cotraveller
TUG Member
Perry, A simple NO would have sufficed in answer to my question.
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New WM resorts
- Thread starter Bill4728
- Start date
S
Steamboat Bill
Perry
1. Have you ever considered joining the WM BOD?
2. Do you still think WM is one of the better TS properties (including trading power) out there?
3. Do you like anything else better than WM?
1. Have you ever considered joining the WM BOD?
2. Do you still think WM is one of the better TS properties (including trading power) out there?
3. Do you like anything else better than WM?
PerryM
TUG Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2005
- Messages
- 4,282
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- 2
Back from a fantastic Maui sunset dinner.
TW functions exactly like a Destination Club (DC) - all members buy in at the same usage level - ALWAYS. Here is how TW and Destination Clubs work:
I buy a membership in a DC for $200k, and 8 members are needed per house/condo bought. 8 * $200k = $1.6 M and the DC buys a condo in Utah for skiing.
5 years goes by and it's time to find 8 new members and buy a new condo in Maui. What do you charge them? Simple - you call in a real estate appraiser and find out that your Utah ski condo is now worth $4 M (25% compounding real estate appreciation for 5 years)
Since 8 members are needed the price of a new membership MUST be $2 M/8 = $500,000.
As you see the “Theory of equals” is easy to understand and determine IF you have a real estate appraisal to determine what past investments are worth today.
WM has NEVER done a real estate appraisal so we have NO idea what TW should be charging per membership (credit). WM should NOT accept a condo that is cheaper than the appraised value of past condos. TW simply pulls a number out of thin air that has NO relationship with reality and charges $1.80 per WM credit. They then violate the “Theory of equals” by demanding thousands of more WM credits for a standard 2BR Red week of 10,000 credits.
Since our WM BOD is run by TW folks there is no accountability and therefore TW has been devaluing our memberships for 10+ years. WM should be developing timeshares that are on par with Marriott if TW kept their end of the deal.
Bill,
I have no desire to fight to join the WM BOD – this is a crusade that will take years and years of fighting with TW – I’d rather spend my time elsewhere.
I highly recommend resale WM credits to folks who need flexibility in their timeshare portfolio. If flexibility is not needed WM is a poor choice. II “froze” the basket of 55 WM resorts in 2005 – the current devaluation that TW has forced on us has no effect on II exchanges. RCI is the current preferred exchange company of TW (both were owned by Cendant that’s why II was dumped) and RCI must deal with the devaluation of WM credits.
If I had $25k and was forced to buy one timeshare WM would be my hands down choice – no other timeshare has the flexibility and trading power of WM for that money. I’m not saying that a 3BR WM has more trading power than a Maui Westin but that I can get more high quality vacations that meets our family’s desires with WM than any other timeshare I know of.
TW functions exactly like a Destination Club (DC) - all members buy in at the same usage level - ALWAYS. Here is how TW and Destination Clubs work:
I buy a membership in a DC for $200k, and 8 members are needed per house/condo bought. 8 * $200k = $1.6 M and the DC buys a condo in Utah for skiing.
5 years goes by and it's time to find 8 new members and buy a new condo in Maui. What do you charge them? Simple - you call in a real estate appraiser and find out that your Utah ski condo is now worth $4 M (25% compounding real estate appreciation for 5 years)
Since 8 members are needed the price of a new membership MUST be $2 M/8 = $500,000.
As you see the “Theory of equals” is easy to understand and determine IF you have a real estate appraisal to determine what past investments are worth today.
WM has NEVER done a real estate appraisal so we have NO idea what TW should be charging per membership (credit). WM should NOT accept a condo that is cheaper than the appraised value of past condos. TW simply pulls a number out of thin air that has NO relationship with reality and charges $1.80 per WM credit. They then violate the “Theory of equals” by demanding thousands of more WM credits for a standard 2BR Red week of 10,000 credits.
Since our WM BOD is run by TW folks there is no accountability and therefore TW has been devaluing our memberships for 10+ years. WM should be developing timeshares that are on par with Marriott if TW kept their end of the deal.
Bill,
I have no desire to fight to join the WM BOD – this is a crusade that will take years and years of fighting with TW – I’d rather spend my time elsewhere.
I highly recommend resale WM credits to folks who need flexibility in their timeshare portfolio. If flexibility is not needed WM is a poor choice. II “froze” the basket of 55 WM resorts in 2005 – the current devaluation that TW has forced on us has no effect on II exchanges. RCI is the current preferred exchange company of TW (both were owned by Cendant that’s why II was dumped) and RCI must deal with the devaluation of WM credits.
If I had $25k and was forced to buy one timeshare WM would be my hands down choice – no other timeshare has the flexibility and trading power of WM for that money. I’m not saying that a 3BR WM has more trading power than a Maui Westin but that I can get more high quality vacations that meets our family’s desires with WM than any other timeshare I know of.
S
Steamboat Bill
I have never been to a WM property, but I have been to several Marriotts....how do they compare?
Is it your opinion that Marriotts are "Better" properties than WM, but you still perfer to own WM for the flexibility of the trades and the ability to have multiple ongoing searches in II?
I also assume that your trades are via II and not RCI....?
PerryM
TUG Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2005
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- 4,282
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WM is the 800 lb flexibility champion!
Bill,
TW has decided that WM will be a minimum II 5-star – that’s great with me. Only a few WMs are close to Marriott quality – WM’s Ocean Walk in Daytona Beach is easily a Marriott quality resort; there are about 4 more that are at that level. However the vast majority are below Marriott, in quality of resort, but still II 5-star.
Where WM beats Marriott and to a lesser degree Westin and Disney is in flexibility of usage. Here are some examples:
1) I can spend Jan – Mar living in Maui in a Studio – 3BR unit. I can invite friends and reserve 10 villas if I wish. We have the WM credits to do this or I can rent the credits for just a little more than the MF. Or Whistler or Park City or Florida.
2) I can spend Jan – Dec living in Marriotts in Florida. 59-days before check-in I can search II and easily find studios – 3BR in Florida that I only pay 4,000 WM credits for plus the exchange fee. My MF is 4¢ per WM credit so I pay just $160 +$129 = $289 to stay at Marriott’s Beach Place Towers on the Beach in Ft. Lauderdale – done it many times. The Marriott owner pays $1,000 in MF.
3) I can exchange into a $60,000 Marriott on a regular basis – spent Christmas 2005 at Marriott’s MountainSide (ski in/out) and Summit Watch, both in Park City, doing exactly this. I paid 75¢ to buy my WM credits and you need 10,000 for an II 2BR Red week.
4) I can’t overstate the ability a WM owner has to rent WM credits, for about 6¢, from other WM owners. Why pay for WM credits when you can just rent them?
5) II will also rent you all the credits you need too – for 7¢ you can make all the II exchanges you want. A 2BR II red season is 10,000 WM credits (3BR is 12k) and if you don’t have them II will bill your credit card 7¢ each. How many developers allow you to make unlimited II or RCI exchanges without owning the weeks to exchange? Well WM let’s you do this.
6) We routinely make a WM reservation and then put out 5+ II ongoing searches to find much better accommodations – you can cancel a WM reservation up to 30 days before check-in and get all your credits back – I do this ALL the time. I did it on this Maui vacation I’m on right now.
7) You don’t need to book 7 day vacations in Red season. Right now we are at the Sands of Kahana in a 1,700 sq ft 3BR condo on the beach – cost me 12,000 WM credits to get the II exchange which is from Fri – Fri. We leave on Sunday so we will be at WM’s Kihei resort 3 nights and leave Sunday night at 11 PM from Maui. I only paid only 7,000 WM credits to take advantage of half price airline tickets to Maui. Normally you must book 7 days in Red season but there are easy ways around this. Most of our traditional vacations has me booking 8 days – no need to wait for 4 PM on Saturday, just make the reservation starting on Friday and check in Saturday when your plane lands.
I could go on and on but I hope folks get the idea – if you need flexibility then WM is your #1 choice. You can buy a minimum 6,000 WM account (5k is really the smallest but hard to find) for 80¢ each, resale (70¢ can be found too), + $150 processing fee. That’s about $5k and you can then rent all the credits you want for 6¢ and have all the flexibility you want in your timeshare portfolio. This is not much of a risk and you can then start to add flexibility and a whole new set of timeshare tricks to your vacation. If you started today, in 1 week you could be a WM owner and start the learning experience that will be a lot of fun.
The problems I've outlined with TW have little impact upon your enjoyment of WM. They will eventually work themselves out to WM owners' advantage.
P.S.
There are 2,000 original WM "No Housekeeping Accounts", which we one of them, that allow you to use WM as a hotel - spend a day at this WM, 2 days at another, 1 day here, 4 days there, etc - I pay NO extra housekeeping fees to do this. You can buy a NHK account and turn around and "flip" it and make a profit too.
P.P.S
A huge blunder, one of many, that WM has is that hot holiday weeks cost NO MORE than other Red weeks - you are guaranteed Christmas or 4th of July or any holiday in the WM system by using just a few tricks. Imagine that, no extra charge to spend the holidays at your favorite WM resort (60+ resorts).
Bill,
TW has decided that WM will be a minimum II 5-star – that’s great with me. Only a few WMs are close to Marriott quality – WM’s Ocean Walk in Daytona Beach is easily a Marriott quality resort; there are about 4 more that are at that level. However the vast majority are below Marriott, in quality of resort, but still II 5-star.
Where WM beats Marriott and to a lesser degree Westin and Disney is in flexibility of usage. Here are some examples:
1) I can spend Jan – Mar living in Maui in a Studio – 3BR unit. I can invite friends and reserve 10 villas if I wish. We have the WM credits to do this or I can rent the credits for just a little more than the MF. Or Whistler or Park City or Florida.
2) I can spend Jan – Dec living in Marriotts in Florida. 59-days before check-in I can search II and easily find studios – 3BR in Florida that I only pay 4,000 WM credits for plus the exchange fee. My MF is 4¢ per WM credit so I pay just $160 +$129 = $289 to stay at Marriott’s Beach Place Towers on the Beach in Ft. Lauderdale – done it many times. The Marriott owner pays $1,000 in MF.
3) I can exchange into a $60,000 Marriott on a regular basis – spent Christmas 2005 at Marriott’s MountainSide (ski in/out) and Summit Watch, both in Park City, doing exactly this. I paid 75¢ to buy my WM credits and you need 10,000 for an II 2BR Red week.
4) I can’t overstate the ability a WM owner has to rent WM credits, for about 6¢, from other WM owners. Why pay for WM credits when you can just rent them?
5) II will also rent you all the credits you need too – for 7¢ you can make all the II exchanges you want. A 2BR II red season is 10,000 WM credits (3BR is 12k) and if you don’t have them II will bill your credit card 7¢ each. How many developers allow you to make unlimited II or RCI exchanges without owning the weeks to exchange? Well WM let’s you do this.
6) We routinely make a WM reservation and then put out 5+ II ongoing searches to find much better accommodations – you can cancel a WM reservation up to 30 days before check-in and get all your credits back – I do this ALL the time. I did it on this Maui vacation I’m on right now.
7) You don’t need to book 7 day vacations in Red season. Right now we are at the Sands of Kahana in a 1,700 sq ft 3BR condo on the beach – cost me 12,000 WM credits to get the II exchange which is from Fri – Fri. We leave on Sunday so we will be at WM’s Kihei resort 3 nights and leave Sunday night at 11 PM from Maui. I only paid only 7,000 WM credits to take advantage of half price airline tickets to Maui. Normally you must book 7 days in Red season but there are easy ways around this. Most of our traditional vacations has me booking 8 days – no need to wait for 4 PM on Saturday, just make the reservation starting on Friday and check in Saturday when your plane lands.
I could go on and on but I hope folks get the idea – if you need flexibility then WM is your #1 choice. You can buy a minimum 6,000 WM account (5k is really the smallest but hard to find) for 80¢ each, resale (70¢ can be found too), + $150 processing fee. That’s about $5k and you can then rent all the credits you want for 6¢ and have all the flexibility you want in your timeshare portfolio. This is not much of a risk and you can then start to add flexibility and a whole new set of timeshare tricks to your vacation. If you started today, in 1 week you could be a WM owner and start the learning experience that will be a lot of fun.
The problems I've outlined with TW have little impact upon your enjoyment of WM. They will eventually work themselves out to WM owners' advantage.
P.S.
There are 2,000 original WM "No Housekeeping Accounts", which we one of them, that allow you to use WM as a hotel - spend a day at this WM, 2 days at another, 1 day here, 4 days there, etc - I pay NO extra housekeeping fees to do this. You can buy a NHK account and turn around and "flip" it and make a profit too.
P.P.S
A huge blunder, one of many, that WM has is that hot holiday weeks cost NO MORE than other Red weeks - you are guaranteed Christmas or 4th of July or any holiday in the WM system by using just a few tricks. Imagine that, no extra charge to spend the holidays at your favorite WM resort (60+ resorts).
Last edited:
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A salesrep showed you this? :rofl: I'll believe it when I see it in writing from II (maybe).
PerryM
TUG Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2005
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- 4,282
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We're going whale watching in a few minutes, will try on Thursday and get that link. The letter was from II and had an II link at the bottom of the page - I believe; I will eventually get that link.
Would a timeshare salesrep, who was pushing LV since they are sold out on Maui, stoop to falsifying a document? That's why I want that link myself.
S
Steamboat Bill
Las Vegas is really #1
FYI - Las Vegas rules!!! and Maui did not even make it to the top ten.
According to Yahoo -
Curious where travelers are headed in the coming year? We took a look at the most popular searches on Yahoo! FareChase to see which cities folks are flocking to in 2007. On the domestic list, perennial travel favorite Las Vegas shows no signs of ceding the top spot, while sunny Florida dominates the rest of the list, with five out of the top 10
searches.
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-interests-17773284
FYI - Las Vegas rules!!! and Maui did not even make it to the top ten.
According to Yahoo -
Curious where travelers are headed in the coming year? We took a look at the most popular searches on Yahoo! FareChase to see which cities folks are flocking to in 2007. On the domestic list, perennial travel favorite Las Vegas shows no signs of ceding the top spot, while sunny Florida dominates the rest of the list, with five out of the top 10
searches.
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-interests-17773284
I'm a pretty happy WM owner--however, I think the Las Vegas resort really missed the mark! I don't think I'll ever stay, unless I must. It's so far below the Strip--among the outlet stores--did not have a very fun vibe when we toured--felt like a Holiday Inn. So, I REALLY hope that any additional resorts in Vegas will be more upscale--and, yes, I'm willing to pay credits for that.