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Points Deposit Feature Question

ilenekm

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I am VIP Platinum so I know that I can still use the Points Deposit Feature to move my points forward to next year. In the old system, I know that they distinguished regular use year points from Credit Pool points and you couldn't re-pool points that were already pooled.

Now it seems like all of the points are in one bucket. So if I use the Points Deposit Feature now to move the points to 2020, am I precluded from moving them to 2021 if I don't use them all?
 

tschwa2

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Someone asked this earlier today. You can never move more than your annual allotment forward. So if you get a million points a year and move 700,000 forward, next year you would only be able to move 1 million points. Also if you use your arp for a number of reservations that may restrict how many points and further reduce how many you can move forward next year. They do still actually track when you use ARP.
 

SNA27

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Ha! Now I know what PDF means! I have wondered about this issue too. Perhaps, they go by FIFO (First in, First out)!

If you move X from 2109 to 2020, X will be deemed to be consumed before 2020 points.
As long as you don't move more than 100% of your 2020 points to 2021, you are always moving current year points to next year.
If you have more than 100% of your annual points left over at the end of 2020, then you run into moving Last year's PDF points into next year.

I don't think Wyndham has to track the points separately. Simple math will do. Even if you add new contracts during 2020, the calculation is not that complex!
 

SNA27

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Someone asked this earlier today. You can never move more than your annual allotment forward. So if you get a million points a year and move 700,000 forward, next year you would only be able to move 1 million points. Also if you use your arp for a number of reservations that may restrict how many points and further reduce how many you can move forward next year. They do still actually track when you use ARP.

Doesn't ARP necessarily use future year's points? That is, if I make a reservation for December 2020, it will use 2020 points. Why does that bear on PDF from 2019 to 2020?
 

SNA27

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I get it! So it's not a simple FIFO, but ARP first then FIFO!! Ok, that's deep! ;-) But, easily programmed!
 

ilenekm

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Someone asked this earlier today. You can never move more than your annual allotment forward. So if you get a million points a year and move 700,000 forward, next year you would only be able to move 1 million points. Also if you use your arp for a number of reservations that may restrict how many points and further reduce how many you can move forward next year. They do still actually track when you use ARP.
Great. I have already used many of my 2020 points and wound up with a ton of unused points this year.
I also still have a quarter million old credit pool points that expire in May. Will I be able to push those ahead or will those have to be used?

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SNA27

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How does that happen? Don't 2019 points get used up first before you can borrow from 2020? Or do you mean you have a lot 2020 reservations using 2020 points but you have not used 2019 points?
 

Eric B

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Great. I have already used many of my 2020 points and wound up with a ton of unused points this year.
I also still have a quarter million old credit pool points that expire in May. Will I be able to push those ahead or will those have to be used?

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I believe you'll have to use them rather than be able to PDF them because they're in a separate pool. Same thing keeps a new developer point purchaser from PDFing bonus contract points.

I get it! So it's not a simple FIFO, but ARP first then FIFO!! Ok, that's deep! ;-) But, easily programmed!

@SNA27, I don't believe they have the system set up with that much sophistication. The user interface I am presented with has a big for the current year, a bin for a bonus contract that covers a two year period, a bin for the next future year after the current one and another bin for the year after that that only shows up because I already put points in it through PDF. I can move points up to my contract limits from the current use year to the next future use year or one year after that. When I PIC a week, those points are added to either the current use year or the next future use year at my discretion. The system doesn't seem to distinguish between the source of the points you want to PDF, but only applies a limit to points being moved out equal to your contract point limit, thus in two years I will have 2X points in that use year (assuming I don't PIC) and would be able to PDF 1X points to either the 2023 or 2024 use year. If I PIC a week in that year, I will have 2X + 254K points in the 2022 use year, but still only be able to PDF 1X points.
 

SNA27

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I had to read that several times and what I gleaned from it is that PIC points are not eligible for PDF. Right?

Applying it to my account, my total points per year is 1,425k. But excluding 508k from PIC, my PDF limit is 917k. Easy enough to compute the limit. Thanks.
 

ilenekm

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How does that happen? Don't 2019 points get used up first before you can borrow from 2020? Or do you mean you have a lot 2020 reservations using 2020 points but you have not used 2019 points?
Yes. We did other things this past year We took a cruise, two trips to Disney with our DVC points and points that I had in RCI from a couple years ago. So not much Wyndham in 2019

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Eric B

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I had to read that several times and what I gleaned from it is that PIC points are not eligible for PDF. Right?

Applying it to my account, my total points per year is 1,425k. But excluding 508k from PIC, my PDF limit is 917k. Easy enough to compute the limit. Thanks.

That is how it is discussed in the directory, but the system doesn’t seem to distinguish between the point sources for that purpose. This year I used up most of my 2020 points for reservations, then Wyndham hosed up my choice of which year to put those points in 2020. I was still able to PDF those points to 2022 despite most being from a PIC once my 2020 use year started in October. I suppose it might have been possible to require me to cancel and rebook the reservations with PIC points instead of contract points, assuming they were still available or came back in time, or asked them to “switch” the points, but the system isn’t set up that way and I didn’t need to do either.

That isn’t to say they can’t change the system, but it would complicate it and have cost, so I think it’s unlikely to happen because I can’t come up with a commensurate benefit.
 

SNA27

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Wrt Bonus points not being eligible for PDF:

The reservation system in 2018 was using my 2018 points instead of my 2017-18 points. I had no choice to specify which use-year points to use. But, strangely, when my wife made a Club Pass reservation paying $99, the CSR was able to use the 2017-2018 bonus points. I called Wyndham and Owner Care made a goodwill adjustment moving points from Bonus year to Current Year.

upload_2019-12-14_17-50-26.png



But I still haven't figured out these transactions from July 2018. Why would a VIPP PDF in July? And that too from a Bonus Contract to the Current year? Sorry, I need an emoji here! :wall:

upload_2019-12-14_17-56-58.png
 

HitchHiker71

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That is how it is discussed in the directory, but the system doesn’t seem to distinguish between the point sources for that purpose. This year I used up most of my 2020 points for reservations, then Wyndham hosed up my choice of which year to put those points in 2020. I was still able to PDF those points to 2022 despite most being from a PIC once my 2020 use year started in October. I suppose it might have been possible to require me to cancel and rebook the reservations with PIC points instead of contract points, assuming they were still available or came back in time, or asked them to “switch” the points, but the system isn’t set up that way and I didn’t need to do either.

That isn’t to say they can’t change the system, but it would complicate it and have cost, so I think it’s unlikely to happen because I can’t come up with a commensurate benefit.

IME this is correct. You’re eligible to move up to the amount of annually points, not including PIC contracts. I have 210k CWA points and 508k PIC points and I’m eligible to move up to 210k points via PDF each year. I also agree that I do not believe the current system tracks ARP usage specific to PDF and will not limit your ability to move points via PDF just because you use ARP. It simply limits your PDF usage to your annual allotment of points (again not including PIC). That said, I don’t really use ARP much, so I haven’t tested this scenario personally.


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HitchHiker71

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Doesn't ARP necessarily use future year's points? That is, if I make a reservation for December 2020, it will use 2020 points. Why does that bear on PDF from 2019 to 2020?

It’s a bit unusual I will grant you that. If you were to make a reservation on day one of your current use year between 10 to just under 12 months in advance, then you would still be using ARP yes?


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Sandi Bo

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I points deposited my remaining 2019 points so that my expiring (early 2020) credit pool points would get used first. I could have tied them up (booking and cancelling) versus depositing (and saved $39), but splurged on the $39 to minimize my keyboard time. 2020 credit pools have been drained and anything I book now borrows from next years points. No problems here.

I've been happy with how the points depositing works. Also happy to finally be done with credit pooled points. The points depositing seems to simplify things, especially being VIP Platinum and having to the end of the year, feels like a no brainer. I rarely ARP so can't speak to how that might be affected.

Did this get answered? No -- you cannot points deposit those credit pooled points. I was seeing my 2019 points (that I could points deposit if needed) getting used before some credit pool points expiring in January 2020 and May 2020. Point depositing the 2019 points took care of that problem.
 

SNA27

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It’s a bit unusual I will grant you that. If you were to make a reservation on day one of your current use year between 10 to just under 12 months in advance, then you would still be using ARP yes?


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Good point! You will be using the current year points. So, it may not be ARP per se but the use year from which the points are subtracted.
This is like trying to figure out a black box by observing inputs and outputs. Or trying to figure out what a program does without the benefit of documentation or source code!:(
 

SNA27

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The Points Deposit Feature allows you to deposit all, or a portion, of your current Use Year’s Points into a future Use Year. You may deposit your points into your next Use Year or two Use Years from the deposit date. Once deposited these points may only be used to book Standard and Express reservations at eligible CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus locations.

Important Information

  • You may deposit up to the amount of points owned into a future use year excluding points associated with Bonus and PIC contracts.
  • Once points have been deposited, they will expire at the end of the Use Year selected and are not eligible to be deposited again.
  • Deposited points may only be used to confirm Standard and Express reservations at eligible CLUB WYNDHAM Plus resort locations.

They have to track the PDF points separately to be able to comply with the above stipulations!
 

Eric B

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....

They have to track the PDF points separately to be able to comply with the above stipulations!

Actually, you have it backwards. The limitation is on the owners, not on Wyndham, so we would have to track the points separately in order to comply with the limitations. They would have to track the points separately in order to enforce the limitations and compel owners to comply with them, but have chosen a simpler and presumably more cost effective way to accomplish that by merely limiting the number of points you can take out of a use year using PDF to the amounts of points owned excluding bonus and PIC contracts (the first limitation). The second limitation they don't actually seem to police because it is somewhat of a corollary to the first limitation, with some hand waving allowed to justify the ability to move leftover points from a PDF or PIC that is in the same bin by rationalizing that you could swap out the points. (N.B., Wyndham is known to read postings here and get ideas for things they can tighten up the rules/implementation on - I don't think it's all that big a deal and they should probably just eliminate the second one as not accomplishing much in the way of limitation anyway, but it would be best if we all stopped harping on how they could "improve" things in the software system and make life harder for us, if you get what I mean. In simpler terms, please stop posting suggestions for how they can screw me, and you, if it is in their best interest and inexpensive because there is a possibility they would do so.)
 

CO skier

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I also still have a quarter million old credit pool points that expire in May. Will I be able to push those ahead or will those have to be used?
You could deposit a quarter million (or more) 2019 points to 2021 instead of depositing to 2020. That would be the mathematical equivalent of pushing the expiring quarter million 2020 points to 2021.
 

Sandi Bo

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Great. I have already used many of my 2020 points and wound up with a ton of unused points this year.
I also still have a quarter million old credit pool points that expire in May. Will I be able to push those ahead or will those have to be used?
Assuming you are VIP Platinum... You can point deposit your remaining 2019 points. I'm pretty sure I'd be doing so at this point (unless you might cancel reservations you are holding for this year that will credit more 2019 points).

You need to book a quarter million points for reservations that checkin before your May 2020 date and be sure you use the May 2020 expiring points (by point depositing any remaining 2019 points or tying them up). You cannot push those credit pool points ahead. The only way reservations booked for this year will use the May 2020 points is if you get the 2019 ones out of the way.


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
You could deposit a quarter million (or more) 2019 points to 2021 instead of depositing to 2020. That would be the mathematical equivalent of pushing the expiring quarter million 2020 points to 2021.
I'm not following this. I don't think it matters what year they deposit the 2019 points to. The goal is get all of them out of the way so that the credit pool expiring points get used (that needed to be done sooner, before it became a fire drill). It's also December 15th, I sure hope OP is VIPP and I would need a compelling reason not be point depositing by now anyways.
 

CO skier

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I'm not following this. I don't think it matters what year they deposit the 2019 points to. The goal is get all of them out of the way so that the credit pool expiring points get used (that needed to be done sooner, before it became a fire drill).
As I read it, ilenekm would like to push a quarter million 2020 points deposited to the "old credit pool" into a future Use Year. This cannot be done. If a quarter million 2019 points are deposited to the 2021 Use Year, which can be done, it is functionally the same as pushing the expiring 2020 points usage forward one year. The 2020 quarter million expiring credit pool points will still need to be put into reservations before expiration, but depositing a quarter million 2019 points pushes that amount of usage into 2021 instead of having to use it in 2020.

If all the remaining 2019 points are deposited to 2020, then all those points plus the quarter million "old credit pool" will have to be spent in 2020. If a quarter million (or more) 2019 points are deposited to 2021, that is a quarter million (or more) points that will not "get in the way" in 2020, and the usage is spread over two Use Years instead of having to use all the extra 2019 points plus the expiring credit pool points in 2020.
 

capital city

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I think we established a while back that pdf has nothing to do with arp. If you push forward 500,000 next year and you use next years points for arp you can still push your 500,000 with pdf. Who knows if it will change but that was my argument then that the pdf is better then the old credit pool. Once you get in a habit of pushing instead of pulling I think it's a better system and safer for Wyndham and resale buyers. I'd rather pay in advance for a vacation then to pay for a vacation I had 2 years ago.
 

dgalati

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Actually, you have it backwards. The limitation is on the owners, not on Wyndham, so we would have to track the points separately in order to comply with the limitations. They would have to track the points separately in order to enforce the limitations and compel owners to comply with them, but have chosen a simpler and presumably more cost effective way to accomplish that by merely limiting the number of points you can take out of a use year using PDF to the amounts of points owned excluding bonus and PIC contracts (the first limitation). The second limitation they don't actually seem to police because it is somewhat of a corollary to the first limitation, with some hand waving allowed to justify the ability to move leftover points from a PDF or PIC that is in the same bin by rationalizing that you could swap out the points. (N.B., Wyndham is known to read postings here and get ideas for things they can tighten up the rules/implementation on - I don't think it's all that big a deal and they should probably just eliminate the second one as not accomplishing much in the way of limitation anyway, but it would be best if we all stopped harping on how they could "improve" things in the software system and make life harder for us, if you get what I mean. In simpler terms, please stop posting suggestions for how they can screw me, and you, if it is in their best interest and inexpensive because there is a possibility they would do so.)
Would I be correct in saying this is also comparable to the poop maps SNA was talking about?
 

raygo123

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Assuming you are VIP Platinum... You can point deposit your remaining 2019 points. I'm pretty sure I'd be doing so at this point (unless you might cancel reservations you are holding for this year that will credit more 2019 points).

You need to book a quarter million points for reservations that checkin before your May 2020 date and be sure you use the May 2020 expiring points (by point depositing any remaining 2019 points or tying them up). You cannot push those credit pool points ahead. The only way reservations booked for this year will use the May 2020 points is if you get the 2019 ones out of the way.


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I'm not following this. I don't think it matters what year they deposit the 2019 points to. The goal is get all of them out of the way so that the credit pool expiring points get used (that needed to be done sooner, before it became a fire drill). It's also December 15th, I sure hope OP is VIPP and I would need a compelling reason not be point depositing by now anyways.[/QUOTE]You don't have to move them out of the way in if you make reservations in the ten month window if you book under the ten month window reservations equivalent to the number of pdf points or credit pool points. The one big bucket theory is wrong. Just like the old system points are classified CWA, SELECT, PDF, PIC and use year. At ten months it doesn't matter what kind of points they are? Not true. What is important at ten months is points deposited forward points are used first. So points are not points in the case of the points deposit feature.

Last the posting with all the red letters is wrong for gold or platium owners. At 11 months a RARP can be used inwhich case use year, points deposited forward and resale points will be used. In that case your points deposit forward points will be used first. RARP being a VIP benefit not a points related benefit.

Long story short, if you make enough ten month reservations to cover the number of use year points, UYP, lol, you will always have all your use year points not used to deposit forward.

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