• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 29 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered!
  • TUG started 29 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Check out our happy birthday post here: Happy Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Come check it out for a chance to win a Free TUG membership (or renewal) just for helping out!

    Read more here
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $19,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $19 Million dollars
  • Our 2022 Timeshare Survey is now complete and the full results as well as our expert and witty analysis of each question is available here: Here We hope you enjoy reading the results as much as we did!
  • Follow the TUG Member Banner as it travels the world on vacation with Timeshare owners! Also sign up to get the banner sent to you so you can submit a photo of your vacation with the banner to share with TUG! Banner Thread
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free! 50,000+ subscribers! Latest resort reviews and the most important topics discussed by owners during the week!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    Read more Here
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Please rate Starwood's management (anonymous poll)

How would you rate Starwood's timeshare management?

  • Starwood has the best management team in the business, & they have my complete confidence.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Starwood is doing the best they can in a bad economy, & is committed to the best interest of owners.

    Votes: 17 11.3%
  • Starwood's management team is average - no better or worse than anyone else.

    Votes: 44 29.3%
  • Starwood has not treated timeshare owners ethically, and they've lost my trust.

    Votes: 67 44.7%
  • I wish we could fire Starwood management TODAY!

    Votes: 22 14.7%

  • Total voters
    150

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
56,580
Reaction score
7,624
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, SDO, Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra.
Since we've been debating the "management" issue lately, I thought it would be interesting to see what Tuggers really think...

BTW - this poll is anonymous...
 
Last edited:

Westin5Star

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
992
Reaction score
0
Points
376
Location
Florida
I do not understand someone that votes "Starwood has not treated timeshare owners ethically, and they've lost my trust" without voting that they wish Starwood would be fired. I can forgive someone that has lost my trust but first they need to apologize for acting unethical. Starwood has not done this and does not appear ready to so why would you not want to fire them?
 

gmarine

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,304
Reaction score
17
Points
423
I do not understand someone that votes "Starwood has not treated timeshare owners ethically, and they've lost my trust" without voting that they wish Starwood would be fired. I can forgive someone that has lost my trust but first they need to apologize for acting unethical. Starwood has not done this and does not appear ready to so why would you not want to fire them?


I wouldnt want Starwood fired until I knew who would be taking over managment. If I was certain it was Marriott or another quality company that would take over I would say dump them. However,a company like Starwood can regain the trust of owners with a little effort.
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
56,580
Reaction score
7,624
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, SDO, Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra.
Yep - What George said!
 

Cathyb

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,935
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Carlsbad, CA
Starwood Management

I sure hope someone from Starwood is lurking on this Board and sees what owners are feeling. :annoyed:

What goes around, comes around -- and its just a matter of time for them. :ignore:
 

l2trade

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
1,052
Reaction score
0
Points
246
It would be easy for Starwood to regain my trust. They made an error to apply these new rules to everyone. Starwood must allow non-SVN owners to opt-out of their brand-new policy with II. Non-SVN owners must be able to continue to exchange their same exact week reservation with II, just like if they chose to use it themselves, gift it, rent it out or exchange it with another company.

1) My real estate deed and ownership rules precede Starwood taking over SDO. There is only one season, 1-52 red. There was no concept of platinum, gold plus or gold seasons under my contracts. Starwood later created internal program values for these early memberships as Gold Plus season within the SVN program if an owner qualified to join. I did not. What about owners who are excluded from SVN program and/or decide not to opt-in to this program and it's seasonal point values?

2) Two of my now 'Gold Plus weeks in II' are actually deeded with a PLATINUM season week date. How can Gold Plus season (weeks 22-27 & 36-49) be forced to always apply for all II trades for folks like myself that ARE NOT SVN members nor gold plus seasonal owners?

3) Reservations are and always have been made on first come basis, up to one year in advance. Everyone has the option to plan in advance. How is that not fair?

4) Once I exercise my option to make a reservation, I now own that fixed week. It is legally mine, both bought and paid for. I can stay at the resort, gift it, rent it, trade it, etc. So, what gives Starwood the legal right after all these years to now decide to cancel my reservations and substitute another one of their choosing whenever I want to conduct personal business with II?

5) Both a platinum season owner and 1-52 owner can book week 10, while a gold plus season owner cannot. We all pay the same MF each year. Both platinum and 1-52 have always both been able to use, rent, or trade that reserved week 10. Why is the non-SVN 1-52 owner's valid platinum week reservation now being treated as a gold plus week reservation while the platinum season SVN owner is not?

6) I still no longer have two of my 2010 weeks in my account. Both these weeks still have valid reservations during the platinum season. I am now unable to deposit or request first with these weeks I own without allowing Starwood to cancel ('steal') my platinum rated reservation dates and substitute a gold plus season week of their choosing. There is still no official written explanation or legal justification regarding this unannounced change to my personal II account. What gave Starwood the legal right to alter my personal, non-SVN, II account?

7) There is both a DEMAND VALUE and a TIME VALUE to the week and reservation I OWN. My ownership is somewhat like a stock option. Starwood is encroaching on my personal property rights, violating written contracts and damaging the value of my options and real estate ownership with each passing day.

I can accept an apology from Starwood that they made an honest mistake in violating the rights of older non-SVN owners when they created this new program. Myself and others have just begun to spend significant time to bring this mistake to their attention. I will not give up!

I expect Starwood to act quickly to correct this mistake now that many of us are bringing it to the attention of top management. I expect them to exempt non-SVN owners from the new rules. If so, I'm willing to act quickly to return to happier times when I loved, trusted and praised the Starwood brand to all my family and friends.
 

Cathyb

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,935
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Carlsbad, CA
Good luck in thinking SW will make it OK
 

Ken555

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
13,504
Reaction score
4,865
Points
698
Location
Los Angeles
Resorts Owned
Westin Kierland
Sheraton Desert Oasis
I expect Starwood to act quickly to correct this mistake now that many of us are bringing it to the attention of top management. I expect them to exempt non-SVN owners from the new rules. If so, I'm willing to act quickly to return to happier times when I loved, trusted and praised the Starwood brand to all my family and friends.

Well said.
 

ArtsieAng

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
481
Reaction score
1
Points
228
Location
New York
Ken555

I expect them to exempt non-SVN owners from the new rules.

Yup....Starwood has clumped owners of every resort, and every type of ownership together, as if we all have the exact same deeded rights.....SVN, non-SVN, floating weeks, fixed week, weeks purchased from Starwood, weeks purchased pre-Starwood, whatever. That is clearly not the case.

Each resort/week has it's own policies, CCR's, by-laws, and deeded rights. Resorts that were taken over by Starwood had existing deeded rights that Starwood feels they have the right to ignore. I don't agree......They can remodel the seasons for the purpose of the StarOptions, and of course to make more money for Starwood. However, all non-SVN owners reserve the rights of their original deed, whatever they may be.
 

tomandrobin

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Messages
4,094
Reaction score
103
Points
448
Location
Bel Air, Maryland
I voted no worse then anyone else.

There are plenty of timeshare companies worse then Starwood, but being "No Worse then anyone else" is the problem. Starwood has always held a higher level of standard to me, better the Marriott....better then most chains. To fall back to being mediocre is a shame.
 

jerseygirl

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,327
Reaction score
0
Points
36
I can't possibly rate Starwood "no better, no worse" than other timeshare management companies. Embarrasing as this is to admit, I own 11 timeshare weeks (down from 13). The only one I have ever purchased "retail" was my WSJ pool villa -- and trust me, it had nothing to do with SP incentives or the ability to exchange to SOs. Happy as I am with that particular ownership, I consider it an expensive toy.

Of mine, the VERY BEST management company is a sold-out, small beach resort in a popular location where the town has banned further timeshare development. It is 100% owner controlled and we have a fabulous BOD that does everything in it's power to balance costs and owner desires. Several of the board members have retired and relocated to the area, and at least one attends each and every weekly owners' breakfast. All are able to express any improvements they'd like to see and the annual proxy allows us to vote on everything from new furniture to BOD bonuses. The maintenance fees for my two weeks are less than one week in a 2-BR at SBP (which had bargain maintenance fees when I first started buying there, but like all Starwoods, has risen at a pace that FAR exceeds inflation over the last 4-5 years). During 2005's hurricane season (Katrina, and a lot of others), the resort was hurt BAD by not one, but two, hurricanes. We had to close for 3 months or so. We received frequent updates and pictures of the damage, were warned of the need for a special assessment, etc. When the letter finally came about the amount of the SA, I held my breath as I read it. My assessment ... $66 ... and the resort was like brand new. Despite the incredibly low maintenance fees, this board fully understands reserve funding, pays independent managers, etc. Does it have all the bells and whistles of a Starwood or Hyatt? No. But, if you want to spend a week on the beach, 100 feet or so from the water, it's a wonderful place, within wallking distance to many of the town's restaurants, bars and attractions. Oh, and II gives ACs for deposits.

Next best is Hilton. Resale owners are treated EXACTLY like developer purchases. Fees are reasonable, the units are very nice, the boards of sold-out resorts are not controlled by Hilton, etc. Not only are resale purchasers permitted to participate in the hotel point conversion program ("SPs"), they actually raised the number of points given upon conversion this year to offset the deflation caused by devaluaing the hotel points program.

Next best is Hyatt. Lovely resorts -- most are nicer than most Starwoods. Resale buyers are permitted to use the internal exchange program, but cannot convert to hotel points. Stable maintenance fees, solicitations to run for Board positions, etc.

Last is Starwood ... enough said. I truly believe they sit around reading TUG and think of as many ways as possible to screw resale buyers. It's a game to them. And I consider it our mission to continue to talk about it as it most certainly has some impact on potential buyers who search the internet when considering a purchase. Happy customers = Referrals. I'm 100% certain we've made more than a few people decide not to purchase, renege, etc. A form of "tit for tat" if you will.
 
Last edited:

Westin5Star

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
992
Reaction score
0
Points
376
Location
Florida
Great post Jerseygirl. This is why I voted to fire Starwood. I would rather hire Hilton or Hyatt to manage our properties with owners having control of the BOD. I realize that I would lose my 5 star status, platinum status, and maybe even the ability to trade for hotel points and I am fine with that!
 

jerseygirl

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,327
Reaction score
0
Points
36
I have some free time later this week and will pull out my timeshare "box" (unfortunately not very well organized). I'd like to see if I have enough financial statements to compare what Starwood is charging (as a percentage) vs. Hyatt and Hilton. If anyone can do the same for Marriott and Disney, that would be great.

I was never bothered by Starwood's control of the boards, management fees, etc. until the Special Assessments for the refurbs at Vistana Resort. Yes, the new units are lovely. But someone made a MINT. I am confident a financially prudent board could have done the same thing for significantly less money. We were taken to the cleaners with no vote, somebody's brother-in-law bought a yacht, and they denied SVN membership to many resale buyers who paid the fees by deciding on some arbitrary BS effective date. That was the final straw in my book. :mad:
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
56,580
Reaction score
7,624
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, SDO, Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra.
Bump - bump - bump

I hope all SW owners will vote - the poll is completely anonymous - I can't even see who is voting!

We KNOW that Starwood reads these posts - please take the poll and be heard!
 

SDKath

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2007
Messages
3,076
Reaction score
16
Points
273
Great post Jerseygirl. This is why I voted to fire Starwood. I would rather hire Hilton or Hyatt to manage our properties with owners having control of the BOD. I realize that I would lose my 5 star status, platinum status, and maybe even the ability to trade for hotel points and I am fine with that!

Ditto here. I'd give up 5* status in a heartbeat to avoid making 5-10 phone calls every time an issue crops up (like they say I didn't pay MFs on one of my weeks even though I did so I have to go back to my CC statements and PROVE to them that I did because they are so friggin' disorganized)....

Katherine
 

Troopers

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
831
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
Bay Area, CA
I have some free time later this week and will pull out my timeshare "box" (unfortunately not very well organized). I'd like to see if I have enough financial statements to compare what Starwood is charging (as a percentage) vs. Hyatt and Hilton. If anyone can do the same for Marriott and Disney, that would be great.

I've started to compile historical Starwood MF. I hope to have something to share with the group early next week.

Btw, I did look at the 2009 MFs for several properties against Marriott's and the increase was reasonable (within a couple of percentage points) compared to Marriott's increases.
 

jerseygirl

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,327
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Thanks Troopers.

I was probably unclear with regard to what I'm hoping to find by comparing financial reports. I'm specifically curious as to whether or not Starwood's management fee (as a percent of revenue) is standard for the industry. In other words, do all the "majors" charge a similar percentage (e.g., 10%)?

Maybe it's just me, but I find the concept of removing trash liners from the bathroom wastebaskets histerical while Starwood is collecting millions of dollars in management fees.
 

rickandcindy23

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
28,429
Reaction score
6,673
Points
1,049
Location
The Centennial State
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Platinum Founder's. RCI, Shell, and WorldMark pts. Disney OKW & SSR; Marriott's Willow Ridge and Shadow Ridge (many), ;Val Chatelle (7); Hono Koa (3); SBP lots SBP lots of them, SDO a few; Grand Palms (selling). WKORV-OF (2).
Maybe it's just me, but I find the concept of removing trash liners from the bathroom wastebaskets histerical while Starwood is collecting millions of dollars in management fees.

This saving of pennies seems ridiculous to me as well, but specfically the placemats. If you have beautiful wood tables, why would you NOT want placemats to protect the table from plates that will scratch the wood. Isn't that going to create another maintenance issue?

What about trash cans that now need extra washing because someone throws away a broken bottle of makeup, for example.:rolleyes:
 

Fredm

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2005
Messages
1,782
Reaction score
8
Points
248
Location
Palm Desert, CA
Thanks Troopers.

I was probably unclear with regard to what I'm hoping to find by comparing financial reports. I'm specifically curious as to whether or not Starwood's management fee (as a percent of revenue) is standard for the industry. In other words, do all the "majors" charge a similar percentage (e.g., 10%)?

Maybe it's just me, but I find the concept of removing trash liners from the bathroom wastebaskets histerical while Starwood is collecting millions of dollars in management fees.

jerseygirl,

I don't think your attempt to compare management fees as a percentage will bear the results you are looking for.

10% is pretty standard. What is not standard are the costs beyond the management fee itself.
For example, personnel costs are not included in Starwood's 10%.
Those are additional, and at the rate Starwood chooses to apply.
Likewise, supplies and selection of supplier.

I am not saying that these costs are out of line with other operators.
I don't know,specifically. But, looking at management fee is not the complete measure.

Of course, reserves allocation is also a component. If underfunded when compared to a similar property, it will come out in the wash sooner or later.
 

nodge

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
1,321
Reaction score
1
Points
36
Location
Portland, Oregon
Maybe it's just me, but I find the concept of removing trash liners from the bathroom wastebaskets hysterical while Starwood is collecting millions of dollars in management fees.

Come on gang! We can all think of some money saving and/or money generating things along these lines to help Fritz out. Here are my suggestions:

1. Replacing all green spaces at SVO resorts with "victory gardens" and then selling the produce generated at a stand in front of each resort with the proceeds going directly to Fritz.

2. Replacing all of those "heavenly beds" with "magic fingers" beds that vibrate for a quarter.

3. Impose and strictly enforce new "if it's yellow, let it mellow" policy throughout all SVO resorts.

4. Bake Sale (Scratch that. We'd need OVENS to do that).

5. Two words: Garage Sale!

(How much do you think Fritz can get for all of those giant floor-to-ceiling wall hangings promoting SVO's elite member program including its villa upgrade benefit?)

Can anyone think of other things to help Fritz keep his hotels running and his $2 million a month paycheck? Every nickle counts don't cha know.

-nodge
 
Last edited:

jerseygirl

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,327
Reaction score
0
Points
36
jerseygirl,

I don't think your attempt to compare management fees as a percentage will bear the results you are looking for.

10% is pretty standard. What is not standard are the costs beyond the management fee itself.
For example, personnel costs are not included in Starwood's 10%.
Those are additional, and at the rate Starwood chooses to apply.
Likewise, supplies and selection of supplier.

I am not saying that these costs are out of line with other operators.
I don't know,specifically. But, looking at management fee is not the complete measure.

Of course, reserves allocation is also a component. If underfunded when compared to a similar property, it will come out in the wash sooner or later.

Good points Fred. I'll try to create a comparison table with management fees, personel costs, housekeeping, supplies on a per unit basis. But, I'm dreading pulling out that box and trying to organize it enough to find the right financial statements!:wall:
 

jerseygirl

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,327
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Nodge -- as always, you crack me up. I'd been waiting for you to chime in.
 

stevens397

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
808
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
NJ
Read the Marriott boards and the talk is about how Marriott is threatening to go to an internal system that will exclude resale buyers. Starwood is taking a different tack - they are looking to eliminate the ADVANTAGE that resale buyers have - the ability to chose the week you want to deposit with II.

The difference is that Starwood is willing to try to abrogate deeded rights. There are tens of thousands of owners - how many do you really think visit TUG? They are counting on owner ignorance to carry the day. Sadly, they are probably right.

I just sold my Manhattan Club for a fraction of my resale purchase as the developer has totally destroyed a wonderful project by increasing annual fees by 60% in four years (and tripling them in 8 years) and making it almost impossible to get a reservation unless you call 9 months in advance for a few days. Of course, that also means that if you have to cancel for any reason, there is no chance you can reschedule so you will probably lose your days.

I purchased WMH for the then unheard of price of $7,000 - only one year ago. Yes, times are tough but these developers, in their effort to increase their bottom line, are killing their projects. It didn't seem possible that the price could go any lower, but you all know what's happened.

It's funny, when we first buy from the developer, we are intoxicated by the idea that these properties are deeded. Then we come to realize that we are tied to them forever and very often, our kids want no part of it! And you can't simply walk away! I bought WMH to go to it and knowing if we wanted to go elsewhere, it would be a great trader. Now, who knows?'

Seems very short sighted to me. WMH fees are still in the reasonable range so I can live with it all and see how it plays out. But I will be very vocal in telling others to stay away from Starwood developer purchases.
 

ArtsieAng

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
481
Reaction score
1
Points
228
Location
New York
stevens397

Read the Marriott boards and the talk is about how Marriott is threatening to go to an internal system that will exclude resale buyers.

Marriott has not yet come forward with any concrete future system. Tho rumors abound, no one really knows what if anything, Marriott will change. Time will tell.

Starwood is taking a different tack - they are looking to eliminate the ADVANTAGE that resale buyers have - the ability to chose the week you want to deposit with II.

Realize, the only reason that SVN owners do not have the right to deposit a reserved week is because Starwood took it away from them when they joined StarOptions. If non-SVN owners did have an advantage, it is Starwood's control policies that gave it to them.

I also own Marriott weeks, and I have no problem whatsoever reserving my week, and depositing them into the exchange company of my choosing, for any purpose.
 

Troopers

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
831
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
Bay Area, CA
Thanks Troopers.

I was probably unclear with regard to what I'm hoping to find by comparing financial reports. I'm specifically curious as to whether or not Starwood's management fee (as a percent of revenue) is standard for the industry. In other words, do all the "majors" charge a similar percentage (e.g., 10%)?

Maybe it's just me, but I find the concept of removing trash liners from the bathroom wastebaskets histerical while Starwood is collecting millions of dollars in management fees.

I started to compile historical MF but was not able to gather enough data here on TUG.
 
Top