Ocean Pointe 2023 MF's - More Than 25% Increase !! / Kingfish Roof [MERGED]

[billymach4]

Attached

 

[billymach4]

Does anyone know a good way to get a sharp image from a pdf to copy/edit/paste or attach to a post here?
The images are not posting with a clear readable format.

 

[dioxide45]

The 2022 Replacement Reserve for a 2BR Plat was $525.72. This year they are saying they would like to keep it between $850 and $1,100 and landed on setting it at $992.35 as an estimate. But they are also adding the ~$200 special assessment. That SA comes to $3,481,533. They anticipate the Kingfish remediation to cost $4,460,731. So it seems they are going to either take the extra million from the Replacement Reserves or from the Operating Capital (2022 overage) that they are carrying in to 2023 as a "slush fund". This all seems very off. What is the explanation for the huge increase in the "Replacement Fee". Why would it need to go up $350 to $600 when they are also adding a special assessment fee that covers most of the repairs needed to Kingfish?

 

[dioxide45]

Adding. Looking at the documents attached. The BOD financials meeting is set for November 9, 2022. This is not yet a finalized budget. I would still really question why they need to set the "Reserve Fee" between $850 and $1,100 when the prior year fee was more in the $550 range. That makes no sense, especially when collecting the SA.

I wonder if the Reserve Fee range isn't a mandatory calculation based on some FL statute. Fully funding the reserve at the $1209.51 amount may also be taking in to consideration fully repairing all the issues at hand with Kingfish that they are also special assessing for.

 

[Vacation1]

Here is the Ocean Pointe finalized budget that is listed on the MVC website with the invoice.

 

[SueDonJ]

Here is the Ocean Pointe finalized budget that is listed on the MVC website with the invoice.

So there are two Reserves line items, the usual and a "Special Reserves Fee."

The assessed Special Reserves are 2BR = $194.53 and 3BR = $234.05. (IMO, that's not an outrageous amount if it's a one-time assessment dedicated to Kingfish issues.)

But the usual Reserves are 2BR $709.72 and 3BR $853.87, which the line item says is a 35% increase?!?! These are high compared to my SurfWatch 3BR which this year assessed $446.25 for Reserves, PLUS they're looking at extending the reno/refurb schedule from the usual 5yrs to 6yrs?!?! Wow.

{eta} I'm still assuming that the Ocean Pointe 3BR MF's posted in the sticky thread and copied in Post #5 in this thread are the actual billed MF's, confirmed by the $1,087.92 Reserves billed -$853.87 and $234.05 = $1,087.92.

(That's it for me, I've reached my math quota through at least June 2023.)

 

[Steve Fatula]

Why not contact the BOD? I did last year for a different property to clear up some questions about the MF, got an answer within a day. Or are they not reachable? Seems better than speculating?

 

[dioxide45]

Best I can tell from my math is that the management fee is not being levied against the special assessment. But the entire SA doesn't cover the full cost of Kingfish remediation so it looks like they have also inflated the Reserve Fee pretty significantly, perhaps to cover the additional $1 million in repairs. That full Reserve Fee is used to calculate the 10% management fee.

 

[Superchief]

Best I can tell from my math is that the management fee is not being levied against the special assessment. But the entire SA doesn't cover the full cost of Kingfish remediation so it looks like they have also inflated the Reserve Fee pretty significantly, perhaps to cover the additional $1 million in repairs. That full Reserve Fee is used to calculate the 10% management fee.

This was probably a key reason that they decided to cover it in the regular reserve fee so poor management can be rewarded with increased income. Owners need to find ways to provide their dissatisfaction with management and the boards for this and some other resorts that are taking advantage of their authority.

 

[Luvtoride]

My 2 cents. I'm not trying to play devil's advocate, but repairs and maintenance of these properties is a cost that all of us owners share.
I own a 3-bedroom week at Ocean Pointe and am not happy about the increase in MF and the Special Assessment either, but it has to be paid for. Damages such as the roof at the Kingfish building could not have been anticipated or avoided by any management action.

A few years ago, our resort sustained damage from a hurricane (I forget which one) which caused an increase in MFs due to insurance deductible costs and higher insurance premiums subsequently. Although not handled as a special assessment, we still had to pay these costs.
As was noted in letter from the board, other cost saving measures will be considered to control costs going forward, such as adding a year to the villa renovation cycle.

We all knew what we were signing up for when purchasing our timeshares (and are reminded of by all of the "timeshare exit company" ads). Its unfortunate that its hitting at the same time as inflationary cost increases that almost every timeshare owner is experiencing this year. I know that I will still enjoy my visits to the beach at Singer Island and consider my out of pocket annual cost reasonable for the type of resort and accommodations we have there.
Happy Holidays to all.

 

[billymach4]

My 2 cents. I'm not trying to play devil's advocate, but repairs and maintenance of these properties is a cost that all of us owners share.
I own a 3-bedroom week at Ocean Pointe and am not happy about the increase in MF and the Special Assessment either, but it has to be paid for. Damages such as the roof at the Kingfish building could not have been anticipated or avoided by any management action.

A few years ago, our resort sustained damage from a hurricane (I forget which one) which caused an increase in MFs due to insurance deductible costs and higher insurance premiums subsequently. Although not handled as a special assessment, we still had to pay these costs.
As was noted in letter from the board, other cost saving measures will be considered to control costs going forward, such as adding a year to the villa renovation cycle.

We all knew what we were signing up for when purchasing our timeshares (and are reminded of by all of the "timeshare exit company" ads). Its unfortunate that its hitting at the same time as inflationary cost increases that almost every timeshare owner is experiencing this year. I know that I will still enjoy my visits to the beach at Singer Island and consider my out of pocket annual cost reasonable for the type of resort and accommodations we have there.
Happy Holidays to all.

Yeah! It's the price we pay for our small slice of paradise.

 

[dioxide45]

What I don't understand is why total reserves (SA and Replacement Fee) are up nearly $400? Looking at that there is a total of an additional $6.75 million being collected for reserves. This is in addition to the $1 million in Operating Capital that appears to be a carry over of excess operating fee collected in 2021/2022 that simply isn't being given back to owners to keep the fees down.Why does the resort need nearly $8 million for something that is going to cost under $5 million. Why do they need to increase the reserve line item so much? Especially when they are moving to a six year refurbishment cycle which is meant to keep the fees lower. I understand the SA, but why not break it out completly from the Reserve Fee? Why a $184 per 2BR Plat unit week increase in the Reserve Fee?

 

[SueDonJ]

My 2 cents. I'm not trying to play devil's advocate, but repairs and maintenance of these properties is a cost that all of us owners share.
I own a 3-bedroom week at Ocean Pointe and am not happy about the increase in MF and the Special Assessment either, but it has to be paid for. Damages such as the roof at the Kingfish building could not have been anticipated or avoided by any management action.

A few years ago, our resort sustained damage from a hurricane (I forget which one) which caused an increase in MFs due to insurance deductible costs and higher insurance premiums subsequently. Although not handled as a special assessment, we still had to pay these costs.
As was noted in letter from the board, other cost saving measures will be considered to control costs going forward, such as adding a year to the villa renovation cycle.

We all knew what we were signing up for when purchasing our timeshares (and are reminded of by all of the "timeshare exit company" ads). Its unfortunate that its hitting at the same time as inflationary cost increases that almost every timeshare owner is experiencing this year. I know that I will still enjoy my visits to the beach at Singer Island and consider my out of pocket annual cost reasonable for the type of resort and accommodations we have there.
Happy Holidays to all.

Brian, I completely agree that if/when there are valid reasons for dues increases then I don't begrudge the HOA boards assessing the ownership those fees. It's the process that's stipulated in the governing docs, but more importantly (IMO) it's what the owners should expect to happen if they want the high-quality Marriott-brand-standard to continue at their resorts.

But as someone else who has been assessed the same hurricane-related fees that you were assessed a few years ago, that were indicated as "Disaster Recovery Fees" line items at two of my resorts (and all of the HHI resorts) over a couple years, there is a right way and a wrong way for the HOA board to advise the ownership at large what's happening at the resort and why MF increases that don't conform to the norm are required. Even if they don't use the specific term "Special Assessment" and the Operating Budgets include line items to cover them that aren't familiar to owners, that doesn't mean they've done something wrong.

But in this case neither the Operating Budget nor the letter from the board fully explain what's happening at Ocean Pointe. Look at @dioxide45's post #62 - all of those questions are valid and should have been answered by the board before the owners even had a chance to ask them. Another question is, is this "Special Reserves Fee" a one-time thing, or might another be expected next year? The letter says work will be ongoing so it's possible new issues might arise that require more fees than what were budgeted. The letter also says that any shortfall might be covered by excess funds already in the Reserves and marked for roof-related needs, but if that's the case why is the normal Reserves line-item increase this year - not counting the separate Special Reserves Fee - as high as 35%?!

Again, I agree with you that the costs are charge-able to the owners and neither Marriott nor the board are wrong to assess owners for fees related to resort upkeep/repairs/refurbs. But there's absolutely no reason for Marriott/the board to not give owners a full explanation when fees are so far outside the normal parameters for MF's. This board's actions don't engender goodwill or trust, not by any stretch of the imagination, and if they don't want Bad Debt to increase exponentially then they'll respond correctly to the criticism AND the lingering questions.

 

[billymach4]

Why not contact the BOD? I did last year for a different property to clear up some questions about the MF, got an answer within a day. Or are they not reachable? Seems better than speculating?

I will be drafting a letter along with an email. I will be calling privately via DM for some technical accounting speak to key players in this thread
Hopefully I can get to this by next Monday. No promises on the time-line. Just like everyone else I would like answers

 

[dougp26364]

I suppose it could be worse. I was reading an owner complain on a FB Abound group that their Westin St. week was now $5,100/year. If true I wonder what their default rate is on those weeks?

My complaint with the OP BOD is lack of transparency with how owners money is being spent. I understand maintenance. I understand unforeseen additional expenses. What I don’t understand is why there is no communication to explain why, how and where they are spending owners money. Several resorts we own send out newsletters that detail what is going on, what is currently being refurbished and what the plans are for future refurbishments (painting, tiles, carpeting, appliances, pool maintenance et……). We get nothing from the Ocean Pointe BOD

Owners wouldn’t feel ambushed if the BOD had communicated the unexpected need, the price, timeline and estimated costs per ownership. It would have been nice if owners had been given options that we could have communicated our preferences back to the BOD. I would expect the BOD to make the financial decisions of how to pay for the repairs/renovations as they felt best but,I would also have expected they would take owners opinion into consideration, then send out their rationalization for the path they’ve taken.

Handling things as they have creates suspicion, anger and resentment. I resent feeling as if the BOD believes I’m to stupid to understand the complexity of the situation. I’m suspicious because the numbers don’t appear to add up. I’m angry because I had no warning and I wasn’t afforded the opportunity to adjust my budget to pay for this expense.

Right now I have several projects going on around my home. Some are rather expensive and need to be done sooner rather than later. Some must be done now. Others could have been postponed a month or two. An extra $500 at the end of the year really isn’t enough to bankrupt most owners if it’s a one off event. However, in the context of the holiday season and extra expenses some owners might have, knowing ahead of time allows for adjustments to be made.

My personal feeling are that the BOD and current resort manager don’t care about the owners and fails to take into consideration each individual account may not be able to come up with that extra $500 easily at the end of the year. They’ll do what they want and the owners can pound sand, which is about all we can do at this point.

 

[Luvtoride]

. But there's absolutely no reason for Marriott/the board to not give owners a full explanation when fees are so far outside the normal parameters for MF's. This board's actions don't engender goodwill or trust, not by any stretch of the imagination, and if they don't want Bad Debt to increase exponentially then they'll respond correctly to the criticism AND the lingering questions.

SueDon, true, but there is nothing we can do about the fees, even with better more transparent communication. I suppose we can act with our votes at the next board election time.

 

[billymach4]

In preparation for my letter to the Ocean Pointe Management and BOD can the experts in this thread please point me to where I might find the individual Director names and address, email where they will receive official correspondence?

@dougp26364 I will use your example of communication and request OP BOD take a better tack of communication. Let's see how far it gets me? I will certainly let them know TUG members are watching and reading.

I am secretly hoping someone at Mother MVC is reading our displeasure at this moment.

 

[dougp26364]

When it comes down to it, I believe the largest failure lies with the resort manager. IMHO that’s the central hub of communication between the BOD and owners. It would also be the person on the ground at all times with the resort and the person who should always know what’s going on.

The BOD has a job to do. One of which should be ensuring effective communication is taking place. They’re who the owners rely on to communicate owners wants/needs to the resort manager.

Essentially I view this as a complete failure on all parties involved and reflects poorly on the Marriott name. Someone above the resort manager and the BOD needs to take a look at this fiasco and make some decisions.

If I fail this spectacularly at my job, I know there are consequences. If I fail repeatedly at the same task, reassignment or termination become real possibilities.

I need three things. I need the resort manager and BOD to recognize there is a problem. I want to know the plan to fix this problem. Finally I’d like an apology and a complete explanation and breakdown of the current situation, including estimates of future costs/expenditures. I’ve done enough construction projects to know that exact figures aren’t possible but reasonable estimates are, including worst case scenarios.

At this point nearly all owners should have received communication. We’ve been owners since 2001 and we are Chairman level owners. To date I’ve received no communication and, since I’m using Apple products, haven’t been able to access my accounts online.

Funny story. At Crystal Shores their computers in the lobby where we printed our boarding passes were Macs.

 

[Superchief]

I'm traveling now and haven't been home to check my mail (I still want paper copies of annual MF's). I'm anxious to see the detailed budget for this and my other resorts. It appears to me that more money is being spent on unnecessary things in order to inflate their resort ratings. Owners are becoming the minority at many resorts, so the management has less incentive to manage expenses. I've noticed that MF increases at most resorts have exceeded the increase of MF for points. This leads me to believe that the point reservations aren't providing their fair share of annual expenses for the resorts.

I spoke with a MVC employee recently who said that MVC is trying to get rid of the weeks owners so they can convert the whole system to points. This may be their method of accomplishing that goal: get owners mad enough to sell so they can repurchase it at below market prices.

 

[billymach4]

 

[billymach4]

October 24, 2022
We are preparing once again for the fall meetings of the Ocean Pointe Finance Committee, the Board of
and the Annual Meeting ofthe Members. Enclosed, please find more details about the days and times of Directors,
meetings, all of which you are welcome to attend! Also enclosed IS the proposed
these
2023 Maintenance Fee The
State represents ofF thes fully funded amount. Therefore, the. Reserve Fee included on this proposed budget i is S1, 209. 51.
Florida requires the Association to submit proposed budget to you with a Reserve Fee amount that
Because of the method used to calculate and anticipate Reserve expenses, your Board of Directors has always
recommended waiving the requirement to fully fund the Reserves. With fully funding requiring
higher level of
Reserve contribution, your Board of Directors, with management company support, has prescribed to a cashflow
funding methodology which accounts for anticipated useful life of the resort's assets and ensures appropriate fund
balances will be in place to address future anticipated replacements
Dear Marriott'`s Ocean Pointe Owner:
In years past the fully funded amount has been significantly higher than the range recommended by the Board of
Directors. For 2023 you will notice the fully funded amount is $ 1,209.5 1 whereas the Board of Director's
recommended range is $850 - $ 1,100. The recommended range represents Reserve contribution required to fiund
our current 20-year renovations and the timing of urgent repairs to the Kingfish Building. Specifically, the
Kingfish Building will undergo extensive roof repair and replacement, along with the building's 20-year
renovation. Due to the nature of this special project, a special Reserve Fee is being collected as part of the 2023
overall Maintenance Fee, instead of a special assessment. This unanticipated major repair is due to deterioration
of the metal support structure of the Kingfish Building's roof from its direct exposure to salt water during
likelihood hurricanes. of The this problem remediation the will future. include roof coatings and applications
which willl help to greatly reduce the
The enclosed budget represents proposed amounts for the Operating Expenses and the Property Tax Fee. Ifthe
waiving fully funding from the reserves Operating Fee shown on this budget, and therefore the net proposed
passes, the Reserve Fee wll be lower than shown. The Management
the
issue off
Fee willl then? also ber reduced
increase for the 2023 Maintenance Fee would be in the range of 25% to 35% instead of the 43% to 46% increase
shown.
I am happy to report the Dolphin Building and Cobia Building will have completed their 20-year renovations by
year end, 2022. Additionally, renovation of the activities center, splash pad, Cobia and Sailfish Pool restrooms are
also planned for completion by year end. By year end 2023, in addition to an almost brand-new Kingfish
Building, nearly the entire resort campus will have been updated. The 20-year renovation of Pompano Building
and fitness center will be scheduled for 2024. Y our support has a huge impact on the resort experience!
As a member of the Association, your comments and/or presence are welcome at the Budget Meetings. The Board
of Directors will consider comments from Owners prior to taking any formal action on the proposed budget. As
noted on the enclosed proposed Agenda, open budget discussion with Members of the Association is scheduled
from 11:00 a.m. until 11:15 a.m. on November 9, 2022. A fter it is approved, a copy of the final 2023 Budget will
be mailed to Owners with the Maintenance Fee statements.
The Annual Meeting of Ocean Pointe at Palm Beach Shores Condominium Association, Ine. will be held on
November 9, 2022, at 1:00 p.m, the same day as the Board of Directors Meeting. Please take note of the location
of these Mectings to be held at the Palm Beach Gardens Marriott (see Reader Board for exact meeting room
location), 4000 RCA Boulevard, Palm Beach Gardens, Florida 334 10. To accommodate Owners planning to
attend any of these mectings, please RSVP to Kristina Gregg, Executive Administrator, by phone at 561-882-3008
or by email at Kristina.Gregg@vacationclub.com by November 4, 2022. If you have any questions regarding the
enclosed material, please contact me by phone at 561-882-3030 or by email at
Andrew.Mitchell@vacationclub.com.
Very sincerely yours,
Andrew Mitchell
General Manager
Marriott's Ocean Pointe

 

[billymach4]

Ocean Pointe at Palm Beach Shores Condominium Association, Inc. Finance Committee Meeting

November 8, 2022 9:00am, Eleme

Mamed's Ocean Pointe

Sailfish Lounge 71 Ocean Avenue Palm Beach Shores, Florida 33404

Agenda

• Call Onder

Establishment of Quorum and Roll Call

Appointment of Maming Chairperson

Appointment of Recording Secretary

Proof of Notice of Finance Commitee Meeting

Approval of Agenda

Approval of Finance Commitee Meeting Minutes May 17, 2002 Finance C Mos

September 2, 2022 Finance Ca tee Meeting Minun September 20, 2022 Finance Co Meeting Minutes

October 6, 2022 Finance Co mie Mriting Minutes

Investment Upda

Review of 2022 Financials and Forecast

Operating Fund Reserve Fund

Property Tax Fed Maintenance Fee Accounts Receivable

Reserve Fund Projects Review

Review of Proposed 2023 Emed Opering Badges

New Business

Establishes of 2023 Finance Come Meeting DatesOcean Pointe at Palm Beach Shores Condominium Association, Inc. Finance Committee Meeting

November 8, 2022 9:00am, Eleme

Mamed's Ocean Pointe

Sailfish Lounge 71 Ocean Avenue Palm Beach Shores, Florida 33404

Agenda

• Call Onder

Establishment of Quorum and Roll Call

Appointment of Maming Chairperson

Appointment of Recording Secretary

Proof of Notice of Finance Commitee Meeting

Approval of Agenda

Approval of Finance Commitee Meeting Minutes May 17, 2002 Finance C Mos

September 2, 2022 Finance Ca tee Meeting Minun September 20, 2022 Finance Co Meeting Minutes

October 6, 2022 Finance Co mie Mriting Minutes

Investment Upda

Review of 2022 Financials and Forecast

Operating Fund Reserve Fund

Property Tax Fed Maintenance Fee Accounts Receivable

Reserve Fund Projects Review

Review of Proposed 2023 Emed Opering Badges

New Business

Establishes of 2023 Finance Come Meeting Dates

 

[billymach4]

 

[billymach4]

 

[billymach4]

Let me try from my laptop I hate working straight out of my phone