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Owner Update/Sales Presentation May 2021

giowop

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Or also known as, "Surprisingly Not Awful."

SHORT STORY: Wife and I had a sort-of presentation today, got $100 in Visa prepaid cards, was offered a buyback of our two resale deeds (declined) and were done in just over an hour!

LONG STORY: I was called before our arrival at Kings' Land last week by HGV to do a "Club Ownership Presentation." Incentives offered to attend were ONE of the following: $100 Visa Debit Card; 40k Hilton Honors points; or $250 applied to maintenance fees (we chose this).

Fast forward to our appointment today - wife and I met with Bryan Goldsmith and about 4 minutes into the schpiel, I ask to confirm about the incentive we were offered. He is puzzled and says there aren't incentives available because we are on a VIP (Vacation Introductory Program). We inform him we are NOT on a VIP trip, and that I had accepted this meeting under the premise of the $250 MF Incentive. He steps out apologetically to see his manager. To be honest, at this point I'm expecting the worst and am seeking all the possible exit routes like Jason Bourne.

Manager returns and apologizes, saying the marketing department messed up, resale owners aren't eligible for MF credit, but surprisingly offers the $100 Visa card to make up for our wasted time (which at this point was all of 20 minutes). We accept, manager leaves, and Bryan stays to talk a bit. He casually (giggle) mentions that we would be eligible for a "one-time only offer" (again, giggle) to buy back our resale deeds. I'm of course willing to listen because why not. Here were the specifics:

+ We currently own two 3400 Gold deeds at Boulevard; one is Annual, the other is EOY Even. MF's are $647 or about $0.19/point.
+ HGVC buys back both deeds and credit us for what the original owners of the deeds paid, a combined $28,890
+ We buy a 7000 pt platinum 2-bedroom with MF's of $1352 or $0.193/pt (similar ratio to what we have)
+ Final price after discounts would be $11,090 plus around $1200 closing fees. 5000 bonus points offered as well.

We of course declined. But the offer was certainly less OUTRAGEOUS than I have come to expect! Here are my thoughts/observations to which I welcome any reactions:

* Bryan was considerate and not pushy. The sales manager was apologetic, which we also did not expect. Perhaps that was all part of the "Goodwill Games" to get us to play ball. Joke's on them if that was the case!
* We did ask if the $11,090 had wiggle room and he said no.
* I asked Bryan about Maui status (no new info other than hopefully Q1 of 2022) and future expansion at Kings' Land - he was super vague but kept trumpeting the Diamond acquisition.
* While I was surprised that they offered to buy back our resales, I later realized it was a smart play on their part. They get a mildly inflated payment from me on this sale, only to have the other deeds available to GROSSLY inflate for the next victim/customer.
* Had the annual points been higher or the MF's lower, we might have been more tempted. But I'm sure the buy-in cost would have jumped quickly had that been the case.
* It was tempting for us to dump the 2 smaller deeds and get one big one with more points. Eventually we will. I know these 3400-pt things will be worth nothing when we try to ditch them. But we paid a TOTAL of $260 for both with free closing costs and free 2020 points for each of them. We've already gotten more than our use out of them.

Side note: in the pool later, I talked to a family that was on their first Kings' Land visit. Mom was having a really tough time enjoying the trip because she got snookered by the Bonus points, etc. They paid $20,000 for their 3400-pt annual deed. She found out about resale market after it was too late. So, I am prompted again to say THANK YOU TO TUG AND ITS MEMBERS for helping me save tens of thousands of dollars and hours of agony over a bad decision!
 

BingoBangoBongo

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We have two resale deeds (7000 points annual and 12,600 EOY) and we’re presented a similar offer in SC in April. The original owners paid over $80,000 combined and they would apply that to new deeds and the premise was to get us to Elite which I see very little value in at this point. I like the fact that they are offering to apply the original $ to a new purchase as we paid $10,000 combined. Other than buying a small bHC deed thru this type of offer I’m not sure another scenario that I would change to as our MF’s are around .12/pt.
 
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GT75

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Incentives offered to attend were ONE of the following: $100 Visa Debit Card; 40k Hilton Honors points; or $250 applied to maintenance fees (we chose this)
Thanks for the update. I wouldn't attend an "owners update" aka "sales presentation" for the first two items offered but I would for the last one.
 

phil1ben

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I just bought resale for my son a 7000 point 2-bedroom annual Platinum package at the Boulevard for $2,500 plus closing costs.
 

SmithOp

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Its been my experience that the presentations in Hawaii have been low key and friendly, the sales staff are more relaxed and genuine. Why not, they live in Hawaii?!
 

brp

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Its been my experience that the presentations in Hawaii have been low key and friendly, the sales staff are more relaxed and genuine. Why not, they live in Hawaii?!
With one exception, we've found NYC to be like this as well (surprisingly). And the last couple have featured no un-truths- either in our talk or others that I overheard. All truth, even if overplayed a bit.

And, best of all 15-30 minutes and $200 Elevated Dollars. We even got the award in advance so could start using it even before our visit.

Cheers.
 

topdog

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Thanks for the story. I still have a Bay Club unit and not really feeling a whole lot of excitement about either Maui or Diamond resorts. We will see.
 
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+ We currently own two 3400 Gold deeds at Boulevard; one is Annual, the other is EOY Even. MF's are $647 or about $0.19/point.
+ HGVC buys back both deeds and credit us for what the original owners of the deeds paid, a combined $28,890
+ We buy a 7000 pt platinum 2-bedroom with MF's of $1352 or $0.193/pt (similar ratio to what we have)
+ Final price after discounts would be $11,090 plus around $1200 closing fees. 5000 bonus points offered as well.
This is actually a pretty decent offer, considering previous HGVC buyback offers have been insane ripoffs

I would have countered $7,500 and you have a deal as no matter what a single 2 bedroom platinum Hawaii week is much more desirable than two las vegas gold weeks and that would be a win for both parties. Even up to $10k would have been a reasonable deal.
 

giowop

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This is actually a pretty decent offer, considering previous HGVC buyback offers have been insane ripoffs

I would have countered $7,500 and you have a deal as no matter what a single 2 bedroom platinum Hawaii week is much more desirable than two las vegas gold weeks and that would be a win for both parties. Even up to $10k would have been a reasonable deal.
It honestly caught me off guard. I was not prepared to actually CONSIDER anything they offered. The better resale value was certainly enticing.


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BingoBangoBongo

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It honestly caught me off guard. I was not prepared to actually CONSIDER anything they offered. The better resale value was certainly enticing.
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If you don’t need a 2BR Deed you could probably find a 7000 point 1BR Platinum with much lower MF’s for $7500 (including closing costs) and just try to dump the 3400 pt deeds back to HGVC thru ROFR.
 

giowop

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If you don’t need a 2BR Deed you could probably find a 7000 point 1BR Platinum with much lower MF’s for $7500 (including closing costs) and just try to dump the 3400 pt deeds back to HGVC thru ROFR.
Okay explain the “dump the deed back through ROFR” concept...


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tombanjo

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I think they mean if you try and sell it for a very low price, either someone will buy it and own it, or HGVC will exercise their right and take it. Either way, it's out of your hands pretty quickly. My assumption on this though.
 

tombanjo

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I do have a question though - any tax implications of selling your resale brought properties back at retail prices ? Do you need to pay capital gains on that ?
 

BingoBangoBongo

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Okay explain the “dump the deed back through ROFR” concept...


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@tombanjo nailed it. You don’t have a lot invested in it, so sell it for $1 and either it goes through or they take it back thru ROFR. It really comes down to how long your timeframe of using it is and how many points you want.
 

brp

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I do have a question though - any tax implications of selling your resale brought properties back at retail prices ? Do you need to pay capital gains on that ?
I don't think that "resale" and "retail" makes a difference. All that should matter is whether it was a profit (where taxes are due) or a loss (where a deduction is not allowed, AFAIK :)).

Cheers.
 

Eric B

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I do have a question though - any tax implications of selling your resale brought properties back at retail prices ? Do you need to pay capital gains on that ?
I don't think that "resale" and "retail" makes a difference. All that should matter is whether it was a profit (where taxes are due) or a loss (where a deduction is not allowed, AFAIK :)).

Cheers.
If they aren't actually paying you for the old properties traded in, I wouldn't expect having to need to recognize capital gains. It sounds more like it's structured as a reduction in the purchase cost of the replacement ownership.
 

tombanjo

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Thanks. I wouldn’t want to agree to a deal and find that I owe $50,000 tax on a deal that out of pocket was a small fraction of the “retail” price
 

Fried_shrimp

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Its been my experience that the presentations in Hawaii have been low key and friendly, the sales staff are more relaxed and genuine. Why not, they live in Hawaii?!
Haha.....wait till you do a presentation at the KBC in Maui. ;)
 

SmithOp

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Haha.....wait till you do a presentation at the KBC in Maui. ;)
Yes, I should qualify that statement as HGV presentation. I learned from TUG never to take a DRI offer, even though I have stayed at several locations including KBC.
 

Nowaker

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If you don’t need a 2BR Deed you could probably find a 7000 point 1BR Platinum with much lower MF’s for $7500 (including closing costs) and just try to dump the 3400 pt deeds back to HGVC thru ROFR.
Blvd 3400 EOY passed ROFR for $1. So did Elara 1BR Grand Gold, and Trump Studio Platinum. So nope, you won't dump it. All you'll dump is your $79 for the estoppel fee, lol.
 

escanoe

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I suspect this is right, but just because something happens once or twice does not mean that is always how it plays out.

The time of the year and whether or not a pandemic is going on could be a couple of many factors that may be involved.

Blvd 3400 EOY passed ROFR for $1. So did Elara 1BR Grand Gold, and Trump Studio Platinum. So nope, you won't dump it. All you'll dump is your $79 for the estoppel fee, lol.
 
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