Newbie needing helo getting rid of timeshares

[Nbarry2]

Dad recently diagnosed with terminal disease. He owns 3 timeshares which we need to get rid of to eliminate monthly fees. We also suspect he may eventually need to appply for Medicaid to cover enormous nursing home expenses.

For Medicaid I've been informed, by his State, that if we are "trying to sell", it becomes a non-countable asset. However, there will be no way to pay the fees once enrolled. And we need to be very careful to not "give" it to family members.

I do understand how little they are now worth (still need to give the bad news to Dad)

Wyndham Grand Desert 300,000 pts - $1,389 annual fee
Wyndham Star Island 203,000 pts - $1,134 annual fee
SilverLeaf Oak N Spruce (S Lee, MA) week 25, 1 bedroom, annual - $920 annual fee

All deeded and paid.

I've been researching for a couple of weeks. The options, as I see them now are:

1) Stop paying fees but realize the resorts will continue to hound us. Due to his illness we are not concerned about credit rating.

2) Donate for a Cause - liquidation or donation. Have decided against Donate for a Cause since the will require us to pay big $$

3) Sell through an agent. I talked to one today and they think they can sell his Wyndham properties as a wash to us -- they will take sale price as commission. Might take as little as 30 days to find a buyer.

4) Sell within the family for market value. But, this gets shakey with qualifying for Medicaid to substantiate fair market value

5) List on our own here and on other sites and hire a closing agent.

What are are other options?

And what are opinions for the best approach.

Thank you in advance, we are really struggling and need to make a decision soon.

 

[DeniseM]

I'm sorry for your troubles.

Here is one option - (How to give away your timeshare on TUG): http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132509

 

[theo]

Dad recently diagnosed with terminal disease. He owns 3 timeshares which we need to get rid of to eliminate monthly fees. We also suspect he will need to appply for Medicaid to cover nursing home expenses. For Medicaid I've been informed by his State that if we are trying to sell, it becomes a non countable asset. However, there will be no way to pay the fees once enrolled. And we need to be very careful to not "give" it to family members.

I do understand how little they are now worth (still need to give the bad news to Dad)

Wyndham Grand Desert 300,000 pts - $1,389 annual fee
Wyndham Star Island 203,000 pts - $1,134 annual fee
SilverLeaf Oak N Spruce (S Lee, MA) week 25, 1 bedroom, annual - $920 annual fee

I've been researching for a couple of weeks. The options, as I see them now are:

1) Stop paying fees but realize the resorts will continue to hound us. Due to his illness we are not concerned about credit rating.

2) Donate for a Cause - liquidation or donation. Have decided against Donate for a Cause since the will require us to pay big $$

3) Sell through an agent. I talked to one today and they think they can sell his Wyndham properties as a wash to us -- they will take sale price as commission. Might take as little as 30 days to find a buyer.

4) Sell within the family for market value. But, this gets shakey with qualifying for Medicaid to substantiate fair market value

5) List on our own here and on other sites and hire a closing agent.

What are are other options?

And what are opinions for the best approach.

Thank you in advance, we are really struggling and need to make a decision soon.

I too am sorry for your difficult situation. I know from personal experience that end of life family matters are fraught with all manner of deep stress and great difficulty; I wish you strength and peace of mind.

Among the options which you've enumerated above, I personally would be inclined to favor #3 as a "clean" and conclusive resoultion --- if (and only if) the unidentified "agent" actually has some prior experience and a successful track record with "moving" Wyndham timeshares. False hopes and empty promises from an insincere sales weasel clearly would not serve you well at this difficult time. I'd suggest providing the agent with a pre-defined, date-specific (i.e., not open-ended) and brief (30-60 days, max) "listing" period, in order to sufficiently motivate him / her to either make "moving" these particular ownerships a high priority or risk losing the listing entirely. Such a "deadline" should also help ensure that the agent does not try to get greedy and set the selling price "bar" unrealistically high.

You may or may not be aware that each one of the two Wyndham ownerships will require a $299 transfer fee, imposed by Wyndham (regardless of the sale price and imposed even if the ownerships are given away for free) upon a change of ownership. Legalized larceny, in my opinion, but unavoidable.

Just expressing my own personal opinion, per your request. I sincerely wish you good luck.

 

[Rent_Share]

At the risk of the wrath of the message board

Option 1 makes the most sense for your situation

Offer up a deed in lieu of foreclosure, if the HOA's won't accept let them foreclose.

 

[Nbarry2]

I talked to Resort Property Marketing International http://www.resort-property.com/index.htm about selling. But only the Wyndhams, they do not sell Silverleaf. Yep, I realize $299 transfer fee for each for Wyndham and also hear they are slow in processing the transfers?

Was told that if priced right they probably could get a seller in 30 days, then 60 days to close.

Has anyone had experience with this company?

 

[presley]

I talked to Resort Property Marketing International http://www.resort-property.com/index.htm about selling. But only the Wyndhams, they do not sell Silverleaf. Yep, I realize $299 transfer fee for each for Wyndham and also hear they are slow in processing the transfers?

Was told that if priced right they probably could get a seller in 30 days, then 60 days to close.

Has anyone had experience with this company?

I don't have experience with them, but their site says non-exclusive agreement and no upfront fee. It won't hurt to list with them. You can still get rid of it on your own and then cancel your listing if you sell it before they do.

We have a bargain deals area on this forum. You may consider listing it for free, with the buyer paying closing and transfer fees. JRA closing is a very easy and inexpensive way to set up the closing on your own.

In any event, do whatever is the least amount of work/stress for you.

 

[janej]

I am so sorry you have to go through this. Here is what I think of these three timeshares.

Wyndham Grand Desert 300,000 pts - $1,389 annual fee
Very attractive MF/point ratio, I am sure you will be able to give it away here or even list it on ebay and get some money.

Wyndham Star Island 203,000 pts - $1,134 annual fee
Normal MF/point ratio, you should be able to give it away. I went through the same process last year with one of my Wyndham contact and listed with some brokers with the same promise as you got. I ended up giving it away here paying for the closing cost. The buyer paid $299 transfer fee.

SilverLeaf Oak N Spruce (S Lee, MA) week 25, 1 bedroom, annual - $920 annual fee
I don't really know this resort, but the fee looks way too way for a 1 bedroom in this area. You might have to use your option #1 on this one.

 

[Passepartout]

At the risk of the wrath of the message board

Option 1 makes the most sense for your situation

Offer up a deed in lieu of foreclosure, if the HOA's won't accept let them foreclose.

I also agree with this approach. You (and Dad) have enough on your plates. Offer the TSs back to the resorts with the (threat) of default. Tell 'em they are getting them back anyway, so they can save themselves money, time and hassle by accepting a deedback. Dad is beyond caring about his credit rating.

I, too, am sincerely sorry for his condition and wish you all well.

Jim

 

[theo]

No "wrath" here --- and not seeking to argue, but...

At the risk of the wrath of the message board

Option 1 makes the most sense for your situation

Offer up a deed in lieu of foreclosure, if the HOA's won't accept let them foreclose.

...in view of the fact that two out of the three are Wyndham points package ownerships, the "HOA" is actually a historically unsympathetic Wyndham corporate. Just leaving the matter alone to await foreclosure could potentially create unnecessary (i.e., avoidable) delay in getting a decision in the Medicaid application process to which the OP's family will inevitably (and apparently soon) be subjected.

Certainly, we are all entitled to a different opinion. I personally have to believe that a timely "clean" sale and closing would likely best serve the OP's family in the specific situation currently facing them...

 

[ace2000]

...in view of the fact that two out of the three are Wyndham points package ownerships, the "HOA" is actually a historically unsympathetic Wyndham corporate. Just leaving the matter alone to await foreclosure could potentially create unnecessary (i.e., avoidable) delay in getting a decision in the Medicaid application process to which the OP's family will inevitably (and apparently soon) be subjected.

Certainly, we are all entitled to a different opinion. I personally have to believe that a timely "clean" sale and closing would likely best serve the OP's family in the specific situation currently facing them...

The OP said the timeshares are a noncountable asset. Anyway, I don't see how they would affect the Medicare application process. The timeshares don't have to be mentioned at all, especially if they're basically worthless. Can you explain what you mean?

 

[theo]

Not a pretty picture...

The OP said the timeshares are a noncountable asset. Anyway, I don't see how they would affect the Medicare application process. The timeshares don't have to be mentioned at all, especially if they're basically worthless. Can you explain what you mean?

Actually, what the OP stated (correctly) was that the timeshares are not counted as an asset if currently being sold or offered for sale.

In the Medicaid application process (I am specifically addressing nursing home cost coverage eligibility), Uncle Sam currently looks back retroactively (from date of application) 5 years at / for all assets, including any and all assets "transferred" during that time frame (by whatever means, to whomever may have been the recipient). Yes, the timeshares do indeed have to be acknowledged / mentioned, legally speaking.
If owned and not currently being sold they will be regarded as a financial asset. In that instance, it's the value of that asset that comes into question --- if not sold in some "arms length" fashion to conclusively and cleanly resolve that issue of "value". You don't want to be in a position to have to either spend time getting acceptable appraisals or (worse) have a previous purchase price be used to determine value --- and still all the while remain responsible for paying fees (which Wyndham bills on a monthly basis).

Yes, I am certainly well aware that some timeshares are essentially worthless in today's sorry resale market and should actually perhaps (logically, anyhow) be regarded and treated as a liability, rather than as an asset. I acknowledge and completely agree with that --- but "Uncle Sam" (...back to addressing "logic" ) won't necessarily look at it that same way.

I didn't make the rules and I don't agree with them, but their being applied by our "all-knowing" Uncle Sam unfortunately does not require my, your, or anyone else's agreement or personal concurrence.

 

[theo]

Reports vary, but...

... I realize $299 transfer fee for each for Wyndham and also hear they are slow in processing the transfers?

I'd figure on a minimum of 6 weeks, up to 10 weeks --- after you have a new owner identified. You could get lucky and it could take less time. For a Wyndham ownership I gave away for free last calendar year, it took 10 weeks after a new deed was recorded with the applicable county (mine was a deeded / converted fixed week, not "pure points").

 

[Nbarry2]

Everyone is being so helpful! So much to think about. I should clarify, all three timeshares ARE Deeded. Can you clarify something? If we find a buyer (or decided to 0.00 sale) do we need to wait for Wyndham to process transfer before we close? Just wondering how long before the monthly fee becomes new owner's responsibility.

 

[theo]

If we find a buyer (or decided to 0.00 sale) do we need to wait for Wyndham to process transfer before we close? Just wondering how long before the monthly fee becomes new owner's responsibility.

Recording of a new deed will actually precede Wyndham's internal processing / acknowledgement of a new ownership. Wyndham will proceed internally only after they have a copy of the new, valid recorded deed and their larcenous $299 "transfer fee" firmly in hand.

Only after Wyndham has received (and has completed) all of the above will they then start billing the new owner on a monthly basis. Rest assured that Wyndham will not entertain any "interruption" or "break" in financial responsibility for those monthly fees from someone...

 

[bogey21]

Here is one option

Why isn't the first option you suggest is to try and deed the Week back to the Developer or HOA. It may be futile. It may not. All I know is that I successfully deeded 4 Weeks back to 4 different HOAs within the last 18 months or so.

George

 

[Nbarry2]

Good point. Did not include since both Wyndham (basically) and Silverleaf (definately) declined verbal request to turn in. Though we are sending a written Wyndham request to turn them back. Was told 30 days till response, and unlikely....

 

[Rent_Share]

List them for free on TUG Marketplace - Buyer to Pay Recording Fees, Maintenance Fees Required to be paid as a conditon of transfer and Resort Transfer Fees

Meets Requirement of being listed for sale

Stops the outflow of cash

Do Not pay any maintenance fees, let the resort take them off your hands, since you will refuse to accept them as (abandon as worthless) part of the estate and they are ultimately will end up with them with how ever many years of unpaid maintenance fees

 

[theo]

On further reflection...

List them for free on TUG Marketplace - Buyer to Pay Recording Fees, Maintenance Fees Required to be paid as a conditon of transfer and Resort Transfer Fees

Meets Requirement of being listed for sale

Stops the outflow of cash

Do Not pay any maintenance fees, let the resort take them off your hands, since you will refuse to accept them as (abandon as worthless) part of the estate and they are ultimately will end up with them with how ever many years of unpaid maintenance fees

I think this is (...mostly) a very good idea actually , since it is almost certainly the fastest means by which to achieve a clean and permanent disposal. I respectfully disagree only with the "stop paying maintenance fees" suggestion (assuming that those fees are currently up to date at present). I have to believe that it would be wise to keep up with the fees (issued and paid monthly, at least for the two Wyndhams) for a month or so, simply to make the offering as attractive as possible and thereby "sweeten the pot" for a would-be recipient.

I'm betting that the two Wyndham points packages would likely elicit a "taker" quite promptly; there are people on TUG (I'm not one of them) who like and use Wyndham and who might jump right on an offer of a free points package acquisition. Hopefully, the OP has ready access to copies of the current deeds; having those documents available will save some time (and cost) for a closing. The new deed work / recording part could be efficiently and competently accomplished for about $150 (per individual ownership) with Lisa Short's outfit in Georgia (called Legaltimesharetransfers, if I recall correctly). I agree that the recipient (not the current owner) should pay closing fees and Wyndham's $299 per ownership transfer fees. The transfer fee checks, written as payable directly to Wyndham, could be provided (separate from the closing fees) to Lisa's office by the "buyer" and then later forwarded directly to Wyndham, right along with a copy of the newly recorded deed, just as soon as the new deed(s) get recorded and returned. While Lisa's office will not handle escrow of funds, they will do this much; I have done so myself through that office a few months ago; a check pre-paid to resort company (...Bluegreen, in my case) for transfer fees is evidently not regarded as handling "escrow of funds"). I can't think of another avenue for disposal which would or could be any faster, start to finish, or "cleaner", with a conclusive disposition and with minimal reliance on third parties, agents of unknown energy level or reliability, etc.

Any sort of "intra-family" transfer would likely just raise questions about accurate "valuation", absent a formal appraisal (more time, more money). Unless some sibling really and truly wants to acquire (and pay market value for) one or more of the ownerships, I doubt this would be wise (from the Medicaid eligibility evaluation perspective). Questioned valuation is a potential complication which the OP and her family certainly don't need at this difficult time.

 

[dbmarch]

Why not just sell them on Ebay with starting bid of $1 and no reserve?

Buyer pays closing costs (specify a closing company and cost) and transfer costs. List them in the ad.

Then they are sold at market value.

If it doesnt sell, relist. Keep maintenance fees current till they go. If you need to unload - offer to pay closing and/or transfer fees.

 

[theo]

Time is of the essence...

Why not just sell them on Ebay with starting bid of $1 and no reserve?

Buyer pays closing costs (specify a closing company and cost) and transfer costs. List them in the ad.

Then they are sold at market value.

If it doesnt sell, relist. Keep maintenance fees current till they go. If you need to unload - offer to pay closing and/or transfer fees.

Your idea is a good one at first blush, but there is a time issue of concern for the OP (I've been there and done that). From the day the OP's Dad files an application for Medicaid eligibility for potential coverage of expensive nursing home costs, the "5 year lookback" window opens and the examination process begins.

In short, while the OP should definitely seek out legal counsel competent in this arena of "elder law", it's almost certainly better for Dad if the timeshares can be conclusively disposed of before the Medicaid application process even begins --- and preferably by a means other than "intra family transfer".
The "challenge" with the eBay approach, while otherwise certainly valid and sound, is that the clock just keeps right on ticking while listings, maybe next followed by necessary relistings, and skittish eBayers who may not be responsive in their (non-binding, I must point out) bidding all consume valuable time.
At this difficult juncture in the OP family situation, time is a luxury which they perhaps can ill afford...

 

[Karen G]

Dad recently diagnosed with terminal disease. He owns 3 timeshares which we need to get rid of to eliminate monthly fees. We also suspect he may eventually need to appply for Medicaid to cover enormous nursing home expenses.

If you aren't already doing this, it will be enormously helpful for your family to contact an attorney who specializes in "elder issues" or whatever they may call it. When we were faced with similar challenges with my husband's mother, the nursing home she was transferred to after a stroke directed us to an attorney whom they recommended. He was able to guide us through the lengthy & cumbersone process to get her qualified for Medicaid. The first thing we found out we needed was her power of attorney that allowed my husband to be able to transfer her real estate holdings. He had a general power of attorney to do things like pay bills, but it didn't go far enough to be able to accomplish everything he had to do for her. Fortunately, she was still lucid enough to understand what was needed and, with the attorney's help, a notary public was able to visit with her in the nursing home and get her to sign the needed documents for the correct power of attorney. It would have been more of a nightmare than it aleady was without it.

 

[Nbarry2]

Thank you all! Very helpful and keep comments coming.

Yes, we have retained an attorney to guide us through the Medicaid process and a sibling now has Power of Attorney. The attorney is not totally educated on the time share piece. We thought it best to do research on our own then report what we found to attorney.

So, again, it so helpful to hear the options/opinions from all of you. Very appreciative.

 

[Hophop4]

Are you sure the m/f on the Silverleaf is $920? I have never heard of a 1 bedroom with that high m/f. All the 2 bedrooms are in the $800+ range or less. I will ask over on our Yahoo Group if anyone is interested. I would also check with Silverleaf Corporate Office in Dallas if they will take it back and explain your situation. Good Luck.

 

[Nbarry2]

Are you sure the m/f on the Silverleaf is $920? I have never heard of a 1 bedroom with that high m/f. All the 2 bedrooms are in the $800+ range or less. I will ask over on our Yahoo Group if anyone is interested. I would also check with Silverleaf Corporate Office in Dallas if they will take it back and explain your situation. Good Luck.

I will double check with Dad. Thanks for any help!

 

[easyrider]

At the risk of the wrath of the message board

Option 1 makes the most sense for your situation

Offer up a deed in lieu of foreclosure, if the HOA's won't accept let them foreclose.

This looks right to me. It also would be the easiest in this situation.

Billl