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Not a good time for Timeshare Resales

Sugarcubesea

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That just means you have a regional destination that few outside the region care about. That limits your market and, ultimately, your price.
I own 3 weeks at a regional/ independently owned TS in Michigan.
In December our newsletter advertised a few summer weeks that would piggy back on to ones I already own and it became a bidding war. Both summer weeks I was interested in went for over $10K for 1 bedrooms.
 

CPNY

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Airbnb’s can be great.... they can also be a disaster. I’ve been very lucky in many airbnb rentals I have been in. I also prefer to rent places that are vacation rentals and not someone’s primary residence that they are putting on airbnb for the weekend.

An airbnb can be great for city trips, I’ve had excellent airbnb experiences in Amsterdam, Berlin, Ibiza, Copenhagen, Rome, Santorini, Mykonos, Chicago, LA, Miami, Sydney, and great ski and lake houses.

I check hotel prices and usually move right over to airbnb. You’ll end up with better locations and better prices. Thanks to timeshares, I hate staying in hotel rooms. I want kitchens, living rooms, multiple bedrooms etc. with that being said, timeshares (condo-hotels) are still preferred. I would book an airbnb in a location that doesn’t have a timeshare to stay in. A hotel room is the last option and only for trips less than 2-3 nights.
 
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dioxide45

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yes, Airbnb worth more than every public hotel company’s market cap combined, including the REITs like Host and Summit
Where are your numbers coming from? Looking at AirBnB, their market cap is $117B. Looking at just the top three HOTEL companies only, their market cap is already over that. That doesn't include the REITs.
 

Magus

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Where are your numbers coming from? Looking at AirBnB, their market cap is $117B. Looking at just the top three HOTEL companies only, their market cap is already over that. That doesn't include the REITs.

1) No one considers LVS a hotel company - they, MGM, Caesars, Wynn etc are rightly considered CASINO companies in the investing community (I am head of IR for one of the public US hotel companies). The link you provide includes any companies that could be considered lodging, but the lion share of value on that link is Casinos/gambling.
2) I should have qualified my statement as US based companies but the public ticker symbols I was including in no particular order - HLT, MAR, H, CHH, WH, PLAY, STAY, HST, INN, APLE, SVC, AHT, BHR, CPLG, SOHO, XHR, CLDT, HT, DRH, PEB, SHO, RLJ and a number of super small micro-cap US companies not listed here.
 

bbakernbay

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When buying a resale absolutely determine how close to sunset the resort is. Many in Florida, including 2 of ours, have both sunsetted.

One was near insolvency but the second had the Owners (us included) voted not to continue the timeshare and it is currently up for sale. Considering we bought it for $1.00 we are hoping for a good return. The other timeshare where we had 4 weeks never returned anything because we bailed out and didn’t pay our MFees as they increased very dramatically due to over 50% delinquency. Someone made a bundle there as all the units are now rented to permanent residents in Kissimmee so cash flow per month is solid.

Both examples show polar opposites of what can happen. Just be aware and review the financials, Special Assessments, delinquency rates and years to sunset. Note the owners in good standing can vote to extend the timeshare after sunset date.

Hope to hear other experiences in these scenarios.
 

macmanrider

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Wait. Right now is the worst it's ever been in the timeshare world in general. There's so much uncertainty with Covid travel restrictions and people's jobs being up in the air, lavish vacations are the last thing the majority of Americans are thinking about or actually spending money on.

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And you have the people that can't wait to go somewhere we just used bonus week just to get away. The no dining in puts a damper on things but we cooked at home and took drives . it was fun we made the best of it.
 

michaelsweat

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Just a data point... I am currently at my resort in Riviera Maya. They started the push toward flex/points a few years ago and the intensity is over the top right now. The old rule don’t really apply and the incentives they are offering are through the roof. If the professional sales people at the resorts are feeling this much pressure to bargain, don’t expect a strong resale market.
 

boraxo

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From above maybe this is a good time to purchase resale in Hawaii if prices are down. The islands were inaccessible for a good portion of last year due to quarantines, etc. but that has now been worked out and if anything the rental rates are going through the roof. Contrast to Mexico where demand has plummeted due to the new US pre-testing requirement for flying back to USA (and even worse for Canada).

As for AirBnb and REITs I don't think the market cap has any bearing on the demand for timeshares. REITs are hurting because many own shopping malls, office buildings and apartments where tenants are not paying rent or vacancies are soaring. By contrast AirBnb is doing well because people prefer to stay in private lodging rather than hotels due to safety concerns. And timeshares are notoriously difficult and expensive to rent for peak locations/periods.

That does not address my critique of AirBnb properties. I will stack up my Hyatt timeshare (or even fka Starwood) any day against most AirBnbs in the same location and price range. There is no comparison on quality.
 

chapjim

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I noticed a marked uptick in rentals since the first of the year.

What I haven't seen is any appetite for weeks that are usually in high demand, specifically Bike Week in Daytona and Spring Break at Bonnet Creek. I canceled my Bike Week reservations -- not even one nibble. I've rented one week at Bonnet Creek around Easter, normally sell-out weeks.
 

dioxide45

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I noticed a marked uptick in rentals since the first of the year.

What I haven't seen is any appetite for weeks that are usually in high demand, specifically Bike Week in Daytona and Spring Break at Bonnet Creek. I canceled my Bike Week reservations -- not even one nibble. I've rented one week at Bonnet Creek around Easter, normally sell-out weeks.
I suspect with many big events cancelled or postponed, it will impact these certain event weeks. Orlando is really sluggish right now for some reason. I really don't get it, the weekends are busy and it seems to have picked up a fair bit for Presidents Week this week, but otherwise the resorts are still very low occupancy. Where are you listing your weeks for rent?
 

chapjim

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I suspect with many big events cancelled or postponed, it will impact these certain event weeks. Orlando is really sluggish right now for some reason. I really don't get it, the weekends are busy and it seems to have picked up a fair bit for Presidents Week this week, but otherwise the resorts are still very low occupancy. Where are you listing your weeks for rent?

RedWeek.com, Koala, TUG LMR (if it fits), and eBay. I've given up on Craig's List, except for two Wyndham resorts that are within twenty minutes of home. Craig's List very quickly removes any listing at a resort out of my immediate area. I put a listing on TUG2.com now and then but I'm not sure why.

I have two listings on Craig's List, twelve on RedWeek.com, fourteen on eBay, and twenty-one on Koala.

I'm not getting any action on Koala but I told the people there I'd keep posting reservations regardless. It's free and pretty easy. They're good people trying to get started in a difficult period for a listing site.

I just made reservations at Ocean Walk and Bonnet Creek for Bike Week and Spring Break 2022. Gotta be better by then!
 

The Colorado Kid

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RedWeek.com, Koala, TUG LMR (if it fits), and eBay. I've given up on Craig's List, except for two Wyndham resorts that are within twenty minutes of home. Craig's List very quickly removes any listing at a resort out of my immediate area. I put a listing on TUG2.com now and then but I'm not sure why.

I have two listings on Craig's List, twelve on RedWeek.com, fourteen on eBay, and twenty-one on Koala.

I'm not getting any action on Koala but I told the people there I'd keep posting reservations regardless. It's free and pretty easy. They're good people trying to get started in a difficult period for a listing site.

I just made reservations at Ocean Walk and Bonnet Creek for Bike Week and Spring Break 2022. Gotta be better by then!
Just had my first successful rental on Koala...I agree they are nice to work with. Redweek is my go-to and best results so far. I normally pay for the RW full service as I don't want to be involved with the contracting. Seems a reasonable fee for them to handle all that.
 

chapjim

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The fee is reasonable if they handle it well.
 

dioxide45

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It would seem that Redweek isn't a good outlet for Last Minute Rentals given the fixed fee? I would always be nervous paying a fixed fee for a "hope it rents". It seems that Redweeks fee could be more or less than Koala's 8% depending on what and how much are renting something for. I see a lot of good deals for WBC on Koala and in the LMR forum and have considered going there at some time. I just have a hard time getting out of the Marriott/Vistana ecosphere.
 

The Colorado Kid

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chapjim

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It would seem that Redweek isn't a good outlet for Last Minute Rentals given the fixed fee? I would always be nervous paying a fixed fee for a "hope it rents". It seems that Redweeks fee could be more or less than Koala's 8% depending on what and how much are renting something for. I see a lot of good deals for WBC on Koala and in the LMR forum and have considered going there at some time. I just have a hard time getting out of the Marriott/Vistana ecosphere.

I do a lot of reservations for rent at the same few Wyndham resorts so I am able to use one listing multiple times. I know it sounds petty trying to avoid a $25 listing fee but it all counts!
 

jules54

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SBW - I don't think costs of traveling/timeshare is an issue (certainly CV is for ~half the country). Most middle class and above did not lose their job with the exception being some small biz owners. The job losses were concentrated largely among working class and part time workers in hospitality, retail and a few other industries and a very large portion of them actually came out ahead not working ($400-$600 weekly + core unemployment > $12-14 hr + stimulus checks). We still have a hard time finding willing workers at even 5% above pre-covid rates because no one is in a rush to work.

The average family actually has done better in the last 12 months than normal - Typical family of four received $3,400 tax free last april/may and $2,400 in January with stimulus checks + less driving costs - nearly $6k is ~15% of typical after tax income for median household income. Plus all student loan payments and interest (well, 90% of them - all public student loans) have been deferred for over a year as well and a large % of the population deferred their mortgage and many are not paying rent. 2020 might be the best year for consumer's balance sheets in the history of the US with a gargantuan savings rate. The personal savings rate in 2020 in the US was a whopping 16%, vs a typical 2-5%.

The consumer is in great shape in general in the US (yes, there are exceptions of course) which is why leisure travel is actually quite good in the US except cruise lines (look at ABNB, CHH, WH share prices - higher than pre-pandemic). It's various segments of the business world that are hurting badly and of course the US debt balance sheet and biz travel is still down about 75%. I think time-share owners in general probably skew older than average which are less likely to travel and be more worried about CV.
[/QUOTE
this was true in 2q20 but not since. Very few white collar folks are worried about their job and people want to travel, hence the reason hospitality companies EV is 90% of pre pandemic even with most revenue down 70%
I’m sorry this has nothing to do with the original post, I just had to respond to Magnus.

Magnus you are so wrong. White collar middle class and upper middle class have lost their jobs. Some companies are just now letting go of positions they had hoped to hold on to but can no longer afford. If working from home proved anything it’s companies can get employees to work more with less help and a support system. Here is a personal example I will give you my son 45 and his wife 49 both worked for the same company in different divisions. They both worked for the company for over 20 years. They were both already working from home a couple of days per week. First in May their hours got cut to my son 20 hours per week and daughter in law to 10 hours. With a 12% pay cut on the hours they were working. My son went back to work full time in August. My daughter in law was furloughed no hours and the company hoped to recall her in the future. Last week within a 24 hour period first my daughter in law was permanently let go. The next morning my son gets the email is his being let go. Some other employee will have to absorb his position. Both were over 75,000.00 a year positions. Unemployment runs out. Some folks make too much on paper to get any of the stimulus.
Covid has spread to every corner of the country into tons of white collar jobs. It’s the blue collar production jobs that have stayed viable and even increased hiring.
In my opinion the social security crowd(myself and husband) are the least effected. We keep getting SS we keep getting our pensions and we keep getting our medical, plus we get the stimulus I’m glad for me, but sad for younger folks with families.
Travel has ground to a halt for most people. It’s truely the last thing on peoples to do list.
 

Magus

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J

Jules, that is simply incorrect and shows why you shouldn't rely on anecdotals - The unemployment rate for college grads is <4.0% @ 3.8%, which is well considered "full employment" levels and recruiters are having trouble finding qualified candidates everywhere right now. It's 7%+ however for non-college. Yes, there are exceptions there are always exceptions - we are a country of 330 million people 1% of 1% is still 330k people. And again, leisure travel is barely down in the US right now (nature of it has changed of course - less long haul travel and more short/medium travel) - it's business travel (2/3 of the hotel industry's room nights) that is down massively.
 
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rickandcindy23

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The very companies from whom we acquire our bargain weeks, those are the same companies that are downgrading the products with the "exit your timeshare" commercials that are even on TBN lately. When Dave Ramsey is allowing these commercials on his program, you know it's to inform owners that what they have is a bad product that is costing them money. Of course people will be skeptical of a purchase, even at bargain prices, because, "fees go on forever with increases every year." That is the commercial I saw today. Blah, blah, blah...
 

dioxide45

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The very companies from whom we acquire our bargain weeks, those are the same companies that are downgrading the products with the "exit your timeshare" commercials that are even on TBN lately. When Dave Ramsey is allowing these commercials on his program, you know it's to inform owners that what they have is a bad product that is costing them money. Of course people will be skeptical of a purchase, even at bargain prices, because, "fees go on forever with increases every year." That is the commercial I saw today. Blah, blah, blah...
I wouldn't take the fact that Dave Ramsey endorses Timeshare Exit Team that they offer a legitimate service. They just happen to pay him a lot of money for the endorsement.
 

Laurie

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... and what I have noticed is that many of the deeded week properties are for sale for zero dollars and the sellers are paying the closing costs! What is going on? Really? I do not expect to get 10K for any of my listings but when you own June weeks at the beach in SC and NC and week 52 in the NC Ski mountains you do not want to give away your timeshares and I do not think I should pay the closing costs.
Maybe you wouldn't have to pay closing costs, but you may have to give them away aside from that. If you're willing, feel free to send me a private message about the June beach weeks you own, and if I'm not interested, you could offer up on TUG giveaway board, stipulating that "buyer" would cover closing and transfer costs, and see if you get any bites.
 
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