Ocean Pointe downgrading II OF units in advance

[Saintsfanfl]

This is the first time I have seen Ocean Pointe do this in advance. It's happened to me a few times at check-in where an OF became an OS but never seen it changed on marriott.com a week prior to check-in. It's interesting because their welcome email now states that you will be placed in your II unit designation without exception.

We will assign you into the unit type that you are confirmed via Interval International or Owner Services. The resort does not have access to alter or review any exchange availability.

I realize they make the statement to head off upgrade requests but the above is obviously untrue since my reservation was indeed changed. It's pretty normal for places like Barony since it is their policy to downgrade exchanges so clearly all resorts have this capability. I think their short answer is going to be they do not alter unit size but they can alter view, but a tugger once reported that they changed their rez from a standard 2BR to a 2BR of a 3BR LO which is a very big difference.

Yes I know view is not guaranteed but for years Ocean Pointe did not alter the unit view that you receive from II. It's not necessarily a bad thing though since with Ocean Pointe you have a better chance at a view with an OS exchange unit since the first two OF floors are completely blocked from any view of the water. Excluding Kingfish there are only 7 OF units total of each type for each check-in day. Only 4 of the 7 have a clear view of the water. OF greatly limits the possible units you can ever be placed in without even getting to priority placement.

 

[SueDonJ]

I'm confused. The title of the thread conflicts with what you've quoted, which in turn seems to conflict with what they're doing to an upcoming reservation you're holding?

They seem to be constantly tweaking the language of pre-arrival emails, and follow-ups to them, more and more lately. A couple weeks ago I had one for Phuket Beach Club; in the box asking for consecutive/concurrent reservation numbers - which TUGgers suggest can be used to input text - there was a new red-ink blurb saying not to put anything but reservation numbers into it!

Seems clear the intent is for MVW to be trying to get the word out that they don't have to honor unit/view types attached to II confirmations and that they're discouraging all but the basic "high/low floor, near elevator, etc." requests. Whether the individual resorts follow the directive is still a crapshoot.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I have an OF unit on an II exchange that was recently changed on marriott.com to OS. I know they have the ability to do that even though they claim they do not, but it's the first time I have ever seen them change it in advance at Ocean Pointe. I even confirmed it being an OF unit with Ocean Pointe a week ago but then it was changed. Not complaining, just stating the facts.

Seems clear the intent is for MVW to be trying to get the word out that they don't have to honor unit/view types attached to II confirmations

That's fine if they would just state that, but they instead claim that they will not alter it in any way, which is clearly false. It had been true for Ocean Pointe and it is even stated in a document on myvacationclub but that statement is now obsolete. It's still there and it's been the same document for over a decade but it needs updating. I doubt the priority list is still the same as well. Changing it was much needed since it does not allow for DC points reservations in the priority list.

 

[SueDonJ]

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I have an OF unit on an II exchange that was recently changed on marriott.com to OS. I know they have the ability to do that even though they claim they do not, but it's the first time I have ever seen them change it in advance at Ocean Pointe. I even confirmed it being an OF unit with Ocean Pointe a week ago but then it was changed. Not complaining, just stating the facts.



That's fine if they would just state that, but they instead claim that they will not alter it in any way, which is clearly false. It had been true for Ocean Pointe and it is even stated in a document on myvacationclub but that statement is now obsolete. It's still there and it's been the same document for over a decade but it needs updating. I doubt the priority list is still the same as well. Changing it was much needed since it does not allow for DC points reservations in the priority list.

Sorry, I thought maybe I was reading something wrong. Now I get it - that quoted statement is on something that's been in use but is now contradicted by a new something.

I'm right there with you thinking that Marriott should be more clear in their communications - it's an ongoing issue.

 

[dioxide45]

This is interesting. I guess the only way to guaranty an OF unit at Ocean Pointe is to exchange in to a 3BR unit.

Perhaps that quoted statement is there to prevent people trying to get an upgrade from a studio to a 1BR, a 1BR to a 2BR, etc. Not so much from an OS to an OF. For the most part, unless you check out the reservation details on Marriott.com or know about the Marriott II Unit Code List here on TUG, most people never know the view of their unit.

When getting a 2BR LO unit, I actually prefer the OS since with an OF there is a 50/50 chance of being in Kingfish.

 

[chriskre]

I had the front desk tell me that exchangers would never get an oceanfront unit and that they reserve those only for owners.

 

[SMHarman]

This is interesting. So the owner gets the trade power of an OF Unit in their contract with II.
The owner may get an OF in another part of the II system because of that but the exchangee never gets to see it.
How is that legal?

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk

 

[tschwa2]

Owners don't get the power of the view. They get the power of the resort/week. Many resorts sub out the better view deposits.

As soon as the DC points chart came out in 2010 where you could pay more points for a better view, I had the feeling that the days of getting the deposited view with II were numbered. I'm surprised it took this long to change.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I had the front desk tell me that exchangers would never get an oceanfront unit and that they reserve those only for owners.

This can only be true of the 2BR or possibly portion of variety but I do believe it otherwise. It matches most of my experiences. When I personally checked in to a 2BR I always got OF if it was on my exchange, but then again I was also an Ocean Pointe owner. They were very clear in their communications though that I was not guaranteed OF and their manual email confirm actually showed it as OS. This was 3 years ago.

I have not personally had an OF exchange since I sold my OP units but I have given GC's to several family members and co-workers. One was a 3BR so naturally that was OF. The other was a 1BR. The person checked in a day late and ended up on the top floor OS rather than OF. The one coming up was changed to OS so will clearly be OS.

It's good they are changing it on marriott.com but they should probably do it early on. I can see some people being upset if they print out an OF confirmation only to be placed in OS.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

When getting a 2BR LO unit, I actually prefer the OS since with an OF there is a 50/50 chance of being in Kingfish.

I always state NO KINGFISH on my requests. I've never been placed there so far. It might not be the reason for the marriott.com change but could be a factor since the one I am referring to is an OFTM (1BR side of 2BR OF).

 

[Seaport104]

I had the front desk tell me that exchangers would never get an oceanfront unit and that they reserve those only for owners.

Guess my bubble just burst! I was super excited that I was able to get the 2BR and studio side of the 3 BR unit in the hopes that they would put it together for me for next May. Bummer that I spent all that time calling II to book those specific unit codes

 

[sb2313]

Have there been any other reports of a change from a 2/6/6 OF(non lockoff) to a 2/6/8 lockoff Oceanside room? Just curious as this would be a big deal for those of us that intentionally avoid lockoffs due to little kids(and not wanting extra doors out of the room...)

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Guess my bubble just burst! I was super excited that I was able to get the 2BR and studio side of the 3 BR unit in the hopes that they would put it together for me for next May. Bummer that I spent all that time calling II to book those specific unit codes

They will still probably do it. Ocean Pointe will put units together if at all possible. I have even had them put units together for me that were not even the same check-in days. You have a 2BR OF so matching the studio is not a stretch.

It's also possible they will give you OS instead of the 2BR OF. They are not really in violation since the OS unit exceeds the unit code you have in sleeping capacity. You have position to complain though since you may actually want those two separate twin beds. They could then argue back that you get an extra sofa bed.

There is another thread where a Tugger reported that they were placed in a 2BR OS instead of the 2BR OF portion of a 3BR.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Have there been any other reports of a change from a 2/6/6 OF(non lockoff) to a 2/6/8 lockoff Oceanside room? Just curious as this would be a big deal for those of us that intentionally avoid lockoffs due to little kids(and not wanting extra doors out of the room...)

Yes. It's in another thread but it could take me a while to find it. Someone definitely reported this happening and I believe it was in 2014.

 

[sb2313]

Sorry, should've clarified- has anyone had this happen since. I definitely remember that thread, just was curious if they're making a habit of it.

 

[chriskre]

This can only be true of the 2BR or possibly portion of variety but I do believe it otherwise. It matches most of my experiences. When I personally checked in to a 2BR I always got OF if it was on my exchange, but then again I was also an Ocean Pointe owner. They were very clear in their communications though that I was not guaranteed OF and their manual email confirm actually showed it as OS. This was 3 years ago.

I have not personally had an OF exchange since I sold my OP units but I have given GC's to several family members and co-workers. One was a 3BR so naturally that was OF. The other was a 1BR. The person checked in a day late and ended up on the top floor OS rather than OF. The one coming up was changed to OS so will clearly be OS.

It's good they are changing it on marriott.com but they should probably do it early on. I can see some people being upset if they print out an OF confirmation only to be placed in OS.

Good to know that all the 3 bedrooms are OF.
They put me in the Kingsail bldg which is great for going with my
80 yo Mom since they have the zero entry pool and the long handrail.
Do you know if they have 3 bedrooms in this building?
Or are the other pools also similar zero entry handicap friendly?

 

[dioxide45]

Good to know that all the 3 bedrooms are OF.
They put me in the Kingsail bldg which is great for going with my
80 yo Mom since they have the zero entry pool and the long handrail.
Do you know if they have 3 bedrooms in this building?
Or are the other pools also similar zero entry handicap friendly?

There is a lift in the pool between Cobia and Pompano, there may be other at the other pools, but I never looked. None of the pools in the main section are zero entry.

I think the reason for the zero entry at Kingfish is because it is newer and when it was built that was the required code.

 

[chriskre]

There is a lift in the pool between Cobia and Pompano, there may be other at the other pools, but I never looked. None of the pools in the main section are zero entry.

I think the reason for the zero entry at Kingfish is because it is newer and when it was built that was the required code.

Oh Mom is too embarrassed to use the lift.
I've tried, but she loves the zero entry pools, so I guess it's Kingsail for us from now on. Glad they have it.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Oh Mom is too embarrassed to use the lift.
I've tried, but she loves the zero entry pools, so I guess it's Kingsail for us from now on. Glad they have it.

I believe there are 3BR units in Kingfish but not very many at all. Maybe only a couple. I thought there was a post a few years back that specified how many.

 

[dioxide45]

I believe there are 3BR units in Kingfish but not very many at all. Maybe only a couple. I thought there was a post a few years back that specified how many.

I beleive only 5 units, in the north east corner with one on each floor. So many more in the main section.

 

[Superchief]

A few MVC resorts are now downgrading confirmed views on II exchanges, including Ocean Pointe and Grand Ocean. Since an owner of the confirmed view deposited it for exchange, something is wrong here. Since ocean front views receive a premium in the VC program, I'm concerned that there are profit motives for the downgrades in view.

I've owned MVC resorts since Royal Palms was built and I've never been upgraded to a view above what I owned. Therefore, I doubt that these upgrades are going to home resort owners. Therefore, something is wrong with this trend.:annoyed:

 

[dioxide45]

I always state NO KINGFISH on my requests. I've never been placed there so far. It might not be the reason for the marriott.com change but could be a factor since the one I am referring to is an OFTM (1BR side of 2BR OF).

This might be part of it. A few years back we did have a 2BR LO OF confirmation and indicated NO KINGFISH. I even went as far to say we would take an OS unit in the main section over an OF unit in Kingfish. We were downgraded to the OS unit, but did get one of the buildings in the main section. So perhaps for you it was either OF in Kingfish or OS in the main section. So OS it is?

 

[SueDonJ]

A few MVC resorts are now downgrading confirmed views on II exchanges, including Ocean Pointe and Grand Ocean. Since an owner of the confirmed view deposited it for exchange, something is wrong here. Since ocean front views receive a premium in the VC program, I'm concerned that there are profit motives for the downgrades in view.

I've owned MVC resorts since Royal Palms was built and I've never been upgraded to a view above what I owned. Therefore, I doubt that these upgrades are going to home resort owners. Therefore, something is wrong with this trend.:annoyed:

It's always been true that views are not guaranteed with II exchanges, and as far back as I remember it's been made clear by the HHI resorts with floating Weeks that they follow a system of placing II exchangers into gardenview, oceanside and oceanfront/oceanvista (at SurfWatch) available units in that order. (Obviously there have been exceptions but for the most part that's been the system.) Since the DC it appears Marriott is extending that system to other resorts but going by TUG reports it doesn't seem as though any follow the directive as strictly as the HHI resorts always have.

Regardless of the DC, Owners using their owned Weeks at their home resorts are guaranteed to be placed into the unit type that they own with no upgrades or downgrades (with only extremely rare exceptions.) Prior to the DC any Weeks given up by Owners for other usage or any Weeks not reserved by Owners by a certain point were available to be rented by Marriott and it was common practice for Marriott to switch those out with II deposits to satisfy rental requests as well as other usage (preview guests, etc.) Since the DC, Marriott can also switch out Owner Weeks exchanged for DC Points with II deposits in order to satisfy DC requests along with rentals, previews, etc.

As long as Weeks Owners who don't elect any other usage but home resort usage are able to reserve whatever intervals should be available to them based on the inventory controls and are placed into the guaranteed view type that they own, then Marriott has rights to finagle (for lack of a better word) the remaining intervals in myriad other ways including through II. It happened before the DC although it maybe wasn't as apparent then. Since the DC it's quite obvious because Marriott has been transparent in stating that II deposits can be used to satisfy DC requests.

You're absolutely correct that profit drives the engine. But it's not being done at the expense of Owners/Members not receiving what's rightfully theirs - Marriott has always had the rights to manipulate inventory remaining after Owners select their usage in conformance with the rules (which when you think about it, shows the brilliance of Marriott's product designers in that the Points system was able to integrate as completely with the Weeks system so many years later.)

 

[Superchief]

Prior to the DC any Weeks given up by Owners for other usage or any Weeks not reserved by Owners by a certain point were available to be rented by Marriott and it was common practice for Marriott to switch those out with II deposits to satisfy rental requests as well as other usage (preview guests, etc.) Since the DC, Marriott can also switch out Owner Weeks exchanged for DC Points with II deposits in order to satisfy DC requests along with rentals, previews, etc.

You're absolutely correct that profit drives the engine. But it's not being done at the expense of Owners/Members not receiving what's rightfully theirs - Marriott has always had the rights to manipulate inventory remaining after Owners select their usage in conformance with the rules (which when you think about it, shows the brilliance of Marriott's product designers in that the Points system was able to integrate as completely with the Weeks system so many years later.)

I have to admit, MVC is brilliant in finding ways to enhance their profitability. They sell the ocean front units at a significant premium. Then, when owners either exchange through II or redeem for points (MR or VC) they keep the premium weeks and rent them at a profit. Only those who actually use their owned weeks truly get what they pay for. The profit from an II exchange or MR point conversion is likely higher than the 'skim' received on VC point deposit. Nobody truly knows what goes on behind the scenes regarding MVC's inventory allocation in points and II exchanges. They could be taking all of the ocean front deposits and returning garden views.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

They could be taking all of the ocean front deposits and returning garden views.

Where they can they probably are but I think this more relates to II's agreement with member resorts than it does with MVC. No exchanges guarantee view or specific unit. Some resorts keep it the same because it might be easier logistically, but I think their agreement with II gives them the right to swap out as they please. The only thing they are supposedly committed to is the unit type details like kitchen, bedrooms, and private and total capacity.

It makes sense that nobody ever gets credit for view on a deposit. II has given all the resorts the right to swap out the unit.