Odd Update at Grand Desert today

[bestpal38]

I checked into Grand Desert on Friday, and for the second time in 2 weeks, was not asked to attend an owners update. So I assume I'm on the Do Not Sell list. Yesterday morning, getting ready for the day, O'Neal, a salesman that I'm familiar with calls the room. He said it was owner appreciation month, and they had a gift bag for me, but noticed I hadn't signed up for an update. I informed him I must be on the DNS list, as this was our second time there this month, with no invite. Well he tells me to meet with him, and we will find out why. So we go to meet with him this morning, and of course he is busy, so they offer me breakfast, and I take a seat to wait. About 20 minutes goes by, I was considering just leaving, when another man comes over, informs me O'neal is busy so he would explain it to me. So he tells me I am not able to go to updates any longer, because my account seem misaligned. I have 2 deeds, and I have a CWA contract. He told me CWA was never intended to be long term, and I needed to exchange it for a deed somewhere, by buying more points. I told him to his face he was a liar, and he needs to get the gift I was offered so I could leave. I informed him that I tend to ruffle feathers there, and they all hate me there. He told me I couldn't ruffle his feathers, but I must have, cause he disappeared, and another gentleman came over. Spewed the same BS, so I told him, get my gift I'm leaving. They give me a tote bag with an assortment of gifts in it, which was brought over by yet another person. I know I've seen the CEO's email floating around here, is it worth an email, to show what kind of garbage they are saying?? I am also considering a call to Customer care. I've done many sales presentations at Grand Desert, I'm treated poorly everytime, which I'm fine with, in fact today there were at least 3 or 4 condescending comments made about my presence there, but this was by far the most dishonest they have been, with outright lies. Any suggestions from anyone if I should do anything??

 

[Sandi Bo]

I think you just have to let it go. It's how Wyndham has been doing business forever. Not right, they must love jerking you around, too. Ya know... watch this, let's see how much of this guys time I can waste. Lock your door so they can't come back and take your gift back, lol. And enjoy the rest of your stay.

 

[capital city]

why continue to go? I just dont get it, why allow the Wyndham sales scum to set the mood for your vacation?

 

[SNA27]

What was in the gift bag? Playing cards and stuff?

 

[HitchHiker71]

Honestly there’s a part of me that wonders if they don’t purposely behave like this in an effort to get educated folks like yourself to stop attending updates altogether since it’s a waste of their time since you will never buy anything. Perhaps they are trying to drive you away with bad behavior in other words.

The last update I attended in Alexandria last weekend, the guy mentioned that the sales dept has some kind of score called a CRS or something similar that “grades” your account based upon how many updates you attend over time along with other metrics. First time I’d heard about anything like this so it’s probably BS, but I’ve often wondered to myself if they had some sort of metric like this. I would if I was running the sales organization, in fact I would have several metrics along this line.


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[SNA27]

Honestly there’s a part of me that wonders if they don’t purposely behave like this in an effort to get educated folks like yourself to stop attending updates altogether since it’s a waste of their time since you will never buy anything. Perhaps they are trying to drive you away with bad behavior in other words.

The last update I attended in Alexandria last weekend, the guy mentioned that the sales dept has some kind of score called a CRS or something similar that “grades” your account based upon how many updates you attend over time along with other metrics. First time I’d heard about anything like this so it’s probably BS, but I’ve often wondered to myself if they had some sort of metric like this. I would if I was running the sales organization, in fact I would have several metrics along this line.


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It doesn't matter what metrics they have or not, but wasting time on humiliating someone who never wanted to attend in the first place is petty, to say the least. I hope metrics are collected to identify prospective customers and not potential 'enemies' to inconvenience and humiliate. That's so unprofessional and counterproductive. That's a complete waste of time. No CEO would or should tolerate this.

 

[HitchHiker71]

It doesn't matter what metrics they have or not, but wasting time on humiliating someone who never wanted to attend in the first place is petty, to say the least. I hope metrics are collected to identify prospective customers and not potential 'enemies' to inconvenience and humiliate. That's so so unprofessional and counterproductive.

The metric itself doesn’t dictate outcomes, but you are living in a dreamworld if you don’t think that metrics influence behavior. If the metric in question clearly tells the sales organization that the person in question is extremely unlikely to ever make a purchase, yet that person continually attends updates, I’m simply saying that some humans within the sales department may feel as though that person is a waste of their time, and therefore may choose to treat said person in a manner that will discourage them from continuing to attend said updates. You might be right that it’s petty and not a good way to handle the situation, but it happens.

If the same metric indicates that the person is more likely to consider a purchase, most likely that person will be treated differently. Metrics like this certainly would influence behavior if they do exist.

 

[SNA27]

The metric itself doesn’t dictate outcomes, but you are living in a dreamworld if you don’t think that metrics influence behavior. If the metric in question clearly tells the sales organization that the person in question is extremely unlikely to ever make a purchase, yet that person continually attends updates, I’m simply saying that some humans within the sales department may feel as though that person is a waste of their time, and therefore may choose to treat said person in a manner that will discourage them from continuing to attend said updates. You might be right that it’s petty and not a good way to handle the situation, but it happens.

If the same metric indicates that the person is more likely to consider a purchase, most likely that person will be treated differently. Metrics like this certainly would influence behavior if they do exist.

It shouldn't be up to the salesperson to seek out a person who was not attending in the first place and to discourage humiliate them. CEO should fire such persons because he has a brand to protect!
Such salespersons probably don't produce much anyway. The best salespersons are straight-shooters who understand the customer and don't try to deceive them, imo.

 

[bestpal38]

I think you just have to let it go. It's how Wyndham has been doing business forever. Not right, they must love jerking you around, too. Ya know... watch this, let's see how much of this guys time I can waste. Lock your door so they can't come back and take your gift back, lol. And enjoy the rest of your stay.

Exactly what my wife said, she thinks they were jerking us around, wasting our time.

 

[bestpal38]

What was in the gift bag? Playing cards and stuff?

The gift bag contained a shot glass, a couple drink glasses, some coasters, a magnet, an aluminum wallet, and two keychains. When I asked sales person number 3 if this was my parting gift, she said, Yep, and walked away!! Yep, I guess I wash my hands of these people. Curious when I go somewhere besides Vegas, if I'll be asked to attend.

 

[HitchHiker71]

It shouldn't be up to the salesperson to seek out a person who was not attending in the first place and to discourage humiliate them. CEO should fire such persons because he has a brand to protect!
Such salespersons probably don't produce much anyway. The best salespersons are straight-shooters who understand the customer and don't try to deceive them, imo.

IME the CEO is keenly aware of the very questionable sales practices that are informally encouraged and in some cases actually formally taught. Just ask anyone who used to work in Wyndham sales, I know, I’ve asked several myself and that is how I have arrived at this unfortunate conclusion. Is it right or even wise? IMHO not even close, but I tend to be a very ethics driven person like you from what I can tell.

Jan, Richelle and I have often written ad nauseum in past posts about the unethical sales practices that Wyndham employs and how we all feel that if they do not stop these miserable sales practices it may be the end of Wyndham as we know it eventually, but every day, heck even multiples times a day, on the Facebook groups we continue to field stories just like this one or worse. You don’t think the CEO is aware of these practices given how prevalent they are on social media? As long as Wyndham’s sales numbers continue to rise as they have over the past decade, they will most likely turn a blind eye to the methods used, however questionable those methods may be. Just my two cents though.


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[HitchHiker71]

Exactly what my wife said, she thinks they were jerking us around, wasting our time.

IME this is taught. Talk for a bit then make an excuse and walk away for while, then come back and try again. Oftentimes they say they have to go speak with a manager or speak to someone who actually works in sales if it’s a “member services” site which is a joke - they are just employing different personas in an effort to daze and confuse.

Even with an impromptu visit on your part - still the same pattern of behavior.


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[chapjim]

I checked into Grand Desert on Friday, and for the second time in 2 weeks, was not asked to attend an owners update. So I assume I'm on the Do Not Sell list. Yesterday morning, getting ready for the day, O'Neal, a salesman that I'm familiar with calls the room. He said it was owner appreciation month, and they had a gift bag for me, but noticed I hadn't signed up for an update. I informed him I must be on the DNS list, as this was our second time there this month, with no invite. Well he tells me to meet with him, and we will find out why. So we go to meet with him this morning, and of course he is busy, so they offer me breakfast, and I take a seat to wait. About 20 minutes goes by, I was considering just leaving, when another man comes over, informs me O'neal is busy so he would explain it to me. So he tells me I am not able to go to updates any longer, because my account seem misaligned. I have 2 deeds, and I have a CWA contract. He told me CWA was never intended to be long term, and I needed to exchange it for a deed somewhere, by buying more points. I told him to his face he was a liar, and he needs to get the gift I was offered so I could leave. I informed him that I tend to ruffle feathers there, and they all hate me there. He told me I couldn't ruffle his feathers, but I must have, cause he disappeared, and another gentleman came over. Spewed the same BS, so I told him, get my gift I'm leaving. They give me a tote bag with an assortment of gifts in it, which was brought over by yet another person. I know I've seen the CEO's email floating around here, is it worth an email, to show what kind of garbage they are saying?? I am also considering a call to Customer care. I've done many sales presentations at Grand Desert, I'm treated poorly everytime, which I'm fine with, in fact today there were at least 3 or 4 condescending comments made about my presence there, but this was by far the most dishonest they have been, with outright lies. Any suggestions from anyone if I should do anything??

Advice: Keep going to Grand Desert (and other resorts) if you like the place(s). Quit going to "updates" since they bother you. It's that simple.

 

[SNA27]

IME the CEO is keenly aware of the very questionable sales practices that are informally encouraged and in some cases actually formally taught. Just ask anyone who used to work in Wyndham sales, I know, I’ve asked several myself and that is how I have arrived at this unfortunate conclusion. Is it right or even wise? IMHO not even close, but I tend to be a very ethics driven person like you from what I can tell.

Jan, Richelle and I have often written ad nauseum in past posts about the unethical sales practices that Wyndham employs and how we all feel that if they do not stop these miserable sales practices it may be the end of Wyndham as we know it eventually, but every day, heck even multiples times a day, on the Facebook groups we continue to field stories just like this one or worse. You don’t think the CEO is aware of these practices given how prevalent they are on social media? As long as Wyndham’s sales numbers continue to rise as they have over the past decade, they will most likely turn a blind eye to the methods used, however questionable those methods may be. Just my two cents though.


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I understand the conventional wisdom 'the buck stops at the top' but from the few interviews I have seen of CEO Michael Brown, he seems sincere and optimistic. It's a complex organization to manage and I would like to cut him some slack and fool myself into thinking he will not tolerate such slimy unproductive practices if he was aware of it. Maybe OP should send him a thoughtful email.

 

[Jan M.]

I understand the conventional wisdom 'the buck stops at the top' but from the few interviews I have seen of CEO Michael Brown, he seems sincere and optimistic. It's a complex organization to manage and I would like to cut him some slack and fool myself into thinking he will not tolerate such slimy unproductive practices if he was aware of it. Maybe OP should send him a thoughtful email.

If you joined the Wyndham Facebook groups like HitchHiker recommended you would be seeing multiple posts a week with people asking for Michael Brown's email address so they can inform him of what they were told or how they were treated in a sales presentation/update. I can tell you that Michael Brown has people to deal with those emails. He gets enough emails from owners that he wouldn't get anything else done if he didn't have people to handle them. It's kind of beneath the CEO of a big company like Wyndham who has a lot more important things occupying his time. Although I would certainly expect that he has his people keeping him informed of what's going on in a general sense. I had high hopes that things would change once Michael Brown had a year under his belt at Wyndham's helm but clearly that hasn't happened.

 

[SNA27]

If you joined the Wyndham Facebook groups like HitchHiker recommended you would be seeing multiple posts a week with people asking for Michael Brown's email address so they can inform him of what they were told or how they were treated in a sales presentation/update. I can tell you that Michael Brown has people to deal with those emails. He gets enough emails from owners that he wouldn't get anything else done if he didn't have people to handle them. It's kind of beneath the CEO of a big company like Wyndham who has a lot more important things occupying his time. Although I would certainly expect that he has his people keeping him informed of what's going on in a general sense. I had high hopes that things would change once Michael Brown had a year under his belt at Wyndham's helm but clearly that hasn't happened.

All I can say is, I wouldn't tolerate it because it has nothing to do with 'business' and not helpful in the least and I hope Michael Brown has a similar mindset.
I do hope he will pay special attention to Las Vegas and New York and clamp down on their dubious practices.

 

[HitchHiker71]

All I can say is, I wouldn't tolerate it because it has nothing to do with 'business' and hot helpful and I hope Michael Brown has a similar mindset.

That’s easy to say, but when you realize that the entire timeshare industry employs these same practices, with a few rare exceptions, and that developer sales are a critical part of funding Wyndham’s timeshare business, it becomes more difficult to sit up in the ivory tower so to speak. My point is it has everything to do with the timeshare business. That is very unfortunate, and I agree with your assessment from an ethical standpoint, but my experiences on a daily basis tell me these types of unethical sales practices are still alive and well in the timeshare vertical. Michael Brown maintains ‘plausible deniability’ with the role he plays, but I’m 100% certain he has intimate awareness of the reality on the ground. Again just my two cents.


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[SNA27]

That’s easy to say, but when you realize that the entire timeshare industry employs these same practices, with a few rare exceptions, and that developer sales are a critical part of funding Wyndham’s timeshare business, it becomes more difficult to sit up in the ivory tower so to speak. My point is it has everything to do with the timeshare business. That is very unfortunate, and I agree with your assessment from an ethical standpoint, but my experiences on a daily basis tell me these types of unethical sales practices are still alive and well in the timeshare vertical. Michael Brown maintains ‘plausible deniability’ with the role he plays, but I’m 100% certain he has intimate awareness of the reality on the ground. Again just my two cents.


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Maybe they're focussed on the wrong segment of the market while alienating the right segment who can actually afford the TS. There are many well-to-do people in my circle of friends and relatives who can easily afford to buy VIPP as I have but they're all under the wrong impression that TS is a scam. They always wonder that I, of all people, own Wyndham TS. They become intrigued and tempted and I could send a whole lot of them to Wyndham but not if they don't have an honest and above-board process of selling it. Btw, I booked many GCs for my friends in 2019. They all loved Wyndham but were left suspicious and confused by the sales guys.

 

[Jan M.]

Maybe they're focussed on the wrong segment of the market while alienating the right segment who can actually afford the TS. There are many well-to-do people in my circle of friends and relatives who can easily afford to buy VIPP as I have but they're all under the wrong impression that TS is a scam. They always wonder that I, of all people, own Wyndham TS. They become intrigued and tempted and I could send a whole lot of them to Wyndham but not if they don't have an honest and above-board process of selling it. Btw, I booked many GCs for my friends in 2019. They all loved Wyndham but were left suspicious and confused by the sales guys.

We learned very quickly after we bought in 2002 that telling people we owned a timeshare would get us looks like we had invented a brand new kind of stupid because "everybody knows timeshares are a scam." All too often people didn't just give us looks that made it obvious what they were thinking, they made remarks too. Many of those people or someone they knew well had experienced a timeshare presentation and didn't come away with a favorable impression to put it mildly. We got that from friends, my husband's family, coworkers, acquaintances and people that barely knew us. When anyone asked where we stayed on our vacations we learned to just say the name of the resort and nothing more. We found that people just assumed it was a hotel they hadn't heard of. For the next 8 years the people my husband worked with would say to him that they didn't know how we could afford to vacation like we did because they knew he made around what they made and they also knew I had been a stay at home mom until our son was in senior high school. My husband would just say "Well you know we have the timeshare." They would get a doubtful look on their faces like there must be more to it than that. He would change the subject because he'd taken too much criticism from the people at work over owning a timeshare to open himself up to more by trying to explain how great timeshares can be.

Since our move to Florida in 2011 we've met so many other people who own timeshares. What a difference! Instead of having people shame us we've had many enjoyable conversations with other people about where they own and where they've stayed. I know they've gone to updates or sales presentations with whatever timeshare group or resort they own and had the typical experience because sometimes they'll mention something about it in passing. Having two such entirely different experiences with how people regard timeshares and the sales presentations has led me to two conclusions. One is that nine years made a lot of difference in how timeshares are viewed. The other is that some people are better able than others to see past the salespeople to see the value of the product they are selling

Jan.

 

[drepublic]

I checked into Grand Desert on Friday

So basically you're in Vegas and there's the problem...

Vegas has a lot of competition for timeshares and the sales staff have to be the most ruthless and deceiving unethical people I have ever come across. I was at Grand Desert in September last year for the Olympia Expo. The pools were nice, location decent, and the best part is that I snagged the room at a discount short notice. It's a great value as my cost is independent of what is going on in Vegas. That said I knew I was in Vegas and was prepared to meet some colossal A-holes and deal with each of them accordingly.

I took a cab from the Airport straight to Grand Desert and upon check in the lady seemed nervous as she had to "send me over the parking desk." I could tell she hates that part of her job, but I told her that won't be necessary as I took a cab and that I will head straight to my room. Just for fun I walked right in front of the parking desk people (like vultures) and just winked at them and just kept walking ignoring their pleas for me to come talk to them. When I entered my room I unplugged the phone in the room and had a peaceful night's rest and no annoying wake up phone call in the morning.

They did manage to slip a card under my door that night with my appointment time for a meeting I never signed up for.. I just left the card on the floor during my trip stepping on it from time to time. During the expo I got a call from Wyndham on my mobile phone (I should have blocked the number for that weekend), and I answered. It was sales from Grand Desert and she got about half a sentence in when I cut her off saying "You will get zero percent of my time during my stay at Grand Desert." To which see said "Thank you and then hung up."

The point is I just avoid meetings all together and live my life. The gift card isn't worth my time on Vacation and honestly who wants to deal with annoying A-holes at the start of a vacation?

I treat the sales staff how the treat me and much worse. I hope to be so lucky one day that I get put on the do not invite list.

 

[Iggyearl]

Any suggestions from anyone if I should do anything??

Maybe it's time to look in the mirror and ask, "Am I the problem." You mention that you have done many presentations at Grand Desert. This is the 2nd time in 2 weeks that you have been there. You told a salesman that he was a liar. And, "they all hate me there." And, "I'm treated poorly every time."

You are obviously out to provoke the salespeople and/or get free stuff. Why not leave them alone? You have been crapping on them, so they decided to crap on you. It will stop if you just walk away. Forget updates. Any salesperson does not want to waste his time on a non-prospect. You have proven that you are a solid match to their sordid techniques. Move on.

 

[pedro47]

Count yourself lucky and move on. You are on their DNS list that is awesome. Move On.

 

[bnoble]

we all feel that if they do not stop these miserable sales practices it may be the end of Wyndham as we know it eventually

Why would anything suddenly be different than it has been for decades?

 

[bestpal38]

Maybe it's time to look in the mirror and ask, "Am I the problem." You mention that you have done many presentations at Grand Desert. This is the 2nd time in 2 weeks that you have been there. You told a salesman that he was a liar. And, "they all hate me there." And, "I'm treated poorly every time."

You are obviously out to provoke the salespeople and/or get free stuff. Why not leave them alone? You have been crapping on them, so they decided to crap on you. It will stop if you just walk away. Forget updates. Any salesperson does not want to waste his time on a non-prospect. You have proven that you are a solid match to their sordid techniques. Move on.

While I admit I have done my share of provoking, I'm the bear that got poked one too many times. My wife and I apply the tactics of kill them with kindness. Yes we go to Vegas a lot, I live 2 and a half hours away. We get asked to attend a presentation, which after 3 no's, we take the $150 gift card they are offering. So in my opinion, the problem is they have a 2 headed monster, the parking pass people, on commission to sign people up, and the sales people, on commission to sell. Bad combination. And for the record, I have never crapped on anyone there, until I was crapped on first. Yes, they know me as the guy who is going to waste their time by not buying anything, but that does not give them the right to make the condescending comments about my wife and I. Yesterday, though I feel I was set up, it was nothing but lies, and deceit. so yes, I called him out on it. I am happy to be on the DNS list, I'm not happy with what went down yesterday

 

[Rolltydr]

While I admit I have done my share of provoking, I'm the bear that got poked one too many times. My wife and I apply the tactics of kill them with kindness. Yes we go to Vegas a lot, I live 2 and a half hours away. We get asked to attend a presentation, which after 3 no's, we take the $150 gift card they are offering. So in my opinion, the problem is they have a 2 headed monster, the parking pass people, on commission to sign people up, and the sales people, on commission to sell. Bad combination. And for the record, I have never crapped on anyone there, until I was crapped on first. Yes, they know me as the guy who is going to waste their time by not buying anything, but that does not give them the right to make the condescending comments about my wife and I. Yesterday, though I feel I was set up, it was nothing but lies, and deceit. so yes, I called him out on it. I am happy to be on the DNS list, I'm not happy with what went down yesterday

You are never obligated to say yes to a presentation no matter how many times they ask. I have found that when I sternly say no a couple of times, they stop asking. To me, It isn’t worth a gift card to subject myself to their tactics and rob myself of a couple hours of relaxing vacation time. At this point, if I do that, it’s on me because I knew the deal going in.