Planet Hollywood Towers - the #1 timeshare in the US?

[Larry]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cluemeister
No offense to Perry, but I'm happy to be slumming it on my 18th floor strip front skyview suite at Polo Towers. It's a guaranteed week and unit, and I can see from the Luxor to the south all the way up to the Eiffel Tower, including the Bellagio Fountains. I'm also directly across from Project City Center. I feel I slightly overpaid a little at 3K, but the view from the balcony is stunning.

From one Cheapskate to another "Well Done"!!

GEORGE

I also feel the same way.

In addition like Perry I always have considered timeshares as an investment and have bought and sold several timeshares for a profit as well as renting out my Aruba weeks resulting in a return of over 15% per year on those weeks.

When I bought my Jockey Club resale I figured that based on the underlying value of a true Vegas strip location the price had to go up. Since then the property around the JC was sold and we will have direct access to Casinos, restaurants, underground parking, shops etc. at the new Cosmopolitan resort. So we will have most of the amenities that Perry is talking about and prices still haven't gone up. I also have a fixed week unit that also floats and if I use the unit I own have a direct view of the Bellagio fountains. I thought the view of the fountains was nice the last time I was there but I'm not spending much time in my room anyway looking at the view. There is no question that JC is not fancy but other than the ugly exterior of the buildings it's quite comfortable and pretty nice inside ever since they have done the renovations of the units, hallways and lobby area.

I have bought and sold many timeshares in Hawaii, Florida and the Caribbean and have made a profit on every week that I have ever bought. Right now I still can't sell my JC for more than I paid for it but have gotten decent trades and my investment is fairly low ( although I could do better on a resale purchase today) Maybe when the Cosmopolitan is completed I can sell this for a profit but even if I didn't I'm fine with this purchase which can get me to Vegas just about anytime I want at the owners rate of about $70 per night for the weekend in a 1BR with full kitchen on the strip. So I'm also fine with my cheapo week. :whoopie:

 

[timeos2]

Let the resales begin?

And could it be we already see distressed resales of PHT before it even exists? Shades of almost every other Wastegate sold with some of the highest pressure, misleading sales tactics known to sales weaselhood.

See the dozen or so already up for sale . I guess planning to be attached to a casino, being near the strip and having a pool complex isn't all that appealing to these early buyers? The result at PHT will be no different than every other Wastegate (and most other timeshares). Too much inventory sold under pressure to uninformed or unqualified buyers leading to desperate sellers depressing the market regardless of how good or bad the individual week/unit a seller may have to offer. And it hasn't even been built yet.

And how about Park City Wastegate? That too is going to be a real easy to sell unit at prices above retail? Tell that to the owners offering time at 1/4 the retail that don't have buyers. "I will make a profit when I decide to sell it" sounds like a fantasy more than fact.

Theories are great but the real world of timeshares says resales are cheap and seldom meet, forget exceed, retail prices. Your mileage may vary.

 

[PerryM]

Great News! 83% - 140% of developer prices

I deleted this post

 

[mshatty]

Is that a cash register bell I hear?

For your sake, I hope it is.

 

[Spence]

Geez, maybe I ought to flip our unit today and make 140% profit? (well ours would be astronomical)

If you go by the developer prices quoted me:

1BR EY week 52 developer price is $45,900 and resale is $38,000 or 83% of developer prices.

2BR EY Developer price is $48,900 – resale is $42,000 or 86% of developer prices.

1BR EY Developer price is $35,900 and resale is $44,900 or 125% of developer prices – profit here! I like his attitude.

2BR EY Developer price is $48,900 and resale is $45,000 or 92% of developer prices.

2BR EY Developer price is $48,900 and resale is $68,199 or 140% profit. The banked weeks talked about are 4 II weeks I believe and at Westgate Orlando trading power.

I don’t have EOY prices but assume they show strong resale prices too.

What other developer has these strong resale value as above? And they are still pouring the foundation at this second. Sounds great for ph and me especially.


Do folks do stupid things and get a slick talking salesrep to sell them a unit when they just wanted the free buffet - you bet.

However someone show me a panic selling here!


P.S.
Notice the $6,000 rental rate charged for a plain old 2BR floating week of the year:
http://www.sellmytimesharenow.com/details.php?idadd=320226

Imagine a week 52 rental rate of double that?

Is that a cash register bell I hear? Cha-ching!!!


P.P.S.
The prices I quoted are day 1 developer prices available to the general public.

Flamingo Bay owners get much better prices.

Westgate employees got even better prices.

I'm guessing that these are employees flipping units. I got the impression that a number of employees for Westgate bought into ph at prices we can't get.

C'mon Perry,
You can't really believe these prices asked for sales and rentals on that shyster's site for something that doesn't even exist yet?

 

[PerryM]

Where's my Ouija Board?

I deleted this post

 

[Shoeshine]

........ .

Is that a cash register bell I hear? Cha-ching!!!

This is some of the best entertainment you can get outside
of actually being in a Las Vegas Gentlemen's club !!

-
-
-

 

[gmarine]

Geez, maybe I ought to flip our unit today and make 140% profit? (well ours would be astronomical)

If you go by the developer prices quoted me:

1BR EY week 52 developer price is $45,900 and resale is $38,000 or 83% of developer prices.

2BR EY Developer price is $48,900 – resale is $42,000 or 86% of developer prices.

1BR EY Developer price is $35,900 and resale is $44,900 or 125% of developer prices – profit here! I like his attitude.

2BR EY Developer price is $48,900 and resale is $45,000 or 92% of developer prices.

2BR EY Developer price is $48,900 and resale is $68,199 or 140% profit. The banked weeks talked about are 4 II weeks I believe and at Westgate Orlando trading power.

I don’t have EOY prices but assume they show strong resale prices too.

What other developer has these strong resale value as above? And they are still pouring the foundation at this second. Sounds great for ph and me especially.


Do folks do stupid things and get a slick talking salesrep to sell them a unit when they just wanted the free buffet - you bet.

However someone show me a panic selling here!


P.S.
Notice the $6,000 rental rate charged for a plain old 2BR floating week of the year:
http://www.sellmytimesharenow.com/details.php?idadd=320226

Imagine a week 52 rental rate of double that?

Imagine a 2,500 sq ft 4BR condo overlooking the Strip that sleeps 14 at New Years eve!

Is that a cash register bell I hear? Cha-ching!!!


P.P.S.
The prices I quoted are day 1 developer prices available to the general public.

Flamingo Bay owners get much better prices.

Westgate employees got even better prices.

I'm guessing that these are employees flipping units. I got the impression that a number of employees for Westgate bought into ph at prices we can't get.

Unfortunately its just wishfull thinking. Just because someone is asking a ridiculous price for a resale doesnt mean they will get it. All you have to do is look at EBAY or the TUG classifieds for a good laugh.

As far as renting New Years Eve in Vegas, keep in mind that the average Vegas visitor spends less than 4 nights. And most years only 2 nights during New Years week command a premium over normal rates.

Again, I wish you luck with this but I think you are over estimating the value of it.

 

[PerryM]

I deleted this post

 

[gmarine]

Listen; Redweek and MyResortNetwork have no listings only this site. I asked and I got the impression that Westgate employees were doing the flipping - so I never brought this stuff up.

You guys did.

I didnt see John's reference to the listings. I thought you were referring to them. I apologize for my error.

 

[timeos2]

A duck is still a duck

Listen; Redweek and MyResortNetwork have no listings only this site. I asked and I got the impression that Westgate employees were doing the flipping - so I never brought this stuff up.

You guys did.

It appears those sites deal only in resorts that actually exist. Both show resales for Park City, below retail cost by the way. When PHT exists, based on the appearance already on other sites, it will be there too. Bottom line this is a Wastegate just like every other Wastegate no matter how much they want to dress it up as a Marriott, Hilton or Manhattan Club - all of which also sell below retail despite the limited quantities available and ROFR.

And if Wastegate weasels really were "flipping" the property it is completely against real estate rules at the least and may even be illegal. This is the group you want to plant your trust with? This deal sounds much more like a thorn than a rose.

I did find it very interesting that the quotes from the King and Robert Earl back in 2006 regarding the towers are almost exactly what you have given as your reasons for purchase. Is this a put on? If I read your detailed analysis does it say "Ha ha - you actually thought I'd pay tens of thousands to a developer"? In the past your posts seemed reasonable even if it wasn't an opinion I could agree with. But this one seems off the wall, if you'll pardon the expression. There is no way it seems to make any sense based on the numbers shown so far nor would it make sense even of they were 1/2 the published amounts. The market for high end timeshare is too limited to anticipate any type of return such as you propose. The fact that the units can be rented, with the always present big commission to the management(s) if they handle the process, only reduces the chance that someone would be willing to pay above retail to buy it. Why buy the cow, etc.

Perry, I mean no disrespect but are you serious about this plan? I'd like to look over your details if you are but on the surface it appears unworkable. Maybe you see something I'm missing.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

According to the resale price listings for Westgate Park City, I could get about $5,000 More than what I paid. I am not ready to sell yet as I am enjoying skiing at The Canyons in a 2 bedroom fantastic place for only my annual dues of $950 when I used to pay $4,000 for a week rental.

Westgate haters may be happy to hear that I toured the Westgate Smokey Mountain property today in Gatlingberg, TN and I thought it is getting way OVERBUILT. It is pretty nice for a timeshare, but not as nice as Park City and not even close to matching the DVC Wilderness Lodge. However, the place was MOBBED with tours and the sales center was 100% full....I snuck in without registering. The indoor water park would be fun for kids, but can't compete with Typhoon Lagoon.

 

[PerryM]

I deleted this post

 

[spatenfloot]

2BR EY Developer price is $48,900 and resale is $68,199 or 140% profit.

Actually that's only 39.5% profit (assuming someone would pay more than developer prices, which isn't likely). Hey! You learned something!

 

[Kola]

Westgate haters may be happy to hear that I toured the Westgate Smokey Mountain property today in Gatlingberg, TN and I thought it is getting way OVERBUILT. It is pretty nice for a timeshare, but not as nice as Park City and not even close to matching the DVC Wilderness Lodge. However, the place was MOBBED with tours and the sales center was 100% full....I snuck in without registering. The indoor water park would be fun for kids, but can't compete with Typhoon Lagoon.

Bill, I know this is off topic, but I have just a short question for you. Westgate Smokey Mountain resort in Gatlinburg is where my son and his family will be staying in July on an exchange. Do I read you to say that their indoor water park is not yet ready ? What can you say about the unit's interiors ? Thanks.

Kola

 

[derb]

Perry - - As Max Bialystok once said, "When you've got it - -Flaunt it.

 

[PerryM]

I deleted this post

 

[cluemeister]

Perry,

First of all, I wish I had the guts and money to attempt what you're doing.

Having said that, I'm concerned with a few things. One, you don't seem to have a strong grasp of the overall timeshare situation in Vegas. As an example, when someone mentioned the HGVC Flamingo, you seemed unaware of its location and amenities. Second, Westgate does not have the ROFR buyback consistency of a Marriott; and thirdly, your New Year's Eve rental rates seem awfully high even by Vegas standards.

I still wish you success!

 

[Steamboat Bill]

Bill, I know this is off topic, but I have just a short question for you. Westgate Smokey Mountain resort in Gatlinburg is where my son and his family will be staying in July on an exchange. Do I read you to say that their indoor water park is not yet ready ? What can you say about the unit's interiors ? Thanks.

Kola

The waterpark is 100% open and is very new and nice. It is just small as compared to the Disney water parks.

I really likes the interior decorations of the Westgate Smokey Mountain rooms as they are similar to the Park City location. Westgate really does a pretty nice job with their layout and theming. They also have a nice private riding stable and cool picknic areas.

My only complaint is that Westgate is trying to squeeze out too much of a good thing and are overbuilding this location so there will be tons of inventory for anyone considering buying and reselling. I have seen lots of photos of the place in the Westgate magazines and brochures...I was just surprised at the size of the resort as it seems to pack a lot of density in a mountain themed resort.

This is getting to be a pet peve of mine as I think MOST new timeshare resorts are too verticle and too dense. Perhaps this is the new trend in timeshares and is NOT limited to Westgate.

 

[PerryM]

Status update

I deleted this post

 

[timeos2]

Build more, saturate

My only complaint is that Westgate is trying to squeeze out too much of a good thing and are overbuilding this location so there will be tons of inventory for anyone considering buying and reselling. I have seen lots of photos of the place in the Westgate magazines and brochures...I was just surprised at the size of the resort as it seems to pack a lot of density in a mountain themed resort.

This is getting to be a pet peve of mine as I think MOST new timeshare resorts are too verticle and too dense. Perhaps this is the new trend in timeshares and is NOT limited to Westgate.

Westgate seems to be the leader in this unfortunate trend. I first noticed it at Westgate Lakes in Orlando in the late 90's. That development looks like a NYC tenement not a Florida resort. Since then all their developments - even the newer parts of the original Westgate Villas that helped start Orlando timesharing - have all become towering monsters with no uniqueness and crowded into small areas. Others have followed suit but not to the degree of Wastegate.

 

[JeffW]

...I told him to get well and when he is finished with the surgery and gets back to work he can then pursue the answers I had asked for...

I guess there was no urgency in the information you requested? It sounds like the guy will be out of work for a while. With an employee dealing with any client, I would have expected him to say, "...in my absence, you can contact so&so, who should be able to provide answers to your questions..." If your original request was, "I'm thinking about buying another unit...", I doubt he'd wait several weeks (maybe months) before getting back to you.

Westgate ph has 50+ floors, which how many units per floor? I doubt the rest of their sales and marketing effort is stopping because of the unavailability of one person.

Jeff

 

[PerryM]

I deleted this post

 

[DosMasCervesos]

Hi Perry,

I'm a relative newbie here. Before this thread, which caught my eye because of the bold prediction, I had never heard of Westgate. I have no negative bias towards them at all.

Having read through this thread, I think there is a valid point that your sales manager contact may be not be 100% reliable. I base this on the following criteria:

• No one can find any evidence online or elsewhere that Starwood is involved in the timeshare management.
• Corporate Westgate says Starwood isn't involved in the timeshare management, your sales manager says it is. I think corporate would would have the more correct (honest?) definitive answer.
• It should be trivial for them to provide proof that Starwood is involved. Having to get legal involved sure feels like stalling to me.
• Does it make sense for Westgate to have the timeshare portion of PH managed by Starwood?

We all know timeshare sales will verbally stretch the truth, exaggerate claims, and in some cases flat-out lie. And all of this while being very convincing. If it isn't in writing, then I wouldn't believe anything a sales rep tells me.

If you don't care if Starwood is not involved, then that is fine. If you do care, then if I were you I would do some more DD on this question. If this claim turns out to be bogus, then maybe that will raise other issues or concerns you have for your purchase. Maybe not, I don't know.

It might be easy to dismiss all of this because there are some vocal Westgate haters here, but I'm looking at this from what I consider an objective angle. Just MHO...

Regards,
Matt

 

[bruwery]

Wow, this is one of the most entertaining threads I've ever seen here on TUG.

If my earlier post read things that were unintended, or came across as overly sarcastic, please accept my apologies. No offense was intended. I guess I just don't read very well.

Moving along, the OP is clearly disturbed by the Westgate bashing. However, the original topic of this thread concerns a rather expensive purchase of a timeshare built (and probably managed...) by Westgate. The OP also made some very bold statements regarding the future value of this timeshare. That being said, this seems like a perfectly logical place to express concerns and opinions about the developer of said timeshare; clearly, how this resort is managed will impact the resale value.

Like other posters, I think the math on this whole thing is very fuzzy. One thing's for sure, it's risky from an investment standpoint.

For the bulk of TUG members, the TUG mantra of "buy resale" makes perfect sense. For many of us, we just want to go on some sort of vacation regularly, and not necessarily in the same place every time. We don't need an unwavering guarantee for a certain week, a certain view, or even a certain resort. We just want to travel and see nice places, without spending a week in an overpriced 12x20 room consisting of dirty carpet, a noisy malfunctioning air conditioning unit, a bed, an uncomfortable chair, and a 19 inch TV. A resale timeshare purchase makes perfect sense.

However, like most rules, the TUG mantra does have exceptions. If you look at it from the standpoint of "this is the unit, week and view I absolutely want to own, and I'm willing to pay a premium to have it", then a developer purchase can be perfectly logical - probably necessary.

Viewing it from that perspective, Perry, this is a great investment for you - as you've indicated that you intend to use it. I believe it would be very difficult to rent the unit for $10k as you've postulated, but that's irrelevant if you don't intend to rent it. (Almost as irrelevant as my opinion...)

Considering your intention of making a profit on this timeshare, however, a very critical consideration becomes: can you convince somebody that they should give you $100k cash (or whatever your target figure might be) to own this timeshare week?

Given the dialogue contained in this thread from some very timeshare-educated posters, that seems to be very questionable. One problem is that you'll be looking at a rather limited market. There are plenty of people willing to plunk down a couple grand to own an "ordinary" timeshare, but when you start dealing with the kind of figures involved with this one, the market shrinks considerably.

With the amount of money involved, most buyers will perform a fair amount of due diligence before writing that check. After all, when you flip it, it likely won't be a high pressure, this-deal-is-good-for-today-only-so-sign-now-or-your-children-will-hate-you-and-kill-you-in-your-sleep sales presentation. More likely it will be a "Hi, I'm calling about the ad for a timeshare. Could you tell me the cost on that?"

Anyway, enjoy the PH. In spite of all the banter back and forth, let's not lose sight of the fact that your enjoyment of it should be the most important consideration. I'll wave up to you as I get trampled to death in the mob scene taking place 500 feet below. If I survive the party on The Strip, I'll knock on your door and ask for a drink. In fact, I might need two of them after climbing 50 flights of stairs. (I'm assuming, being a Westgate property, that the elevators won't be working. Just kidding - I couln't resist throwing that in there, though...)

Onward and upward,

Mark