Oct. 18: Now that Hawaii is open, it's time for the NEW AND IMPROVED COVID-19 poll and discussion thread.

[PearlCity]

I couldn’t tell from the written article and didn’t open the video - were they arrested in SFO and removed from the plane, or did they fly all the way to LIH before they were arrested?

They flew to LIH and got arrested on Kauai.

Police: Hawaii couple arrested after boarding plane knowing they were COVID positive

Two Kauai residents were arrested over the weekend after they got on a plane for the island knowing they were positive for COVID-19.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

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[TheHolleys87]

They flew to LIH and got arrested on Kauai.

Police: Hawaii couple arrested after boarding plane knowing they were COVID positive

Two Kauai residents were arrested over the weekend after they got on a plane for the island knowing they were positive for COVID-19.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

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Wow. I wonder how the Kauai government is handling the planeload of potentially exposed individuals?

 

[zentraveler]

I was just about to post the same article from the Washington Post. It is truly no wonder that Hawaii is being extremely careful; it seems people will do anything to get to Hawaii these days. The selfishness of some people is truly staggering.

It is also a caution about flying. The tests are helpful but do not create a risk free situation.

 

[amycurl]

People are the. worst.

 

[PearlCity]

Wow. I wonder how the Kauai government is handling the planeload of potentially exposed individuals?

Yeah there wasnt anything in the news about that. I know they do offer free voluntary post travel testing so maybe they are doing that. But im not sure. Its troubling that it sounds like these were returning residents. But still. Crazy stuff.

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[deniseh]

Would be good to know all the facts before jumping to conclusions. People can and do test positive for covid for up to three months after having covid. It doesn’t mean that a person is actually contagious when there is a positive result depending on the circumstances.

 

[Ken555]

Would be good to know all the facts before jumping to conclusions. People can and do test positive for covid for up to three months after having covid. It doesn’t mean that a person is actually contagious when there is a positive result depending on the circumstances.

The conclusions are clear, regardless of any possibility of their not being actively contagious. They disobeyed instructions. They flew when they were specifically told not to. What else do you need to know?

Frankly, I’m still dismayed that the airlines are not monitoring this adequately. This is just another reason not to trust the airlines regardless of what they say regarding safety.


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[lynne]

Interesting article on receiving a positive test at an airport testing center

What happened when I got a positive COVID-19 test in the midst of travel - The Points Guy

Here's what can happen if you get a surprise positive COVID-19 test result in the middle of a trip ... and how to prevent that from happening.

thepointsguy.com

 

[deniseh]

Interesting article on receiving a positive test at an airport testing center

What happened when I got a positive COVID-19 test in the midst of travel - The Points Guy

Here's what can happen if you get a surprise positive COVID-19 test result in the middle of a trip ... and how to prevent that from happening.

thepointsguy.com

Interesting article. He had the rapid covid test which can give false positive. Sounds like he did have some symptoms so it likely was accurate. We use them where I work and always follow up with the PCR test for confirmation. A negative rapid is accurate but positive rapid can be false. We’ve seen it happen. I would not want to depend on the rapid test prior to travel.

 

[JanT]

Important to note, too that at least in SF you are not eligible for testing at the airport unless your flight *originates* there, i.e., you are a local resident. There has been some discussion on TUG about people routing through there so they can get their tests done. Looks like that isn’t possible.

 

[csodjd]

Interesting article. He had the rapid covid test which can give false positive. Sounds like he did have some symptoms so it likely was accurate. We use them where I work and always follow up with the PCR test for confirmation. A negative rapid is accurate but positive rapid can be false. We’ve seen it happen. I would not want to depend on the rapid test prior to travel.

Last time I read the package insert on the rapid antigen test, it was only FDA approved for us in a symptomatic patient to confirm COVID. It was NOT approved or tested for surveillance testing or testing of asymptomatic patients, and there was no data on sensitivity and specificity on asymptomatic patients. Thus, it is prone to false positives on an asymptomatic patient. When you have both symptoms of COVID AND a positive antigen test you have high reliability in the test result.

This is why I say using it for surveillance testing on arrival in Kona is going to create problems.

 

[zentraveler]

Would be good to know all the facts before jumping to conclusions. People can and do test positive for covid for up to three months after having covid. It doesn’t mean that a person is actually contagious when there is a positive result depending on the circumstances.

Likewise the false negative rate is not zero. People don't test positive the minute they are infected because it takes time for the virus to multiply. I don't have the reference but my DH read an article recently about a family that got together after all testing negative and they all came down with covid. All to say that testing is very helpful, but it is not a panacea.

And there are the people who know they are positive and just have to go to Hawaii, infecting people all along the way (who will then infect others) ....

 

[csodjd]

Likewise the false negative rate is not zero. People don't test positive the minute they are infected because it takes time for the virus to multiply. I don't have the reference but my DH read an article recently about a family that got together after all testing negative and they all came down with covid. All to say that testing is very helpful, but it is not a panacea.

And there are the people who know they are positive and just have to go to Hawaii, infecting people all along the way (who will then infect others) ....

There are people, apparently quite a few, that still don't believe there is such a thing as COVID.

Testing needs to be viewed more as part of a strategy than a conclusion. The key to ensuring a high accuracy in a test is to have quarantined about 5-7 days before the test. If you became infected before the self-quarantine, it will likely appear in a test taken 5-7 days later. However, that doesn't mean you cannot become infected after the test. Put in terms of a trip to Hawaii, start a quarantine on Wednesday morning, follow that with a Monday test (that's five+ days, so 6+ since any possible infection) that's negative, then quarantine until flight departure on Wed or Thursday, and your only meaningful risk is the actual airport-flight-airport period.

 

[Xan]

Excellent video! This is from Thursday Dec 4, 2020 (New episode every Thursday @ 2pm Eastern.

The HighWire | Watch

Watch live here every Thursday at 11 PM PT (2 PM ET) and catch up on past episodes and episode segments.

thehighwire.com

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[magmue]

A overall perspective on Highwire from MediaBiasFactCheck.com. FWIW, before I decided to post a link from this website, I looked at their evaluation of other websites and media publications I am more familiar with - Media Bias Fact Check does not seem to have a particular political ax to grind.

 

[csodjd]

A overall perspective on Highwire from MediaBiasFactCheck.com. FWIW, before I decided to post a link from this website, I looked at their evaluation of other websites and media publications I am more familiar with - they do not seem to have a particular political ax to grind.

I'm not sure. It seems Highwire is operated by ICAN, which is clearly an advocacy group that refers to its work on "man made disease" and its lawsuits against the FDA, HHS, etc., and appears decidedly anti-vaccine. This is from their website. So I'm not sure I'm ready to accept their "facts."

 

[magmue]

I think I was unclear - I did not mean that Highwire had no political ax to grind - I meant that MediaBiasfactCheck seemed even-handed. And they assessed HighWire as:

a Strong Conspiracy as well as a Quackery level Pseudoscience site based on the routine promotion of unproven claims. We also rate them Low for factual reporting due to promoting propaganda not aligned with the consensus of science as well as several failed fact checks.

I will try to edit my last post to clarify - done.

 

[WalnutBaron]

I'm thinking 2022. Just saw an interview with Dr. Fauci where he predicted that we'd have an effective vaccine as early as November, but it wouldn't be widely available until the end of 2021.

I also like how Hawaii has handled this thing. The Governor stated his goal was to "ensure the health and safety of Hawaii's citizens". He did it. Hawaii is one of the least impacted states in the country as far as Covid is concerned. The guy also established a program that ensured that the majority of people traveling to the islands were tested in advance. They basically made Hawaii the safest state in the nation to travel to.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but if they protected their population from Covid, and made their state the safest travel destination in the country, can we give them some credit? I mean, it's about results. Seems like their doing pretty well.

On the flip side, Governor Ige is rated as the least popular governor of all 50 states, with a 32% approval rating. He may be protecting the locals, but he's decimating the Hawaiian economy. If the results of this poll are close to correct and things don't fully normalize until 2022, it's hard to imagine what Hawaii will look like then with massive hotel, restaurant, and tour company closures.

 

[csodjd]

On the flip side, Governor Ige is rated as the least popular governor of all 50 states, with a 32% approval rating. He may be protecting the locals, but he's decimating the Hawaiian economy. If the results of this poll are close to correct and things don't fully normalize until 2022, it's hard to imagine what Hawaii will look like then with massive hotel, restaurant, and tour company closures.

My view... there are some Governors that are waaayyyy to cavalier and doing a lousy job of protecting their citizens. Florida and the Dakotas come to mind. There are others that are too protective. Because of Hawaii's unique situation -- an island 3000 miles away -- it is easy for Ige to be too protective. To me, the most successful are those that are able to manage the compromises, to thread the needle and get the best protection with the least economic harm. Not easy, to be sure. But I'm not sure Hawaii has done a great job of even trying.

As an example, in Kauai they gave gone to 100% quarantine because of the lack of available ICU beds. Well, it's been 8 months. Is there any reason they could not have the ICU capacity they need today? Had they added beds perhaps they'd feel (and be) very safe today with the same rules as Oahu and the Hyatt would not be shutting down. According to Hawaii data, 7% of their cases statewide have required hospitalization. I believe generally about 15-25% of those need an ICU. So if you have 100 cases, perhaps 2 would need an ICU. Is there any reason for Kauai to not have 10 ICU beds available for COVID if needed? That would mean they could handle about 500 active cases. So far they've had 120 for the ENTIRE pandemic.

 

[lynne]

Worth the read:

The Real Reason Americans Aren’t Quarantining

 

[amy241]

Some suggest Hawaii may be heading for a shutdown again:

Second Tests Or Hawaii Travel Shutdown? | Next Changes Imminent

The one thing you can count on is that we have not heard the last of this.

beatofhawaii.com

 

[Breezy52]

I'm in quarantine state now. The only other inside exposure I've had than my immediate family is my hour spent with Dr. who works on my back. We both wear masks, but what convinced me to take this risk, He had Covid in April. 2 days after this last session he notifies me that he again has Covid, with symptoms, and would have had it during our session 2 days before. He did not have a mild case initially but not an extreme case either. 8 months between infections. For what its worth :-(

 

[amy241]

This article mentions that the movement to further restrict travel to Hawaii is going momentum with state lawmakers, particularly the senate. Some of these proposals will seriously curtail travel to the state.

Second Tests Or Hawaii Travel Shutdown? | Next Changes Imminent

The one thing you can count on is that we have not heard the last of this.

beatofhawaii.com

 

[PearlCity]

This article mentions that the movement to further restrict travel to Hawaii is going momentum with state lawmakers, particularly the senate. Some of these proposals will seriously curtail travel to the state.

Second Tests Or Hawaii Travel Shutdown? | Next Changes Imminent

The one thing you can count on is that we have not heard the last of this.

beatofhawaii.com

Im local. I feel like beat of hawaii is sensationalizing for clicks because no one is going their website to read about cheap airfare anymore. No one is talking about a shutdown esp not on oahu. They want to allow for a longer pretesting period followed by a second post test due to limited testing on some parts of the US mainland. We arents surging with a 7 day average of 92.9 cases. Additionally oahu's new mayor will be on board in less than a month and he wants to reopen more. The rules may change slightly,it may be confusing yet again- but i don't think we are shutting down to tourists.

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