Newbie hoping to graduate to use the Starwood forum.

[DeniseM]

Kath is the Retro Queen around here - you should pick her brain all you can!

 

[blaine.schultz@gmail.com]

First of all - another big thanks for the very insightful feedback!

To Denise's point - I am trying to balance what to buy resale vs.. what to buy from the Developer and take the retro strategy.

Denise - You are correct that I was speaking about incentive Starpoints and not what the villa is worth in Starpoints. Are you saying I don't have the ability to deposit a resale property's Staroptions into Starpoints?.

I use hotels and airfare frequently and they are sweetening the deal with what seems to be good Starpoints options.

I'm struggling with the strategy to rescind and give up all of the Starpoints/SP Options and lose my $2K I'm in for the Explorer -> then, buy a WKV resale (which I'm told were not sold with significant Starpoints incentives at the time) -> then buy from the Developer and retro in the WKV. The WKV doesn't appear to have any retro benefits since as a mandatory property I get the Staroptions anyway and they didn't give out Starpoint incentives.

You guys appear to be saying that the huge incentive pot/options of Starpoints aren't worth much? However, since I travel and like use points for hotels and airfare frequently I can't get nearly the same build up of Starpoints from depositing resale Villa properties.
I checked using Starpoints over the holidays this year and I can stay at several great Westin hotel and resort locations for 80,000 Starpoints for 10 days
Example: Le Méridien Cancun Resort & Spa Note: At SPG.com it shows $565/night during these high value weeks. I would have to pay 8 days (since you book 4 and get 1 free) @ $565 = $4520 vs.using my incentive Staroptions (176,000 are free and I have the option to buy 80,000 for $1550).

What am I missing here? I thought getting so many Starpoints would help offset the initial Developer price and then I buy resale from there. Is it just flat better to to only buy resale Villas and forget about using Starpoints even if I like the Hotel and Airfare value?

Thie grasshopper is trying to learn...

 

[DeniseM]

First of all - another big thanks for the very insightful feedback!

To Denise's point - I am trying to balance what to buy resale vs.. what to buy from the Developer and take the retro strategy.

Denise - You are correct that I was speaking about incentive Starpoints and not what the villa is worth in Starpoints. Are you saying I don't have the ability to deposit a resale property's Staroptions into Starpoints?.

Resales do not have Starpoints unless they are requalified. A mandatory resale has Staroptions, but no resale has Starpoints. You actually don't convert your Staroptions to Starpoints. You can convert you week to either, Staroptions or Starpoints. And you should be aware that you can only convert to Starpoints every other year. See the Starwood FAQ at the top of the board for lots more info.

What am I missing here? I thought getting so many Starpoints would help offset the initial Developer price and then I buy resale from there. Is it just flat better to to only buy resale Villas and forget about using Starpoints even if I like the Hotel and Airfare value?

Thie grasshopper is trying to learn...

The Starpoints incentive is nice, but it is going to get used up and then you will have that timeshare forever. They underlying TS purchase is not a great deal, especially if you want to add more weeks/Staroptions/Starpoints in the future. If you are going to do that, you absolutely want to buy a resale with a lot of (potential) Staroptions FIRST and then requalify it with a developer purchase.

No offense, but I just don't think you are ready to buy, because you don't understand some of the very basic Starwood program rules.

 

[SDKath]

Blaine,

This is what I would do:

1) find a WKV or WMH resale that is worth 148,100 SOs. That will yield you 70,000 or so hotel points yearly when it's retro'd.

2) Ask for an extension for your explorer package. Tell them you are just not ready, need to get finances together, etc. Given the economy, they are likely to grant this without much trouble. They granted it to another TUGger here about 3 months ago...

3) Once your resale is closed and in your name, go back to Starwood and buy whatever you think will get you enough SOs or SPs to allow you travel points (and good vacations). Make sure it's over $20,000 and ask them to retro your resale.

You will have everything you want and more and instead of a one time incentive of lots of SPs, you will enjoy these benefits year after year (because your resale will be convertible to SPs too).

Remember, mandatory resorts on resale still cannot be converted to hotel points (SPs) unless they are retro'd.

Katherine

 

[blaine.schultz@gmail.com]

Good feedback. I understand the Starwood rules you detail above (obviously, I'm not coming across that way) - I just get confused mixing resale rules in with a Develeoper retro.

I'm exiting with the point to buy resale FIRST

 

[SDKath]

One caveat: DO NOT WAIT TOO LONG. Closing on a resale can take 2-3 months when everything works well and you have a good seller/closing company. It can take 6 months if you get a poor seller.

Starwood recently tightened their rules for retro's and upgrades all in an effort to make these plans harder to exercute (and harder to save money!). More than likely, they will do away with retro's all together in the next 6 months or so. Maybe even sooner.

SOOOOO, I would strongly encourage you to buy NOW and close ASAP. Tell everyone you are in a huge hurry and make sure paperwork is sent out within days of payment (as the recording of resales is the longest part of the process). Make lots of calls and stay on top of the process.

WKV 148,100 should go for $18,000-$20,000
WMH 148,100 should go for about $7000

Resale sites like Redweek.com often have listings for 3x that much. But when you email the seller, you find that they have been trying to sell for years and do not realize that their TS is worth 1/10th of what they paid for it just 2 years ago. You can (nicely) educate them on the reality and often find someone who is willing to sell for a good price.

Ebay is also another good source but the transactions are not always as smooth as they should be.

Katherine

 

[DeniseM]

Good feedback. I understand the Starwood rules you detail above (obviously, I'm not coming across that way) - I just get confused mixing resale rules in with a Develeoper retro.

I'm exiting with the point to buy resale FIRST

To summarize -

A MANDATORY resale has Staroptions but not Starpoints

A VOLUNTARY resale has neither Staroptions nor Starpoints

A REQUALIFIED resale week has all the perks of a developer week with both Staroptions and Starpoints. It becomes a developer week.

HTH!

 

[jarta]

blaine, ... You've heard a lot here. Almost all of it reaches the same conclusion. But, it's your money and your enjoyment that's at stake here. Do what you decide is best for you.

One thing you keep coming back to is the value of the starpoints Starwood will give you. The starpoints have value. They do make the purchase less expensive. But, please do the math. The reduction is not all that great. And, the starpoints will still be there 3-4 months from now.

SDKath is correct. Retroing is such a great deal that Starwood might decide to abolish it or greatly alter the terms. If you rescind, complete that non-Starwood purchase as quickly as possible and return to Starwood.

No matter what a salesman now says to protect his commission and keep this sale from unraveling, the retro has to be part of the deal when you purchase at Starwood. The retro documents have to be part of your closing package and they must be linked to an actual property you want to retro. Right now you have already signed and received copies of all your documents and there is nothing in them about a retro of a specific unit you already own. Everything with Starwood must be in writing!

Now that you've heard it all, it's your choice as to what suits your needs best. Good luck. ... eom

 

[clsmit]

StarPoints with Amex

Blaine -- Another way to get StarPoints, which I'm sure was pitched to you in Kierland, was to get the Starwood Amex card. PointsJunkie has maxed out using all her affinity cards and her blog has some of those details, but the basic idea is that you get a lot of hotel points pretty quickly by using that card. If you decide to go with Starwood (not to throw another option in here, but have you looked at Marriott?) the Amex card is a great way to get more points.

And if you travel for work and can choose your hotel, staying in the Starwood system also gets you more points pretty fast.

 

[blaine.schultz@gmail.com]

Again - all excellent points. I am in the process of rescinding and looking at a WKV resale.

PS - I did do the AMEX (my business travel will help here too) - which also gave me 24,000 SP's.

Thanks again all!

 

[DeniseM]

Good luck! - when you come up with a new plan, run it by us before you do anything. We have some requalifying experts here who can really help out.

 

[SDKath]

Again - all excellent points. I am in the process of rescinding and looking at a WKV resale.

PS - I did do the AMEX (my business travel will help here too) - which also gave me 24,000 SP's.

Thanks again all!

I would not give up on WMH. It has the same point value (SOs and SPs) for about 1/3 the price. It is not mandatory but if you requalify it, it will not make any difference to you since they will treat the week as if you bought it straight from them.

The M vs V issue comes up in regard to resale value. V resorts hold their orginal value less well as compared to M resorts thanks to the whole SO/SVN issue. But right now, prices are at a rock bottom for WMH due to the economy so there is very little chance that you will take a loss on a resale purchase should you decide to sell it in a few years or decades. ALso, it is a GORGEOUS property. Just making sure you see all your options...

Katherine

 

[LisaRex]

I agree. If you're going to retro a unit, buy a voluntary resort first such as SDO or WMH (platinum, of course) for far less than you'd buy WKR.

Or forget requalifying altogether and buy a WKR 2 bdrm platinum for around the same price you were prepared to pay for Lagunamar. Using its 148.1k StarOptions, you'll be able to stay one week in a 2 bdrm or 13 days in a 1 bdrm at Lagunamar during gold season.

 

[Ken555]

Or forget requalifying altogether and buy a WMH 2 bdrm platinum for around the same price you were prepared to pay for Lagunamar. Using its 148.1k StarOptions, you'll be able to stay one week in a 2 bdrm or 13 days in a 1 bdrm at Lagunamar.

I'm sure Lisa meant to say WKV here, not WMH. And WLR is very flexible due to its schedule that 148k SOs can actually get you much, much more than 13 nights in a 1BD - it all depends on when you travel! For instance, I only spent 79,200 SOs last year in a 1BD at WLR for 13 nights.

 

[LisaRex]

I'm sure Lisa meant to say WKV here, not WMH. And WLR is very flexible due to its schedule that 148k SOs can actually get you much, much more than 13 nights in a 1BD - it all depends on when you travel! For instance, I only spent 79,200 SOs last year in a 1BD at WLR for 13 nights.

Oops, yes I did. WMH (or SDO) first, then WKV.