New to TS...Just put down a deposit for WKORVN from the developer. Yikes!!!

[islandguy]

When in Maui do a timeshare presentation at the Ka'anapali Beach Club to compare with Westin. Then you can buy in the secondary market. Their OF are to die for. Better than the Westin. I'm at Westin Ka'anapali right in the south compex. I have an OV that is good. Here for three weeks and I love it here. It's my 5th year in a row coming to the westin.

Go to Boss Frog - they will give you $125 off a tour and about 35%+ off luaus and other tours for the rest of the week.

Good luck in deciding

 

[Karen G]

In fact, a strong case can be made to not buy at all but to simply rent from a current owner (there are also thousands of ads offering the units up for rent) for the cost of MFs + a few hundred bucks. If I were you, that's exactly what I'd do.

I wholeheartedly agree with NOT buying a timeshare now and just renting from an owner. Glad to hear you are rescinding.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I mentioned somewhere that I have a work friend that went to Laganamar and ended up buying from SVO - even after I said not to buy from the Developer if they do a TS tour. Even after thay got back and she told me about them buying (somehow got the impression that I like SVO TSs so much, but didn't seem to remember telling her that I bought ours RESALE) - I strongly suggested to RESCIND (with a white board presentation) - yet to no avail - they had drank to kool-aid, and somehow justified it to themselves and threw $10-15K out the window - oh well - I guess I wasn't convincing enough...

...so go right ahead - buy from SVO - it's a great deal - they offer a great warrantee -and the SP incentives make it all worth it...

{signed by a SVO TS salesperson that overtook David's soul...}

 

[falmouth3]

From what I understand, mailing does not include FedEx. The OP decision to use USPS overnight with return receipt requested seems to be the best of the mailing options.

Sue

 

[broadwayblue]

From what I understand, mailing does not include FedEx. The OP decision to use USPS overnight with return receipt requested seems to be the best of the mailing options.

Sue

Well, to keep everyone up to date, this afternoon on the way to the airport we stopped off at a mail boxes etc. in Lihue where we sent out our cancellation notice via USPS Express mail.

We still plan on attending the site inspection tomorrow morning, and will leave a second copy of the notice, along with our owners package, when we leave.

 

[LisaRex]

We still plan on attending the site inspection tomorrow morning, and will leave a second copy of the notice, along with our owners package, when we leave.

I think that's a wise move. Have a wonderful time on Maui.

 

[rsnash]

Well, to keep everyone up to date, this afternoon on the way to the airport we stopped off at a mail boxes etc. in Lihue where we sent out our cancellation notice via USPS Express mail.

We still plan on attending the site inspection tomorrow morning, and will leave a second copy of the notice, along with our owners package, when we leave.

If you were at a Mail Boxes Etc, are you sure you didn't use UPS, not USPS? Don't just leave a copy of the notice, get a receipt for it. Because I think the hand delivered clause is to the home office in Orlando.

 

[falmouth3]

This is from Mail Boxes, Etc. site:
Postal Services
We provide customers with U.S. Postal Service products by offering stamps and metered mail. Delivery Confirmation™, Signature Confirmation®, certified letters and we can also process return receipt requests.

* USPS® Products
Metered Mail
* Domestic
Priority Mail®
Express Mail®
Parcel Post®
First Class Mail®
* International
Global Express Guaranteed®
Express Mail®
Priority Mail®
First-Class Mail®
* Delivery Confirmation™
Priority Mail®
Parcel Post®
First Class Mail®
* Signature Confirmation®
Priority Mail®
Parcel Post®
* Certified Mail
* Return Receipt
* Postage Stamps

Hopefully they used the US Postal Service (USPS) and not UPS.

Sue

 

[broadwayblue]

If you were at a Mail Boxes Etc, are you sure you didn't use UPS, not USPS? Don't just leave a copy of the notice, get a receipt for it. Because I think the hand delivered clause is to the home office in Orlando.

As falmouth3 mentions, they do offer USPS services...which makes sense considering the actual post office in Koloa was already closed on Saturday at 11am.

We did use USPS Express Mail. Looks like the package had already made it off Kauai on Saturday, as I just checked the tracking number at usps.com:

Status: Processed

Your item was processed and left our HONOLULU, HI 96820 facility on February 21, 2009. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please check again later.

 

[broadwayblue]

As a follow up, I did the walk through at WKORVN this morning. Property is very nice and the demo units were too. Afterwards we gave them the cancellation notice and they accepted it without incident. I was expecting someone to come in and give us the full court press, but it didn't happen. I guess the fact that the commission was going to a different team (in Kauai) made it less worth their while.

So I'm relieved that part is over. Now I'll read up here and decide whether purchasing (resale) is right for us. Thanks for all the advice you've given. It has certainly saved us quite a bit of money!

 

[DeniseM]

As a follow up, I did the walk through at WKORVN this morning. Property is very nice and the demo units were too. Afterwards we gave them the cancellation notice and they accepted it without incident. I was expecting someone to come in and give us the full court press, but it didn't happen. I guess the fact that the commission was going to a different team (in Kauai) made it less worth their while.

So I'm relieved that part is over. Now I'll read up here and decide whether purchasing (resale) is right for us. Thanks for all the advice you've given. It has certainly saved us quite a bit of money!

I'm so glad!

My most important suggestion - wait 6 mos. before you buy anything and during that time, do your homework, so you can make an informed decision that you are really happy about!

You can enjoy the rest of your trip now!

 

[broadwayblue]

I'm so glad!

My most important suggestion - wait 6 mos. before you buy anything and during that time, do your homework, so you can make an informed decision that you are really happy about!

You can enjoy the rest of your trip now!

Thanks! I just checked online and saw that our overnight envelope has been received in Orlando. So that plus the copy we left at WKORVN should do it. Do we need to do anything else now to confirm the recission has been entered, or do we just sit tight and wait for our refund to come through?

Again, thanks to everyone for all the great suggestions. I've learned a lot in a few days. Just this morning I was able to use some of this info to turn a 90-120 minute presentation at Sands of Kahana (agreed to it for discounted Molikini snorkel cruise tickets) into a 10 minute session. After I told the salesperson that nobody has ever been able to give me a single reason why I should buy from the developer instead of spending pennies on the dollar via resale, he pretty much gave up. While walking us out he turns to me and said "not to be a jerk or anything, but you shouldn't come to these if you aren't going to buy anything!" I got a good chuckle out of that. Apparently I cost them $400 for wasting their time. Sorry about that Todd!

So now I'll keep reading up and learning about the business of timeshares. We are interested in purchasing something, but we need to do more research. We have decided that a superb view is our top priority, but would also like to buy in an excellent program...at resale of course!

Now we can get back to enjoying the rest of our week in paradise.

 

[Holysmoke]

I am so glad you rescinded.

I have been reading here for 2 years now and still haven't found a reason to even buy a resale much less a scam from a developer.

renting is so much less worry and stress

 

[DavidnRobin]

Congrats on the recission (and finding TUG).

If you like the SVO system (resale) - and view catagory is a top priority (like us) - then I would recommend WKORV OF. Or consider WSJ-VG (since you are in NYC) if you can deal with a fixed week (and the 'go slow' attitude of the USVI) - or perhaps Harborside (which I know nothing about)

I'll probably get flack for this, but I do have to agree w/ the TS salesperson to a point (outside of Owner Updates which are not suppose to be directly intended for sales). Even they are 1-step above slime (in some cases) it is their livelihood (sorry - my opinion). I did get this same comment during an Owners' Update and informed them that this was suppose to be an update and not a sales-pitch.

 

[LisaRex]

DavidnRobin, I agree with you, too. I don't like people wasting my time, which is why I've never attended a timeshare presentation. I do try to reciprocate and not give false hope.

That being said, how else can people see the TSs that they want to buy on the resale market without touring? Perhaps we Tuggers can offer up tours of our units at a mutually agreeable time if they're interested in the resort.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Nothing Wrong With Buying Timeshares Sight Unseen.

That being said, how else can people see the TSs that they want to buy on the resale market without touring?

Plus, information in the TUG Resort Reviews section can be helpful.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[DeniseM]

That being said, how else can people see the TSs that they want to buy on the resale market without touring? Perhaps we Tuggers can offer up tours of our units at a mutually agreeable time if they're interested in the resort.

I acquired 7 out of 8 weeks sight unseen. If you read the reviews - especially TUG and tripadvisor.com, google the resort, google pictures of the resort, and contact a few Tuggers who own there, you can do a good job of investigating without ever stepping foot on the property.

 

[jarta]

broadwayblue, ... You have done the right thing by rescinding.

The only reason to buy from the developer (Starwood) is the necessity of retroing a resale purchase so that your staroptions obtained from the prior Starwood purchase can, if you so desire, be used elsewhere in the SVO, can count toward getting to a Starwood Elite level and can be converted to starpoints for use at a Starwood hotel. Even using elsewhere is not a problem if you buy a week at a "mandatory" resort. There is a Starwood sticky at the top of the TUG Starwood page where this mandatory/voluntary distinction is explained.

So, at the very least and if you must, make your developer purchase count double by making it your 2nd purchase of a Starwood property. But, many Tuggers seem to be happy just buying resale Starwood weeks where they want to go and using II for trades elsewhere. They'd never buy from Starwood.

There is much to learn here about how the Starwood system works. Knowledge is power!

Welcome to TUG. By reading and learning (as we all had to and still have to do) you will save much more money than you even now imagine. ... eom

 

[DavidnRobin]

DavidnRobin, I agree with you, too. I don't like people wasting my time, which is why I've never attended a timeshare presentation. I do try to reciprocate and not give false hope.

That being said, how else can people see the TSs that they want to buy on the resale market without touring? Perhaps we Tuggers can offer up tours of our units at a mutually agreeable time if they're interested in the resort.

If I understood the post correctly - there was never an intent to buy or tour (but I could be wrong) - just get the gift.

I do not go to TS sales presentations either - but I am insulted (but not surprised) when it is suppose to be an 'Owners Update' (where I am truly interested in news, new developments or villa tours) and it turns into a TS presentation in disguise - even after strongly stated to them upfront that I am maxed out on on TSs and not buying anymore - so do not bother. Then... the fun begins because I can give as good as I can take as evidenced during my last Update where the Closer yelled at me and called me an idiot for not seeing what a great deal I was passing up. What a joke that was. (although I did like the massage gift)

 

[Karen G]

While walking us out he turns to me and said "not to be a jerk or anything, but you shouldn't come to these if you aren't going to buy anything!"

This is real pet peeve of mine--I've heard such remarks and worse from timeshare salespeople in Mexico. The last time I told the salesman he shouldn't berate the prospects for showing up, especially after being begged to come many times by their outside personal contact people.

If the salesmen don't like the business model for selling timeshares, they need to take that up with their employer--the developer. Apparently, the system works for them as they keep on doing it. I would imagine that 99.9% of the people who go to presentations don't intend to buy. I know we never intended to buy from the developer when we did just that eleven years ago.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Guilt-Tripping & Psychological Manipulation, Pure & Simple.

While walking us out he turns to me and said "not to be a jerk or anything, but you shouldn't come to these if you aren't going to buy anything!"

I've taken to telling the timeshare sellers -- if anything like that comes up -- "I told the guy who invited us here that we're already set for life with timeshares & so there's no point in accepting an invitation to take a no-obligation sales tour of the resort. The guy who signed us up said that doesn't matter -- we should show up & take the no-obligation tour anyway, he said, & receive a nice gift. So here we are. You got a problem with that?"

(Or words to that effect.)

Once you accept that timeshare sellers' methods place heavy reliance on high pressure & arm twisting & guilt tripping & psychological manipulation, then it's lots easier to absorb the timeshare companies' sales-tour freebies without any reluctance or vulnerability to their verbal maneuvers.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[stevens397]

And to go a step further, at this time, while I agree there is little reason to buy a timeshare from the developer (usually), I feel even moreso about Starwood.

We were fortunate to purchase Kierland early on. We got a slew of points when they were worth a fortune to us - over $7,500 for the 152,000 Starpoints on a purchase price of $27,000. As I recall, the terms "mandatory" and "voluntary" were not even being bandied about then.

We were also fortunate to have taken advantage of that distinction by purchasing WMH last summer for a wonderful price. But that's my point. Starwood has gone out of its way to screw the people who purchased voluntary resorts from them, many having done so before the distinction meant anything. They have devastated the owners ability to resell their timeshares at anything approaching a reasonable price.

I realize that the are in business to make money, but this distinction has caused significant harm to people who purchased from them.. One of my patients actually purchased 8 weeks at WMH from them. His business situation has changed and he feels stuck - even before the economy tanked. They act as if the relationship ends with the sale. How sad.

 

[broadwayblue]

broadwayblue, ... You have done the right thing by rescinding.

The only reason to buy from the developer (Starwood) is the necessity of retroing a resale purchase so that your staroptions obtained from the prior Starwood purchase can, if you so desire, be used elsewhere in the SVO, can count toward getting to a Starwood Elite level and can be converted to starpoints for use at a Starwood hotel. Even using elsewhere is not a problem if you buy a week at a "mandatory" resort. There is a Starwood sticky at the top of the TUG Starwood page where this mandatory/voluntary distinction is explained.

So, at the very least and if you must, make your developer purchase count double by making it your 2nd purchase of a Starwood property. But, many Tuggers seem to be happy just buying resale Starwood weeks where they want to go and using II for trades elsewhere. They'd never buy from Starwood.

There is much to learn here about how the Starwood system works. Knowledge is power!

Welcome to TUG. By reading and learning (as we all had to and still have to do) you will save much more money than you even now imagine. ... eom

Could it be your 3rd, 4th or 5th purchase? If you bought 4 resales and then a 5th from SVO, would they retro the first 4? I like the sound of Starwood Platinum (much better benefits than my Gold status.) I don't need the Starpoints that badly (I do quite well with my SPG Amex spending) but the idea of real upgrades at Starwood hotels is very attractive to me.

 

[broadwayblue]

Congrats on the recission (and finding TUG).

If you like the SVO system (resale) - and view catagory is a top priority (like us) - then I would recommend WKORV OF. Or consider WSJ-VG (since you are in NYC) if you can deal with a fixed week (and the 'go slow' attitude of the USVI) - or perhaps Harborside (which I know nothing about)

I'll probably get flack for this, but I do have to agree w/ the TS salesperson to a point (outside of Owner Updates which are not suppose to be directly intended for sales). Even they are 1-step above slime (in some cases) it is their livelihood (sorry - my opinion). I did get this same comment during an Owners' Update and informed them that this was suppose to be an update and not a sales-pitch.

Honestly we were not looking to do another TS presentation. We were walking in Lahaina when a guy working at an activities desk asked us if we needed to get our parking validated. In fact we did, and he took care of that for us. He then asked us if we were planning any activities during our stay in Maui. We mentioned that we had just arrived the day before, and asked if he had any recommendations. He mentioned a few that were popular, and we enquired about a show and a snorkel cruise. He then told us the price, but also informed us that we could get a significantly better price if we agreed to stop by for breakfast at a Sands of Kahana where they would discuss various Disney vacation properties. I didn't fully realize that it was going to be a formal TS presentation until I looked at the bottom of the receipt I signed, which stated something to the effect of "This is a TS offer."

I did consider cancelling the whole thing at that point, having just had the SVO presentation/purchase/recission just days prior, but decided to deal with it as it was scheduled for 8am, and wouldn't ruin the whole day. To play devils advocate with you, should I simply have told him that we would rather skip the presentation and pay full price? Just curious. Seems like everyone involved on the TS side is doing the best they can to lure you into their trap, using lies, deception and slight of hand...yet we're supposed to be considerate of their time?

Anyway, we showed up at 8am as scheduled. They were welcoming a bunch of others just like us, as well as conducting an "owners update". Turns out the "breakfast" was a single tray of fruit slices and some drinks. At that point, rather than waste their time I decided to be up front with our sales guy, figuring he'd rather move on to easier prey than waste an hour or two with us. So I actually thought I was doing the honorable thing, even though it did also free up more of my time in the process.

 

[LisaRex]

Could it be your 3rd, 4th or 5th purchase? If you bought 4 resales and then a 5th from SVO, would they retro the first 4? I like the sound of Starwood Platinum (much better benefits than my Gold status.) I don't need the Starpoints that badly (I do quite well with my SPG Amex spending) but the idea of real upgrades at Starwood hotels is very attractive to me.

I believe you can only retro 1 for 1, but if you have any questions, I'd read SDKath's primer for buying resales and retroing, as she is the pro.

A few cautions:

#1) Starwood can change the rules at any time. When SDKath began the process, one needed 500k+ StarOptions in order to qualify for 5* elite. In the middle of the process, with absolutely no notice, they changed it to 600+ StarOptions. There is nothing to prevent Starwood from increasing it again or even capping the program as was their first claim.

#2) There is also nothing to prevent Starwood from closing the door on retroes altogether.

#3) The hotel and TS industry are both bleeding profusely right now. Don't fool yourself into thinking that a huge company like Starwood couldn't be bought out or file for bankruptcy. Or that the TS division would be sold off. (After AIG, Lehman Brothers, and Citibank, I'll believe anything.) If that happens, what will happen to the elite program?

#4) And finally, you do not get platinum for life. You get platinum for as long as meet the SO threshhold. You'll be out tens of thousands of dollars to buy and retro the TSs in order to get platinum status, plus thousands of dollars per year in MFs in order to maintain that status. You'll have to invest tons of time each year just figuring out each year what you're going to do with all those timeshares. Use them? Rent them? Convert them to StarPoints? And if you ever decide it isn't worth it, the price you'll get for those developer units on the resale market is going to be a fraction of what you paid.

You're an adult and you can do whatever you'd like. But I just wanted to present the other side to the equation to give you food for thought.