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PIC points, selling, just plain lost in the Timeshare world

SJHawkins

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Hello all and thanks in advance for your time.

I did do some reading and searching and just don't understand it.

My mother-in-law (MIL) wants to sell one of her Timeshares, she had a stroke and the unit will likely go unused from this point forward. Her husband passed 5 years ago.

I will give a list of bullet points to try to give an idea of what has happened thru out the years.

Bought 3 weeks in or around 1985 at Breezy Point MN.
Bought 1 week in or around 1995 at Breezy Point MN for a total of 4 weeks.
No clue how this works but she gets another week like every 3 years or something.

The following is the unit she wants to sell, bought in 2006.

Gold Owner if that means anything.

Club Wyndham – Waikiki Beach Walk, Honolulu Hawaii
Contract Type: UDI
Assigned to Club Wyndham Plus: Yes
Points Owned: 280,000
Use Year End Date: Dec 31

Contract Type: PIC
Assigned to Club Wyndham Plus: Yes
Points Owned: 154,000
Use Year End Date: N/A


Contract Type: PIC
Assigned to Club Wyndham Plus: Yes
Points Owned: 126,000
Use Year End Date: N/A



Questions/comments:

I don' t understand a PIC point from a UDI point to be honest and how they work.

Does she own one week in the same unit? If so I can't find a unit number. Or is a first come first serve type of deal for that one week?

If I have the history right they moved some points from Breezy to the Hawaii Timeshare program. These are the PIC points?

When going to sell the Hawaii unit does a person move the PIC points back to the Breezy units?

Does it make sense to move the points back, whats to gain if you do, how does one move them?

With the 4 weeks at Breezy Point the plan is to sell one of them after Hawaii and get it down to 3 weeks total. She wants to leave one week to each kid if they want it or not you get it.

I know the Hawaii unit is under Wyndham but for the life of me I'm not sure what system Breezy point is under, I thought it was RCI. Need to dig this up.

We really hope this Hawaii unit is desirable and we stand some chance to sell it. After I see how to deal with the points the next step on trying to sell it is going to be a challenge I'm afraid. Would be great if they would just buy it back. They were the first ones in this building so I'm sure she will have to take it in the shorts to move it.

As you can tell I'm a total noob here, feel like a fish out of water, I'm a quick learner thou.


Thanks for any insight or words of wisdom to help the family out.

Sorry it got so long,

Jay
 

am1

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Try to give them away. The pic points will not transfer. That is only between your mil and Wyndham.

I suggest you do some more reading.
 

ronparise

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Hello all and thanks in advance for your time.

I did do some reading and searching and just don't understand it.

My mother-in-law (MIL) wants to sell one of her Timeshares, she had a stroke and the unit will likely go unused from this point forward. Her husband passed 5 years ago.

I will give a list of bullet points to try to give an idea of what has happened thru out the years.

Bought 3 weeks in or around 1985 at Breezy Point MN.
Bought 1 week in or around 1995 at Breezy Point MN for a total of 4 weeks.
No clue how this works but she gets another week like every 3 years or something.

The following is the unit she wants to sell, bought in 2006.

Gold Owner if that means anything.

Club Wyndham – Waikiki Beach Walk, Honolulu Hawaii
Contract Type: UDI
Assigned to Club Wyndham Plus: Yes
Points Owned: 280,000
Use Year End Date: Dec 31

Contract Type: PIC
Assigned to Club Wyndham Plus: Yes
Points Owned: 154,000
Use Year End Date: N/A


Contract Type: PIC
Assigned to Club Wyndham Plus: Yes
Points Owned: 126,000
Use Year End Date: N/A



Questions/comments:

I don' t understand a PIC point from a UDI point to be honest and how they work.

Does she own one week in the same unit? If so I can't find a unit number. Or is a first come first serve type of deal for that one week?

If I have the history right they moved some points from Breezy to the Hawaii Timeshare program. These are the PIC points?

When going to sell the Hawaii unit does a person move the PIC points back to the Breezy units?

Does it make sense to move the points back, whats to gain if you do, how does one move them?

With the 4 weeks at Breezy Point the plan is to sell one of them after Hawaii and get it down to 3 weeks total. She wants to leave one week to each kid if they want it or not you get it.

I know the Hawaii unit is under Wyndham but for the life of me I'm not sure what system Breezy point is under, I thought it was RCI. Need to dig this up.

We really hope this Hawaii unit is desirable and we stand some chance to sell it. After I see how to deal with the points the next step on trying to sell it is going to be a challenge I'm afraid. Would be great if they would just buy it back. They were the first ones in this building so I'm sure she will have to take it in the shorts to move it.

As you can tell I'm a total noob here, feel like a fish out of water, I'm a quick learner thou.


Thanks for any insight or words of wisdom to help the family out.

Sorry it got so long,

Jay

Your mother in law owns 4 weeks at Breezy point and 1 deeded ownership at Waikiki Beach Walk. I assume there is no mortgage (is there??)

Waikiki Beach is an undefined interest (udi) . If you look at her deed you will see something like this: a 280000/xxxxxxxxx interset in units xxx to yyy units in building z at Waikiki Beach Walk. ie she owns a share of the entire resort for which she has 280000 points to use to make reservations anywhere in the Wyndham system she does not own a specific week and unit like breezy point.

for two of her 4 breezy point units Wyndham has also assigned a point value. Your mother in law can use these points within the Wyndham system or or not. she can just use the weeks. In Wyndhams language thes are PIC weeks (personal interval choice)

so within the Wyndham system your Mother in Law has 560000 points.(280+154+126) Points are her currency used to make reservations at the Wyndham resorts

Wyndham has a VIP program. owning over 500000 points brings her to the Gold level. The benefits are a discount on last minute reservations, 10 guest certificates, unlimited housekeeping and unlimited transaction credits. Its important to know that the VIP benefits dont transfer to a new owner unless its a famly member or by operation of a will

Your mother in law could sell this stuff but the value is not much more than zero.

So it seems to me her choices are to find someone in the family to give this to now, of course the new owner will have to pay the maintenance fees...Im guessing 3-4000/year. or will it to someone, or default,

There are real estate brokers... that specialize in timeshares, but not many

be aware that there are other companies that will promise to sell your timeshares but want an up front fee...almost always these are scams and will take your money, and never deliver a buyer
 

SJHawkins

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To add a little more light on the subject. I am the POA for my wife’s family and for the most part have been dealing with cleaning up the financials for the past 6-8months. Lets just say it’s been a challenge. As it stands now 3 out of the 5 timeshares are not titled correctly, maybe that’s to harsh, they did not get titled to the trust and would have wound up in probate. I know one thing; any property that goes thru probate can be a pain in the rear.

You asked if she had a mortgage, yes she has one on the Hawaii Wyndham property. I could not tell you why they took the mortgage, it made zero sense as far as I can tell. I sat down with the her financial advisor and we both just shook our heads, its at 8% btw. So as part of cleaning it up and getting the titles corrected we will be paying off the mortgage this week or next, around $7,000.

Everything I have read about these has left such a sour taste in my mouth I'm so tempted to just walk away from the Hawaii unit. However morally I just don’t think I could do it. Sounds like I cant give the unit way and its going to cost her about $1000 to get the paper work done to get it titled to the trust. If we new we could move this thing in 3-6months I don’t think would mess with the titling, does not seem very likely from what I have read.

If its worth $0 dollars, would it make any sense to try to move this Hawaii unit to a building that is stateside? Being in Hawaii it will hardly if ever get used by my the MIL or any of the family. We did have a sit down with all the family members and ask if anyone of them thought they would use it, was a big nope.

The MF are around $1,400 for Hawaii, I suppose I need to see what 560,000 points is worth to go somewhere else, maybe that’s a good value I just don’t know.

Its funny her MF for 4 weeks at Breezy is around $1,800 total while the 1 week in Hawaii is $1,400.

The more I type the more ideas come into my head.

Thanks again for all who dare to read all this.

Jay
 

SJHawkins

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Try to give them away. The pic points will not transfer. That is only between your mil and Wyndham.

I suggest you do some more reading.

Will the PIC points transfer to family upon death, i.e. go with the property? I thought thats what I read.

Edit: I re-read the post from Ron, he coverd this, thanks.
 

yumdrey

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The MF are around $1,400 for Hawaii, I suppose I need to see what 560,000 points is worth to go somewhere else, maybe that’s a good value I just don’t know.

Its funny her MF for 4 weeks at Breezy is around $1,800 total while the 1 week in Hawaii is $1,400.
Jay

The maintenance fee sounds too low.
Maybe some of the Breezy are biennial (every other year) usage?
In that case, you pay maintenance fee half each year.
Sorry to hear about your hassle.
 

SJHawkins

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The maintenance fee sounds too low.
Maybe some of the Breezy are biennial (every other year) usage?
In that case, you pay maintenance fee half each year.
Sorry to hear about your hassle.


Thank you, I will double check those fees to be sure.

Its not so much of a hassle its more of how frustrating learing the in and outs of Timeshares.

I was able to confirm that the Breezy units are in the weeks program, TP?

Now that I know their are some of each. weeks vs. points whats the better of the two?

On the face of it the point system seems very simple.
 

janej

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560000 Wyndham points/ $3200 MF/ VIP gold is not a bad combination. IMHO, it is worth investing some time to learn the system before paying off the mortgage or transfer the title. You will get a better feeling if this would be an useful package for your family. It is ironic that you can't sell the package for anything, but it would cost a lot if you want to buy it since you can't get the VIP benefit from resale market.
 

SOS8260456

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Thank you, I will double check those fees to be sure.

Its not so much of a hassle its more of how frustrating learing the in and outs of Timeshares.

I was able to confirm that the Breezy units are in the weeks program, TP?

Now that I know their are some of each. weeks vs. points whats the better of the two?

On the face of it the point system seems very simple.

It is not just learning the ins and outs of timeshares, you also need to learn the ins and outs of Wyndham points. The fixed weeks probably have more value being utilized in the Wyndham PIC program and having access to VIP gold gives access to point discounts and upgrades.

A lot of information to digest. Good luck!
 

SJHawkins

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560000 Wyndham points/ $3200 MF/ VIP gold is not a bad combination. IMHO, it is worth investing some time to learn the system before paying off the mortgage or transfer the title. You will get a better feeling if this would be an useful package for your family. It is ironic that you can't sell the package for anything, but it would cost a lot if you want to buy it since you can't get the VIP benefit from resale market.

Thats part of the issue, you hit the nail on the head, we don't know enough of the in and outs of it.

We have not tried to sell it, but from what I read and have been told its not woth a heck of a lot in terms of dollars. If the family would use it that would be great. First thing first it to get the title to the trust and pay it off. That alone is going to take a few months.

I think your advice is good, hang onto it and see if it works. In the end it comes down to what my MIL really wants to do with it.

I really feel for some one who was left one of these in an estate and had to deal with it in a timley manner if they never owned one before.

I dont quite understand the PIC points, when you use them they are gone forever correct? So after that you would loose you VIP/gold status. That is unless you have some more to transfer in. Or Maybe you can't use those points or should not.
 

janej

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Thats part of the issue, you hit the nail on the head, we don't know enough of the in and outs of it.

We have not tried to sell it, but from what I read and have been told its not woth a heck of a lot in terms of dollars. If the family would use it that would be great. First thing first it to get the title to the trust and pay it off. That alone is going to take a few months.

I think your advice is good, hang onto it and see if it works. In the end it comes down to what my MIL really wants to do with it.

I really feel for some one who was left one of these in an estate and had to deal with it in a timley manner if they never owned one before.

I dont quite understand the PIC points, when you use them they are gone forever correct? So after that you would loose you VIP/gold status. That is unless you have some more to transfer in. Or Maybe you can't use those points or should not.

I don't understand the benefit of paying over $1000 and wait for months to get her timeshares transfer to the trust. My point is that if you learn more about the system now, you can make a better decision whether it is necessary to transfer to trust. I assume you can get her password and play with the online system now.

You have to be very careful about the VIP Gold status. I am not sure if the status will remain after the transfer. You need to find out now before you transfer the title. If you find out that account is no longer VIP Gold after you transfer the title, it is too late to do anything and the set of timeshare would end up worth close to $0 once the status is lost.
 

SOS8260456

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PIC points - We have 3 timeshare weeks at non-Wyndham resorts. These are 3 bedroom red season units and on Wydhams charts 3 bedroom red units are worth 254,000 wyndham points.

Eash year no matter what we have to pay a small program fee for each PIC contract to Wyndham.

Each year no matter what we have to pay the annual maintenance fees to each of these 3 separate timeshare resorts. This money never goes to Wyndham.

Each year we pay to Wyndham maintenance fees on the Wyndham points that we own.

Now, each year, for each of those 3 non-Wyndham timeshares, we have to make a decision. 1. will we use it ourselves? 2. if not using ourselves, do we want to deposit into Interval International or RCI and use that week as an exchange week, or 3. do we want to give the unit to Wyndham (called PICing the unit) and Wyndham will give us what our timeshare is worth on their PIC chart. In our case, 254,000 points. There is a fee to do this. I forget if it is $89 or $69 or $109 (so many fees, I get them mixed up), but you get the general idea.

We have determined that our best use of these timeshares is to PIC them each year and that is what we do. But we can change that on a year to year basis. One year we can decide to use the unit and then the following PIC it again.

Hope this helps.
 

SOS8260456

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You have to be very careful about the VIP Gold status. I am not sure if the status will remain after the transfer. You need to find out now before you transfer the title. If you find out that account is no longer VIP Gold after you transfer the title, it is too late to do anything and the set of timeshare would end up worth close to $0 once the status is lost.

You might want to spend some time talking to title and deeding at Wyndham before transfering any titles. It also might help to have a contact there, because there is a transfer fee of $299 PER contract. Sometimes, they might wave the per contract fee and just charge one transfer fee.
 

SJHawkins

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I don't understand the benefit of paying over $1000 and wait for months to get her timeshares transfer to the trust. My point is that if you learn more about the system now, you can make a better decision whether it is necessary to transfer to trust. I assume you can get her password and play with the online system now.

You have to be very careful about the VIP Gold status. I am not sure if the status will remain after the transfer. You need to find out now before you transfer the title. If you find out that account is no longer VIP Gold after you transfer the title, it is too late to do anything and the set of timeshare would end up worth close to $0 once the status is lost.

Have the passwords for both systems, have looked at it a little.

In regards to the trust that should/needs to be done from my understanding. If my MIL passes before it gets done it will go into probate. The probate cost and time would be much more than the title transfer. This is what the estate lawyer and finace guys came up with. Is this a correct statement or not, could not tell you. How much time do we have, could not tell you that either, only god is going to know that one. After a 2nd stroke every good day is a blessing.

I will check and see if it will change the Gold status, thanks.

In 1996 when they did an estate plan everything was correct, the stuff they did after that was not, hence the issues.

Being I'm the Executor and POA, I doing my best to keep up. In the scope of things the Timeshares are really not the worst of our worries. More of a thorn at this point!

One thing to note for you current Owners, be sure you know what you are going to be doing with these things after you pass! We are thankfull they did a great estate plan and we know the wishes.

In this case the MIL has 5 deeds to deal with, kinda seems a little crazy when you look at it all.

I have bought and sold a few homes, that was easy compared to this:)
 

vacationhopeful

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Listen up!
The 2 PIC contracts are WHAT gets you GOLD VIP status. At the 60 day out from checkin at the resort, any NEW reservation you book is at 35% off the Wyndham book value of points it costs you (like IF you LOST the Gold VIP ownership level by selling or not paying your other resorts MFs). If you try to get 3 weeks into PIC, the newer WYNDHAM rules only allow 2 PICs weeks now and GOLD VIP is moving in a couple of months from 500,000 points owned to 700,000 points needed. This might be a VERY good reason to get it all into the FAMILY trust before hand (that increase in point value level).

Plus GOLD VIP status, at the 45 day day mark from checkin, gets up a FREE unit upgrade to the next size unit. So you 1bdr CAN become a 2 bdr unit ... and that includes units booked anytime BEFORE.

Gold VIP has unlimited FREE Housekeeping credits and FREE Reservation Transactions. So, weekend bookings DO NOT have these additional costs.

Gold VIP has 10 free GUEST Certificates per YEAR instead of the un-VIPs who get only 1 per year. Those are each worth online bookings $99 or call center value is $129 each ($891 or $1161). So, if you send friends/family NOT listed on the ownership paperwork (or you rent out 2 or 3 weeks yearly), this becomes very important.

Plus, YOU get the FREE daily newspaper delivered to your door. You will learn that while you do really get the paper IF you are the owner staying in the unit. But here on TUG, it is a running joke, as to how much that newspaper really costs when NEW GOLD VIPS could have spent (for 500K in points) between $85,000-100,000+ today. When it goes up to 700K for a Gold membership, the new Wyndham owner with be spending $125,000-140,000.

So for LEARNING the Wyndham system ... start by reading the Member's Directory --- also referred to as the pretty picture book of the resorts. If you don't have the most recent copy, each MEMBER Number gets ONE FREE. You can order it ONLINE if you have your mom's id number and password. READ IT - suggest with a colored highlighter.

Keep asking questions HERE or under the Wyndham threads. All of us had to learn the system at on time; you and your family can get a lot of vacations and make memories.

PS: I own a few more points than your Mom. I have PIC contracts. Right now, I am using my points to stay near my house while I have some emergency repairs being done. It is costing me $32 per midweek night for a 2bdr/2bath unit at a Wyndham resort with an indoor swimming pool, etc. I have washer/dryer, full kitchen and the last place could sleep 12 persons.

So, please, take the time to learn how Wyndham works. Your parents were VERY luckly NOT to have spent that type of money. LEARN how you can work it ....
 

massvacationer

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My advice is to listen to Linda - she knows what she is talking about.
The Wyndham point system can be great, if you learn how to use it. And GOLD VIP can add a lot of value, if you preserve it correctly during this transition.
 

SOS8260456

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I think the OP only has 2 PIC weeks and you have it mixed up with my posting about our ownership of 3.

I do know one thing, the OP really brings home the "have an exit strategy" portion of timesharing. He is only dealing with 5 deeds and it looks like only one or two different states.
 
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