Our Offer was Accepted --- Now I need some Help & Hints for a Home Makover

[Panina]

Joe,

The mold inspector just finished and he found that mold is in one of the bathrooms as well due to the attic on the other side of the house.

the whole attic space has mold due to lack of ventilation. the soffit vents are blocked by insulation. All of the installation needs to be ripped out and he said it would be a two step process, hire a siding company to remove the soffits and the insulation and then hire him to remove the mold. He stated there was not proper air coming into the attic or the bathroom area.

The listing agent said they don’t want to lose us as buyers and they are willing to do whatever it takes to make the house healthy and safe.

I’m leaning now towards out of the deal. While I was out there I talked to the next door neighbor who had the same issue and is fixing her soffits now and getting all new siding on the house. She told me it’s just part of living on the lake that extra moisture gets in and you have to be ever diligent and I do not believe the owners maintained the house very well and that’s what’s causing all these issues.
Ugh, I’m so depressed as I feel like this house will turn into a money pit and we still have to sell our house.

Any input from all of you will be most appreciated

I would ask the inspector which companies he trusts and at minimum if they use a different company pay someone to be there to inspect the work to make sure it is properly done and then hire the inspector again. Make sure you still can get out of the deal if the work is not done properly.

Any older home you buy will have issues, some unknown, whether needing renovation or not. You have to be prepared for the risk. The question you have ask yourself is it worth it being you will retire in 7-8 years and be moving? Where not optimum a nice condo or rental might be a better option for you.

 

[Sugarcubesea]

Sounds like they are doing the work needed to address the mold issues. i'd be fretting but moving forward. But I don't understand roofing that only has a ten year life. Maybe that is the norm where it snows in winter?

The inspector gave the roof life as a worst case scenario. He said he could last much longer but he always likes to worst case so the homeowner is prepared.

 

[VacationForever]

Joe,

The mold inspector just finished and he found that mold is in one of the bathrooms as well due to the attic on the other side of the house.

the whole attic space has mold due to lack of ventilation. the soffit vents are blocked by insulation. All of the installation needs to be ripped out and he said it would be a two step process, hire a siding company to remove the soffits and the insulation and then hire him to remove the mold. He stated there was not proper air coming into the attic or the bathroom area.

The listing agent said they don’t want to lose us as buyers and they are willing to do whatever it takes to make the house healthy and safe.

I’m leaning now towards out of the deal. While I was out there I talked to the next door neighbor who had the same issue and is fixing her soffits now and getting all new siding on the house. She told me it’s just part of living on the lake that extra moisture gets in and you have to be ever diligent and I do not believe the owners maintained the house very well and that’s what’s causing all these issues.
Ugh, I’m so depressed as I feel like this house will turn into a money pit and we still have to sell our house.

Any input from all of you will be most appreciated

If it were me, I would walk. I did a MLS search for homes around where you are buying. There are some new builds, although not on the lake. I did see this listing which you have made the offer on, and new homes don't cost very much more. Have you considered buying a new home instead?

 

[Sugarcubesea]

If it were me, I would walk. I did a MLS search for homes around where you are buying. There are some new builds, although not on the lake. I did see this listing which you have made the offer on, and new homes don't cost very much more. Have you considered buying a new home instead?

All of the new homes that are ranch’s are about $150K more, because you also have to pay for the lot. We had priced one out, but the builders are only releasing 2 or 3 lots at a time due the cost of construction going up constantly.

I’m leaning towards walking. Hubby really wants this house if the sellers do all of the stuff we ask of them to get this issue resolved.

 

[Chrispee]

I hate to be another “no” vote but I would walk away. There are very few things that would stop me from buying a house at the right price, but a significant mold problem like this is one. We bought our current house with an undiagnosed septic system problem and a condemned 800sqft deck so my tolerance for risk is fairly high.

Whatever your decision in the end, best of luck!

 

[louisianab]

Sounds like they are doing the work needed to address the mold issues. i'd be fretting but moving forward. But I don't understand roofing that only has a ten year life. Maybe that is the norm where it snows in winter?

I know the answer to this! The more layers of shingles, the shorter the life span. (I'm in Michigan so this might be weather specific). We had 3 layers of shingles and did replacement last year. They will not allow more than 3 layers. Our new, down to the new sheeting and whatever has a 30 year span. The layers were 1972, 1995 and 2008. We bought our house from my Grandpa, who was the original owner, so we know all the timelines.

 

[elaine]

You won’t truly know if the mold/water/humidity problem is relieved by the time you purchase. Anyone can “get rid” of mold with a magic Clorox mixture. It’s remediation if the issues that allowed it to grow that’s key. Given other areas of mold and water leaks, I’d need to put a scope thru parts of the walls to check for mold/water intrusion, etc.
I’d also walk away. Imho $150k extra for new build might be worth it if you’re set in this area and this is a dream of your husband and you can afford it. If not, it could be ok or a big headache. Find out how long the mold company warrants no mold issues.
we walked from a house that had synthetic stucco with some water intrusion issues. The remediation company warranty was for only 90 days-really? I’d want warranty for a minimum of 2 years.
Plus you likely have to disclose prior known mold issues when you sell. That might scare away a lot of buyers imho.

 

[VacationForever]

All of the new homes that are ranch’s are about $150K more, because you also have to pay for the lot. We had priced one out, but the builders are only releasing 2 or 3 lots at a time due the cost of construction going up constantly.

I’m leaning towards walking. Hubby really wants this house if the sellers do all of the stuff we ask of them to get this issue resolved.

Is it important to be ranch style? I believe ranch style is what used to be popular in the 70s. A new home will be much easier to sell down the road.

 

[Snazzylass]

Is it important to be ranch style? I believe ranch style is what used to be popular in the 70s. A new home will be much easier to sell down the road.

Not Necessarily. These little cottages at waters edge in the Midwest are wildly popular. It's so peaceful and friendly. Most are vacation homes. So, they are always in demand. They are often handed down to the next generation, and then rebuilt.

On the other hand, the sellers have a condition issue. It might be bigger than they initially realized. Same with their agent.

 

[Snazzylass]

All of the new homes that are ranch’s are about $150K more, because you also have to pay for the lot. We had priced one out, but the builders are only releasing 2 or 3 lots at a time due the cost of construction going up constantly.

I’m leaning towards walking. Hubby really wants this house if the sellers do all of the stuff we ask of them to get this issue resolved.

Yeah, you don't want to buy other people's problems. This might be a great buy for someone with lots of skills and connections in the trades, who has the time and money to bring the place back to life.

You might want to take out a piece of paper and draw a line down the middle. On the left, start writing what you thought you were buying - the offered purchase price plus what you thought you would spend on the improvements you wanted to make. On the right side, list what you know now about expenses and time and aggravations. Then set it aside. The next morning, get a cup of coffee and discuss it.

I've got family members who have fixed up many, many simple neglected homes. Too many times the homes still have the same problems after the rehab - the smell, the moisture, etc. The buyers are generally happy though, but I often think they should have ripped out more. This is what you see on the HGTV show, Two chicks and a Hammer. They started with neglected properties and they do it right. I've seen You Tubers do the same. One young couple in MI comes to mind.

 

[Sugarcubesea]

Not Necessarily. These little cottages at waters edge in the Midwest are wildly popular. It's so peaceful and friendly. Most are vacation homes. So, they are always in demand. They are often handed down to the next generation, and then rebuilt.

On the other hand, the sellers have a condition issue. It might be bigger than they initially realized. Same with their agent.

Snazzy, yes these cottage style houses are very popular and they sell for high prices... My parents bought a 2 bedroom cottage in Charlevoix on Lake Charlevoix in Michigan in the 1960"s and sold it in the late 1980's for a 300% profit...

 

[Sugarcubesea]

So we walked away this morning and the buyers came back to us and asked it if there was a concession amount that would make us reconsider walking if they did all the work and then gave us a reduction in price...dang, now I'm talking to my friend who works for a big construction company in Michigan and she feels that if they came down in price about $50K that she could help us re-do the home

 

[SueDonJ]

So we walked away this morning and the buyers came back to us and asked it if there was a concession amount that would make us reconsider walking if they did all the work and then gave us a reduction in price...dang, now I'm talking to my friend who works for a big construction company in Michigan and she feels that if they came down in price about $50K that she could help us re-do the home

Depending on whether or not you update kitchen/baths that $50,000 might not stretch to cover the mold issue and everything else.

Water damage/mold would be a deal-breaker for me, and renos/repairs very often come in over budget if going into walls/floors is necessary. But if you want to go ahead with the purchase and the seller has made concessions by agreeing to do all the work, then you should take the inspection report that's most extensive and get three estimates from reputable companies quoting a price to cover every repair necessary, then tell the seller that the highest-price estimate is what needs to come off of your existing offer in order for you to ahead with the purchase. I wouldn't trust the seller to have the repairs done correctly because too much of the necessary work is behind the walls.

 

[elaine]

So we walked away this morning and the buyers came back to us and asked it if there was a concession amount that would make us reconsider walking if they did all the work and then gave us a reduction in price...about $50K.

I debated suggesting asking for this...this is somewhat of a game changer, IMHO.

then you should take the inspection report that's most extensive and get three estimates from reputable companies quoting a price to cover every repair necessary

realize home inspection doesn't catch everything-they can't look behind the walls. But, with them "willing to do the work," and drop it $50K, I'd get an inspector/contractor to give an estimate based upon a thorough inspection--at the very least, I'd get approval for them to cut little holes in the walls to stick a scope up. (given the mold issue, which they now likely HAVE to disclose to another buyer, it actually helps them, even if you don't buy, to show that they've had behind the walls checked. It's an easy drywall patch job afterwards. hole is the size of a 1/2 dollar.)
If the wallboard/insulation didn't look too bad (water/mold minimal or contractor has a reasonable plan for fixing water intrusion/humidity issue), then I'd probably go for it--but I have a hubby who can do a lot of that stuff. He took our bathroom shower down to the studs and examined wall behind shower plumbing and put a scope into ceiling below shower to survey extent of water damage/mold for improperly installed shower pan/liner/groat issue.

 

[Sugarcubesea]

I debated suggesting asking for this...this is somewhat of a game changer, IMHO.

realize home inspection doesn't catch everything-they can't look behind the walls. But, with them "willing to do the work," and drop it $50K, I'd get an inspector/contractor to give an estimate based upon a thorough inspection--at the very least, I'd get approval for them to cut little holes in the walls to stick a scope up. (given the mold issue, which they now likely HAVE to disclose to another buyer, it actually helps them, even if you don't buy, to show that they've had behind the walls checked. It's an easy drywall patch job afterwards. hole is the size of a 1/2 dollar.)
If the wallboard/insulation didn't look too bad (water/mold minimal or contractor has a reasonable plan for fixing water intrusion/humidity issue), then I'd probably go for it--but I have a hubby who can do a lot of that stuff. He took our bathroom shower down to the studs and examined wall behind shower plumbing and put a scope into ceiling below shower to survey extent of water damage/mold for improperly installed shower pan/liner/groat issue.

Elaine,

Thank you for all of this great advice,

We have terminated our current sales agreement with the sellers and we submitted the following back to the sellers:

The Mold Remediation company chosen must warrant non mold issues from coming back for at least 2 years.

• A vent must be inserted into the attic.
• A vent must be inserted in the bathroom.
• Remove Soffits and put in baffles to allow ventilation and reinstall the soffits. The soffit vents are blocked by insulation.
• Buyer will have an inspector/contractor give an estimate based upon a thorough inspection
• Requesting approval for inspector to cut little holes in the walls to stick a scope up. (given the mold issue, which they now likely HAVE to disclose to another buyer, it actually helps them, even if we don't buy, to show that they've had it checked behind the walls. I

The company hired must be certified in mold remediation. The mold remediation contractor must have IICRC (Institute of Inspection Certification and Restoration Certification credentials.

The remediation expert must have environmental insurance coverage, because it provides liability insurance in case contamination occurs during remediation. Consult the Restoration Industry Association, to find a credible remediation contractor.

After all mold remediation has been completed, the buyer is requesting for a IICRC certified mold remediation expert to inspect and ensure that all work was properly done. If work is not properly done via this inspection buyers have the right to walk away and earnest money returned to them.

• Requesting Sellers to pay for a home warranty for the buyers
• In addition to completing all of the above mold mitigation, the buyers are requesting a reduction in sales price to $255,000 from $309,900. This reduction is needed to reflect additional mold mitigation costs the buyer most assuredly will incur for mold removal in the walls and floors.

 

[elaine]

caveat---I am not a contractor/mold expert. These are just some issues we encountered in our home, buying a house in a high humidity area (with mold in crawl space-no big deal-encapsulate/dehumidifier), and talking to an environmental expert about synthetic stucco issues (water intrusion-mold--we walked away from that house) in our home ownership/buying escapades.
Good luck! With your above plan, and assuming this is DH's dream (for the next 7-8 years), I'd likely go forward with the purchase, depending on how the mold remediation goes. Again--fixing issue that allowed mold is key.

 

[Sugarcubesea]

caveat---I am not a contractor/mold expert. These are just some issues we encountered in our home, buying a house in a high humidity area (with mold in crawl space-no big deal-encapsulate/dehumidifier), and talking to an environmental expert about synthetic stucco issues (water intrusion-mold--we walked away from that house) in our home ownership/buying escapades.
Good luck! With your above plan, and assuming this is DH's dream (for the next 7-8 years), I'd likely go forward with the purchase, depending on how the mold remediation goes. Again--fixing issue that allowed mold is key.

The sellers came back and said they have decided to just re list the home and we are making too big of a deal out of it. They said the next buyer won’t have an issue. I think they are now trying to not fix anything and just re list. I’m at peace with our decision to walk as I feel that since the house was vacant for a year and they have done no maintenance and are now hoping to get top dollar.

 

[joestein]

Sounds like they are doing the work needed to address the mold issues. i'd be fretting but moving forward. But I don't understand roofing that only has a ten year life. Maybe that is the norm where it snows in winter?

No - here in the NE where we have hot summers and cold winters - a cheap contractor grade roof last 20 years. A quality roof like GAF Timberline or Owens Corning Tru-Definition is a 30 year roof (IMHO). Shingles have a lifetime warrantly - but after 10 years good luck getting anything.

Personally, I would not buy a house with so many issues. These are the ones you have found, what about the ones you didn't.

Joe

 

[joestein]

I know the answer to this! The more layers of shingles, the shorter the life span. (I'm in Michigan so this might be weather specific). We had 3 layers of shingles and did replacement last year. They will not allow more than 3 layers. Our new, down to the new sheeting and whatever has a 30 year span. The layers were 1972, 1995 and 2008. We bought our house from my Grandpa, who was the original owner, so we know all the timelines.

According to all the roofers I met with, 'code' doesn't allow a second layer to be added. All roof replacements must include a tear off of the existing roof. I guess it is possible that is only for NJ.

 

[joestein]

The sellers came back and said they have decided to just re list the home and we are making too big of a deal out of it. They said the next buyer won’t have an issue. I think they are now trying to not fix anything and just re list. I’m at peace with our decision to walk as I feel that since the house was vacant for a year and they have done no maintenance and are now hoping to get top dollar.

Do the seller have an agent? If so, did they list mold on the disclosure sheet?

If they weren't aware of it, they are now. They will have to list the mold on the disclosure sheet.

 

[Sugarcubesea]

Do the seller have an agent? If so, did they list mold on the disclosure sheet?

If they weren't aware of it, they are now. They will have to list the mold on the disclosure sheet.

Yes, the sellers had an agent. He was from Coldwell Banker. I think that the listing agent wanted the sale to go thru more then the sellers did. He told my agent that they would take $50K less and they just wanted to fix the issue and not have us reinspect to ensure it was done correctly. My realtor is going to watch when it’s re listed and if they don’t disclose the mold he’s going to report them. He said when realtors do stuff like this it makes the whole profession look bad. I’m just happy we were able to find out that that more mold was discovered by the second inspector. In the end I’m glad we walked away.

 

[mentalbreak]

What a roller coaster! Glad you chose to have inspections and they found the issue before it became your problem!
I have read many stories of “as is” offers in this crazy market and big regrets down the road.
Good luck in your continued search!

 

[Snazzylass]

Yes, the sellers had an agent. He was from Coldwell Banker. I think that the listing agent wanted the sale to go thru more then the sellers did. He told my agent that they would take $50K less and they just wanted to fix the issue and not have us reinspect to ensure it was done correctly. My realtor is going to watch when it’s re listed and if they don’t disclose the mold he’s going to report them. He said when realtors do stuff like this it makes the whole profession look bad. I’m just happy we were able to find out that that more mold was discovered by the second inspector. I’m the end I’m glad we walked away.

That you are at peace is the most important thing!

And, I am sorry to say, but I assumed this would ultimately be the seller's response. I've seen it too many times. I had a family member walk away from the first offer they received over a $6k issue last year. Months later they finally sold their home after coming down $50k. Happens all the time. It's the crazy thing. It's an emotional response from sellers. As soon as they get an offer, they suddenly have an over inflated perspective. It's even happened to me but I zipped my lips and got to the closing table.

So, you are a bit of a victim of the concept that the second mouse gets the cheese. That's not to say that the ultimate buyer won't have regrets, especially if they are not as careful as you were about your due diligence. So, good for you! You took your time and acted wisely.

And, everyone wants to live on water in June... maybe not so much next winter when the roads are bad. All the best to you! Real Estate is very serendipitous. If it's meant to be, it will happen!

 

[Sugarcubesea]

Do the seller have an agent? If so, did they list mold on the disclosure sheet?

If they weren't aware of it, they are now. They will have to list the mold on the disclosure sheet.

Mold was not disclosed on the disclosure we signed off on. However I believe they knew and choose not to disclose, because when we talked to the next door neighbors they told us the water pipes in both bathrooms exploded last year around November and the neighbors had to call the owners to tell them the water was pouring out of their house. The neighbor told me that the owner did all the work themselves and our inspector found that the toilet was loose in one of the bathrooms, so they did a shoddy job on re doing the bathrooms after the pipes burst.

 

[PigsDad]

I think you dodged a bullet. I know you're disappointed, but I'm sure you will find a place that will be a much better fit for you. Good luck!

Kurt