PAHIO/Wyndham, no news yet?

[rickandcindy23]

I cannot believe PAHIO owners still do not know our fate within the Wyndham system.

99.9999% of owners have no idea this is happening because only TUG members who happen to own PAHIO have any knowledge. The last newsletter did not contain even a hint that PAHIO is going to be part of that company. Of course, I would love to become part of Worldmark and hope that is the direction this takes, but any other brandname under the Wyndham umbrella is not going to make me happy.

We heard information that PAHIO (maybe just Bali Hai?) resorts will become (a) flagship resort(s) for Wyndham Vacation Club. I don't want a whole new system, I want to be part of something that is great and is already working well.

I called PAHIO yesterday and was told that an announcement is forthcoming from PAHIO. I asked when and was told "soon." Soon? How soon ? Rick and I are in the process of purchasing a fourth week, the paperwork is sitting on our table, waiting for our signatures, and I am ready to let our earnest money deposit go at this point. I don't want to buy a pig in a poke. I really feel sorry for people who are buying Bali Hai weeks from the developer right now! I wonder what they are telling the new buyers?

Has anyone been on a timeshare presentation at PAHIO recently? We attended one early July while staying at Shearwater and no news then.

 

[Bill4728]

Will PAHIO become part of FF? Maybe. At least they are something alike. Deed based TS, part of a greater group ect. Also FF has the new crown jewel at the Waikiki beach walk.

Will PAHIO become part of Worldmark? I don't think so. They are so completely different from one another. WM is almost completely point based (some fractionals in WM are deeded) and I think that blending them together will be a nightmare.

Comments?

 

[chellej]

I went to the presentation in October. I don't think our sales rep had a grasp of what was going to happen. I asked about internal exchanges and relationship with fairfield , etc. and never got a definitive answer. She stated that there would be a relationship with Fairfield & worldmark but the only thing she could state for sure was that the "wyndhams" would be the top of the food chain - so to speak.

SHe also said that the pricing would increase 70% once Wyndam was rolling.

The plans for the new ammenities including pool & resturant at Bali Hai looked very nice.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I don't think I want to be part of Fairfield. I just don't see how that would benefit us, in our situation, with our ownerships.

Did they say anything about the other PAHIOs, like Shearwater?

Chellej, was your salesperson a young woman named Mary, by any chance? She was the only woman we saw in a sea of men around the room.

I really liked her in July. She had no idea we were going to be her victims and we watched her from afar, running around, cleaning the table and such, while she mumbled to herself. We decided she was new because she was reciting the things she was supposed to say. It was funny. She was a very young and naive woman. When she saw us sit down at the table, after we stood right there for that little while, she was obviously embarrassed when she realized she was talking aloud. It endeared me to her immediately. My mother-in-law also thought she was adorable. She was our oldest son's age--29.

 

[somerville]

I hope you don't end up like Equivest, a stepchild of Wyndham. I looked online at Wyndham's investor brochure. They don't even claim Equivest as one of their brands.

 

[jacknsara]

Aloha
Did you buy with a primary intent to use or trade?
I'm guessing you are buying an unconverted week since my recollection of info on TUG is that PAHIO never allowed resale of a points conversion - the new buyer has to pay another conversion fee. If correct and you bought to use, then any concern should be long term.
We own weeks. We mostly use our weeks although timing of recent acquisitions have resulted in two spacebanks in two years. Our long range concern focuses on management issues related to developer dominance of the HOA (actually IOA). The previous culture of PAHIO management was very aloha oriented with no apology for rapidly raising MFs. Now that we own ocean front units, it will take several years before the rising MFs exceed the equivalent rent in Jan/Feb.
I did a spreadsheet analysis of the last 6 or 8 years at KBV and found that the timeshare fees (separate from the KBV condo commons fees) were rising rapidly even when the condo commons fees were nearly flat. The developer gets 15% of the whatever the timeshare fees are, so they have a strong incentive to escalate timeshare costs related to reservations and interior maintenance. They also control the PAHIO reservation system and all the resorts have to pay whatever they say it costs.
Anyway, given future remote (non Hawaiian/local) management, I am concerned that board policies may lower either/both the aloha spirit and current owners' perception of value. The why's are somewhat hypothetical and a potential subject for a future thread.
Jack

 

[rickandcindy23]

We own three-and-a-half weeks with PAHIO, or at least we will own that many when the Shearwater's closing is final. We own a three-bedroom annual week, a two-bedroom annual week and a one-bedroom EOY odd, all at Bali Hai. All resales, of course.

I am not happy with the way things are looking right now and am hoping for some definitive answers from PAHIO, but months have gone by and no news about how this will affect us.

I don't want to be another one of the many Fairfield resorts but see that possibility on the horizon. After all, Fairfield has absolutely no presence on Kauai and this would be a real feather in their cap. I want to feel that our value is still going to be there and that we will not have to compete with Fairfield members for the better weeks and views.

If being a part of Worldmark is possible at all, Rick and I would go for that, if they offered it up as an option for low cost. That sounds like a non-option.

PAHIO has had huge increases. I keep wondering when they level out, but they just don't. What really gripes me is the number of people renting Bali Hai weeks on redweek and other websites for less than maintenance costs with exact dates, mostly less than two months away. They are renting out RCI exchanges. That cheapens what we own. If I have my owned unit up for rent, I have to wait until those weeks disappear before I can rent mine. My price looks really high next to a week for $800, which is less than our $822 fees for the year. :annoyed:

 

[ragtop]

No doubt PAHIO MFs have gone up fast but I think the level of service has kept pace. And the Hawaii cost structure has risen rapidly and uncontrollably too. I, for one, always have felt we get what we pay for at our PAHIO resorts.

Now the rumors are that PAHIO resort management will become part of Fairfield resort management. If our Kauai management team is answerable to some cost-cutting people in Orlando who don't understand the PAHIO ohana, we may be in for a let-down.

 

[BocaBum99]

Cindy,

I think that Pahio could be the nucleus of a brand new Wyndham Vacation Club point system that competes with HGVC, Hyatt, and Starwood. That is their real competition long term.

It is very possible that Fairfield and WorldMark owners will get access to some of the Pahio inventory, but not all of it. Both WM and FF have units they share. The Pahio resorts could be treated the same way.

 

[ajsmithtx]

No doubt PAHIO MFs have gone up fast but I think the level of service has kept pace. And the Hawaii cost structure has risen rapidly and uncontrollably too. I, for one, always have felt we get what we pay for at our PAHIO resorts.

Now the rumors are that PAHIO resort management will become part of Fairfield resort management. If our Kauai management team is answerable to some cost-cutting people in Orlando who don't understand the PAHIO ohana, we may be in for a let-down.

Ragtop

I agree with you 100%.

 

[rifleman69]

PAHIO has had huge increases. I keep wondering when they level out, but they just don't. What really gripes me is the number of people renting Bali Hai weeks on redweek and other websites for less than maintenance costs with exact dates, mostly less than two months away. They are renting out RCI exchanges. That cheapens what we own. If I have my owned unit up for rent, I have to wait until those weeks disappear before I can rent mine. My price looks really high next to a week for $800, which is less than our $822 fees for the year. :annoyed:

You'll always be competing with those people who want to get something out of the weeks they can't use or give away their weeks for one reason or another.

I still don't think PAHIO will be a part of Fairfield, but the level of service will go down (and prices up) guaranteed. What we don't know is to what extent.

 

["Roger"]

Obviously, never say never, but I just don't see how they could merge Pahio into Fairfield. At Pahio, you have points owners and non-point owners. At Fairfield, you have different levels of point owners plus some old time, non point owners. It would be very difficult to merge the two.

It would be much easier to start from scratch and have the Pahio resorts as the flagship resorts for a new Wyndham Vacation Club ala (as Boca suggests) Hyatt or HGVC. Wyndham was going to start just such a club several years ago with a set of Caribbean and Florida resorts, but the plan failed to get off the ground. This could be their second try, but instead of starting from scratch, starting with a set of resorts.

 

[ragtop]

There must be some interesting conversations going on within Wyndham. If you upgrade PAHIO owners to a new points-based product like Fairfield, you take business away from RCI. Which approach builds the most value (ie moves the stock price) for the Wyndham shareholders??

 

[LLW]

Will PAHIO become part of Worldmark? I don't think so. They are so completely different from one another. WM is almost completely point based (some fractionals in WM are deeded) and I think that blending them together will be a nightmare.

Comments?

WM is completely point-based. The fractionals are a Trendwest product - they are not WM. Fractional owners can turn their weeks into WM for points, if they are WM owners. WM and FF also have limited access to some of each other's resorts.