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PayPal: Safe for Sellers??

SchillingFamily

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Hi Everyone,
Our family inherited a timeshare that has so many weeks of vacation involved that we can't possibly use it or afford the maintenance fees, so we decided to sell it. First off, thanks for all of the good information here! I haven't said much, but have definitely been reading a whole bunch, and learned a lot already.

I listed it on ebay, and have gotten a question from a possible buyer who wants to use PayPal. From what I've read here, I'm inclined to say no... escrow only, but wanted to see if I was maybe being too careful. My concern with PayPal is that in the past, I had someone pay for a non-TS item with a confirmed address, and still managed to use a stolen card and file a chargeback after the item had shipped. PayPal didn't do anything at all and refused to answer my questions. I lost the $$ and the item. So I'm scared to use it now... any thoughts? It seems that there's no seller protection at all with timeshares... Is it a normal method of payment for resale?

Thanks!
 

DeniseM

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You are smart to check out all your options, but using paypal and using escrow aren't mutually exclusive. The buyer can use paypal to make their payment to an escrow/closing company that accepts paypal.
 

davhu1

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I sold one one my timeshare and used paypal. Ask the buyer for a copy of the driver licence. Verify buyer's name and address are the same provided for the contract and the paypal account.
 

theo

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My $0.02 worth...

....a possible buyer who wants to use PayPal.

Greetings, fellow Yankees (...and I don't mean a NY baseball team):

I have no use for PayPal, personally. My advice would be to insist upon the utilization of a disinterested, third party, professional closing company (for the record I do not represent one nor do I have affiliation with any; this input is objective). Even if you have to pay for the closing services yourself (generally somewhere in the ballpark of $300) you'll have someone else "watching your back", verifying payment validity, preparing and recording a new deed and handling all the monetary matters and escrow. Let the closing company deal with the money and the deed preparation and recording --- your time has value too! Personally, I would promptly and summarily reject any mention of "PayPal", but that's just me....YMMV.
 
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SchillingFamily

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My advice would be to insist upon the utilization of a disinterested, third party, professional closing company

That's exactly what I suspected... PayPal seems way too big, faceless, and full of fraud potential for a TS sale... I'm going to stick with my instincts and insist on using a closing company, with escrow.

Thanks!
 

bogey21

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My experience with PayPal is that they tend to favor the purchaser and that it is almost impossible to get through to anyone on the telephone. They force you into their resolution plan on the internet. My advice is to use PayPal to settle small items only

George
 

donnaval

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Sellers definitely assume a lot of risk by accepting PayPal. The big problem is, as of October 20, Ebay implemented the mandatory "Safe Payments Policy" which requires a seller to offer PayPal or credit card as an option. If someone decides to report your listing for not accepting PayPal, Ebay could cancel it. If someone bids on your listing and then later backs out because you refuse to accept PayPal, Ebay will back them up. Since the timeshare is in the real estate category, you are still "permitted" to accept payment by check but you still must accept PayPal if the buyer wants to pay that way. It is getting more challenging every day to sell on Ebay!

Here is the policy:

Accepted Payments Policy

eBay wants to help ensure that the marketplace offers buyers safer online payment choices.

Enforcement grace period for sellers: Starting October 20, 2008 only permitted payment methods will be displayed in the payment details section of listings. Sellers will need to remove all references to non-permitted payment methods from item descriptions. We know that this is a busy time of year for sellers, so to allow sufficient time to change templates, we will wait until January 15, 2009 before we begin taking action against sellers soliciting non-permitted payment methods within the item description of listings.

Permitted on eBay.com:

Sellers must offer to accept one or more of the following payment choices:

* PayPal
* Credit or debit card processed through an Internet merchant account
* ProPay

Sellers may in addition offer to accept:

* Payment upon pickup

For specific categories, sellers may also offer to accept:

* Bank-to-bank transfers (also known as bank wire transfers and bank cash transfers)
* Checks
* Money orders
* Any of the following online payment services: Allpay.net, cash2india, CertaPay, Checkfree.com, hyperwallet.com, Moneybookers.com, Nochex.com, Ozpay.biz, Paymate.com.au, XOOM

These payment choices may be offered only for items in the following categories:

* Motors > Cars & Trucks
* Motors > Motorcycles
* Motors > Powersports
* Motors > Boats
* Motors > Other Vehicles & Trailers
* Business & Industrial > Agriculture & Forestry > Tractors & Farm Machinery
* Business & Industrial > Construction > Heavy Equipment, Trailers
* Business & Industrial > Food Service & Retail > Concession Trailers & Carts
* Business & Industrial > Healthcare, Lab & Life Science > Imaging & Aesthetics Equipment
* Business & Industrial > Industrial Supply, MRO > Fork Lifts & Other Lifts
* Business & Industrial > Manufacturing & Metalworking > Manufacturing Equipment
* Business & Industrial > Manufacturing & Metalworking > Metalworking Equipment
* Business & Industrial > Office, Printing & Shipping > Commercial Printing Presses
* Real Estate
* Adult Only

Not permitted on eBay.com

Sellers may not solicit:

* Buyers to mail cash.
* Buyers to send cash or money orders through instant cash transfer services (non-bank, point-to-point cash transfers) such as Western Union or MoneyGram.
* Buyers to mail checks or money orders (except for items in categories specifically permitted above)
* Payment through bank-to-bank transfers (except for items in categories specifically permitted above)
* Payment through "topping off" of a seller's pre-paid credit or debit card.
* Payment through online payment methods not specifically permitted in this policy.
* Payment through payment methods not listed in this policy.

Misleading & Discouraging Payments

Sellers must clearly state the payment methods that they accept and may not include generalized statements soliciting buyers to contact them for additional payment methods.

Sellers who state in their listing that they accept certain payment methods must not selectively offer those payment methods to buyers or discourage buyers from using those payment methods.

This means that sellers must always accept payment from buyers through the payment methods they have selected in their Payment Details section of their listing, including PayPal, and must not act in any way to discourage buyers from paying by these methods.

This policy is not only limited to communications made in listings, but also includes all correspondence between a seller and buyer that relates to an eBay transaction.

Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions including:

* Listing cancellation
* Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings
* Limits on account privileges
* Loss of PowerSeller status
* Account suspension
 
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DeniseM

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I have use Paypal many times, as a buyer, seller, and renter, and rentee. I haven't had any problems with it. However, I will not make a payent directly to a seller. I haven't had any problem making a Paypal payment to an escrow/closing company. In fact, I just made one a few minutes ago.
 

TSTex02

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PayPal and Closing Company Not Mutually Exclusive

Denise is correct. Use of PayPal and the use of a closing company can both be done on the same transaction. Just use a closing company that accepts PayPal as a payment method. The PayPal transaction is then between the Buyer and the Closing Company, without involving the Seller. The Seller then gets payment from the Closing Company in their own acceptable form of payment. Looks like a Win-Win situation - The Buyer can use PayPal and the Seller gets the protections of a Closing Company.

BTW: I have been buying and selling on eBay (Non TS items) for several years and have never had a bad experience with PayPal. I cannot say the same about personal checks and cashier checks. Personally I see PayPal as safe for both Buyer and Seller.
 

Carolinian

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That's exactly what I suspected... PayPal seems way too big, faceless, and full of fraud potential for a TS sale... I'm going to stick with my instincts and insist on using a closing company, with escrow.

Thanks!

Many of these closing companies are sloppy. It is better to find one that is licensed in the state where the timeshare is located, or to use an attorney licensed in that state. Resort managment can probably refer you to someone in that state who is qualified and handles timeshare closings. Using someone from a state other than where the timeshare is located in a risky proposition.

And as to PayPal, you might want to consult this site: www.paypalsucks.com
 

Carolinian

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My experience with PayPal is that they tend to favor the purchaser and that it is almost impossible to get through to anyone on the telephone. They force you into their resolution plan on the internet. My advice is to use PayPal to settle small items only

George

Their process to challenge a payment is mindlessly bureaucratic and annoying. When I had a purchase that failed to ship, it was not worth the time and aggravation to use their process to challenge the transaction. I did so but would never do so again on a small purchase. Better to lose the money than jump through all the hoops and aggravation those PayPal jerks put you through.
 

AnnaO

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PayPal has changed a lot since its early days

Their process to challenge a payment is mindlessly bureaucratic and annoying. When I had a purchase that failed to ship, it was not worth the time and aggravation to use their process to challenge the transaction. I did so but would never do so again on a small purchase. Better to lose the money than jump through all the hoops and aggravation those PayPal jerks put you through.

And the change was not for better. As for protection, regardsless if it's buyer or seller, it's totally worthless and just appearances. They let you set up a dispute on line, but that's just for show. They don't back you up like a credit card would. Don't count on any protection.

And as for eBay requirement that seller must offer PayPal? Guess who owns PayPal now? eBay.
 

Dave H

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paypal

the problem with paypal and credit cards in general is several things. From my side as a closing agent. First, the credit card can be reversed. Now that is not much of a problem when some of these companies take 3 or 4 months to get the documents out and recorded, but if you are working with a closing company working on faster turn times, it is a problem.

Right now my average turn time is 30-45 days IF everyone gets me the documents back quickly. I am usually recorded before the 60 days for dispute are up.

Mr. or Mrs. Nice buyer watch the public records, see the deed is recorded and then call the credit card company or paypal and say they did not authorize the transaction. They reverse it and chargeback the merchant, me as the title company.

Buyer now has a deed, I just bounced a bunch of checks as we know escrow is dollar in dollar out, seller is ticked off, they do not have the deed anymore, and the poor closing company has to make good on the checks they wrote.

The other problem with the credit cards and paypal from a closing company side, remember many of these closing companies are owned by the PCC so they have bucks laying around from the fee for we will take this off your hands and the ebay sale, is credit card acceptance costs the merchant anywhere from 2.3 to 5% depending on the card.

Again, a true closing company/title company works on a dollar in and a dollar out, if the closing company is getting 95 to 97 cents in, there is no way it can send a dollar out.

The closing company can either tack on the surcharge, frowned on by the merchant processing company or eat the fee. I have seen people want to use the credit card for purchases that the fee exceeds my closing fee... so that would not work.

I will say, we have taken credit cards for clients, we work out the above scenerio ahead of time. But those are some issues in taking a credit card or paypal if your selling or dealing with a closing company.

Dave
 

CarolF

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And as to PayPal, you might want to consult this site: www.paypalsucks.com

Tried to check this site and got the following message from my AVG Anti-virus programme:

Danger: AVG Search-Shield has detected active threats on this page and has blocked access for your protection.
The page you are trying to access has been identified as a known exploit, phishing, or social engineering web site and therefore has been blocked for your safety. Without protection, such as that in the AVG Security Toolbar and AVG, your computer is at risk of being compromised, corrupted or having your identity stolen. Please follow one of the suggestions below to continue.
 
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