'Pet Peeve' - literally!

[brockville]

Just noticed the thread about heartworm meds for dogs - and it brought up a sore point with me.

I took our 12 year old Westie for his annual check-up with the Vet. She said little Jack has gingivitis (basically bad gums and nasty teeth).The teeth need cleaning - including a pre- anesthesia blood test to make sure he can handle the drugs- an intravenous during the procedure - cleaning the teeth- and follow-up monitoring. This will cost roughly $400.

I think the irony is that this is a dental treatment for a dog!

When I told my Vet that $400 was more than some 3rd world families earn in a year - she said " I know, but this is what the market will bear".

Does this attitude seem absolutely wrong to anyone else?

 

[Gadabout]

Well, to begin with, I suppose many of them have student loans to pay off, like other people. Also, to be fair, it can't be easy dealing with animals, who can't really tell you what's wrong with them--for some things only testing will give an answer.

As to what they charge, it's up to the owner whether they want to pay that or not. If enough people refuse to pay, the prices will go down and/or the service will no longer be offered.

I know lots of people who get the rabies and other shots as required by law for their animals, and that's it. No other vet visits, and the animals live happily for many years. And no, these are not cruel people, but they don't run to the doctor for annual checkups themselves (many people never get a flu shot, either), so they're not likely to for an animal, either.

 

[TravelSFO]

Just noticed the thread about heartworm meds for dogs - and it brought up a sore point with me.

I took our 12 year old Westie for his annual check-up with the Vet. She said little Jack has gingivitis (basically bad gums and nasty teeth).The teeth need cleaning - including a pre- anesthesia blood test to make sure he can handle the drugs- an intravenous during the procedure - cleaning the teeth- and follow-up monitoring. This will cost roughly $400.

I think the irony is that this is a dental treatment for a dog!

When I told my Vet that $400 was more than some 3rd world families earn in a year - she said " I know, but this is what the market will bear".

Does this attitude seem absolutely wrong to anyone else?

The attitude seems wrong but you have other options. Try calling around and seeing what other vets charge for this procedure. Many dogs will need to go under general anesthesia for teeth cleaning or it would be impossible to clean their teeth. The anesthesia itself is very expensive. I've been meaning to take our 11-year old terrier in and have been quoted $250. Definitely ask around or see if your vet will drop the price.

 

[Keitht]

In a Free Market economy the vet is correct, and refreshingly honest about how the charges are set. Certainly check other vets for their prices, just as you would for any other product.

 

[ctreelmom]

Have you ever heard of a coyote or wolf coming in for a teeth cleaning?? They manage to eat just fine. I'm one of those who does just the shots required by law. When the vet outlines all the fancy expensive stuff I just nod and smile and comment on how far veterinary medicine has come, thank her and leave.

 

[DonM]

I think the irony is that this is a dental treatment for a dog!

I don't think it's ironic- In your opinion the cost is out of balance, and that's your choice. (I'm not a vet, but I am a dog lover, and I completely understand where you're coming from)

So, why is the cost so high to clean a dog's teeth? Why does a diamond, or any precious gem cost so much (It's just a rock that looks pretty)? The answer is supply and mostly demand.

People really really care about their pets. I spent over $1000 on a dog for an emergency exploratory surgery- when I knew there was a very good chance that the dog would die anyway- and he did. I would do it again. I'm lucky I had the money. I mean even if my dog survived- he wouldn't live forever, and his natural life would only have been for another 5-7 years anyway.

So why did I do it- because I loved that animal, and had the money. The surgery gave him a chance to live- but not at any cost. I made sure the vet knew that I didn't want him to suffer, That was more important than my needs.

Sorry for the long response, but getting back on focus- the only reason the procedure to clean the pets teeth exists is due to the demand for it. You have a choice which didn't always exist. You don't have to spend the money. There are a lot of crazy procedures for pets, and I think you have to choose your vet carefully. One that doesn't try and have you do over the top treatments for the sake of trying to extend the lives of our loved friends for the sake of monetary gain.

 

[Don]

Perhaps it's time to change vets. We went on a cruise a couple of weeks ago and boarded our dog at the vet's kennel for 10 days. She had the blood work for anesthesia and her teeth cleaned. They had to extract two teeth. The total bill was less than $300.00.

 

[Gadabout]

I think the irony is that this is a dental treatment for a dog!

When I told my Vet that $400 was more than some 3rd world families earn in a year - she said " I know, but this is what the market will bear".

Does this attitude seem absolutely wrong to anyone else?

I'm sure that practical vet was also thinking (but didn't dare to say, for fear of being seen as being non-PC): "And in that third world country, those families might well be eating this dog for dinner."

What you might want to think of doing if you have the time and inclination, is look into working at the vet's office (maybe not this one ) part-time and see if you can rate some discounts if you use these services (including boarding). I know someone who does just that because she travels frequently and gets 50% off boarding and any procedures (with 3 cats, it can mount up).

 

[Cat]

Brock, as a Westie owner, I like you already! Best breed in the world, best owners, too!! This is our second Westie. Our first lived to be 17. This one is 12.

I, too, can relate to what you're saying. It's truly annoying to know that some vets will hold your love of your pet hostage for "what the market will bear." Now of course, there's a dram of truth in that benchmark, but it should be only one of many factors in deciding a price.

A vet is a professional, not a real estate salesman. Therefore, what should be factored in is upfront costs (paying employees, rent, med cost, etc.) and a fair price for the labor skill he/she brings. To hear, "what the market will bear" sounds like this particular vet operates more like a real estate salesman and not a professional.

When they start to lay the guilts about "It's your pet's wellbeing at stake..." then I'm outta there.

Time to shop around for a new vet. At least that's what I'd do in your position.

 

[ouaifer]

I don't think it's ironic- In your opinion the cost is out of balance, and that's your choice. (I'm not a vet, but I am a dog lover, and I completely understand where you're coming from)

So, why is the cost so high to clean a dog's teeth? Why does a diamond, or any precious gem cost so much (It's just a rock that looks pretty)? The answer is supply and mostly demand.

People really really care about their pets. I spent over $1000 on a dog for an emergency exploratory surgery- when I knew there was a very good chance that the dog would die anyway- and he did. I would do it again. I'm lucky I had the money. I mean even if my dog survived- he wouldn't live forever, and his natural life would only have been for another 5-7 years anyway.

So why did I do it- because I loved that animal, and had the money. The surgery gave him a chance to live- but not at any cost. I made sure the vet knew that I didn't want him to suffer, That was more important than my needs.

Sorry for the long response, but getting back on focus- the only reason the procedure to clean the pets teeth exists is due to the demand for it. You have a choice which didn't always exist. You don't have to spend the money. There are a lot of crazy procedures for pets, and I think you have to choose your vet carefully. One that doesn't try and have you do over the top treatments for the sake of trying to extend the lives of our loved friends for the sake of monetary gain.

Aloha Don,
Vets are amazing critters ! But, just like anything else, one has to do one's homework. You really need to go out and search and research someone who will fit your own personal profile...because you are the one communicating for your animal. Common sense is the best means. There are many remedies on the market that started out for animals, were adapted for humans, and now are being used for animals again. If the Vet will talk to you, one on one, and you are comfortable with the person, you will be able to establish a trust. Just try to find the right one, so you won't have to go searching if there is an emergency. Our Vet definitely serves a great purpose in our household! And he will also give me a script for anything that I feel is too expensive, without question. For all of you canine owners out there, there is a basic book you might want to keep on hand, Dog Owner's Home Veterinary Handbook , Carlson. Also, when in doubt, Google it.

WRT dogs teeth...a couple of things. NO table scraps! A good kibble is the best food...try to avoid the canned garbage. I know we all spoil our special friends...but it actually does them more harm, than good. You also should brush your dogs teeth (with dog tooth paste) 2x per week (minimum) if deposits are forming. You can get finger brushes (puppets) that work just fine. You can also get a dental scraper and scrape all the plaque off yourself...it takes about 10 seconds to do...and you will not have the extreme bill, nor the anticipation of having the animal anesthetized. All of these things are a part of good procedural grooming practice. If you start when they're pups, great...if not, they will get used to it...just have patience.

 

[Gadabout]

A vet is a professional, not a real estate salesman. Therefore, what should be factored in is upfront costs (paying employees, rent, med cost, etc.) and a fair price for the labor skill he/she brings. To hear, "what the market will bear" sounds like this particular vet operates more like a real estate salesman and not a professional.

It's always all about business and how much money you can make, regardless of the profession one is in. This vet was perhaps a little too honest, but the OP wanted an answer. If the vet gets her price for that procedure, the free market in her area has spoken and she has set her price correctly. The customer can always vote with their feet and go to another vet, or learn how to do some of their own vet work, or decide that some of these procedures are truly not necessary for their pet to have a happy life. End of problem.

Even non-profits are out to make as much money as they can, if only to exist as a business. Yes, I know, I probably sound somewhat cynical, but that's the way it is.

 

[TravelSFO]

Have you ever heard of a coyote or wolf coming in for a teeth cleaning?? They manage to eat just fine. I'm one of those who does just the shots required by law. When the vet outlines all the fancy expensive stuff I just nod and smile and comment on how far veterinary medicine has come, thank her and leave.

If you could see our Missy's teeth, you'd understand why she needs a cleaning Keep in mind Coyote's and Wolves don't eat the same things as domesticated dogs -- nor do they live as long so their teeth don't have time to decay.

 

[Steve]

Dental work is important for dogs

Dogs need dental work, too...and it can be expensive. I recently spent $500 having my seven year old cocker spaniel's teeth cleaned. It included blood work and an IV which really helps the dog with the anesthesia. I called another vet who would clean his teeth for only about $200...but that didn't include the IV and is not as safe of a way to handle the procedure. I decided that I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I did it the cheap way and then something went wrong. Just like I would never take my child to a "cheap doctor" if I knew that better care was available. It's a personal decision. To some people, dogs are just pets. To me, my dogs are family.

While they were cleaning my dog's teeth, they took x-rays which discovered he had three absessed teeth. These had to be pulled as they are quite painful. (This is one reason it was $500 instead of the $400 estimated.) After the procedure, he clearly feels better. He had gotten so that he didn't like to fetch much and wouldn't chew on rawhide bones. Now he is playful again like he was when he was a puppy...and he will chew on rawhide. Obviously, his teeth were hurting before...but he couldn't tell me that.

So, was it worth it? Absolutely! But I realize that is a personal choice.

As for your vet's comment of "that's what the market will bear"...perhaps a more tactful bedside manner would help her in her practice. I would not have liked to have heard that remark from my vet.

Steve

 

[Big Matt]

My sister pays a fortune on her diabetic cat. She won't travel without the cat because of the shots and because most places don't take cats, she doesn't travel much any more. Personally, I wouldn't do it. The cat is old and doesn't understand that it has diabetes. My sister would never think about letting it die though. I guess that's why I don't have pets and she doesn't have kids.

 

[Gadabout]

As for your vet's comment of "that's what the market will bear"...perhaps a more tactful bedside manner would help her in her practice. I would not have liked to have heard that remark from my vet.
Steve

So if she'd said, "Well, it's pretty much the going rate for this area", would that have been any better?

I think she might perhaps have been deeply offended by the "third-world family" comment, and that's what immediately came to mind as a response. Why offended? Because the comment said that what the vet was doing was insignificant, and yet said that the OP thought it was important enough to pay a lot of money for and have done for the animal.

 

[Steve]

Gadabout,

I'm not sure of your point. All I meant was that it would have been better for the vet to not use the phrase "that's what the market will bear". This comment makes it sound like the vet is charging more than is necessary because people are willing to pay it. That is likely very honest, but not the most tactful approach.

I would much rather be told something like "the tests, and anesthesia are very expensive. You know how expensive it is when a person has a hospital stay. Fortunately, the same excellent level of care that people recieve is now available for dogs...but it is expensive. It's important to do this right so that your pet won't have any problems, and we are going to give him the very best care." That, in effect, is what my vet said to me.

Steve

 

[DonM]

Aloha Don,
WRT dogs teeth...a couple of things. NO table scraps! A good kibble is the best food...try to avoid the canned garbage. )

Aloha Evie:

I agree with almost everything you say re: dogs & Vets, with one small exception, and that's what I outlined above. I think you're right on about what to feed our friends, but this is for the general health of the dog. Dogs are carnivors, and in nature (before domestication) they would eat other small animals. They would have been using their teeth much more aggressively.

We feed them relatively soft food which has all the correct nutritional balance- which means they live longer and healthier- except that thay may need some work on their teeth especially if we don't compensate by brushing them & taking them to the vet for regular visits.

Don

 

[Gadabout]

Gadabout,

I'm not sure of your point. All I meant was that it would have been better for the vet to not use the phrase "that's what the market will bear". This comment makes it sound like the vet is charging more than is necessary because people are willing to pay it. That is likely very honest, but not the most tactful approach.

I would much rather be told something like "the tests, and anesthesia are very expensive. You know how expensive it is when a person has a hospital stay. Fortunately, the same excellent level of care that people recieve is now available for dogs...but it is expensive. It's important to do this right so that your pet won't have any problems, and we are going to give him the very best care." That, in effect, is what my vet said to me.

Steve

My point was that both the OP's and the vet's comments were flippant (unintentionally on both sides, I'm sure).

If the OP had said, "Oh gee, that's expensive, how come?", I'm sure there would have been a response more along the lines of what you posted (and whether even that response was believed or not is a different matter).

But it all gets down to people having preconceived notions of what things should cost, or what people should earn in salary or payment for services rendered. One example is daycare--people whine to high heaven about how much it costs, but don't want to be a stay-at-home-parent, even if someone were to do the math for them and show them they're actually losing money going to work outside the home because of daycare and other work-related expenses.

I'd rather pay extra to a vet when I needed to than pay to go to some pro sports event. But that's me.

 

[Kozman]

Vet Charges

I routinely groom, trim nails and clean teeth for my girlfriend's two little ankle biters. I have very little problem doing their teeth after they resolve that fighting in fruitless!

On a recent trip to the vets they added a $95 for teeth cleaning before they even examined the dogs. The charge was removed when we protested since their teeth were already clean. They didn't even look before adding the charge.

 

[timetraveler]

I posted earlier that I have my shar pei's teeth cleaned once per year. I have always had my animals teeth cleaned. Gum disease in dogs and cats, can and does lead to the same serious medical problems that humans get, who ignore taking care of their teeth and gums.

And some breeds require more expensive meds than others. For example breeds that are prone to kidney issues, and geriatric pets. My dog is prone to kidney problems by nature of the breed, knowing that, I always insist on IV fluids to support the kidneys during any anesthesia, and they are given a more costly sleeping agent, basically the same thing we humans get.

My first shar pei lived to be 16 and when he did die, he had all of his teeth. In human years.....he was one old fella.

Everyone has their own opinion of "what their pet is worth", and that's fine. Some of us supply the same medical care for pets that we would for a human family member, others consider the animal to be "just a pet", and place much less emotional value on them.

I don't think anyone here is trying to imply that one type is a better person than another, or at least I sincerely hope not. People just have different priorities, that's all.

 

[Sandy]

Very interesting thread.

I also had to consider the options for a cleaning of teeth for an elderly dog. I have not yet decided, and the cost was about the $350-450 range, as I recall.

Unfortunately, I had no idea to do this all the while the dog was growing up. But it makes sense: dogs teeth rot just like ours and cause gum disease and its corresponding horrors. Bingo (YES, that is his name, my son named him when he (the son) was only 3 years old!) has horrible breath.

Is there something I can do myself, short of the anasthesia and high costs? I think the doggie brushes and finger puppets are well past due, so that these are not appropriate for Bingo now. His teeth are Old dog teeth, with much plaque. But funny thing is: I never recall doing any of this for any other dog I have ever owned or that I grew up with. Oh my how things have changed.

!!!