Oceana Palms Presentation Today

[skidoc]

We are at Ocean Pointe enjoying a promotional stay; we will be attending the presentation today on Oceana Palms. We walked up the beach to the site; they have about 8 stories of poured concrete on the first building. It's a pretty tight site compared to Ocean Pointe, which is more sprawling (incidentally, we absolutely love Ocean Pointe). The Oceana Palms site is surrounded by high-rises; perhaps a more upscale part of Singer Island but there's no way that this will be as nice a resort in terms of the grounds and facilities that Ocean Pointe has.

Anyway, I'm curious what the spin will be at the presentation today. Oceana Palms doesn't seem to get much discussion on TUG and I wonder how they are doing thus far with moving the units. Any nagging questions to ask?

 

[ArBravesFan]

We took the tour in July.

Here's how they will spin the presentation:

1. "The lobby and check-in area will be fabulous."

OWNER RESPONSE: SO? HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU SPEND THERE?

2. "The units are decorated by Ritz Carlton!"

RESPONSE: VERY NICE! WHAT IS THE SQUARE FOOTAGE? IT IS ABOUT 20% SMALLER THAN OCEAN POINTE.

3. "There are no lock-outs. Who would want to spend a week in a tiny studio?"

RESPONSE: (SO THE SIZE OF THE UNIT DOES MATTER!) ALTHOUGH FEW WOULD WANT TO STAY IN A STUDIO, FEWER WOULD WANT TO GIVE UP THE OPTION FOR TWO WEEKS INSTEAD OF ONE OR FOR LOCKING OFF AND TRADING BOTH WEEKS BACK INTO THEIR HOME RESORT FOR TWO WEEKS IN A 2-BEDROOM (WHICH MANY HAVE DONE).

Take the tour, take the points and take a walk!

 

[Eric F]

Every MVC resort has owners that purchased at that resort for different reasons. From the Ko Olina 3BR penthouse week 52 owner to the Breckenridge studio mud-week season owner, there all types of buying motives and income levels for buyers.

For MVC owners that want more luxurious furnishings in a small high-rise "boutique resort" like Oceana Palms that will have unobstructed ocean views from a 2BR villa, that resort might be more desirable than Ocean Pointe. About 30% of MVC owners that have lock-off options actually use that option every year.

The diversity of MVC resorts is one of the benefits of being a MVC owner. I know that Oceana Palms will eventually sell out and that it will the preferred home resort for MVC owners that purchase there for the right reasons.

 

[KathyPet]

Different strokes for different folks

Target market for Oceana Palms is not the same as the standard Marriott target customer. This property is not really intended for families who need two bedrooms. It is a adult oriented, upscale property with upgraded furnishings. We have friends who bought there. It is their fourth Marriott property. They own at Hilton Head and at Ocean pointe. They have 3 children of high school/college age. When I asked him why he bought there he said that the other resorts they owned were for "family vacations" and each child would inherit one of the weeks but Oceana Palms was the location he bought just for himself and his wife to go without the children to enjoy some adult time.

 

[rsnash]

I've exchanged and done a getaway into Ocean Pointe. We really like the resort, but haven't felt the need to buy additional units anywhere, when Getaways can be had without an annual maintenance feel. Anyway, I've been looking forward to checking out Oceana Palms.

I'm curious how the beach access will be compared to Ocean Pointe? That's one of the things that is disappointing about Ocean Pointe... It's on the beach, but it's a long walk to the water, especially from the southernmost building.

 

[jerseyfinn]

Skidoc,

I think that EricF & KathyPet speak to the objective side of timeshare ownership. There's lots of ways to do TS and Oceana Palms is simply an example of a new concept by Marriott. It always comes down to goals of ownership, and that's why there are indeed so many different flavors of MVC TS. Oceana Palms is MVC's newest flavor.

I'll share why we purchased at Oceana Palms, but keep in mind that it's our own subjective decision. Also note that we own at Ocean Pointe, and in Spain. We've been around the block for nearly 8 years and have our own (subjective) finger on the pulse of the plusses and minuses of many MVC resorts.

Our purchase was quite unanticipated. But Oceana Palms is not trying to be Ocean Pointe, and it took a while for that idea to sink in. Marriott is trying to swim upscale with a botique resort concept which emphasizes elegance and style . . . in short they're trying to sell primarily to couples and folks looking for a different TS experience. Despite what some of the pundits suggest, there is indeed a market for this product. If there is anything "wrong" with MVC's decision it is their bad luck in launching the resort on the eve of a big economic downturn. But this is a resort built in proxmity to West Palm Beach, located directly on the water, and with high rise ocean front views of the ocean ( as in 19 stories high ). People will buy these units . . . the real question is will they purchase in this economy or will it take a few years for folks to come back & discover it?

What motivated us to purchase?

That high rise ocean front view for one. Also the sleek, stlyized design, modern kitchen, 9 foot ceilings and large balconies. What gave us pause? Trying to grasp the smaller footprint of the resort ( the plot plans and stepping off distance at Ocean Pointe helps us figure this out to some degree, but it is definitely a more constrained campus). Losing the larger 24 acre Ocean Pointe campus weighs heavy on our minds.

What was the "tie-breaker"?

After a lot of deep, contemplative thought ( much of that occuring at the pool bar/grill with drink in hand ), we figured out what we love about Ocean Pointe -- the beautiful beach and water, the lovely campus, and associates such a Rick at the bar. We also enjoy the villas, but to be honest, the villas at Ocean Pointe are really gonna start showing their age in the not too distant future, especially as MVC keeps rolling out new resorts with newer standards ( such as a seperate toilet in the main bath which is now the new MVC building norm along with more elegant showers etc. in the master baths). Ocean Pointe is a well managed resort, so I'm not going to speculate as to what I think the HOA should/would do there, but it's just our opinion that the resort is going to face some decisions in the future. Likewise, I'm not gonna knock the lock-offs, but there are indeed huge negatives to the lockoffs when you're a platinum owner trying to get in a week in February and 40 or 50 units are locked off and unavilble to an owner tyring to do their week. It's an unanticapted but very real consequence of a hugely successful resort. But this also speaks to the free will of owners to exercise their ownership rights. Like I said, there are plusses and negatives at every resort.

For us, it came down to the elegance, the better view, and above all, the fact that we are still on the same beach we love so much . . . we're simply a few hundred yards from where we first fell in love with the beach.

I try to put an objective spin on all of this because it is important for every potential owner to set their own goals of ownership. Ask questions, look around, and compare resorts whenever you travel. An informed owner is both wise and and conofident, because when they do make a purchase, it is fulfilling a dream and a goal, and not measuring up to the opinions of others. There's a lot of satisfied Ocean Pointe owners out there -- so too will there be happy Oceana Palms owners.

It's your money. Think hard, spend your money wisely, and above all, enjoy yourself!

happy travels

Barry

PS- we're heading down for a mini-stay in a couple of days and we're looking forward to Ocean Pointe and seeing how the new resort is shaping up.

 

[Smooth Air]

Sooo..what's up Doc? Yea or Nay? I own @ Ocean Pointe & am considering Oceana. Barry, thanks for your insightful input. You may be the reason I buy @ O. Palms !!!

Smooth Air

 

[skidoc]

Thanks all for your insights; Barry, you've hit the nail on the head in many ways. There are some paradoxes with Oceana Palms; my initial impressions:

1) The units/layout. The decor, layout, kitchen: fabulous--best I've seen in a timeshare. The new master bath standard is superb; the shower is bigger than my first apartment was when I was an intern in NYC!!! The units are smaller than in Ocean Pointe but it's not a noticeable issue; the two queen beds in the second bedroom is a great enhancement.

2) The property. I have my concerns about this, as the rear building (not yet under construction) will sit very close to an adjacent building, particularly on the north side and will have obstructed views; so some units called "OceanView" really will be much less desireable than other units with the same designation. It's a pretty tight lot, certainly won't have the sprawling feel that Ocean Pointe has; that's a matter of personal preference.

3) The amenities. This is where the salespeople are pushing their luck a bit. When she first started to tell us about Oceana Palms; she mentioned a planned "spa" and "restaurant." It turns out that the spa is a treatment room in the fitness center and that the restaurant is the "Marketplace Bistro." The final clarification came when I asked to see the description of the spa in the offering statement. In terms of being marketed to "adults" it is surprising to see the planned kids pool with water features in an adult-oriented TS.

4) The view. Yes, since the bottom 7 stories are parking, the views should be great, except when you are blocked from the sides (see above).

5) Lockouts: We asked about the lockouts, and she made the valid points that Barry did about difficulties in booking, etc.

6) The Deal: Platinum: 200K points "today." Gold 115K points "today" ~$39K Plat or ~$28K Gold "prices going up Thursday." These prices are from memory as nothing was written down and are for OceanView, not OceanFront, units. Platinum can be exchanged every year for points, Gold EOY. Still 13.9 percent financing; when I mentioned that Grande Lakes was 9.9% she came back saying that she might be able to do 9.9% after all (still offering 50K points/year if you finance through Marriott).

Anyway, all this being said, the units will be superb and we are quite taken with the beach and the location. Our situation is that we own a vacation home in the mountains and we own what would be equivalent to a EOY DVC, so our real preference is to purchase an EOY Marriott, rather than an EY unit. There are no EOY deeds at Oceana Palms; if there were, I think that we would have considered it. So, I asked her to check inventory on Ocean Pointe EOY Platinum resale units; they had 3 of them, $23,400. (Oceanside). Crazy high (60% of developer) if you ask me, but we are taken with the area so we will consider (and keep looking on ebay and Redweek).

I felt very prepared and educated, thanks to TUG. Barry, I think you're going to be very happy; those units could be in a magazine!

Best,

Doc

 

[fmr MVCI]

Is the presentation at Ocean Pointe or at the actual site of the new resort?

 

[skidoc]

the presentation is at Ocean Pointe. The have built a model unit there which is dimensionally accurate(except for 1foot of ceiling height). It's very impressive.

 

[Smooth Air]

Thanks, Doc, for your comments. Where is the Oceana Palms model suite?...in the Sailfish building @ Ocean Pointe?

Smooth Air

 

[skidoc]

Yes, up on the second floor.

 

[jerseyfinn]

skidoc,

I'm glad that you had a positive experience. One can certainly learn a lot at a presentation.

Just as you note, Marriott is changing the game a bit with Oceana Palms. The design is definitely upscale and unlike anything they've done thus far with another timeshare. I'm still trying to figure out if Oceana Palms is going to be a one off resort, of if this sort of design is where Marriott is going take some of the other new resorts in the future. Although selling the resort as a family resort ( it will have the usual kiddie things ) I just do not see a family purchasing at Ocean Palms when the Ocean Pointe campus ( which is definitely kid-friendly ) is a 10 to 15 minute stroll up the beach. That said, one of the problems that MVCI is running into system wide is high land acquisition costs on smaller land parcels. Oceana Palms type resorts may their answer to this dilemma.

I'm at Ocean Pointe right now enjoying the beach. I made it up to the construction site and I'm amazed at how quickly they can grow a building. There's superstructure to the 15th floor with a lot of the masonry work complete on the lower levels. I've take lots of photos and will post some of them when I get back to let folks see what is going on. We're not surprised at the smaller footprint of the building ( those plot plans and walking it off last February at Ocean Pointe gave us the approximate feel ). The first building is set well ahead of that neighboring hi-rise to the north. Looks to me as if the second building will pretty much approximate the lie of that building ( the second building will be built as the inverse of the first with units on the side only ). Fortunately I could walk around the entire site at close proximity. There's some space between properties and it is hard to say what the sight lines will really be from the second building. It looks to me as if it will work out similar to Ocean Pointe but without the pyramiding of the view. In our case, we bought ocean front units so nothing will be in our way.

I think that the good news is that Marriott will have two great ocean-sited resorts located all of 1000 yards from each other on the same pristine beach. And there is definitely a lot of differences between them.

Glad you enjoyed your stay at Ocean Pointe. Lots of folks do.

Barry

 

[gailo]

Is anything going on at the old shopping mall site?

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Jerseyfin:

It's amazing that the construction is progressing so well for a project that was just announced late last year or early this year! I hear the sales are actually ahead of goal.

Crystal Shores on Marco Island is also going to have some very unique, first class Villas, yet this is a project that has been in the works for a few years now and doesn't have nearly the same progress.

I visited the Crystal Shores site in March and it appeared that little was happening there, so I am guessing that their actual sales may be somewhat slower (the selling prices are HUGE). The high prices may explain the limited building progress at Crystal Shores.

 

[pwrshift]

Barry ... good report. However, I don't know how 'objective' EricF really is as he's a sales rep with Marriott.

Skidoc,

I think that EricF & KathyPet speak to the objective side of timeshare ownership. .

 

[skidoc]

skidoc,


I think that the good news is that Marriott will have two great ocean-sited resorts located all of 1000 yards from each other on the same pristine beach. And there is definitely a lot of differences between them.

Glad you enjoyed your stay at Ocean Pointe. Lots of folks do.

Barry

This is a great point (pointe? ). It's the same beach, so why not give people choice between two different types of resorts; there's no need to build another Ocean Pointe. It's interesting that the prices are essentially the same among both of the resorts; both great, just different. We are taken with the area and the fact that there are direct flights from BOS to PBI is huge for us. I think that if there was EOY available for Oceana Palms we would have seriously considered it.....my guess is that we'll be in an EOY Ocean Pointe within the next year or so (I would love to finish paying my DVC first )

 

[jerseyfinn]

Jerseyfin:

It's amazing that the construction is progressing so well for a project that was just announced late last year or early this year! I hear the sales are actually ahead of goal.

The same contractor who builds Ocean Pointe is doing Oceana Palms. Perhaps their established working relationship helps them work more synergistically. It could also be the tanking economy which creates less work in general so they've got the contractors full attention.

I had not heard anything about how close to targets resort sales are. I can see folks reacting to the new concept, hi-rise views, and pristine beach, even in this dank economy. It's hard to say how long Marriott holds Oceana Palms under wraps. There was talk for a very long time about an Ocean Pointe 2 type of resort. Rumors had it going up in Jupiter astride a new Marriott hotel as well as in Riveria Beach where it is indeed being built some 1000 yards from Ocean Pointe. I do know that local politics in Riveria Beach were extremely heated and intense regarding the Ocean Mall demolition. Contractors came and went ( Marriott included ). Elections in early 2007 kicked out the old team and brought in new people who are moving forward with a lot of things. I suspect that Marriott had the plans ready and needed only a more favorable group of officials to deal with.

The Marco project is indeed priced much higher, which in this present economy is not going to endear it to potential purchasers. A rep had told me that there were also certain building requirements/restrictions relating to the Marco project which make it more cumbersome to get things going.

Each resort has its own unique history and story to tell. Ocean Pointe is itself a lucky find for Marriott who negotiates with the MacArthur family who owned a hotel on the site. Marriott turns out to be in the right place at the right time . . . and they have the experience of developing properties the right way which is what the MacArthurs wanted ( there's a fountain left over from that hotel near the main pool ). Getting 24 acres of land on the ocean was a coup for Marriott. And you're not gonna see something like that happen again. It's fortunate that instead of creating a gated community for millionaires that Marriott puts up a timeshare which lets ordinary folks enjoy a superlative beach location.

Barry

 

[jerseyfinn]

Barry ... good report. However, I don't know how 'objective' EricF really is as he's a sales rep with Marriott.

Oh but Brian, Eric is also a Marriott owner as well as being as sales rep. He's thrown his money in with the rest of us, so I'd hoist a drink or two with him in the virtual MVC beach bar. Of course I'd let him buy the first round.

Barry

 

[pwrshift]

I think it is very encouraging to see Marriott taking new directions in the design of their upscale timeshares, albeit more costly for buyers than in the past. I would have jumped at Oceana Palms if they offered the variety of suites & townhomes that they recently came up with for their new Grande Lakes Orlando complex - and having a Ritz Carlton and JW Marriott within walking distance is a big plus too...and no doubt the reason they sold the first 300 units in one week.

https://timeshares.marriott-vacations.com/ownership/ebrochures/lakeshore/default.html

It probably was too much to expect them to find land like that on the ocean, but I confess that if they did I'd expand my 6 Marriotts to 8 without much thought, and enjoy the 2 million MR points that came with it. Wow!

In addition to offering townhomes for the first time, the Orlando layouts of the suites are great, and I particularly like the 2 bdrm lockoff feature that nets out as two 1 bdrm suites each with kitchens - what a great find for empty nesters like me:

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg227/pwrshift/2bdtier2lock-off.jpg?t=1218289776

But the 3 bdrm lockoff ain't bad either, but no 2nd kitchen:

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg227/pwrshift/3bdtier3lock-off.jpg?t=1218289360

They've got some work to do, marketing wise, with the Marco project - in both prices and suite design - to make it go. Price without points doesn't cut it in this economy IMO ... and having a much cheaper very nice competitive TS right next door doesn't help.

And what's with Marriott abandoning the big Jacuzzi tubs in the new projects. I hate soaking tubs, but love the jets...maybe it's just age.

Barry ... whether or not EricF bought timeshares as a Marriott sales rep (don't they all at the prices they get??) is not as important to me as feeling he should disclose this conflict in all his posts as I'm probably not the only one he has been sending 'call me to buy' emails within TUG. Marriott (and TUG) may not know he is doing this and I'm sure a lot of other Marriott reps would love to do it too. JMHO

Brian

 

[Eric F]

Barry ... whether or not EricF bought timeshares as a Marriott sales rep (don't they all at the prices they get??) is not as important to me as feeling he should disclose this conflict in all his posts as I'm probably not the only one he has been sending 'call me to buy' emails within TUG. Marriott (and TUG) may not know he is doing this and I'm sure a lot of other Marriott reps would love to do it too. JMHO

Brian

Brian, I understand your view and I also know the BBS posting rules. Here's a link to the rules that prevent such a disclosure. Please review Rule #2: http://tugbbs.com/forums/tug_rules.php

I hope you have a chance to review my past posts and consider the positive contributions I try to make for this forum.

Eric

 

[pwrshift]

Thanks Eric, I do think you are in a position to be very informative for TUG members, have appreciated your posts and want you to continue. In fact, I don't know why other Marriott reps haven't done the same.

However, it was only after you sent me a Tug private message suggesting I make contact to buy from you at Grande Lakes that I discovered that you were commecially involved in using TUG.

I don't mean to suggest your posts promoted your business, it was your 'after use' of the TUG PM system that bothered me some. I already had a Marriott rep taking care of my interests and found it confusing that you felt you could strike a better deal for me. Most others on the Marriott board you may PM probably have good reps too. If the BBS (and Marriott) permits that, so be it.

Brian

 

[jerseyfinn]

Brian,

To be perfectly frank, I think that your'e splitting hairs with your disclosure argument. Eric is what he is. He is both a sales rep and an owner which is true of many of the sales staff. In my own experience most of these folks understand what we Marriott oweners are all about quite well. I myself judged Eric's post in this thread purely on the context of his words, just as I did another owner who said some things that I felt were misleading and uncalled for. In this thread, Eric's words rang 100% true. We are all a product of what we post here. The context and consistency of our posts tells everyone here what we are each all about. If Eric was misleading or making remarks he should not make I think that lots of us would call him to task.

Likewise I call into question your assertion that Marriott is charging more for these weeks at new resorts across the board. There is a $500 price differential between Ocean Pointe and Ocean Palms . . . the later is the cheaper resort. No doubt that Marriott does this to spur interest in Oceana Palms. But it is what it is. I've also been told by others here on resort that sales at Oceana Palms are ahead of projected goals. This surprises me given the economy. But we've met a few folks here at Ocean Pointe who are also going ahead with purchases at Oceana Palms. Looks like Marriott has identified a market. Then again, that's why they have 50 resorts to fit all of the different tastes and desires that folks have. There's lots of ways to skin a cat and lots of ways to do timeshare. If I had to choose, I think I'd rather tackle the later.

Barry

 

[pwrshift]

Barry ... I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but until Eric sent me an unsolicited PM requesting that I switch from my current sales rep to him as he could get me a better deal, I didn't know he was a Marriott sales rep and did appreciate his posts on context. Guess I didn't like him using TUG as a source of sales leads behind the scenes. Now I know ... but others may not.

I read my posts in this thread again and I don't see where I asserted that Marriott is charging across the board increases at all their resorts ... but that Marco was way overpriced IMO and not sweetening it with points. If there's a $500 difference between OP and the new one, that's great...but you're no doubt talking current controlled pricing and not the fact OP platinums started out around $13,000 with a world trip to MBP owners. I still kick myself for turning that one down.

Prices have gone up over the years ... my last purchases were in 2001 and 2002 were lockoffs and each one came with a half million points for a buy in price of less than $18,000 plus non-use...when Can$ were 62cents. They almost got me with Grande Lakes on the lockoff 2 bedroom (2 kitchen) layout and a million points for $33,000 or so, but I resisted. If I could get that suite for that price and points at Oceana Palms I'd be your neighbour.

On another matter, last week I won a Starwood gift certificate for a 5 night stay in a two bedrm suite on Singer Island (Resort at Singer Island) that I didn't know existed ... but it must be just up the street from OP and the new one. I went to the website and it does look nice, like an upscale TS with great reviews. Have you ever checked it out? I managed to book it for mid Feb, just before my 4 week stay at MBP starts.

http://specialoffers.starwoodhotels...lCa_Google_singer_island_resort_103006_NAD_FM


Brian

 

[skidoc]

Brian:

While we were at Ocean Pointe we visited the Spa (called SiSpa) at the Resort at Singer Island. The spa is fantastic, very upscale. We both had massages, aaahhhhhhh! The building is very attractive, the lobby is gorgeous; we didn't see the units but my wife was talking to someone staying there who said the suites were spectacular. 100% Valet parking there, but comped if you used the spa. I think the resort is at most a couple of years old.

My wife and I commented after visiting there that it would have been nice if Marriott had put an upscale spa and restaurant in Oceana Palms as that would have differentiated it further from Ocean Pointe.

It was my understanding that, in addition to hotel and TS units in the Resort at Singer Island, there are full-ownership condos as well.