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Points Required for Status going up - Must be true Sales Rep said So

rthib

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Listened to my phone messages.
Call from Sales Rep letting me know that I still had time to buy some points to get to Premiere level with DC.

Exact quote:
"The prices are going up soon and at the end of March the points need will be going up to ... well we can't say yet."

So there you have it.

If a sales rep said it, it must be true.
 

SueDonJ

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It wouldn't surprise me. The status levels are defined in the docs as a percentage of the aggregate total of all DC Points. The top 20% are Premier with the top 5% being Premier Plus. They were set at 6,500 and 13,000 at the rollout but with plenty of notice that they could and would fluctuate.
 

FractionalTraveler

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No different than Airlines changing rules relating to elite tier mileage thresholds based upon updated frequent flier data.
 

m61376

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I thought though that if the point levels changed they changed for everybody, so that you might not always qualify for the Premiere status- in which case why would it matter if you bought enough now to qualify of not, unless they are intending to offer grandfathering of status.
 

BocaBoy

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I thought though that if the point levels changed they changed for everybody, so that you might not always qualify for the Premiere status- in which case why would it matter if you bought enough now to qualify of not, unless they are intending to offer grandfathering of status.
I think the sales rep was saying that the points required for elite status would be going up, so you should buy the points you will need for the new elite levels now while they are cheaper. I did not read it as saying that if you buy enough now to make premier at the current levels that you would be grandfathered when the points requirement goes up.
 
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rthib

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Going through the pitch before, you need to buy points now because once you have status you have that status forever.

Again, based on a sales rep trying to sell me something, so it must be true.
 

SueDonJ

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Going through the pitch before, you need to buy points now because once you have status you have that status forever.

Again, based on a sales rep trying to sell me something, so it must be true.

Now that would surprise me - I didn't think there would be grandfathering for status beyond the calendar year in which status levels are changed. Here's the language from pages 10-11 of the original Exchange Procedures doc (bolding mine):

VII. MISCELLANEOUS
A. Membership Recognition Levels. Members meeting the qualifications established by Exchange Company from time to time shall be eligible to become Premier Owners or Premier Plus Owners, as applicable, and shall be entitled to the benefits and privileges afforded to Premier Owners and Premier Plus Owners as determined by Exchange Company. In addition to other qualifications as may be established by Exchange Company from time to time, to become a Premier Owner or Premier Plus Owner a Member will be required to own Interests with an aggregated minimum number of Exchange Points assigned to such Interests as established by Exchange Company from time to time. The number of Exchange Points or other criteria required to render a Member eligible to become a Premier Owner or Premier Plus Owner may be revised by Exchange Company from time to time and Exchange Company reserves the right to eliminate or add any ownership recognition levels or benefits and privileges as Exchange Company may determine in its sole discretion. In the event the minimum number of Exchange Points required to maintain Premier Owner or Premier Plus Owner eligibility is raised above the number of Exchange Points allocated to a Member’s Interests at any given time, the Member will be entitled to enjoy the benefits and privileges afforded to Premier Owners or Premier Plus Owners, as applicable, until the end of the calendar year following that in which the Member no longer meets the respective Premier Owner or Premier Plus Owner eligibility requirements. If the Member purchases Interests with sufficient Exchange Points to reestablish Premier Owner or Premier Plus Owner eligibility prior to the end of such calendar year, the Member shall maintain eligibility to be a Premier Owner or Premier Plus Owner, as applicable. In the event that the minimum number of Exchange Points required to maintain Premier Owner or Premier Plus Owner eligibility is greater than the number of Exchange Points allocated to a Member’s Interests due to the transfer of any of Member’s Interests, Member’s eligibility to enjoy the benefits and privileges afforded to Premier Owners and Premier Plus Owner shall not be extended for any period and shall be terminated on the first day of the month following the applicable transfer of the Member’s Interests. Any Exchange Points assigned to an Interest that is owned by more than one Member shall be included in calculating the number of Exchange Points attributed to each Member owning such Interest when determining whether such Members are eligible to become Premier Owners or Premier Plus Owners. Premier Owners and Premier Plus Owners may be assessed additional fees or charges for certain benefits and privileges granted to Premier Owners and Premier Plus Owners, as applicable, and as determined by Exchange Company from time to time. Exchange company reserves the right to deny Premier or Premier Plus status to any Owner or group of Owners which Exchange Company determines in Exchange Company’s sole discretion has structured its ownership in a manner to achieve such status by circumventing the intent of only recognizing Owners or groups of Owners who are joined by customarily recognized affinities.
 

jazzeah

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If they start playing that game of moving the point limits up and up for each level they are going to lose alot of loyal Marriott customers. They talked us into spending alot of money to upgrade our points to "premier plus status" (we own 3 timeshares as weeks and 2 weeks worth of points).

So far we have seen no benefit to the premier plus status and the fees for points are not cheap.:(
 

Fastpc2020

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If they start playing that game of moving the point limits up and up for each level they are going to lose alot of loyal Marriott customers. They talked us into spending alot of money to upgrade our points to "premier plus status" (we own 3 timeshares as weeks and 2 weeks worth of points).

So far we have seen no benefit to the premier plus status and the fees for points are not cheap.:(

But how do they loose you? You could sell resale but then what? They' e already made their money so they really don't loose.
 

m61376

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But how do they loose you? You could sell resale but then what? They' e already made their money so they really don't loose.

Except if they lose enough goodwill....
 

dougp26364

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But how do they loose you? You could sell resale but then what? They' e already made their money so they really don't loose.

With us, they lost two things. The chance we'd ever buy direct from Marriott again and any future referals we might have given them.
 

pwrshift

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And the game goes on..and on..and on..and on..and on............
 

raybrun

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What is the minimum of points you can purchase?

I am right on the fringe. If I am forced to buy more, what is the minimal impact?
 

GregT

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So far we have seen no benefit to the premier plus status and the fees for points are not cheap.:(

Let's give it some more time -- I believe Premier Plus is incredibly valuable -- more so (IMO) than Marriott realized when they set it up. I believe the ability to make 1-6 day reservations 10-13 months out -- with little competition from other owners -- is very valuable. Premier is also valuable (first shot at 7-day reservations is very valuable too -- but Premier Plus' 1-6 days reservations at 13 months is incredible).

The greatest risk (IMO) to the Marriott structure is that they've already demonstrated that they are willing to change the rules to the detriment of the existing ownership, if it benefits Marriott. I have no confidence that they will keep what I consider very attractive features.

We will see what happens in the months/years ahead....

Best,

Greg
 
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FractionalTraveler

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I am right on the fringe. If I am forced to buy more, what is the minimal impact?

I think its 1500 @ $10.94 or 2500 @ $9.3 but you should confirm this.

Looking at the latest MVW financial results, it appears to me that are trying to prop up revenues by making the minimum points purchase (buy-in) artificially high. Gotta play with the numbers to keep the stock going in the right direction......
 

dougp26364

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Let's give it some more time -- I believe Premier Plus is incredibly valuable -- more so (IMO) than Marriott realized when they set it up. I believe the ability to make 1-6 day reservations 10-13 months out -- with little competition from other owners -- is very valuable. Premier is extremely valuable (first shot at 7-day reservations is very valuable too -- 1-6 days reservations at 13 months is incredible).

The greatest risk (IMO) to the Marriott structure is that they've already demonstrated that they are willing to change the rules to the detriment of the existing ownership, if it benefits Marriott. I have no confidence that they will keep what I consider very attractive features.

We will see what happens in the months/years ahead....

Best,

Greg

IMHO

Rule #1: Buy where you're happy to vacation or, buy the size unit, season and location that you want to be able to reserve on a regular basis.

Rule #2 Never buy into or increase you ownership for benefits that can change at the developers discreation or, are a moving target.
 

dougp26364

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I am right on the fringe. If I am forced to buy more, what is the minimal impact?

This structure is set up to keep premier members constantly needing to buy more points to maintain their premier status. Only a certain percentage can be premier. This is similar to bidding at an auction. Just how much can you afford to spend to keep premier status?

Forget about the premier or premier plus. Marriott is putting you on a hamster wheel hoping you don't notice. They'll bleed you bank account dry trying to maintain "status" if you let them.

Sure it's nice to have status.......but I'm not going to keep paying them thousands of dollars to leap frog others just to maintain it.
 

SueDonJ

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I guess I don't have a problem with the numbers for status levels changing. They're set up to be an ownership reward, and for some folks it's exactly the sort of thing that will entice them to buy. Nothing wrong with that, IMO - isn't Marriott supposed to encourage sales of their product? I don't get why folks wouldn't want Marriott to be successful because we'll all suffer in some way if Marriott's business doesn't succeed. :shrug:

My favorite perk of Prem Plus status is the discount on cash stays at the timeshares - 35%, or 45% if you use the Marriott VISA. But I wouldn't buy DC Points to keep the status just for that, because the cost savings of the few rentals we do that way wouldn't come anywhere near the buy-in and ongoing MF costs of purchased Points. The reservation windows advantage is nice but again not worth the cost.
 

gblotter

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A trusted Marriott insider has told me that this rumor is complete rubbish.

Yes, Marriott reserves the right to raise the points level required for Premier and Premier Plus.

Yes, it might happen at some future time.

But not now.

Purchasers of trust points are buying in relatively small amounts. They are adding to the number of "normal" owners. They are not creating a top-heavy situation where the percentage of Premier and Premier Plus owners needs to be adjusted downward (quite the opposite actually).

I suppose there might be some trust points sold to enrolled legacy owners who want to elevate themselves into Premier or Premier Plus status. However the benefits of Premier and Premier Plus don't seem significant enough to warrant an expensive incremental investment like that.

The ranks of Premier and Premier Plus mainly come from legacy owners who enroll. After the enrollment fee goes up this June, Marriott won't see many more legacy enrollments.

Because of these dynamics, I think the number of "normal" owners will continue to grow, while the number of Premier and Premier Plus owners will remain relatively flat by comparison.

The case for raising the required number of points for Premier and Premier Plus just doesn't exist. Rather than motivate the purchase of additional trust points, such a move would probably just piss-off and alienate existing owners (again).
 
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dapolrbear

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A trusted Marriott insider has told me that this rumor is complete rubbish.

Yes, Marriott reserves the right to raise the points level required for Premier and Premier Plus.

Yes, it might happen at some future time.

But not now.

Purchasers of trust points are buying in relatively small amounts. They are adding to the number of "normal" owners. They are not creating a top-heavy situation where the percentage of Premier and Premier Plus owners needs to be adjusted downward (quite the opposite actually).

I suppose there might be some trust points sold to enrolled legacy owners who want to elevate themselves into Premier or Premier Plus status. However the benefits of Premier and Premier Plus don't seem significant enough to warrant an expensive incremental investment like that.

The ranks of Premier and Premier Plus mainly come from legacy owners who enroll. After the enrollment fee goes up this June, Marriott won't see many more legacy enrollments.

Because of these dynamics, I think the number of "normal" owners will continue to grow, while the number of Premier and Premier Plus owners will remain relatively flat by comparison.

The case for raising the required number of points for Premier and Premier Plus just does exist. Rather than motivate the purchase of additional trust points, such a move would probably just piss-off and alienate existing owners (again).

So what would you guys do if you had 6037 legacy points annually, would you guys purchase 500 points at $5900 inc. closing costs and be at the bottom threshold of the premier membership, not knowing when they will raise the minimum and not offered any grandfathering in? Or would you just stay put as an enrolled member?
 

bogey21

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If they start playing that game of moving the point limits up and up for each level they are going to lose alot of loyal Marriott customers.

Marriott lost me and my 4 Weeks years ago when they changed their rental and resale programs even though they were a big part of their sales pitch when I bought. I just decided I couldn't trust them and sold my Weeks. Why any body trusts them to do the right thing for their owners is beyond me.

Geoge
 

sparty

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So what would you guys do if you had 6037 legacy points annually, would you guys purchase 500 points at $5900 inc. closing costs and be at the bottom threshold of the premier membership, not knowing when they will raise the minimum and not offered any grandfathering in? Or would you just stay put as an enrolled member?

I wouldn't. Do you really need to book 13 mos in advance for a 7 night min stay at a desired resort? Stay put.
 

dapolrbear

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I wouldn't. Do you really need to book 13 mos in advance for a 7 night min stay at a desired resort? Stay put.

Ya that's why I canceled the purchase the next day. They hooked me with the RC club access, I would mainly use it in San Francisco if available. So as I understand the RC club is not available to lowly enrolled members?
 

FractionalTraveler

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Ya that's why I canceled the purchase the next day. They hooked me with the RC club access, I would mainly use it in San Francisco if available. So as I understand the RC club is not available to lowly enrolled members?

No problem, Just rent the RC properties from owners and vacation clubs on the internet.

http://www.travelenvogue.com/
 

Superchief

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The ranks of Premier and Premier Plus mainly come from legacy owners who enroll. After the enrollment fee goes up this June, Marriott won't see many more legacy enrollments.

Because of these dynamics, I think the number of "normal" owners will continue to grow, while the number of Premier and Premier Plus owners will remain relatively flat by comparison.

(again).

I agree, and I believe that a majority of Premier qualifying legacy owners with multiple weeks ownership enrolled early in the program because it most benefits this type of owner. I expect many of the people who have delayed their decisions and are enrolling now have fewer weeks, and therefore will not be close to qualifying for Premier. This will actually dilute the total ownership pool, so that current Premier Plus owners will actually represent a lower percentage of total owners. I doubt that many new trust point purchasers can afford enough points to qualify, and smart legacy owners (I learned the hard way) recognize the poor value of buying trust points.

On another note, I noticed that my Premier Plus status is finally noted in my Vacationclub account. Previously, I couldn't find my status indicated anywhere in my account.
 
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