New TUGGER here. Got some questions.

[bosca418]

Hello,

I just got back last night from my honeymoon at the Westin Kaanapali villas. The day before we left we sat through the presentation for 7500 starpoints(incentive) which lasted 3+ hours. They were trying to get us into an EOY 2bd lockoff OV at the South tower for 44k. Other incentives included a gold status, 140k starpoints and a free 2bd villa stay. We said no, but we did sign up for the explorer package.

Having found this site, I definitely feel that I should cancel the explorer package and look for a timeshare through the resale market. I'm 31 years old just married and looking to start a family fairly soon. I think an EOY option would fit our lifestyle just fine right now. So, my question is....Is the resale option the smartest thing for me to do for my situation? I've read the threads all day and don't really care about the starpoints not applying to the resale customers. I know I want to buy into the westin timeshare on maui or kauai. Does the gold status matter much, cuz I know it doesn't transfer over as well.

My plan: Purchase an EOY (odd/even) at Westin Maui and few years later purchase another EOY (odd/even) at Westing Princeville

or

Purchase an annual at westin maui

which one is better?

Thanks in advance. You guys are great

 

[AwayWeGo]

Nothing The Timeshare Companies Sell At Full Freight Is Worth The Money.

Is the resale option the smartest thing for me to do for my situation?

Yes, absolutely.

Buy timeshares resale. Save thousands of dollars on the same thing or the equivalent or something even better. (That's Item 1 in the ongoing codified Wisdom Of TUG. )

PS: Welcome to TUG.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[LisaRex]

Gold status doesn't come into play at all unless you stay in Starwood hotels. If it's really important to you, you can get complimentary gold status if you spend $35k a year on a Starwood AMEX per year OR if you get a platinum AMEX ($450/year). Each option is far less expensive than buying from the developer.

Just as a warning: Maui owners were recently told that our property taxes have tripled. This means that our MFs may be as high as $2500 in 2010. Think carefully whether you want to commit to that kind of MF.

Since it's going to be at least 7 years before you'll be a slave to the school calendar, and forced to travel in the summer, I wouldn't buy in Hawaii at all. Rather I'd buy a mandatory platinum 2 bdrm at Westin Kierland (148,100 StarOptions) for the much lower MFs of $1200/year and then trade into either Hawaii property. For most months, exchanging into Hawaii is very easy. The only downside is that you cannot pick your view.

Of course, given that the MFs at WKORV are staggeringly high, you might be able to pick up a cheap OV or even OF unit if view is important.

 

[DeniseM]

My plan: Purchase an EOY (odd/even) at Westin Maui and few years later purchase another EOY (odd/even) at Westing Princeville

or

Purchase an annual at westin maui

which one is better?

Thanks in advance. You guys are great

Yes - definitely buy resale - You will save 50% or more.

Westin Princeville is a beautiful resort, but it's a lot different than the Maui Resort:

Biggest difference - it isn't on the beach - it is on a cliff over-looking the ocean. For some people (us) that's a deal breaker.

It is not a mandatory resort - if you buy a resale at WPORV, you won't be able to use it to exchange in the SVN system. (If that matters.) It also has a lower resale value, because of that - a plus.

The Princeville area gets quite a bit more rain, than the Westin Maui area, especially in the winter.

It is in a much quieter area than the Westin Maui.​

If I was you, I'd rent there first, and then decide if I wanted to buy.

 

[DeniseM]

Adding to what Lisa said - I think I would go for the cheapest alternative and that is to buy a very inexpensive Starwood resale and exchange into Hawaii through Interval International. I own at Sheraton Dessert Oasis and I've exchanged into WPORV twice and I even used a 1 Bdm. to exchange into a 2 Bdm. I haven't exchanged into WKORV, because I already own there, but I can see these units available with my SDO 1 bdm., on the II website, when they are deposited.

Right now there are 2 SDO units for sale for next to nothing on TUG - here is a 2 Bdm. for $1 + the $711 maintenance fee. (The Ad is a bit confused, but based on the sleeping capacity of 6, and the maintenance fee, I think it's a 2 bdm.) There is another one bdm. for $250 + $475 MF.

The advantages of owning a 2 bdm. are: 1) you must deposit a 2 bdm. to put in an on-going request for a 2 bdm. and 2) you can split it, make 2 deposits, and get 2 vacations out of it. When I exchanged my 1 bdm. for a 2 bdm., I did an instant online exchange, which you can do with a 1 bdm. I got exchanges in Sept. and May.

Since you have no kids and aren't tied into the school schedule, if you are flexible about when you go, this is the cheapest way to get into both the Maui and Kauai resorts, and if it doesn't work out for you, you have almost nothing invested.

Here is a long thread about buying at SDO, note that the reserving/depositing rules have changed lately, but compared to spending $25,000 for a week in Hawaii, it's still a good deal.

 

[James1975NY]

Hello,

I just got back last night from my honeymoon at the Westin Kaanapali villas. The day before we left we sat through the presentation for 7500 starpoints(incentive) which lasted 3+ hours. They were trying to get us into an EOY 2bd lockoff OV at the South tower for 44k. Other incentives included a gold status, 140k starpoints and a free 2bd villa stay. We said no, but we did sign up for the explorer package.

Having found this site, I definitely feel that I should cancel the explorer package and look for a timeshare through the resale market. I'm 31 years old just married and looking to start a family fairly soon. I think an EOY option would fit our lifestyle just fine right now. So, my question is....Is the resale option the smartest thing for me to do for my situation? I've read the threads all day and don't really care about the starpoints not applying to the resale customers. I know I want to buy into the westin timeshare on maui or kauai. Does the gold status matter much, cuz I know it doesn't transfer over as well.

My plan: Purchase an EOY (odd/even) at Westin Maui and few years later purchase another EOY (odd/even) at Westing Princeville

or

Purchase an annual at westin maui

which one is better?

Thanks in advance. You guys are great

Consider yourself fortunate to have found this site.

Purchasing at WKOR (North or South) on the secondary market will provide you with the ability to use StarOptions to other participating SVN resorts. Having said that, if you plan to have your home resort at one of the Maui properties, plan to use the ownership there. The maintenance fees are high there so if you do not plan to use consistantly in Maui or at least Kauai, you may want to consider another one of the Starwood properties that will get your StarOptions on the secondary market.

Westin Kierland Villas is the best purchase for StarOptions versus what the maintenance fees are there for 148,100 StarOptions (which is what it will take to get a two bedroom in Hawaii). Maintenance fees here are about $1300 versus $2k for the 148,100 ownership.

If there is a downside to buying Kierland and going to Maui/Kauai, you will have to book at 8 months in advance versus 12 months in advance if you actually own at that resort. Also, it is likely to get an island view.

Think about the following:
- How important is it to you to be able to reserve 12 months in advance to the Maui location?
- How important is the view to you?

Food for thought.....

Jim

 

[James1975NY]

My plan: Purchase an EOY (odd/even) at Westin Maui and few years later purchase another EOY (odd/even) at Westing Princeville

or

Purchase an annual at westin maui

which one is better?

Thanks in advance. You guys are great

I would purchase the plan that you can use. Remember, maintenance fees are high here so unless you plan to go every year and commit to the annual ownership, EOY will be just fine. Additionally, if it is just you and your new hubby, owning a 2bd EOY, you can still trade one portion through II into the use year that you do not have occupancy. If and when children come into the mix, maybe then consider purchasing the other component to have annual occupancy. When that time comes, you are likely to have found the compliment to your existing ownership for even less.

 

[tomandrobin]

I just got back last night from my honeymoon at the Westin Kaanapali villas.

Congratulations on your marriage!!!!!

 

[DanCali]

Hello,

....

My plan: Purchase an EOY (odd/even) at Westin Maui and few years later purchase another EOY (odd/even) at Westing Princeville

or

Purchase an annual at westin maui

which one is better?

Thanks in advance. You guys are great

My wife and I recently also saw the Starwood presentation at WPORV and thanks to this forum decided to rescind on a purchase, which probably saved us $50K!

I probably have a few weeks head start on my research so allow me to chime in, but take it with a grain of salt as others probably know much better than i do. Fellow tuggers - feel free to chime in with corrections/additions.

The mandatory/voluntary distinction is the main reason we cancelled WPORV. You definitely wouldn't want to spend $55K+ on something that will be worth much less than WKORV on the resale market just because it can't trade in SVN. That said, you are looking at WKORV so you are fine there.

From what I've seen on the resale market, buying two EOYs is more expensive than one EY - but I'll let others chime in on this.

I think current resale prices (Annual use) are around $15-$17K for IV, $18-$20K for OV and $25-$28K for OF. Beware of the "Deluxe" units - they are bigger units priced attractively but MFs are ~30% higher.

I would think buying IV is not a bad deal because my understanding is that if you book 8-12 months in advance and request a view upgrade, you still have priority over everyone who books less than 8 months in advance (SVN exchanges) and II exchanges. Unless you are booking a busy week like Thanksgiving or 4th of July which might get sold out 8 months in advance, you could get a nice view anyway. I'm one who prefers good surprises over bad so if I buy a "parking lot" view and get upgraded I'll be happy and if not I don't really care - I'm likely to be at the pool most of the day anyway. How much time each day do you stare out the window of your hotel? I think I'd prefer this over buying OV and getting a "partial" OV which I understand can happen. And if you don't book 8 months in advance your deeded view is meaningless anyway.

I understand the logic with buying WKV and exchanging to Hawaii because of the lower MFs. However, I think Platinum weeks at WKV sell for more than WKORV (at least from what I've seen) and there is much less supply. Moreover, I seem to recall some places in the forum that said "own where you want to visit" because if all the other stuff goes away the deed is the only thing you own. I don't gold so I'm not sure i want to own a timeshare in the desert just to get favorable exchanges.

And Congrats on getting married! :whoopie:

 

[Ken555]

I think current resale prices (Annual use) are around $15-$17K for IV, $18-$20K for OV and $25-$28K for OF. Beware of the "Deluxe" units - they are bigger units priced attractively but MFs are ~30% higher.

I'm one who prefers good surprises over bad so if I buy a "parking lot" view and get upgraded I'll be happy and if not I don't really care - I'm likely to be at the pool most of the day anyway. How much time each day do you stare out the window of your hotel? I think I'd prefer this over buying OV and getting a "partial" OV which I understand can happen.

Assuming your prices are accurate wouldn't it be worthwhile to spend $1-5k more for a deeded Ocean View rather than Island View? I would think so. Your MF are the same for either deed, so this is, in my opinion, a very cheap upgrade. And even the partial OV units are very nice... and much better than the real IV/parking lot views.

I understand the logic with buying WKV and exchanging to Hawaii because of the lower MFs. However, I think Platinum weeks at WKV sell for more than WKORV (at least from what I've seen) and there is much less supply.

Yes, this is a new twist on the historical prices between these resorts. When I bought Platinum at WKR it was significantly less expensive (~$15-18k less) than WKORV. You can find units for sale if you look, though. I think they're a great way to experience all the SVN properties with the least MFs.

I seem to recall some places in the forum that said "own where you want to visit" because if all the other stuff goes away the deed is the only thing you own. I don't gold so I'm not sure i want to own a timeshare in the desert just to get favorable exchanges.

This is very true. But... you can get caught up in the 'own where you want to go' mantra to the point of missing out on a good deal. If you buy WKR and it doesn't work out in a few years, then you sell and buy something else. At least, that's the way I look at it. Then again, my schedule is quite flexible and I've been very happy with the internal trades I've made with my week.

Given that the prices are so similar these days, and if I was buying today, I'd think seriously about WKORV or WKORV-N rather than WKR. But then I'd read about the MFs (potentially 2x or more than WKR next year) and probably convince myself it's worth the risk that SVN will stay together long enough for me to enjoy it. And if I do "save" ~$1250 or more per year on this decision then it wouldn't take too many years before it makes it the right decision.

 

[DeniseM]

A very important point that has not been mentioned - You do not want to buy a TS you have to finance!

It just doesn't make financial sense for a young couple, just starting out, to finance a depreciating luxury purchase. Far better for you to buy a cheap II exchanger for a couple hundred bucks and get your feet wet that way.

 

[DanCali]

Assuming your prices are accurate wouldn't it be worthwhile to spend $1-5k more for a deeded Ocean View rather than Island View? I would think so. Your MF are the same for either deed, so this is, in my opinion, a very cheap upgrade. And even the partial OV units are very nice... and much better than the real IV/parking lot views.

I don't disagree that the nicer deeded view has some monetary value. Would I pay $1K - probably yes... would I pay $5K - probably not. I am no sure I see much value in getting a deeded OV if a deeded IV has higher priority to get an ocean view if they book 8 months in advance versus someone who has a deeded OV and books 6 months in advance (if that's how it works?). And if there is a year when I rent the place maybe you rent an OV for more, but you pay for it up front...

 

[Ken555]

I don't disagree that the nicer deeded view has some monetary value. Would I pay $1K - probably yes... would I pay $5K - probably not. I am no sure I see much value in getting a deeded OV if a deeded IV has higher priority to get an ocean view if they book 8 months in advance versus someone who has a deeded OV and books 6 months in advance (if that's how it works?). And if there is a year when I rent the place maybe you rent an OV for more, but you pay for it up front...

I'd suggest considering this from both your use and potential eventual resale perspective. I doubt there are many here who have been to WKORV and would honestly say that they would be happy in a real IV view (ie. building 4 with an eastern view). If you're going to pay the MFs regardless of view at WKORV I'd think it's worth at least 5k up front for a better view.

Back when the prices at WKORV were ~$30 for IV and ~$40k for OV it was a different story. Everything's relative, of course, but I think those able to pay ~$2500 every year in MFs would be able to swing another $5k for the initial investment, especially when it's one they'll enjoy every time they visit (and which will more likely be recouped upon the eventual sale).

There's no guarantee on view. I've only been to Maui during low occupancy periods, so I'm happy trading in from WKR or using an II exchange. If you search back on my posts you'll see I get an OV every time. But I don't count on it. If I was going to buy in Maui you can bet I'd only buy an OV (or OF) unit.

 

[Ken555]

FWIW, if you elect to purchase IV then I'd also only recommend buying at WKORV-N. The chances of an OV are much, much greater there than at WKORV.

 

[LisaRex]

I'd never buy IV at WKORV because you can get that most weeks trading in. Yes, you're theoretically in front of other folks for upgrades (there's no official policy re this that Starwood has shared with us), but you'll be paying $1k less per year in MFs. I can do a lot of activities for $1k.

View was very important to me, so we paid extra for it. As MFs rise, my decision to buy OF (for the going price of resale OV and the going developer price for IV) is looking better and better. If I can't use my villa, then I'm confident that I'll be able to cover MFs + some if I want to rent and price it right. And I'm guaranteed one of the closest units when I do travel to Hawaii, which makes me happy.

If I was looking to buy at WKORV now, here's what I'd do: I would establish my budget and then send emails to lots of owners (or use James or Fred to contact their owners), including OV and OF, and say "This is how much I have to spend. I'm ready to spend it. If you want to do business with me, contact me."

And then wait. With people still losing their jobs everyday, and MFs rising rapidly, you never know who's going to be willing to lose a couple thousand bucks in order to liberate themselves from their TS.

Of course, the best time to buy is right before or right after the MFs are due. But you never know what people will do now. There are tons of sites with resales and literally thousands of units on the market. Use that to your advantage.

That $2.5M MF is the same whether you own parking lot view or OF.

 

[Fredm]

FWIW, if you elect to purchase IV then I'd also only recommend buying at WKORV-N. The chances of an OV are much, much greater there than at WKORV.

I agree. IV North will have a pleasant view, no matter what.

 

[DanCali]

...If you're going to pay the MFs regardless of view at WKORV I'd think it's worth at least 5k up front for a better view.

Back when the prices at WKORV were ~$30 for IV and ~$40k for OV it was a different story. Everything's relative, of course, but I think those able to pay ~$2500 every year in MFs would be able to swing another $5k for the initial investment, especially when it's one they'll enjoy every time they visit (and which will more likely be recouped upon the eventual sale).

There's no guarantee on view. I've only been to Maui during low occupancy periods, so I'm happy trading in from WKR or using an II exchange. If you search back on my posts you'll see I get an OV every time. But I don't count on it. If I was going to buy in Maui you can bet I'd only buy an OV (or OF) unit.

Thanks to everyone for their posts - this is helpful but I'm still not sure I get why I need to pay a premium to guarantee an OV when I can likely get one anyway... Here is some more detail on my thought process:

Point #1: First off let's assume that you always need to pay a premium to get an OV. Like Lisa said, you can always try to offer an IV price for an OV and hope some seller bites and thus get a bargain, but that argument can also be taken further to say you can also try to get a bargain on an IV - i.e., you can offer $3-$5K less than what you are willing to pay on an IV and hope you get a taker. It seems that people were always willing to pay a premium for a deeded view, whether on developer purchases or resales and that the premium for OV vs. IV is about 25%.

Point #2: Given that there is a premium for OV if current "market" prices are, for arguments sake, $15K for an IV and $20K for an OV, the person who bought an OV for $40K a few years ago lost more (in dollars) than the person who bought the IV for $30K. The argument that you can recoup the premium on an eventual resale holds only if prices (or OV premiums) go up, but which way do you think are prices likely to head - up or down (especially with MFs rising 10-15% a year so far)? If resale prices in 3 years are $15K for an OV and $12 for an IV, buying an IV today looks like the "smarter," or rather less frivolous, buy...

Point #3: Maybe a $4K-$5k premium is not much to pay relative to past premiums, but it's still 25%-30% more. It's also the resale cost of the mandatory TS I want to get at SVV so it's nothing to sneeze at.

Point #4: Personally, I probably value the room decor and furnishings more than the views from the window. Of course I would rather be in an OV, but I don't spend my entire day on a balcony when I go to Hawaii. I'm more likely to leave the room by 9am or 10am and come back when it's almost dark. I'm sure the sunsets are beautiful but you can watch those from the beach... To me it's like going to Vegas and getting a strip view - it's nice to have, but I'm usually at the sports book anyway most of the day... At least I can enjoy the strip view at night so I usually ask for the upgrade anyway .

Point #5: In some ways I view the choice to buy an IV deeded unit similar to the choice to buy WKV and vacation on Maui. It is just a more economical way to still get what you want most of the time. As a WKV owner you are not even guaranteed a room in the week you want at WKORV because you can only book 8 months in advance so other owners may trump you. Yet it seems like getting a room for most weeks is not a problem because enough WKORV owners trade via SVN or II. In fact, Ken says he gets OV "every time" for his SVN exchanges. Moreover, as the resort grows older there should be more availability because some owners will get tired of going to the same place every year. My understanding is that an IV owner (say booking 9 months in advance) has priority over both II and SVN exchanges, and probably even over OV and OF owners who book less than 8 months in advance. If you have 20% "undesirable" views, I'm not sure how many weeks of the year you don't get at least 20% of the bookings less than 8 months out...

I realize I am not going to convince people who bought an OV or OF and already went through this thought process, but is anything in the above logic flawed? I'm currently closing on an south IV, but can still cancel (possibly at the loss of a small deposit)...

 

[James1975NY]

Thanks to everyone for their posts - this is helpful but I'm still not sure I get why I need to pay a premium to guarantee an OV when I can likely get one anyway... Here is some more detail on my thought process:

Point #1: First off let's assume that you always need to pay a premium to get an OV. Like Lisa said, you can always try to offer an IV price for an OV and hope some seller bites and thus get a bargain, but that argument can also be taken further to say you can also try to get a bargain on an IV - i.e., you can offer $3-$5K less than what you are willing to pay on an IV and hope you get a taker. It seems that people were always willing to pay a premium for a deeded view, whether on developer purchases or resales and that the premium for OV vs. IV is about 25%.

Point #2: Given that there is a premium for OV if current "market" prices are, for arguments sake, $15K for an IV and $20K for an OV, the person who bought an OV for $40K a few years ago lost more (in dollars) than the person who bought the IV for $30K. The argument that you can recoup the premium on an eventual resale holds only if prices (or OV premiums) go up, but which way do you think are prices likely to head - up or down (especially with MFs rising 10-15% a year so far)? If resale prices in 3 years are $15K for an OV and $12 for an IV, buying an IV today looks like the "smarter," or rather less frivolous, buy...

Point #3: Maybe a $4K-$5k premium is not much to pay relative to past premiums, but it's still 25%-30% more. It's also the resale cost of the mandatory TS I want to get at SVV so it's nothing to sneeze at.

Point #4: Personally, I probably value the room decor and furnishings more than the views from the window. Of course I would rather be in an OV, but I don't spend my entire day on a balcony when I go to Hawaii. I'm more likely to leave the room by 9am or 10am and come back when it's almost dark. I'm sure the sunsets are beautiful but you can watch those from the beach... To me it's like going to Vegas and getting a strip view - it's nice to have, but I'm usually at the sports book anyway most of the day... At least I can enjoy the strip view at night so I usually ask for the upgrade anyway .

Point #5: In some ways I view the choice to buy an IV deeded unit similar to the choice to buy WKV and vacation on Maui. It is just a more economical way to still get what you want most of the time. As a WKV owner you are not even guaranteed a room in the week you want at WKORV because you can only book 8 months in advance so other owners may trump you. Yet it seems like getting a room for most weeks is not a problem because enough WKORV owners trade via SVN or II. In fact, Ken says he gets OV "every time" for his SVN exchanges. Moreover, as the resort grows older there should be more availability because some owners will get tired of going to the same place every year. My understanding is that an IV owner (say booking 9 months in advance) has priority over both II and SVN exchanges, and probably even over OV and OF owners who book less than 8 months in advance. If you have 20% "undesirable" views, I'm not sure how many weeks of the year you don't get at least 20% of the bookings less than 8 months out...

I realize I am not going to convince people who bought an OV or OF and already went through this thought process, but is anything in the above logic flawed? I'm currently closing on an south IV, but can still cancel (possibly at the loss of a small deposit)...

Personally, I think that you are reading way to far into the process here and a lot of what you are sharing is based on assumptions. The advice that you are gettting here from other Tuggers is based on experience.

Also, I would not imagine that it is relatively easy to get an ocean view villa using an IV at 8 months.

Do NOT purchase based what you you "think" is going to happen in the future. My guess is that with the maintenance fees going up, anyone that is going to buy in the future is not likely going to settle for an island view for the same maintenance fees as an ocean view villa.

I would base your buying decision on what is the best fit for your vacation needs and how you plan to use the product. The factors that you are using are all monetary based predictions.

 

[Troopers]

Thanks to everyone for their posts - this is helpful but I'm still not sure I get why I need to pay a premium to guarantee an OV when I can likely get one anyway... Here is some more detail on my thought process:

Point #1: First off let's assume that you always need to pay a premium to get an OV. Like Lisa said, you can always try to offer an IV price for an OV and hope some seller bites and thus get a bargain, but that argument can also be taken further to say you can also try to get a bargain on an IV - i.e., you can offer $3-$5K less than what you are willing to pay on an IV and hope you get a taker. It seems that people were always willing to pay a premium for a deeded view, whether on developer purchases or resales and that the premium for OV vs. IV is about 25%.

Point #2: Given that there is a premium for OV if current "market" prices are, for arguments sake, $15K for an IV and $20K for an OV, the person who bought an OV for $40K a few years ago lost more (in dollars) than the person who bought the IV for $30K. The argument that you can recoup the premium on an eventual resale holds only if prices (or OV premiums) go up, but which way do you think are prices likely to head - up or down (especially with MFs rising 10-15% a year so far)? If resale prices in 3 years are $15K for an OV and $12 for an IV, buying an IV today looks like the "smarter," or rather less frivolous, buy...

Point #3: Maybe a $4K-$5k premium is not much to pay relative to past premiums, but it's still 25%-30% more. It's also the resale cost of the mandatory TS I want to get at SVV so it's nothing to sneeze at.

Point #4: Personally, I probably value the room decor and furnishings more than the views from the window. Of course I would rather be in an OV, but I don't spend my entire day on a balcony when I go to Hawaii. I'm more likely to leave the room by 9am or 10am and come back when it's almost dark. I'm sure the sunsets are beautiful but you can watch those from the beach... To me it's like going to Vegas and getting a strip view - it's nice to have, but I'm usually at the sports book anyway most of the day... At least I can enjoy the strip view at night so I usually ask for the upgrade anyway .

Point #5: In some ways I view the choice to buy an IV deeded unit similar to the choice to buy WKV and vacation on Maui. It is just a more economical way to still get what you want most of the time. As a WKV owner you are not even guaranteed a room in the week you want at WKORV because you can only book 8 months in advance so other owners may trump you. Yet it seems like getting a room for most weeks is not a problem because enough WKORV owners trade via SVN or II. In fact, Ken says he gets OV "every time" for his SVN exchanges. Moreover, as the resort grows older there should be more availability because some owners will get tired of going to the same place every year. My understanding is that an IV owner (say booking 9 months in advance) has priority over both II and SVN exchanges, and probably even over OV and OF owners who book less than 8 months in advance. If you have 20% "undesirable" views, I'm not sure how many weeks of the year you don't get at least 20% of the bookings less than 8 months out...

I realize I am not going to convince people who bought an OV or OF and already went through this thought process, but is anything in the above logic flawed? I'm currently closing on an south IV, but can still cancel (possibly at the loss of a small deposit)...

DannyM, welcome to TUG!

Early on before my first TS purchase which was several years ago, someone advised me to buy where you want to go (i.e. your deeded right). That’s timesharing 101. Everything else can and will change….just look around TUG (not just Starwood)…rules, fees, etc are changing.

It seems to me that you will be satisfied with an island view and will not be disappointed otherwise. That’s great…your expectations are consistent with your purchase.

Good luck and enjoy your purchase.

 

[Ken555]

It seems that people were always willing to pay a premium for a deeded view, whether on developer purchases or resales and that the premium for OV vs. IV is about 25%.

I think it's safe to assume OV will always be valued higher than IV. But the current market is extremely strange, based on historical sales, in that prices are all over (mostly down) of late. There's no telling how good a price is today when compared with next month or the month after.

The argument that you can recoup the premium on an eventual resale holds only if prices (or OV premiums) go up, but which way do you think are prices likely to head - up or down (especially with MFs rising 10-15% a year so far)? If resale prices in 3 years are $15K for an OV and $12 for an IV, buying an IV today looks like the "smarter," or rather less frivolous, buy...

I disagree. But then I'm putting value on the OV unit beyond the price, and you're not. It all depends on your perspective. As/If the prices between IV and OV get closer (tho probably keeping that 25% separation), I suspect sales of IV units will become much harder. So from a resale standpoint, should you ever wish to sell, OV will be more likely an easier sale for you, in addition to providing you the better view (guarantee) while you use the resort.

Point #3: Maybe a $4K-$5k premium is not much to pay relative to past premiums, but it's still 25%-30% more. It's also the resale cost of the mandatory TS I want to get at SVV so it's nothing to sneeze at.

No one is sneezing at $5k. But I don't consider this a premium upgrade at WKORV.

Personally, I probably value the room decor and furnishings more than the views from the window. Of course I would rather be in an OV, but I don't spend my entire day on a balcony when I go to Hawaii. I'm more likely to leave the room by 9am or 10am and come back when it's almost dark. I'm sure the sunsets are beautiful but you can watch those from the beach... To me it's like going to Vegas and getting a strip view - it's nice to have, but I'm usually at the sports book anyway most of the day... At least I can enjoy the strip view at night so I usually ask for the upgrade anyway .

I consider this to be your most important point. Did you familiarize yourself with the differences between the south and north decor? (They are completely different). This is the subjective opinion which, I humbly suggest, influences every other point you make. And it's very important, since if the view is truly secondary to you then IV is the way to go.

Point #5: In some ways I view the choice to buy an IV deeded unit similar to the choice to buy WKV and vacation on Maui. It is just a more economical way to still get what you want most of the time.

Sorry, I can't agree with this. You're talking about a few thousand (the nothing to sneeze about money) only, not the MF distinction. If you keep the unit five years, based on current MFs you'll save about $5k with the WKR rather than any WKORV. I can't rationalize the savings between OV and IV at WKORV the way you are doing.

As a WKV owner you are not even guaranteed a room in the week you want at WKORV because you can only book 8 months in advance so other owners may trump you. Yet it seems like getting a room for most weeks is not a problem because enough WKORV owners trade via SVN or II. In fact, Ken says he gets OV "every time" for his SVN exchanges.

This is highly dependent on when I go. When will you be traveling? School holidays? Summer? or Spring/Fall?

Moreover, as the resort grows older there should be more availability because some owners will get tired of going to the same place every year.

WKORV is SVNs flagship property. Most people who buy there go there. I wouldn't count on it becoming easier at all.

My understanding is that an IV owner (say booking 9 months in advance) has priority over both II and SVN exchanges, and probably even over OV and OF owners who book less than 8 months in advance.

This is the way it's supposed to work. And as an II and SVN exchanger, I'm happy with whatever I get, though even I wouldn't be overly pleased in an IV unit. But... don't be surprised if they don't adhere to this, and you get an IV the same week I get an OV with my II exchange. Stranger things have happened.

I'm currently closing on an south IV, but can still cancel (possibly at the loss of a small deposit)...

Good luck with your decision! I hope you'll be happy with whatever you end up buying.

 

[DanCali]

This is highly dependent on when I go. When will you be traveling? School holidays? Summer? or Spring/Fall?

The times I travel vary. I've been to Hawaii in Summer, Spring and Fall. Going forward it's likely to be summer/school vacations. I assume that's a busy time but is the resort fully booked 8 months out?

 

[DanCali]

I disagree. But then I'm putting value on the OV unit beyond the price, and you're not. It all depends on your perspective. As/If the prices between IV and OV get closer (tho probably keeping that 25% separation), I suspect sales of IV units will become much harder. So from a resale standpoint, should you ever wish to sell, OV will be more likely an easier sale for you, in addition to providing you the better view (guarantee) while you use the resort.

The OV "guarantee" is still only if you book at least 8 months out... otherwise it's literally meaningless?

 

[DeniseM]

The OV "guarantee" is still only if you book at least 8 months out... otherwise it's literally meaningless?

Yes - the owner's priority period is 12 to 8 mos. out. After that ANY reservation you make is a Staroption reservation (a Starwood exchange) even at your home resort. At 8 mos. out, all Starwood owners can try for an exchange, so you are treated the same as an exchanger at that point.

 

[DeniseM]

The times I travel vary. I've been to Hawaii in Summer, Spring and Fall. Going forward it's likely to be summer/school vacations. I assume that's a busy time but is the resort fully booked 8 months out?

Yes - during high season the resort may very well be completely booked at 8 mos. out.

Last spring, I rented a Feb. 2010 week to someone right at 8 mos. I told them that once we hit 8 mos., my owner's priority ended, and I might not be able to get a reservation. She said she understood, but she wanted to wait a few more days to decide. The day after the 8 mo. mark she decided she wanted me to make the reservation and I called - and there was nothing left, so I had to make a Staroption exchange into WKORV-N for her, instead.

 

[Fredm]

DannyM,

Value is very subjective. Everyone has an opinion.
Some couch a value play as being "savvy", or sophisticated.

It is easy to make the simple complicated.
Keep it simple. Buy where you wish to go. Buy the view you will enjoy having, once there.

An old timeshare saying is appropriate here. The experience (for better or worse) will remain long after the price is forgotten.

Buy what you intend to experience. Period.