Odd Covid thing happening , questions ?

[easyrider]

Some family friend just got to Hawaii. They tested negative in Washington but the youngest at 11 tested positive in Hawaii. The mother called my daughter to tell her this morning of the results because the kids all play together. My daughter took every one to a covid testing site where 2 out of 5 of their family tested positive.

The grand daughters were at our house this week but no one was symptomatic except for a bit of a cough that one of them had because of asthma. When she coughed I kind of cringed and went to work on something.

Now I wonder if these positive tests are real. Easter is now cancelled at my brother in laws because every one that has been in contact with these girls is suppose to quarantine for 10 days is what was said. Is that actually right ? If a person that has been exposed tests negative are they good to go ?

Bill

 

["Roger"]

False negatives are not that uncommon with the PCR test, particularly if a person has just become infected. (That is why Hawaii has a person retested upon arrival.)

Here is one article about the likelihood of a false negative.

COVID-19 Story Tip: Researchers Expect Viral Transmission of COVID-19 May Increase as Temperatures Drop

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

In the report on the findings published May 13 in the journal Annals of Internal Medicine, the researchers found that the probability of a false negative result decreases from 100% on Day 1 of being infected to 67% on Day 4. The false negative rate decreased to 20% on Day 8 (three days after a person begins experiencing symptoms).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/01/13/false-negative-covid-test/

The false negative rate of PCR tests on the day of exposure is 100 percent, but falls to about 38 percent five days later as symptoms usually set in, according to an analysis published in the Annals of Internal Medicine. The rate decreases further, to about 20 percent, after three more days.

 

[bluehende]

Some family friend just got to Hawaii. They tested negative in Washington but the youngest at 11 tested positive in Hawaii. The mother called my daughter to tell her this morning of the results because the kids all play together. My daughter took every one to a covid testing site where 2 out of 5 of their family tested positive.

The grand daughters were at our house this week but no one was symptomatic except for a bit of a cough that one of them had because of asthma. When she coughed I kind of cringed and went to work on something.

Now I wonder if these positive tests are real. Easter is now cancelled at my brother in laws because every one that has been in contact with these girls is suppose to quarantine for 10 days is what was said. Is that actually right ? If a person that has been exposed tests negative are they good to go ?

Bill

The one thing to remember is that is does take some time after exposure for the virus to really take off. The timelines I have heard is that the average is 5 days to symptoms with the tests showing a positive up to 24 hrs before that. The data Roger gave shows a little longer than what I heard to a positive. But remember that that is an average. It is a bell shaped curve around that time. That is why the CDC does recommend 10 days (down from 14 when better data was obtained) to be completely safe. A negative test means at that moment the titer of the virus is too low to detect. That may be either no virus present or too early to detect. Very sorry to hear this as both of my kids have been through these situations with their kids and possible exposure. It is a tough time.

 

[easyrider]

The one thing to remember is that is does take some time after exposure for the virus to really take off. The timelines I have heard is that the average is 5 days to symptoms with the tests showing a positive up to 24 hrs before that. The data Roger gave shows a little longer than what I heard to a positive. But remember that that is an average. It is a bell shaped curve around that time. That is why the CDC does recommend 10 days (down from 14 when better data was obtained) to be completely safe. A negative test means at that moment the titer of the virus is too low to detect. That may be either no virus present or too early to detect. Very sorry to hear this as both of my kids have been through these situations with their kids and possible exposure. It is a tough time.

Thanks Bluehende. We are not sure what to do but because the kids are not sick I think they should get re-tested. We have some other friends that had kids testing positive and then tested negative two days latter. I'm thinking we will abide by whatever our Health Department says. That won't happen until Monday. Until then we are staying home.

Bill

 

[Cornell]

I was told by my doc to wait 5 days after my symptoms started before I tested.

 

[DrQ]

The test is biased to be sensitive to have false positives rather than false negatives.

I think caution with non-vaccinated persons is warranted. Kids can have so many contacts. Retest all the kids and see where you stand.

 

[easyrider]

The test is biased to be sensitive to have false positives rather than false negatives.

I think caution with non-vaccinated persons is warranted. Kids can have so many contacts. Retest all the kids and see where you stand.

That is what I thought but to be safe I'm not willing to mingle until I know for sure. Other family members were tested at Rite Aid in the late afternoon. The pharmacist said there has been a bunch of covid positive school kids recently as the schools re-open. I was told that our grand kids will be re-tested because they are the only ones in the family that tested positive.

Bill

 

[DrQ]

I'm just a disembodied voice on the internet. You need to follow what you think is true.

I'm an overcautious oldster that when I hear conflicting opinions, I default to the (my) perceived safest position.

I'm an engineer, not a virologist, so take that into consideration.

 

[CO skier]

Some family friend just got to Hawaii. They tested negative in Washington but the youngest at 11 tested positive in Hawaii. The mother called my daughter to tell her this morning of the results because the kids all play together. My daughter took every one to a covid testing site where 2 out of 5 of their family tested positive.

The grand daughters were at our house this week but no one was symptomatic

I was told that our grand kids will be re-tested because they are the only ones in the family that tested positive.

There are false positive and false negative Covid-19 test results.

Asymptomatic Covid-19 cases are more common in children than adults, so there is nothing "odd" about 3 postive tests in children, but no one is showing symptoms.

Cancelling the Easter get-together was, unfortunately, probably the wise thing to do.

 

["Roger"]

The test is biased to be sensitive to have false positives rather than false negatives.

I think caution with non-vaccinated persons is warranted. Kids can have so many contacts. Retest all the kids and see where you stand.

Everything that I have read says the opposite. The local med tech that I regularly talk to says just the opposite - false positives are unusual, false negatives more common.

I might add that there are two types of test. The PCR test and the antigen test. The PCR is the more sensitive and more reliable. The antigen test has the advantage that the results can be obtained almost immediately. The problem with the antigen test is that it is not nearly as reliable, but again in the direction of producing a large number of false negative.

Here is one source, the Cleveland Clinic which is one of the best health care institutions in the country.

Understanding the Different Types of COVID-19 Tests

A Cleveland Clinic expert explains the difference between the types of COVID-19 tests you could have.

health.clevelandclinic.org

 

[DrQ]

Everything that I have read says the opposite. The local med tech that I regularly talk to says just the opposite - false positives are unusual, false negatives more common.

I might add that there are two types of test. The PCR test and the antigen test. The PCR is the more sensitive and more reliable. The antigen test has the advantage that the results can be obtained almost immediately. The problem with the antigen test is that it is not nearly as reliable, but again in the direction of producing a large number of false negative.

Here is one source, the Cleveland Clinic which is one of the best health care institutions in the country.

I was referring to the PCR test. I don't disagree with the inaccuracies of the antigen test.

You are correct, I went and looked up the article:

Interpreting a covid-19 test result

### What you need to know Across the world there is a clamour for covid-19 testing, with Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, director general of the World Health Organization, encouraging countries to “test, test, test.”1 The availability of the complete genome of covid-19 early in the epidemic...

www.bmj.com

I remembered the results in the example in reverse. I stand corrected.

 

[easyrider]

We decided to stay home and others decided to have Easter here. Easter is split between 4 locations now. Group 1 is the infected group and they are home. Group 2 is the original Easter hang out. Group 3 went to see relatives. Group 4 is us staying at home but now the others that had contact with group 1 and have test negative are coming over for Easter.

It was less complicated and more enjoyable last year when we went Easter Jeeping, imo.

Bill

 

[b2bailey]

I'm curious what the family visiting Hawaii needed to do after arrival, because of the one child testing positive.

 

[easyrider]

I'm curious what the family visiting Hawaii needed to do after arrival, because of the one child testing positive.

I think they were heading to Waimea and will have to quarantine for 14 days or longer. I didn't know they test you when you land and was told that they only do this on Big Island. So they all tested negative to go to Hawaii and now because they are a group with 1 positive test they will all quarantine for 14 days in a vrbo house. The girl will need to test negative 14 days prior to flying home. The other 5 already tested negative so I am not sure if they have to test again.

Bill

 

[CO skier]

The girl will need to test negative 14 days prior to flying home.

? !! This cannot be right. Could it be that only the 14 day quarantine needs to be completed before returning?

It can take weeks to months to test negative for Covid-19 after being infected with Covid-19.

The Hawaiian authorities could not just deny entry and turn the whole group back to the mainland?

 

[lynne]

I think they were heading to Waimea and will have to quarantine for 14 days or longer. I didn't know they test you when you land and was told that they only do this on Big Island. So they all tested negative to go to Hawaii and now because they are a group with 1 positive test they will all quarantine for 14 days in a vrbo house. The girl will need to test negative 14 days prior to flying home. The other 5 already tested negative so I am not sure if they have to test again.

Bill

County of Hawaii is currently testing 100% of the arrivals at both KOA and ITO airports.
This is from an article in SF Gate - I am pretty sure it still applies
If you test positive in Hawaii, your Hawaiian vacation is automatically going to extend to at least 14 days because once you test positive, the airlines won't fly you back to the mainland until you recover. A spokesperson for United said, "If a passenger tests positive at the airport, they will not be allowed to fly and will have to quarantine [in Hawaii] and we’ll help them re-book their travel at an appropriate time. Customers are required to complete a Ready to Fly checklist before they fly [back to the mainland] with United indicating they have not tested positive for coronavirus within the last 14 days."

Something else to consider if you are traveling with a group: A spokesperson from Alaska Airlines referred to Hawaii's Department of Health website, which states, “If you receive a positive test result while you are in quarantine in Hawaii ... [and are] traveling with others, they will also be required to quarantine in Hawaii for 14 days.” Hawaiian Airlines referred to this "Flying into Hawaii" flowchart, which states that those testing positive are subject to "State of Hawaii positive restrictions." A Hawaiian Airlines spokesperson said, "Guests would be able to reschedule their return flight without change fees after being released from isolation and cleared to travel."

"You must stay in your visitor lodging/home to prevent the possible spread of COVID-19 to other people. This means:

-Do not use shared facilities such as pools, spas, gyms, restaurants, or bars
-You may not rent a car, whether through a rental car company, online service or through a peer-to-peer platform or car-sharing service
-Ask someone to drop off food and other necessities at your front door or order room service. A list of food delivery services is also available here.
-Do not go to public places such as the beach, work, school, shopping centers, childcare, or local attractions"

 

[JeffC]

What if I recently recovered from COVID-19?
CDC does not recommend getting tested again in the three months after a positive viral test, as long as you do not have symptoms of COVID-19. If you have had a positive viral test in the past 3 months, and you have met the criteria to end isolation, you may travel instead with documentation of your positive viral test results and a letter from your healthcare provider or a public health official that states you have been cleared for travel. The positive test result and letter together are referred to as “documentation of recovery.”

A letter from your healthcare provider or a public health official that clears you to end isolation, e.g., to return to work or school, can be used to show you are cleared to travel, even if travel isn’t specifically mentioned in the letter.

This is from the CDC website. Anyone who has tested positive for Covid can continue to test positive for 3 months. You would have to check with the airline to see if they would allow someone to fly with a letter of clearance and a positive test. This would also apply to asymptomatic persons with a positive test.

 

[bogey21]

If I'm part of an adult group, I'd think about setting it up as each of us traveling individually rather than as part of a group...

George

 

[easyrider]

I'm not sure what the family in Hawaii is doing at this time. My grandkids that tested positive and their family are in quarantine for 4 days only unless they show symptoms. No one is showing symptoms so I think they will be able to go back to school this week which seems kind of soon to me. We had contact before the grandkids tested positive but have been vaccinated. I'm told to quarantine for 4 days without symptoms by my daughter. So tomorrow I'm good to go out again is what I think.

It was a strange Easter.

Bill

 

[AndySamuels]

This is why I do not get tested. Too much paperwork, disclosure and related drama.

 

[TheHappyWanderer]

This is why I do not get tested. Too much paperwork, disclosure and related drama.

....and why I won't travel to Hawaii until I am allowed to travel there with proof of full vaccination rather than proof of a negative covid test. But I know that will not be a potential option for those travelling with kids who cannot be vaccinated, at least for a while.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Kids, what a conundrum. My daughter was vaccinated in December. Her husband got his 2nd shot on Saturday. No one has been more cautious than them. Someone called Saturday and invited them to see their chickens, my grandkids are 3 and 5. Of the people that invited them, the husband is fully vaccinated, the wife, eligible as she is a paralegal at a school, was waiting to see how the husband did. Wife just tested positive (and she started having symptoms on Friday (please don't ask why they would invite someone over on Saturday)). They were outside, masked, and used sanitizer. I really think everyone will be fine. It makes me wonder how things will be moving forward, how are vaxxers and anti-vaxxers going to coexist. Seems like it's going to get ugly. The bottom line for me in this situation, is the ones that end being the most at-risk are the children. To add insult to injury, my 88 year old mother is coming to visit (stay with me) on Thursday. Now we'll have to stay away for a week or so (what's a week when it's been a year)? It's going to get harder and harder to be nice to people who don't vaccinate.

I used to think if I had children < 18 (mine are all grown) I wouldn't vaccinate. Now I see why children are likely going to need to :-(

As far as the whole Hawaii thing, I wish we'd see more common sense applied to rules that are used. The hospitals aren't concerned about people being contagious after 20 or 21 days. They'll move a patient that tested positive to covid to a non-covid area 20 or 21 days after they first tested positive. I doesn't make sense those same rules wouldn't apply to travelers.

 

[lynne]

As far as the whole Hawaii thing, I wish we'd see more common sense applied to rules that are used. The hospitals aren't concerned about people being contagious after 20 or 21 days. They'll move a patient that tested positive to covid to a non-covid area 20 or 21 days after they first tested positive. I doesn't make sense those same rules wouldn't apply to travelers.

The issue for Hawaii is hospital capacity which extends past available icu beds. Maui has one hospital servicing the entire island, plus Lanai and Molokai, same in Kauai, we have 3 main hospitals on the Big Island with very limited capacity. If there is anything serious or cannot be handled locally, the patient is airlifted to Oahu at a premium cost. We just had two large clusters in Hilo and Kona raising our numbers exponentially.

Traveler's are not counted in the Hawaii case count numbers and when travelling in a group, they tend not to quarantine which may pass to our local vendors, restaurant staff....

It is not an easy solution because you cannot get from one island to another with air travel.

Sorry if this gets off topic and needs to be moved to the Covid-19 thread. I completely understand.

 

[easyrider]

Sorry if this gets off topic and needs to be moved to the Covid-19 thread. I completely understand.

You are posting in the covid threads, lol.

So I was told that I could go out after 4 days with no symptoms. I guess I didn't hear that right. Its 14 days but only 10 days with no symptoms. I thought it should be less because we are vaccinated.

Bill

 

[am1]

And we wonder why after a year there are still a lot of cases. Still too many unknowns so its best to be over cautious. But then 60k people at a baseball game.