the sauce. Their 10Q reports show make they make a big chunk of mt oney from Exchanges and Rentals. I think the revenue from PIC weeks is their money for jelly. They get to rent out your weeks without having any responsibility for resort maintenance or upkeep. That's what I have gathered so far going through the 10Q.
Wyndham owns RCI and the two have a long standing symbiotic relationship clear back to the Fairfield days. As an exchange company RCI needs inventory to make it viable. They do have competitors and II, Interval International, is the main one from what I know. Wyndham needs a good option for owners who have points left at the end of their use year and that is depositing them into RCI. Depositing into RCI even before the end of the use year also gives owners the option to go places Wyndham doesn't have resorts.

So yes one hand feeds the other but I agree with you that there is a financial benefit involved too with the PICs. For both RCI and Wyndham. I wouldn't be surprised if there is also more financial benefit than you mentioned.

Making a developer purchase and getting PICs is a big win for those owners. Gotta love that jelly.
 
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Eric B

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Money for jelly, then. :)
Yes. But the beauty of PICs is the points count towards VIP and you don't have to even deposit the week in RCI or convert it to Wyndham points. I don't even comprehend this extreme generosity on Wyndham's part. But, I am sure, they know the secret of their sauce. Their 10Q reports show make they make a big chunk of money from Exchanges and Rentals. I think the revenue from PIC weeks is their money for jelly. They get to rent out your weeks without having any responsibility for resort maintenance or upkeep. That's what I have gathered so far going through the 10Q.
Another piece of the PIC cash flow is the $0.64/kpts program fee they charge for having a PIC contract. They collect this whether or not an owner uses the TS in Club Wyndham. So if you have two 254,000 PIC contracts, you wind up paying 508*$0.64 for them, or about $312 per year.

IMHO, that $312 goes towards paying for the VIP benefits the PICs makes you eligible for (e.g., unlimited reservation transactions, additional guest certificates, unlimited housekeeping, discounts, upgrades, RCI upgrades). A lot of those benefits don't really have a cost to Wyndham that I would consider significant because they are dependent on availability (e.g., an upgraded suite is only possible if there is a vacancy within one or two months of check in at a resort you are staying at), but do have an opportunity cost for them as they won't be able to charge for the larger suite, etc. Having the VIPG benefits because of two PICs is worth it for me; while it will cost me $312 per year, given a 20-30 year planning horizon that winds up being ~$7,800 instead of buying another 508K from telesales for about ten times as much. It's a personal value judgement, of course. (I'm ignoring time value of money using the gross assumption that inflation and deflation counterbalance each other.)
 

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You would think they would implement a search that would quickly get you what you're looking for. Every other site I use on a daily basis has that simple yet useful feature.

While we're griping about Wyndham Website, who spends so much money on software that doesn't give you a Dashboard as your landing page. I have that in almost every other site.
I don't need total jazz as I have on my MerriEdgege MarketPro or Schwab Streetsmart. But a simple Dashboard would do. I am trying to spec out a Dashboard and send it to the CEO.
If Wyndham's website became simple and useful sales would lose the most useful tool they have to sell higher priced points points!! It is also why they don't talk about telesales during the DAZE & CONFUSE presentations aka--- Wyndham Owners Workshops.
 

dagger1

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PICs seem to be a well-guarded secret within Wyndham. They never even mention it in their presentation.

Did you get your current VIP status with PICs or without?
Every time we go to an “update”, which is seldom (our minimum is now $250, which we got in Branson in October), they always bring up PIC’s. We have just under 1.1M CWA, all resale purchases off eBay. They always want to discuss how to get VIP status through PIC’s. If we even considered this, which we never will, we would get our advice about how to do it here on TUG. But they probably don’t want VIP retail owners to know about it and keep it secret from them. It could be quite the shock to find out that VIPP can be had for less than $50K.
 

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SNA27

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Every time we go to an “update”, which is seldom (our minimum is now $250, which we got in Branson in October), they always bring up PIC’s. We have just under 1.1M CWA, all resale purchases off eBay. They always want to discuss how to get VIP status through PIC’s. If we even considered this, which we never will, we would get our advice about how to do it here on TUG. But they probably don’t want VIP retail owners to know about it and keep it secret from them. It could be quite the shock to find out that VIPP can be had for less than $50K.
I guess I was an easy mark. PIC is probably pulled out as a final gambit to win the endgame with tough sells.

$50,000/(1,000,000 - 508,000)points =$101.62/1000 points. Way lower than telesales prices quoted here. Maybe possible with piggybacks + telesales.
 

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PICs seem to be a well-guarded secret within Wyndham. They never even mention it in their presentation.

Did you get your current VIP status with PICs or without?
I PICd two units from Twin Rivers in Colorado, both 3 bedroom units. That's 508k towards the 700k I needed for VIPG.

Fyi, I "bought" (was given) the Twin Rivers units just for the PIC....

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HitchHiker71

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I guess I was an easy mark. PIC is probably pulled out as a final gambit to win the endgame with tough sells.

$50,000/(1,000,000 - 508,000)points =$101.62/1000 points. Way lower than telesales prices quoted here. Maybe possible with piggybacks + telesales.
Telesales cannot sell piggyback contracts. It is possible with piggybacks at the four centers that can sell them, or with “foreclosed” contracts that are available. I’m not sure if telesales can handle foreclosure contracts - I have an ask into my telesales rep as of last week about this option and have not yet heard back.


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SNA27

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I PICd two units from Twin Rivers in Colorado, both 3 bedroom units. That's 508k towards the 700k I needed for VIPG.

Fyi, I "bought" (was given) the Twin Rivers units just for the PIC....

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I have 2 PICs (2 x 254) NY5 week 9 and NY7 week 22 at Twin River too! I wonder if you bought them on eBay from the same gentleman from Florida who sold them to me in July 2018. :)
 

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I have 2 PICs (2 x 254) NY5 week 9 and NY7 week 22 at Twin River too! I wonder if you bought them on eBay from the same gentleman from Florida who sold them to me in July 2018. :)
I have an NY7 and a BY5...if I remember correctly. I got mine last summer, yes, from a guy online (I think it was through TUG, though). He had a lot of them and was just handing them out...even paid the special assessment that was due at the time.

These have been awesome PIC contracts!

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SNA27

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Last summer. meaning 2019? Was it John Bohm from Florida? He was very knowledgeable. He had actually bought all of his PIC weeks from a developer. A very rich person, I assumed. I even called him from Kona as I was completing my purchase. He guided me properly. He didn't even bother to collect the $1 I had bought it for. But I bought them in July 2018.

I do love the $699 MF per year. I hope it stays that way. I wish I had added my sons to the deed at that time. It would have been so easy. Now I have to find out how to do a quitclaim deed in Colorado to add them to the deed.
 
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