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Please help me get out!

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FYI. @theo and I are lawyers, as is @Passepartout 's wife. A layman telling lawyers said layman has devised the best legal option over those explained by said lawyers = LOL.

I'm not saying that I devised a new legal option that nobody has thought of previously. I'm just saying that I would be willing to risk a few hundred dollars to have a trusted lawyer negotiate for me. Of course the chance is always present that BG will take the letter place it straight into the trash, but that the possibility of some success is worth the risk for me. Isn't that the underlying calculation that every plaintiff has to make?
 
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It's a business model that is working VERY well indeed already. So well that the 'firms' have increased the upfront fee to a few thousand. Of course, the successful part of the 'model' is money in the pocket of the firm, with few to no timeshare deed-backs except where the owner could have just done it themselves.

But I'm talking about a business model that doesn't involve scamming people. Just being upfront with the clients about their situation, and trying to negotiate with the timeshare company and/or lender to find a situation which works to everyone's advantage.
 

Grammarhero

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I'm not saying that I devised a new legal option that nobody has thought of previously. I'm just saying that I would be willing to risk a few hundred dollars to have a trusted lawyer negotiate for me. Of course the chance is always present that BG will take the letter place it straight into the trash, but that the possibility of some success is worth the risk for me. Isn't that the underlying calculation that every plaintiff has to make?
1) Lawyers bill $300+/hour. How the heck is what you proposing just "a few hundred dollars"?
2) BG receives thousands of such letters threatening lawsuits every year, and then place them straight into the trash.
 
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1) Lawyers bill $300+/hour. How the heck is what you proposing just "a few hundred dollars"?
2) BG receives thousands of such letters threatening lawsuits every year, and then place them straight into the trash.

I know you are a lawyer and I'm sure that you know your industry better than I do, but I imagine that not every lawyer bills $300 an hour, and even of those that do, I don't imagine that they have 8 hours of work every day, or every lawyer would be making over half a million bucks annually, and I know some lawyers that definitely don't. And since most of the underlying claims would be the same, I don't imagine that it would take more than a couple of hours to draft demand letters after the research has been done.

But as to your second point, I don't see how anyone can make BG care. Seems to me that they are holding the cards here, and that they probably have an in-house legal department that rivals some law-firms in size, so a letter from some Joe Shmoe is unlikely to strike much fear into them.
 

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I know you are a lawyer and I'm sure that you know your industry better than I do, but I imagine that not every lawyer bills $300 an hour, and even of those that do, I don't imagine that they have 8 hours of work every day, or every lawyer would be making over half a million bucks annually, and I know some lawyers that definitely don't. And since most of the underlying claims would be the same, I don't imagine that it would take more than a couple of hours to draft demand letters after the research has been done.

But as to your second point, I don't see how anyone can make BG care. Seems to me that they are holding the cards here, and that they probably have an in-house legal department that rivals some law-firms in size, so a letter from some Joe Shmoe is unlikely to strike much fear into them.
You are proposing a business model charging TS owners "hundreds of dollars" for "a couple of hours" of work that ultimately won't get TS owners out of their TSs, as TS resorts "are holding the cards here." That sounds unethical.
 

Grammarhero

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I know you are a lawyer and I'm sure that you know your industry better than I do, but I imagine that not every lawyer bills $300 an hour, and even of those that do, I don't imagine that they have 8 hours of work every day, or every lawyer would be making over half a million bucks annually, and I know some lawyers that definitely don't. And since most of the underlying claims would be the same, I don't imagine that it would take more than a couple of hours to draft demand letters after the research has been done.

But as to your second point, I don't see how anyone can make BG care. Seems to me that they are holding the cards here, and that they probably have an in-house legal department that rivals some law-firms in size, so a letter from some Joe Shmoe is unlikely to strike much fear into them.
Letters and lawsuits from other lawyers do not scare other lawyers. Case in point: https://www.stripes.com/news/us/law...it-related-to-petraeus-investigation-1.399979

TLDR version: the Petraeus socialite, with famous legal counsel Sidley Austin (which the Obamas worked for), sued the FBI for $10 million and demanded a $4 million settlement. DOJ held firm saying it would litigate to the end and prevail. Seeing that they would lose, both Sidley Austin and the Petraeus socialite drop their $10 million lawsuit.
 

Passepartout

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I don't see how anyone can make BG care. Seems to me that they are holding the cards here, and that they probably have an in-house legal department that rivals some law-firms in size, so a letter from some Joe Shmoe is unlikely to strike much fear into them.
Y'know, Regretful, you showed up here yesterday out of the blue asking something that's been asked several times a week for years, and we give the same advice EVERY TIME! Nobody has EVER come back and said they have a plan that works. NOBODY.

I'll say, you're persistent, and with your persistence, go out and get a second job and you'll have this loan paid off in 6 months.,

We know of what we speak, and you obviously DON'T.

We wish you good luck with your future endeavors, but I'm done.

Jim
 

Rolltydr

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I know you are a lawyer and I'm sure that you know your industry better than I do, but I imagine that not every lawyer bills $300 an hour, and even of those that do, I don't imagine that they have 8 hours of work every day, or every lawyer would be making over half a million bucks annually, and I know some lawyers that definitely don't. And since most of the underlying claims would be the same, I don't imagine that it would take more than a couple of hours to draft demand letters after the research has been done.

But as to your second point, I don't see how anyone can make BG care. Seems to me that they are holding the cards here, and that they probably have an in-house legal department that rivals some law-firms in size, so a letter from some Joe Shmoe is unlikely to strike much fear into them.
You have quite an imagination!
 

Theiggy

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Y'know, Regretful, you showed up here yesterday out of the blue asking something that's been asked several times a week for years, and we give the same advice EVERY TIME! Nobody has EVER come back and said they have a plan that works. NOBODY.

I'll say, you're persistent, and with your persistence, go out and get a second job and you'll have this loan paid off in 6 months.,

We know of what we speak, and you obviously DON'T.

We wish you good luck with your future endeavors, but I'm done.

Jim

Thank you! I was about to start shouting “the horse is dead!”



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billymach4

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Oh My Gawd! :eek: This OP is like to Tug of War with a German Shepard!

He should be a TS salesman! .... In Mexico! Can't take no for an answer. :wall:
 

jabberwocky

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Oh My Gawd! :eek: This OP is like to Tug of War with a German Shepard!

He should be a TS salesman! .... In Mexico! Can't take no for an answer. :wall:
Or maybe he is a salesperson for a lawyer selling exit services? :ponder:

Regardless, this thread is now on my ignore list.
 

Fredflintstone

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Letters and lawsuits from other lawyers do not scare other lawyers. Case in point: https://www.stripes.com/news/us/law...it-related-to-petraeus-investigation-1.399979

TLDR version: the Petraeus socialite, with famous legal counsel Sidley Austin (which the Obamas worked for), sued the FBI for $10 million and demanded a $4 million settlement. DOJ held firm saying it would litigate to the end and prevail. Seeing that they would lose, both Sidley Austin and the Petraeus socialite drop their $10 million lawsuit.

Very true.

One thing not pointed out is the language within the contract you signed. From my experiences, the lawyers who work with a TS company are masters at crafting the contracts. So, that weapon alone would make opposing party (being them) be in quite a nice position. Most lawyers I know would want to read the contract you signed before suggesting any action whether it be a “demand letter” or otherwise. I do know if you have very deep pockets, many will fight almost anything but be clear to tell you on the offset that they do not guarantee results. However, they will take you in retainer. No lawyers I know give free rides or take a case like this just for kicks. I wish you luck finding one out there.

IMO, before you proceed, I would comb through the contract language you signed in detail. Not legal advice, just good common sense.

IMO, everyone here has given you solid information. They know what they are talking about. Your possible solutions are well laid out.

I wish you the best.


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easyrider

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I don't even need an old person; I can create an LLC for a couple hundred dollars and transfer it to that entity. But how would that help me? Even if I transfer the property, the note is in my personal capacity and I can't transfer that. And even as far as the MFs go, can I transfer the liability to a third party without the developer's consent? Wouldn't I still be on the hook if the new owner doesn't pay?

There are no back ground checks , credit checks or any requirement but a notarized signature when purchasing a resale timeshare. Once it is out of one name it belongs entirely to the other name.

Starting a llc to do away with a timeshare has been prosecuted many times because timeshares are mortgaged backed securities.

While even I feel that it is unethical to give a timeshare away knowing that the other entity will let it foreclose, when a seller gives away a timeshare with all expenses paid for a year or two, to some one they don't know, it could be some one that doesn't care about their credit rating and is planning on not paying anything but will use the free timeshare weeks paid for by the seller.

No one knows who they are giving their timeshare too for the most part. They just want out.

Bill
 

Fredflintstone

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There are no back ground checks , credit checks or any requirement but a notarized signature when purchasing a resale timeshare. Once it is out of one name it belongs entirely to the other name.

Starting a llc to do away with a timeshare has been prosecuted many times because timeshares are mortgaged backed securities.

While even I feel that it is unethical to give a timeshare away knowing that the other entity will let it foreclose, when a seller gives away a timeshare with all expenses paid for a year or two, to some one they don't know, it could be some one that doesn't care about their credit rating and is planning on not paying anything but will use the free timeshare weeks paid for by the seller.

No one knows who they are giving their timeshare too for the most part. They just want out.

Bill

Here is a nice article backing up your point Bill.




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Try a legal clinic at a law school. They might take it to right a wrong perpetrated by the TS developers.

I once got a insurance company to pay me $700.00 in an auto accident by asking for a jury trial. ($20.00 case allows you to ask for a jury by the US Constitution, )

Maybe a jury trial would work here?
 

LannyPC

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Or maybe he is a salesperson for a lawyer selling exit services? :ponder:
Yeah something smells like a shill here

Those thoughts crossed my mind too when the OP rather quickly responded to my statement about these exit companies running the unwitting foreclosure scheme by saying that (s)he previously contacted these companies and they assert that they do not do defaults and foreclosures.
 
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Try a legal clinic at a law school. They might take it to right a wrong perpetrated by the TS developers.

I once got a insurance company to pay me $700.00 in an auto accident by asking for a jury trial. ($20.00 case allows you to ask for a jury by the US Constitution, )

Maybe a jury trial would work here?

I haven't checked my documents, but I'd be very surprised if they don't contain arbitration and a waiver of jury trial clauses.
 
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Those thoughts crossed my mind too when the OP rather quickly responded to my statement about these exit companies running the unwitting foreclosure scheme by saying that (s)he previously contacted these companies and they assert that they do not do defaults and foreclosures.

Believe what you want. I stated that many of the exit companies did advise me to stop making payments. There is one I spoke with who also advised me to do the same, but then when I asked if that was a necessary component of their strategy, they told me that it's not and I'm free to keep making payments if I choose to. Regardless, there were other red flags so I will not be using them.
 
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Wow, this thread has headed has become pretty heated recently so I think it's best if I step away for a little (at least from this thread). But some parting thoughts:

1. In doing some research on this subject, I've come to agree that all of the timeshare exit companies I've spoken to are very likely scammers in the sense that they will charge a significant sum up-front and then, best case scenario, send a form complaint letter to the timeshare and then advise the owner to stop paying (and thereby possibly destroy the owner's credit).

2. I've only managed to reach one timeshare exit attorney, but it's the same story.

3. I don't think that I've been beating a dead horse or playing tug-of-with a German Shepherd. But people are very quick to offer advice but it's not always substantiated by facts. So, while I never doubted the sincerity of my of the replies, I wanted to better understand the reasoning behind them.

4. I am not a shill for any timeshare exit company, and if I was, I've clearly done a very bad job because I just created a popular thread which basically poops all over timeshare companies.

5. I will continue paying my fees until I figure out what to do.

6. If I come across any lawyer who is willing to negotiate with BG for me and charge a minimal amount (a unicorn, I know), I will probably give it a shot, if for no other reason than to see what happens.

Thanks again to everyone for their time and spirited discussion.
 

e.bram

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I haven't checked my documents, but I'd be very surprised if they don't contain arbitration and a waiver of jury trial clauses.
If the contract is itself is UNCONSCIONABLE(sale by a professional RE agent for a substantial amount which can be had for a dollar) the the whole contract would be void including any clauses.
 

Grammarhero

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Wow, this thread has headed has become pretty heated recently so I think it's best if I step away for a little (at least from this thread). But some parting thoughts:

1. In doing some research on this subject, I've come to agree that all of the timeshare exit companies I've spoken to are very likely scammers in the sense that they will charge a significant sum up-front and then, best case scenario, send a form complaint letter to the timeshare and then advise the owner to stop paying (and thereby possibly destroy the owner's credit).

2. I've only managed to reach one timeshare exit attorney, but it's the same story.

3. I don't think that I've been beating a dead horse or playing tug-of-with a German Shepherd. But people are very quick to offer advice but it's not always substantiated by facts. So, while I never doubted the sincerity of my of the replies, I wanted to better understand the reasoning behind them.

4. I am not a shill for any timeshare exit company, and if I was, I've clearly done a very bad job because I just created a popular thread which basically poops all over timeshare companies.

5. I will continue paying my fees until I figure out what to do.

6. If I come across any lawyer who is willing to negotiate with BG for me and charge a minimal amount (a unicorn, I know), I will probably give it a shot, if for no other reason than to see what happens.

Thanks again to everyone for their time and spirited discussion.

TS owners with foreclosed mortgages deeded in FL, but who do not object to the trustee foreclosure, will not be sued for TS mortgage balance or the "deficient" balance. That is why exit companies advise you to default - to create leverage.

* Legal Disclaimer: These paraphrases of timeshare MF or mortgage (mort.) foreclosure (FC), deficiency/ anti-deficiency/ permissive anti-deficiency (D/AD/PAD), judicial/ nonjudicial (J/ NJ), and statutes of limitation (SOL) laws are to provide basic information. These paraphrases assist those doing their own legal research and make their own decisions on timeshare-related actions or inactions. These paraphrases are NOT intended to render legal advice, establish an attorney-client relationship, or be an alternative for appropriate legal research. The referenced information constantly changes and evolves. Please consult appropriate legal counsel prior to any timeshare-related activities or signing any timeshare documents. Every situation is different, and please consult a legal counsel on your particular situation.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ute&URL=0700-0799/0721/Sections/0721.855.html

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0721/Sections/0721.856.html

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0000-0099/0095/0095.html

Operative Language: “If you do not object to the use of the trustee foreclosure procedure, you will not be subject to a deficiency judgment even if the proceeds from the sale of your timeshare interest are insufficient to offset the amounts secured by the lien.”

Operative Language: “WITHIN FIVE YEARS.— (b) A legal or equitable action on a contract, obligation, or liability founded on a written instrument . . . (c) An action to foreclose a mortgage.” Sec. 95-11.

Note: non-objection or inaction likely leads to non-judicial, anti-deficiency treatment; objection may waive non-judicial, anti-deficiency treatment. TS defaults have SOL of five years.
 
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