New to Hilton, need guidance plz

[elc300]

I just won an auction for 8400 points at Valdoro. The deed from the previous owner states ownership for spring/summer/fall season in unit 318. Other paperwork shows the deeded week as 33. I'm a bit confused as to how points work. Do I have those 8400 pts to use anytime of the year or am I restricted to spring/summer/fall? 8400 will get me a 3 bedroom in platinum season but the wording on the deed is throwing me off. If I want to reserve Christmas week at my home resort, can I do so 1 yr in advance? How does wk 33 come into play?
Thanks!!

 

[Talent312]

In the HGVC system, you are deeded a specific unit and week, and each week falls within a certain season. However, you may never see the door to that unit or know which one it is, becuz your unit is retained in inventory for the benefit of "the club." Instead, you get an annual allotment of points that represents its intrinsic value.

Thus, it takes eggsactly the same # of points as you are allotted to book a "home week" visit (the same size unit, in the same season, at your home resort), and but its unlikely that you will be assigned the unit you own.

But if you want to something different -- stay less or more than a week -- or in a different size TS -- or out of season -- or at different resort -- you can simply use a different # of points (borrowing if needed) for a "club" or RCI booking.

Clear as mud?

 

[Remy]

You will be able to book Christmas 9 months out from the last day of your reservation. It will be extremely difficult to get this reservation.

Almost all ski weeks at Valdoro were sold as fixed weeks, where the reservation is automatically made for the owner each year during the week they own. That means, for the week to be available on the HGVC system for you to book, an owner of that fixed week must cancel their reservation. That usually doesn't happen at 9 months out. It can happen at any time, but tends to happen closer to the reservation date than 9 months.

In a nutshell, your ownership of a summer week at Valdoro is no different than owning a platinum week at the Las Vegas Strip in relation to booking a ski week reservation.

I'm an avid snowboarder, so I own a fixed week at Valdoro and use my summer week there for additional trips to Breck in the winter. Being on the system frequently checking availability I can tell you that randomly, some availability does come up in those prime weeks of Christmas, President's Day week and Spring Break. They are rare and tend to be 1br or studio in my experience. They also disappear almost instantly. I can also tell you IMHO that I'd rather pull the kids out of school for a week and go to Breck anytime but those three weeks. In the case of Christmas it will be bitterly cold on the mountain and the crowds will cause you to spend most of your day in lines. In the case of the other two weeks, it's just the lines. But I'm kind of a hothouse flower in that regard.

 

[elc300]

You will be able to book Christmas 9 months out from the last day of your reservation. It will be extremely difficult to get this reservation.

Almost all ski weeks at Valdoro were sold as fixed weeks, where the reservation is automatically made for the owner each year during the week they own. That means, for the week to be available on the HGVC system for you to book, an owner of that fixed week must cancel their reservation. That usually doesn't happen at 9 months out. It can happen at any time, but tends to happen closer to the reservation date than 9 months.

In a nutshell, your ownership of a summer week at Valdoro is no different than owning a platinum week at the Las Vegas Strip in relation to booking a ski week reservation.

I'm an avid snowboarder, so I own a fixed week at Valdoro and use my summer week there for additional trips to Breck in the winter. Being on the system frequently checking availability I can tell you that randomly, some availability does come up in those prime weeks of Christmas, President's Day week and Spring Break. They are rare and tend to be 1br or studio in my experience. They also disappear almost instantly. I can also tell you IMHO that I'd rather pull the kids out of school for a week and go to Breck anytime but those three weeks. In the case of Christmas it will be bitterly cold on the mountain and the crowds will cause you to spend most of your day in lines. In the case of the other two weeks, it's just the lines. But I'm kind of a hothouse flower in that regard.

Thanks Remy. Guess major holidays are out for us then, I read the Hilton manual and misunderstood how reservations work for the home resort. I'm now getting a slight case of buyers remorse

How successful have you been trading your summer week for a winter one?

 

[Remy]

Thanks Remy. Guess major holidays are out for us then, I read the Hilton manual and misunderstood how reservations work for the home resort. I'm now getting a slight case of buyers remorse

How successful have you been trading your summer week for a winter one?

$5,200 for 8,400 points and a MF under $1k is a bargain. No need to feel any remorse. I'd gladly be in your shoes. Paying under $150 a night for a three bedroom (or a two bedroom with private hot tub) is a steal.

I have been able to easily book my summer points (and HGVC Flamingo points) for a ski trip 9 months out from ski season. I generally like to go just after Thanksgiving Day and then my fixed week is week 6, just before President's Day weekend. Remember, you don't have to use your points for a full week, or even a Saturday check-in. You can do a long weekend (Thursday to Monday) or some other combo of days that makes sense for you without using a holiday week. In my experience, the most ski week availability is in mid-November when the snow can be questionable, and early December just after Thanksgiving week when snow is decent and lines are short. I've also gone in the system and have seen a full spring break week available that lasted for about a day before being snatched up.

If you have some dates in mind, I'd set a calendar reminder 276 days from the dates you expect to check out. When those reminders pop up, go onto the HGVC reservation system and see if what you wanted is in there. If not, try back each morning when you sit down at your computer and make a habit of it until you get what you want. You might also take whatever portion of your desired reservation is available (if 4 of the 5 days you want to go are available, take them) then go back into the "reservation change" system and frequently check to see if your additional days are available. It is likely with a little diligence you will get the exact vacation you want at Valdoro. I've done this on numerous occasions when I missed planning 9 months out and still found some dates that worked for me.

You also shouldn't discount the summer season in Breck. I've been twice in the past year during the summer and it is amazing. We bring the bikes up and spend half the time sitting at a coffee shop breathing pristine air.

http://www.loyaltyhacker.com/timesh...ldoro-mountain-lodge-–-breckenridge-colorado/

http://www.loyaltyhacker.com/timesh...t-valdoro-hot-air-ballooning-in-breckenridge/

 

[PigsDad]

$5,200 for 8,400 points and a MF under $1k is a bargain.

I know the listing stated the MFs at $941, but I think that is wrong. I recall the MFs of a 3BR being closer to $1500, but that may include property taxes as well.

In any case, it is not a bad deal, just a higher MF than listed. The OP may want to verify the MF with the resort directly.

Kurt

 

[sjuhawk_jd]

I know the listing stated the MFs at $941, but I think that is wrong. I recall the MFs of a 3BR being closer to $1500, but that may include property taxes as well.

In any case, it is not a bad deal, just a higher MF than listed. The OP may want to verify the MF with the resort directly.

Kurt

That is a huge difference if it is true. OP should use it as a leverage to ask seller to reduce the purchase price (even if it was an ebay auction, the price can be reduced in case of blunders like this).

 

[elc300]

That is a huge difference if it is true. OP should use it as a leverage to ask seller to reduce the purchase price (even if it was an ebay auction, the price can be reduced in case of blunders like this).

I received a copy of the 2011 statment and total MF's are $941.37 which include $73.41 in taxes.....we'll see what 2012 looks like.

Everyone's comments put me at ease, thank you very much for the valuable feedback. I guess the key is knowing the system and with perseverance I may just find a suitable winter week, not to mention the opportunity to exchange to other exciting locations

Thanks again

 

[rjp123]

STEAL! Good for you!

 

[PigsDad]

I received a copy of the 2011 statment and total MF's are $941.37 which include $73.41 in taxes.....we'll see what 2012 looks like.

Everyone's comments put me at ease, thank you very much for the valuable feedback. I guess the key is knowing the system and with perseverance I may just find a suitable winter week, not to mention the opportunity to exchange to other exciting locations

Thanks again

Ok, I searched the forum here for the 2011 Maintenance Fee thread, and here is what I found in a post there:

Valdoro Mountain Lodge 2011 Fees

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Studio 1BR 2BR 3BR
Operating Fee $782.94 $1160.29 $1525.92 $1878.66
Capital Reserve $168.66 $302.09 $431.37 $556.11
Painting Reserve $1.97 $3.53 $5.04 $6.49
Real Estate Tax $44.53 $79.75 $113.89 $146.82
Total $998.10 $1545.66 $2076.22 $2588.08

In addition, there's the $114 club dues plus the $3 optional ARDA fee.

So the numbers do not match -- it looks like some the numbers you were given are almost exactly 1/2 of the numbers listed above:

MF of $941.37 is very close to 1/2 of the "Operating Fee" of $1878.66
The taxes of $73.41 that you quote is exactly 1/2 of the taxes of $146.82

Could it be that the auction was for an EOY? Something is fishy here. $941.37 is less than any other 3BR in all of HGVC, according to the 2011 MF Thread, and I thought Valdoro was a fairly "expensive" property, as MFs go.

Then again, the numbers listed from the MF thread could be wrong. Definitely check it out before you sign the final papers.

Kurt

 

[PigsDad]

Ok, I read further in the 2011 MF thread, and someone mentioned that the fees listed for Valdoro were for a two week package (they originally sold a combination of a summer float week with a winter fixed week).

So it looks like your $941.37 is probably correct for the Operating Fee, but by the time you add in taxes, capital reserve, painting reserve, the total fees will be just shy of $1300 for your 3BR. Add on the HGVC club dues of $114, and you are at $1400.

So instead of the $150/night Remy talked about, it is actually $200/night.

That is more in line with my recollection.

Kurt

 

[elc300]

Ok, I searched the forum here for the 2011 Maintenance Fee thread, and here is what I found in a post there:

So the numbers do not match -- it looks like some the numbers you were given are almost exactly 1/2 of the numbers listed above:

MF of $941.37 is very close to 1/2 of the "Operating Fee" of $1878.66
The taxes of $73.41 that you quote is exactly 1/2 of the taxes of $146.82

Could it be that the auction was for an EOY? Something is fishy here. $941.37 is less than any other 3BR in all of HGVC, according to the 2011 MF Thread, and I thought Valdoro was a fairly "expensive" property, as MFs go.

Then again, the numbers listed from the MF thread could be wrong. Definitely check it out before you sign the final papers.

Kurt

Oh boy, now you got me thinking. I have a copy of the deed and it states interest of an undivided 1/42 interest in condominium unit 318 during the Home period Spring/Summer/Fall Vacation period. I don't see any mention of biennia/every other year etc. Several sets of eyes are better than one, how can I attach a copy of both the deed and the MF bill on this thread?

 

[elc300]

Ok, I read further in the 2011 MF thread, and someone mentioned that the fees listed for Valdoro were for a two week package (they originally sold a combination of a summer float week with a winter fixed week).

So it looks like your $941.37 is probably correct for the Operating Fee, but by the time you add in taxes, capital reserve, painting reserve, the total fees will be just shy of $1300 for your 3BR. Add on the HGVC club dues of $114, and you are at $1400.

So instead of the $150/night Remy talked about, it is actually $200/night.

That is more in line with my recollection.

Kurt

Here's the breakdown per the bill for 2011:
Club Dues $114
Operating Fee $469.66
Reserve Fee $281.30
R.E. Taxes $73.41
ARDA Fee $3
Total $941.37

This sound right??

 

[SmithOp]

I think you purchased half of what was a 2 week every year, that is why mf is 1/2, not because its EOY.

 

[PigsDad]

Here's the breakdown per the bill for 2011:
Club Dues $114
Operating Fee $469.66
Reserve Fee $281.30
R.E. Taxes $73.41
ARDA Fee $3
Total $941.37

This sound right??

No, that does not sound right. Taking out the club dues, that would mean the total MF for a 3BR at Valdoro was only $827.37 for 2011. That is lower than 2BRs at the "less expensive" LV and Orlando properties, let alone 3BR weeks.

Something still smells fishy here.

Kurt

 

[Remy]

Valdoro bills twice per year. One does not include your club dues or taxes. One does.

If you were misled, now is the time to do something about it.

Edit: Here's my last bill for a fixed ski week and summer float (how Valdoro was initially sold) in a 1 bedroom:

2011 Operating Fee 290.07
2011 Operating Fee 290.07
2011 Reserve Fee 152.81
2011 Reserve Fee 152.81
Real Estate Taxes 39.88
Real Estate Taxes 39.88
Voluntary ARDA 3.00
2011 Club Dues 114.00

I'd be ecstatic to be paying only $480 in MF for each unit.

 

[elc300]

Valdoro bills twice per year. One does not include your club dues or taxes. One does.

If you were misled, now is the time to do something about it.

Edit: Here's my last bill for a fixed ski week and summer float (how Valdoro was initially sold) in a 1 bedroom:

2011 Operating Fee 290.07
2011 Operating Fee 290.07
2011 Reserve Fee 152.81
2011 Reserve Fee 152.81
Real Estate Taxes 39.88
Real Estate Taxes 39.88
Voluntary ARDA 3.00
2011 Club Dues 114.00

I'd be ecstatic to be paying only $480 in MF for each unit.

Thanks Remy. Now I'm officially confused. The bill I was sent is for a 3 bedroom and includes the following:

2011 Club Dues $114
2011 Operating Fee $469.66
2011 Reserve Fee $281.30
2011 Taxes $73.41
2011 ARDA Fee $3

You mean to tell me that there is a second bill with an additional $469.66 plus $281.30 that is not being disclosed? If so that would total $1692.33 which is a pretty huge difference.

If this is the case then I will back out, nothing has been signed or paid for yet. We opted to turn down the purchase at the Hilton Club NY because of the difference in MF's. NY's is roughly $2000 for 9000 pts. If the Valdoro information is correct then I'd rather go for NY and trade into Valdoro.

 

[yumdrey]

NY's is roughly $2000 for 9000 pts. If the Valdoro information is correct then I'd rather go for NY and trade into Valdoro.

Buy NYC ONLY IF you are going to use it yourself.
MF is too expensive to trade into other HGVC resorts.

 

[elc300]

Buy NYC ONLY IF you are going to use it yourself.
MF is too expensive to trade into other HGVC resorts.

Thanks for the imput. Actually yes, we would use it. We have family in the East Coast, we could use the points for NY and some leftover for Valdoro since we're looking for a winter destination as well. We were also considering Marriott's Custom House and the option of trading into Timber Lodge. Anyway, I'll make sure the MF situation with Valdoro is squared away before proceeding with any other option.

 

[Remy]

You will pay the operating fee twice. So, add $469.66 to the bill you currently have. I mistakenly forgot to state that the reserve is billed in it's entirety in addition to the taxes and club dues. You will be billed June 1 and January 1 each year. One will look like the bill you have, the other will only have the Operating Fee.

Your total MF should be $1,294 for the year, plus $114 (or $119 in 2012) in HGVC club dues. I called Valdoro to verify for you. These numbers are from the GM.

Regardless, you were told something different in your eBay auction. You are not bound by the auction to complete a purchase. If you feel this is too high a price to pay for 8,400 points, now is the time to act.

 

[elc300]

You will pay the operating fee twice. So, add $469.66 to the bill you currently have. I mistakenly forgot to state that the reserve is billed in it's entirety in addition to the taxes and club dues. You will be billed June 1 and January 1 each year. One will look like the bill you have, the other will only have the Operating Fee.

Your total MF should be $1,294 for the year, plus $114 (or $119 in 2012) in HGVC club dues. I called Valdoro to verify for you. These numbers are from the GM.

Regardless, you were told something different in your eBay auction. You are not bound by the auction to complete a purchase. If you feel this is too high a price to pay for 8,400 points, now is the time to act.

Thank you so very much Remy, I truly appreciate it. I've talker to the seller and he has no problem with me canceling. He tells me the owner swore this was the total MF, which he thought was low but trusted what he was told, go figure. Anyway, once we pass ROFR and review the estoppel letter then I'd make the payment which gave me peace of mind. I will sleep on it

 

[PigsDad]

I'm glad you got this figured out. Figuring $1,294, that comes out to a little over 15 cents a point for maintenance fees, which is on the lower side compared to other weeks in the HGVC system. It certainly is lower than any Gold week. Just look in the 2012 MF thread here in this forum, and compare that to other properties / weeks. A 3BR usually gets you better bang for the buck as far as MFs go. And the purchase price is definitely a bargain for 8400 points!

So bottom line, if you think you would make use of 8400 points in the HGVC system every year, I personally think this is a pretty good deal. Good luck in your decision!

Kurt

 

[Remy]

Ditto PigsDad. It's a good deal. I did the total on all my ownerships with HGVC dues and came to 16.6 cents per point. Yours with HGVC dues is 16.8 cents per point. It's not bad at all for that number of points. You also have to take into account what you paid up front to get those points. 8,400 is going to cost you more at almost every other resort in the HGVC system that has the added benefit of appearing in the Revolution System and being treated as a true HGVC-built resort.

What I would do is request that the purchase price be reduced or some closing costs paid due to the misrepresentation. It never hurts to press them a bit on this. 1294-941=353 dollars per year in additional cost for your purchase. Over 20 years you are paying $7,000 more than you thought you would be. Totally uncool, seller.

 

[dja1980]

You guys are awesome! OP asked about how points work, and you guys were able to dig in to find a different potential issue, and helped him to avoid a future headache.

I agree with these guys... use the misrepresentation as grounds to save a few bucks on the deal. I would hope that the seller didn't do that on purpose, and it doesn't hurt to ask!

 

[Remy]

We're all in it for the kudos.

Regarding ROFR, you should be solid there. ROFR is held by the developer, not HGVC and they haven't exercised it. Valdoro is somewhat unique in the system in that it was built by the developer to be sold by HGVC, so every single unit is in HGVC, but HGVC doesn't have ROFR in the contracts.