New to Hilton Grand Vacation Club

[DKZB]

I’ve owned Disney Vacation Club timeshares for quite some time but am working on selling a few of those contracts and am considering getting into the Hilton Grand Vacation Club system.

Specifically, I would like to be able to book a large (3-4 bedroom) unit in Breckenridge or Park City annually during ski season.

1. My understanding is that you really need to own what you want to use for these resorts (Platinum Season in the Room Size we want) to get this during the 12 month window. My understanding is things are very difficult at the 9 month window. True?

2. If we want a “peak” weak like Christmas, New Years or Presidents’ Day, do you really need a “fixed week” or are we likely ok with flexible points?

3. How much do these (more premium) points at these resorts usually sell for? Is it reasonable to think that if I’m patient I can find one of these (23k point contracts) under $1000? Under $5000?

I have a much better sense on pricing on DVC contracts but still learning fair value on HGVC contracts. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks to the community for your help!

 

[ernststarhemberg]

Welcome!

1. It depends on the location of your resort. We've owned in HGV since 2014 and have never used the 12-month booking window. We have always booked at the nine month booking window and have never had issues getting the room we wanted. Certain resorts (e.g., Ocean Oak in Hilton Head, SC) do tend to fill up pretty quickly at the nine-month window for ocean view rooms, particularly during high season, so I'd recommend booking those at exactly the nine month window, or even "walking" the reservation forward. But outside of specific rooms at specific resorts we have never had problems getting what we wanted if we booked when the nine month window opened.

2. Ditto for this. I would say for most resorts you are safe for booking holidays as long as they are booked nine months out. Difficulty will depend on where the resort is located. For instance, using the flex points to book Valdoro (Breckenridge, CO) for Christmas week will be tough, but booking a room in Vegas that week shouldn't be a problem.

3. A 23k point annual platinum deed for $5,000 is possible but not likely. Others can weigh in on this with better info.

As for my two cents: The face value of the deed is important, but I would argue that if this is something that will be owned for a long time (decades) or potentially passed down to family members, it's more important to look at the MF ratio. If the plan is to use HGV points to book at a variety of HGV properties using the nine month window, the best bet is to look at buying deeds at specific resorts that are known for lower MF ratios and higher stability in terms of special assessments. Most on here would recommend looking for platinum annual deeds at Vegas properties like Boulevard, Flamingo, Elara - something offering a MF ratio of less than $0.10 is ideal, and there are plenty of these deeds to be had at these properties. Vegas properties are also known for stability in that their MF fees tend to rise slower, and are less prone to special assessments. This is basically what we do - we own Vegas deeds with a blended MF ratio of just under $0.11. It's not uncommon to find Platinum annual Boulevard deeds for MF ratios as low as $0.09. The key is looking specifically at annual platinum deed as they have the lowest MF ratios and tend to offer the best bang for the buck, especially if you want to offload the deed later.

Whereas SC and FL properties are known for high MFs and, in the case of FL, special assessments that make the deeds less desirable unless you want a deed at that specific resort for that specific home week for a specific reason. Unless you want a guaranteed specific week at these properties, I'd recommend avoiding deeds for them.

 

[PigsDad]

1. My understanding is that you really need to own what you want to use for these resorts (Platinum Season in the Room Size we want) to get this during the 12 month window. My understanding is things are very difficult at the 9 month window. True?

2. If we want a “peak” weak like Christmas, New Years or Presidents’ Day, do you really need a “fixed week” or are we likely ok with flexible points?

I own at Valdoro (Breckenridge), and there are some unique deeds there. First off, they have two "Platinum" seasons -- one for the summer weeks and one for the winter weeks. A floating summer week Platinum deed gets you the 12-month booking priority only for summer weeks, so it will not get you any priority for booking a winter/ski week.

For winter/ski weeks, there are two types: floating and fixed, and floating are harder to find. For the holiday weeks you mentioned, I would definitely look for a fixed week, as those weeks are rarely released by owners. Also, many Valdoro deeds are sold as 2-week packages -- one fixed ski week and one summer floating week. Also note that the largest unit at Valdoro is a 3BR, which sleeps 8 max.

It is my experience that ski weeks at Sunrise Lodge (Park City) are a bit easier to book, so a floating week there might be a bit more flexible.

Kurt

 

[alwysonvac]

Previous threads

Sunrise Lodge / Valdoro Fixed Week vs. Floating

I'm looking at a couple resale deeds at both Sunrise & Valdoro and was wondering if anyone has experience/success booking over New Years with a floating platinum deed. There are a couple week 52 deeds out there, but they are asking a premium for them. I have 4 kids at 4 schools with 4...

tugbbs.com

Unable to find availability at Sunrise (Park City, UT) or Valdoro (Breckenridge, CO)

Has anyone had any luck booking a ski vacation at either Sunrise Lodge in Park City, UT or Valdoro Mountain Lodge in Breckenridge, Colorado if those locations are not your home resort?

tugbbs.com

 

[DKZB]

Welcome!

1. It depends on the location of your resort. We've owned in HGV since 2014 and have never used the 12-month booking window. We have always booked at the nine month booking window and have never had issues getting the room we wanted. Certain resorts (e.g., Ocean Oak in Hilton Head, SC) do tend to fill up pretty quickly at the nine-month window for ocean view rooms, particularly during high season, so I'd recommend booking those at exactly the nine month window, or even "walking" the reservation forward. But outside of specific rooms at specific resorts we have never had problems getting what we wanted if we booked when the nine month window opened.

2. Ditto for this. I would say for most resorts you are safe for booking holidays as long as they are booked nine months out. Difficulty will depend on where the resort is located. For instance, using the flex points to book Valdoro (Breckenridge, CO) for Christmas week will be tough, but booking a room in Vegas that week shouldn't be a problem.

3. A 23k point annual platinum deed for $5,000 is possible but not likely. Others can weigh in on this with better info.

As for my two cents: The face value of the deed is important, but I would argue that if this is something that will be owned for a long time (decades) or potentially passed down to family members, it's more important to look at the MF ratio. If the plan is to use HGV points to book at a variety of HGV properties using the nine month window, the best bet is to look at buying deeds at specific resorts that are known for lower MF ratios and higher stability in terms of special assessments. Most on here would recommend looking for platinum annual deeds at Vegas properties like Boulevard, Flamingo, Elara - something offering a MF ratio of less than $0.10 is ideal, and there are plenty of these deeds to be had at these properties. Vegas properties are also known for stability in that their MF fees tend to rise slower, and are less prone to special assessments. This is basically what we do - we own Vegas deeds with a blended MF ratio of just under $0.11. It's not uncommon to find Platinum annual Boulevard deeds for MF ratios as low as $0.09. The key is looking specifically at annual platinum deed as they have the lowest MF ratios and tend to offer the best bang for the buck, especially if you want to offload the deed later.

Whereas SC and FL properties are known for high MFs and, in the case of FL, special assessments that make the deeds less desirable unless you want a deed at that specific resort for that specific home week for a specific reason. Unless you want a guaranteed specific week at these properties, I'd recommend avoiding deeds for them.

Appreciate the insights!

I know the DVC system exceptionally well and while there are A LOT of differences, there are similarities as well.

In DVC certain resorts and/or room types are difficult specifically at peak times of the year. In those cases you want the home resort advantage or even a fixed week. In those cases while the price and/or MF is higher, you are stuck if that’s where you want to stay.

It seems HGVC is generally easier to book at the 9 month mark making SAP (sleep around points w/low entry price and low MF) preferable as you suggest. I had heard Valdoro (Breckenridge CO) and Sunrise Lodge (Park City UT) are difficult unless you own during ski season. Not sure how true this is… any experiences here?

 

[DKZB]

I own at Valdoro (Breckenridge), and there are some unique deeds there. First off, they have two "Platinum" seasons -- one for the summer weeks and one for the winter weeks. A floating summer week Platinum deed gets you the 12-month booking priority only for summer weeks, so it will not get you any priority for booking a winter/ski week.

For winter/ski weeks, there are two types: floating and fixed, and floating are harder to find. For the holiday weeks you mentioned, I would definitely look for a fixed week, as those weeks are rarely released by owners. Also, many Valdoro deeds are sold as 2-week packages -- one fixed ski week and one summer floating week. Also note that the largest unit at Valdoro is a 3BR, which sleeps 8 max.

It is my experience that ski weeks at Sunrise Lodge (Park City) are a bit easier to book, so a floating week there might be a bit more flexible.

Kurt

This confirms what I had heard when it comes to Valdoro. If I want to stay, I need to own and fixed week is much better for peak dates. Thanks!!

 

[DKZB]

Is there a good resource to understand the fair market value of these contracts. For example a DVC board has a ROFR thread where the community posts the prices they pay at different resorts. It’s really helpful to understand and track what people are actually paying. Anything like that exist for HGVC?

 

[ernststarhemberg]

We stayed at Valdoro in a 2BR+ (with the hot tub) last August. I think we booked it nine months out exactly, and the lodge was definitely full that week. Probably easier to book there during the shoulder seasons, but summer and ski season must be planned well in advance if there is no home week priority.

 

[4TimeAway]

In terms of price, my perspective is you get what you pay for. If you want a fixed week and there is only one for sale, that is the price. Also, be aware that some deeds have ROFR that can get triggered. In that case HGVC buys the week for the price that you thought you had.


My recommendation is to put a price on the unit. Say $1M for 50 weeks a year. That works out to $20,000/wk average. Peak ski weeks would be worth more, but for a mental exercise $5,000 is probably too low. That’s how I look at it. On the other hand, what you can sell it for is the risk factor.

 

[4TimeAway]

On the MF it is either lowest cost per point or getting the week you want (fixed week). I think the fixed week in this case makes the MF costs meaningless.

You can see a week will cost you $2,000 (or whatever it is) and if that seems like a good deal to you you buy it. I'm guessing it will save you 50-80% off list price and the initial cost will not matter.

 

[JimmyQ]

Is there a good resource to understand the fair market value of these contracts. For example a DVC board has a ROFR thread where the community posts the prices they pay at different resorts. It’s really helpful to understand and track what people are actually paying. Anything like that exist for HGVC?

I use ROFR.net but the volume of transactions is not near what is posted of DIS.

 

[DKZB]

I use ROFR.net but the volume of transactions is not near what is posted of DIS.

Thanks for sharing! Just checked it out, it is definitely bit light on volume. Wish there were more of a culture of reporting here.

 

[GT75]

Also, be aware that some deeds have ROFR that can get triggered. In that case HGVC buys the week for the price that you thought you had.

Valdoro doesn't have ROFR.

 

[brp]

I’ve owned Disney Vacation Club timeshares for quite some time but am working on selling a few of those contracts and am considering getting into the Hilton Grand Vacation Club system.

Sounds like you are keeping some of the DVC contracts. If so, I highly recommend MagicOwners.com as a site to join and hang out in. Great bunch of people and very much *not* like other Disney sites

Cheers.

 

[DKZB]

Valdoro doesn't have ROFR.

Very interesting! Sounds like it will go for a premium anyway but good to know Hilton can’t just snatch up a good deal!

Sounds like you are keeping some of the DVC contracts. If so, I highly recommend MagicOwners.com as a site to join and hang out in. Great bunch of people and very much *not* like other Disney sites

Cheers.

I will check it out. Thanks!

 

[GT75]

Also, Valdoro doesn't have any 4BRs

HGVC Detailed Resort & Affiliated Information

Please limit this thread to only the detailed information on a HGVC specific resorts. This can include affiliate information, resort maps, room codes or other specific resort information which TUG members going to this resort will find useful. For discussion/commentary please use the to...

tugbbs.com

But Sunrise Lodge does

HGVC Detailed Resort & Affiliated Information

Please limit this thread to only the detailed information on a HGVC specific resorts. This can include affiliate information, resort maps, room codes or other specific resort information which TUG members going to this resort will find useful. For discussion/commentary please use the to...

tugbbs.com

 

[DKZB]

My recommendation is to put a price on the unit. Say $1M for 50 weeks a year. That works out to $20,000/wk average. Peak ski weeks would be worth more, but for a mental exercise $5,000 is probably too low. That’s how I look at it. On the other hand, what you can sell it for is the risk factor.

I have been thinking about this method of determining FMV and think you may be onto something. You would have to know the following data points:

- What is the FMV of a complete purchase of similar unit (as a condo) + Yr 1 Expenses = Total Year 1 Cost
- Multiply this number by the pro-rata annual point cost (Points of your week(s) / Annual points for the unit)
- Subtract the HGVC annual Costs (Membership Transfer Fees, Booking Fees, Membership Fees and Maintenance)
- Subtract a "Lack of Marketability" discount since a Timeshare is harder to re-sell than a traditional condo. Maybe 10%?
- Subtract a "Lack of Control" discount since as timeshare owners we are at the will of the management company and costs have historically increased faster than inflation. Maybe another 10%?

Anything else I should consider in this valuation method?

 

[letsgobobby]

timeshares and individual property are too different to be comparable imo. the weekly fees are much higher for the former, so the upfront price has to be lower. it's better to look at the market for resale, find a deal you're happy with, and move on.

 

[4TimeAway]

I have been thinking about this method of determining FMV and think you may be onto something. You would have to know the following data points:

- What is the FMV of a complete purchase of similar unit (as a condo) + Yr 1 Expenses = Total Year 1 Cost
- Multiply this number by the pro-rata annual point cost (Points of your week(s) / Annual points for the unit)
- Subtract the HGVC annual Costs (Membership Transfer Fees, Booking Fees, Membership Fees and Maintenance)
- Subtract a "Lack of Marketability" discount since a Timeshare is harder to re-sell than a traditional condo. Maybe 10%?
- Subtract a "Lack of Control" discount since as timeshare owners we are at the will of the management company and costs have historically increased faster than inflation. Maybe another 10%?

Anything else I should consider in this valuation method?

letsgobobby is right.

I use this to think about what I value the places at. Call it The Compared to What Approach.

Market price is market price, but the originators set a price higher than this and resale is less. I use this as my breakeven point. Wrong term, sorry, but it helps me place a walk away point.

Personally, I think a recession will make things less expensive, but at the same time it’s not worth the time to get the bottom. Also, diversification of locations, age of buildings and even systems might be good.

All I know is more and better vacations for less is a winning plan. So, I embrace resale timeshares.

 

[DKZB]

letsgobobby is right.

I use this to think about what I value the places at. Call it The Compared to What Approach.

Market price is market price, but the originators set a price higher than this and resale is less. I use this as my breakeven point. Wrong term, sorry, but it helps me place a walk away point.

Personally, I think a recession will make things less expensive, but at the same time it’s not worth the time to get the bottom. Also, diversification of locations, age of buildings and even systems might be good.

All I know is more and better vacations for less is a winning plan. So, I embrace resale timeshares.

Problem is that understanding market value is difficult without a data on comps. In the DVC world there are people who report and people who track. I’m not getting the sense that is true in the HGVC community and while Orange County Fl has a fantastic online records system, many other places are not quite so easy.

 

[letsgobobby]

you can get a good sense for most deeds just by checking the major resale sites. Diane Nadeau and Judi K, EBAY, rofr as well.

 

[DKZB]

you can get a good sense for most deeds just by checking the major resale sites. Diane Nadeau and Judi K, EBAY, rofr as well.

Listing price and actual sale price are not always the same. For example, when buying DVC contracts which seems like a far more liquid (and transparent) market, it is not uncommon to see deals 10-30% below average listing prices. Unfortunately, listing prices are not always reflective of what willing sellers might minimally take. In fact I have thought about offering a nominal amount on many contracts that fit my profile in search of true price discovery.

 

[brp]

Listing price and actual sale price are not always the same. For example, when buying DVC contracts which seems like a far more liquid (and transparent) market, it is not uncommon to see deals 10-30% below average listing prices. Unfortunately, listing prices are not always reflective of what willing sellers might minimally take. In fact I have thought about offering a nominal amount on many contracts that fit my profile in search of true price discovery.

One big difference is that, while DVC will routinely exercise ROFR, so it's harder to get a really good deal, even with a motivated seller, HGVC have not used ROFR much in recent history (based on information here), so there is more chance of getting something at a better price with patience.

Cheers.

 

[DKZB]

One big difference is that, while DVC will routinely exercise ROFR, so it's harder to get a really good deal, even with a motivated seller, HGVC have not used ROFR much in recent history (based on information here), so there is more chance of getting something at a better price with patience.

Cheers.

That has actually changed in the last year or two. Disney will still ROFR here and there for specific resorts but it is no longer the price support that it once was circa 2021 and 2022. Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand of The Market" has been controlling prices. Prices today are certainly lower than when ROFR was a regular occurrence (for multiple reasons) but even without ROFR prices have been relatively stable and certainly haven't cratered. I really believe it is because of the healthy and relatively liquid (by timeshare standards) DVC market, relatively high quality for Disney resorts and demand for Disney trips. I have had some experience that make me question whether this will be the case in the future so I'm looking to take some chips off the DVC table while still traveling on awesome vacations.

As an aside, any idea if HGVC permits ownership in an LLC or Trust?

 

[escanoe]

Disney will still ROFR here and there for specific resorts but it is no longer the price support that it once was circa 2021 and 2022. Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand of The Market" has been controlling prices

Technical indulgence:

ROFR is just as much of the market as the transactions between individuals being executed. It is also no more visible or invisible than the transactions between private individuals … only transparent to us because the party making an offer reports it.


ROFR may be a “price support” in the sense that it is increased demand that drives prices up … but it is a natural part of the market.