New member, looking to purchase Canyon Villas or Las Vegas

[AFJAY]

Looking for help...

We were in Las Vegas Last year and attended the TS presentations for Marriott, Hilton, and Westgate. We purchased "Trial" memberships in their programs. Westgate was a nightmare, and we will not do anything with them. We now are trying to decide if we want to do Marriott or Hilton. There are things I like about both, but It appears that the quality of the Marriott resorts seem to be a bit better, additionally I believe that I will like II better then RCI, however I have not used either.

Ok, so now if we go with Marriott... We have locked in Las Vegas at EOY for 15,890, and I'm being told we can get 100,000 points then 110,000 points was suppose to be EOY, but was told every year, need to confirm that.

We live in Colorado, we like to travel, however anything overseas would be a big trip for us, yes we want to do this, but it won't happen every year, or even EOY, but we are concerned about trade value, and Las Vegas being "overbuilt" however with II it may not be as big of an issues as I am thinking. It seems that they are offering more points for Las Vegas, and Platinum.

The other property we are looking at is Canyon Villa, I like the pool, shopping, spa of the JW Marriott etc... but don't know much about Phoenix. Do like the 3 stories and balconies and floor plans. We have an 8 year old, so maybe this would be a better property, but the cost is a tad bit more 17k something and only 75k points. Platinum EOY.

Any thoughts on these two and trade etc. We can usually get cheaper airfare to Las Vegas, but we also can drive 13+ hours to the Canyon Villa's, Vegas has shows, but maybe we can trade Canyon Villa's to Las Vegas...agh... Help....

Thanks

Jay

 

[capjak]

My personal preference would between those two would be Canyon Villas and to buy resale. You can drive to CAnyon Villas and you already know that you like and with an 8 year old the environment is better than Las Vegas and I would think it would trade as good as Las Vegas or better.

Marriott resales do not have the option of turning in the unit for marriott points and you will not get the incentive points if buying resale. However the price resale for Canyon Villas EVERY YEAR plat 2 bedroom would be less (maybe 13-15K) than the price you were quoted for a EOY.

 

[Janette]

For family time, I would select Canyon Villas. We had a very good time there a couple of weeks ago. It is not a place I would want to go every year but if you buy the right time of year, it should be a good trader to any other Marriott's you wish.

 

[Bill4728]

For a lot less than $16,000, you can buy an "ANNUAL" resell (not an EOY) at either of resorts.

For $16K ($12K for gold season) you can also buy an annual at Newport Coast in SoCal. Which IMHO, would be much better for you (with a 8 year old).

Good Luck

PS you need to determine for yourself if trading in your TS ( after paying the MFs and the fee for trading in your TS) is worth getting Marriott reward points. IMHO, it isn't. You can as a non marriott TS owner, buy 50K pts per year for $625. So in 2 years, you can buy 100K pts for $1250. AND still have annual use of your TS!

 

[kjd]

If you are interested in Las Vegas I would urge you to check out the 3br master suite before making any decision. Especially, the ones in building 1 or building 2. They are a unique product within MCVI and offer a lot of trading and renting power as well as provide for an exceptional Las Vegas vacation.

Whether you purchase re-sale or direct it doesn't matter. It depends on how you view using the point system and your future needs. There's good arguments for doing either purchase. While the 3 bedroom at MGC can be the most expensive unit in the development it is still at or below 2 bedroom units at some of the other new MVCI resorts.

It's a unique property because of the two full kitchens, lockoff into two distinct units, 2.000 sq ft, 3 baths with a double shower in the master and a panoramic view because of their location at the ends of each tower.

 

[JimC]

Phoenix over Las Vegas for anyone with a family. Phoenix in the spring has lots of baseball and the Canyon Villas/JW Marriott complex is very nice. I also agree with the Capjak that being able to drive is a nice plus, but a 13+ hour drive is very long for a day's drive. I generally recommend 500 miles per day, particularly with children.

Resale will get you every year for Marriott's price for EOY or will save you about half of what Marriott wants if you buy a EOY.

 

[dougp26364]

We own both Hilton and Marriott. In fact, we own at the HGVC LV Strip location and Marriott's Grand Chateau in Vegas.

There are sevearl points I agree with in the previous posts. First, learn about the resale market. As mentioned you can save thousands of dollars and there is no such thing as a "new" timeshare. You might also want to spend some time reading the Marriott forum to decide if the Marrriott Rewards points program is really of any value to you. With an EOY purchase, I doubt you find a lot of value in that program. If you purchase resale, you will not be able to exchange your unit for Marriott Rewards points but, that's the only downside to buying resale. Saving $5,000 to $10,000 on the cost of the purchase is more worthwhile to most people.

I also agree that Canyon Villa's, assuming you go with Marriott, would be a better family destination. We have been to the Scottsdale area and had a wonderful time. I would not buy a summer season week unless you REALLY like the hot weather. Grand Chateau's season is 1-51 Platinum while Canyon Villa's is divided, at the very least, into Platinum and Gold season's (I'm not certain if there is a Silver season there). Scottsdale in the hot summer sun won't trade exceptionally well but the Platinum season weeks should trade very well.

Also take into consideration the neighborhood that Grand Chateau in Vegas is in. You also have Polo Towers 200 + units and Westgates 2000 + units within easy walking distance. Many people feel that Vegas is becoming "overbuilt" with timeshares. This will affect your exchange opportunities. We have not had a problem exchanging Grand Chateau but, we generally ask for weeks that are considered shoulder season by many and would definately be when kids are in school. You might find it tougher sledding if you're having to travel during school breaks with getting the exchanges you want.

As for quality between Hilton and Marriott, both are reasonably equal IMO. Hilton's new resort on the strip, as a resort, is nicer than the Marriott. It has a much nicer pool complex, much nicer convenience store and overall better amenities for guest. I will say I like the units better at the Marriott but the units at the Hilton are very nice also.

As to sytems, like you, we prefer I.I. to RCI. However with HGVC you trade using points. Points trade reasonably well through RCI and, a HGVC representitive will handle all of your exchanges. This is good and bad in that you make one call but, you can't do online searches on your own. After you learn about timeshare it becomes irrittating to have to call and ask someone rather than going online an handling your exchange searches yourself.

Hilton's system does make it easier to do internal exchanges vs the Marriott system. Essentially, you go onto the Hilton site, decide where you want to go and make your reservation (if it's available). With Marriott you must reserve a week and then ask for an exchange (request first or deposit first, you'll have to decide). At resorts with long season that have relatively short desirable family time (Plat season runs March through Oct. but most owners want June-August weeks), there is STIFF compition to reserve a desirable week during your season. Many Marriott owners complain about having to be on the phone right when the Marriott office open up or lose getting a desirable week. Many complain they can't get a desirable week no matter what they do. Hilton's reservation system beats Marriott's hands down.

However, Hilton continues to overbuild in three major locations. Those being Vegas, Orlando and Hawaii. Marriott has many, many more locations for internal exchanges. That alone is why we own two 3 bedroom units with Marriott and only 7,000 points (one 2 bedroom plat. week) with Hilton. On the other hand, Hawaii with Hilton was a relatively easy exchange where with Marriott it's a deposit, request, waiting and hoping game.

Of the two systems, if I had to get rid of one and keep the other, I'd sell off my HGVC interest and keep our Marriott weeks. I prefer the variety of Marriott locations, the overall quality of the Marriott resorts, Interval International over RCI and the fact that Marriott keeps building in new locations rather than adding (overbuilding) in three major locations. If I were buying, I'd buy Marriott over Hilton for the same reasons. Marriott does have it's drawbacks and Hilton does have some advantages but, for our needs Marriott fits us better.

I would caution against buying in Vegas for two reasons. Vegas IS becoming overbuilt and, Vegas really isn't a family destination. The only exception IMO is Grand Chateau's three bedroom unit. For exchange purposes it's great because it lock's out into a full 2 bedroom and a full 1 bedroom unit rather than a 1 bedroom unit and a studio Unit.

With HGVC it's not so important where you own at as to how many points you own. I would not own less than 7,000 points. 7,000 points will get you a 2 bedroom internal exchange just about anywhere in the HGVC system or through RCI and, you're paying the same MF's as those that own 5,000 points (two bedroom Gold season) or even Silver season owners (3,500 points I think). With Hilton, points are points and can be used anywhere there is a room available and, since Hilton builds hundreds of rooms in the same locations there's generally rooms available. Most will buy where the MF's are least expensive and exchange into the rest of the Hilton resorts but, Hawaii is becoming a more difficult exchange as owners have caught onto this opportunity.

 

[hot2trot]

That's a tough choice. I love Canyon Villas, and I own the 3 bedroom annually in Vegas. I thought I would be doing a lot of trading with it but have found I actually have used it every year. The only challenge with CV is the platinum season is pretty big and if you want to be there in peak season it can be hard to get the reservation you want. The gold season is the summer months when it is hotter than hot and not a problem. I know people that live in Phoenix that own at CV just so they can use the pool and amenities! The advantage of CV is it has the JW Marriott right next to it. Consider the maintenance fees, the amount of points they trade for, the cost and the season you would use it and go from there.

Forget Hilton. Marriott has over 50 resorts you can do direct exchanges to. Every single Marriott property is fantastic, you will never be disapointed. Interval International has better properties than RCI and I think is easier to use.

 

[dougp26364]

Forget Hilton. Marriott has over 50 resorts you can do direct exchanges to. Every single Marriott property is fantastic, you will never be disapointed. Interval International has better properties than RCI and I think is easier to use.

It's not exactly direct exchanges with Marriott. You must do either a request first or deposit first through Interval International in order to exchange. Hilton, on the other hand, does have direct exchanges through their website for anything available in the HGVC system.

But, your point about number of resorts is well taken. It's why we own 2 Marriott weeks and would entertain buying another and why 1 week is plenty with Hilton.

 

[AFJAY]

Being able to "Direct" Trade Hilton to Hilton I did like that, but I after walking away from the sales table and having pause, and now having sometime, and will the help of this form, I am getting better educated. I have spoken with several folks at Marriott and they do understand the direct trade, and have said that Marriott is looking into that. Who knows... and they have been a ton more aggressive with "Sweeting" the offer, Marriott really has not done much other then say that my price has been frozen. Not sure if Marriott is doing better then Hilton, or not.

Anyway... my wife like what appeared to be the flexibility of Hilton, but I agree with others that they (Hilton) only has a focus on Las Vegas, Hawaii, Orlando, and I believe they are building in NYC. They have all the other hotels etc. but so does Marriott, and Marriott has so many more True vacation club locations. So I am really thinking I will be going with Marriott and II. Now I just need to decide on where... Looking like Las Vegas... I am still concerned about the "over growth" but I wondering if Marriott is trading through II, maybe less of an issue if others are trading through RCI.

Jay

 

[dougp26364]

Being able to "Direct" Trade Hilton to Hilton I did like that, but I after walking away from the sales table and having pause, and now having sometime, and will the help of this form, I am getting better educated. I have spoken with several folks at Marriott and they do understand the direct trade, and have said that Marriott is looking into that. Who knows... and they have been a ton more aggressive with "Sweeting" the offer, Marriott really has not done much other then say that my price has been frozen. Not sure if Marriott is doing better then Hilton, or not.

Anyway... my wife like what appeared to be the flexibility of Hilton, but I agree with others that they (Hilton) only has a focus on Las Vegas, Hawaii, Orlando, and I believe they are building in NYC. They have all the other hotels etc. but so does Marriott, and Marriott has so many more True vacation club locations. So I am really thinking I will be going with Marriott and II. Now I just need to decide on where... Looking like Las Vegas... I am still concerned about the "over growth" but I wondering if Marriott is trading through II, maybe less of an issue if others are trading through RCI.

Jay

If you consider HGVC, do NOT buy from the developer. There really is no advantage to buying from the developer as resales owners have almost all of the same privledges as those that buy from the developer including converting HGVC points to HHonors points. The only thing you lose buying HGVC resale is Elite status, which doesn't have enough advantages to make paying developer pricing worth the cost.

Personally, I prefer Marriott over Hilton. Yes Hilton is more flexible with their point system but, there just aren't that many opportunities to use their points. If you look closely at their affiliate resorts, most say limited availability.

Marriott has been "looking" at a direct internal exchange for some time now. While I'm hopeful, I'm not holding my breath waiting for them. They have implimented some sort of points based reservation system in Asia and that gives hope that it will move across the pacifc to their western resorts.

Whatever you do, take what any timeshare salesman tells you with a grain of salt. They're often the last to know and the first to tell you what you want to hear in order to close a sale.

 

[AFJAY]

If we end up with Las Vegas, does anyone else think the 3 bedroom would be worth the extra money instead of a 2 bedroom ? It's currently only my wife and I and our 8 year old daughter.

Jay

 

[CATBinCO]

Hey I just noticed you're in Longmont! I'm in the Springs...

You may want to consider 3 bdrms only if you think you will be having any more children AND if it's possible you may have family members come join you on vacation regularly. "Regularly" could be just every other year. If your family members may include nieces/nephews for your daughter to play with, then the 3bdrm could come in handy. Otherwise, you're paying more maintenance fees than a 2bdrm for something you may not be using/needing.

 

[kjd]

Children shouldn't be the major decision to buy in Las Vegas. While they should be a consideration in places like Orlando, LV has gotten off of the family entertainment theme that they pushed in the 80's and 90's with Circus-Circus and Excalibur. Not with the $25-30 buffets that are present everywhere. "Whatever happens in Las Vegas stays there" is not a theme most families will dentify with.

The value of the three bedroom unit is that it locks off into two units with full kitchens. It therefore gives an owner two weeks of use as well as being a strong trader to other destinations.

The two bedroom master suite is much different (and better) than the standard two bedroom unit in the same building. The same can be said for the one bedroom. The scarcity of these units makes them more valuable.

 

[dougp26364]

If we end up with Las Vegas, does anyone else think the 3 bedroom would be worth the extra money instead of a 2 bedroom ? It's currently only my wife and I and our 8 year old daughter.

Jay

Yes. In our case, it's just my wife and myself yet we own a 3 bedroom unit.

Our reasons are as follows.

1. LOCATION. The three bedrooms are at the end of the towers and have wonderful views out towards the strip. They are at an angle so, if something is built in front of MGC they will still have a good view.

2. Space. The three bedrooms master suite has a lot of space. It also has a lot of floor to ceiling windows for great views. The second bedroom has two queen size beds rather than one king size bed. That works out nice if you take a couple with you or if you take two individuals who don't want to sleep in the same bed. The second bedroom is spacious and has great views out of huge windows.

3. The lock out is a full 1 bedroom unit. This has better exchange power than a studio unit. You can also lock it out and have two weeks in nice units at MGC if that's what you want. In the traditional 2 bedroom unit you lock-out into a 1 bedroom and a studio. Exchanges are easier with the 3 bedroom unit IMO and, if you buy EOY but want to use it every year, lock out and exchange one or both sides. They trade reasonably well and, so far at least, we've been able to trade the 1 bedroom up into 2 bedroom units either at MGC or elsewhere.

 

[dougp26364]

Children shouldn't be the major decision to buy in Las Vegas. While they should be a consideration in places like Orlando, LV has gotten off of the family entertainment theme that they pushed in the 80's and 90's with Circus-Circus and Excalibur. Not with the $25-30 buffets that are present everywhere. "Whatever happens in Las Vegas stays there" is not a theme most families will dentify with.

The value of the three bedroom unit is that it locks off into two units with full kitchens. It therefore gives an owner two weeks of use as well as being a strong trader to other destinations.

The two bedroom master suite is much different (and better) than the standard two bedroom unit in the same building. The same can be said for the one bedroom. The scarcity of these units makes them more valuable.

Maybe you haven't heard the Mandalay Bay is replacing Momma Mia with The Lion King. Almost makes me wonder if Vegas isn't going to try to swing back to that family market again now that the economy it tanking and taking them with it.

But overall I agree, Vegas isn't the ideal vacation desination for children and probably never will be.

 

[Fern Modena]

I thought it is interesting that the Lion King is replacing Momma Mia (rather than another Cirque), and also that it is rumored Donny and Marie are being offered a two year extension. Looks more family-friendly to me, too. And don't forget that the Stations Casinos and South Point have movie theaters, arcades, and in many cases bowling. There are a lot of family-friendly things to do off Strip. How about the Pinball Hall of Fame? You can play a zillion pinball machines for a quarter or fifty cents a throw there.

Fern

Maybe you haven't heard the Mandalay Bay is replacing Momma Mia with The Lion King. Almost makes me wonder if Vegas isn't going to try to swing back to that family market again now that the economy it tanking and taking them with it.

But overall I agree, Vegas isn't the ideal vacation desination for children and probably never will be.

 

[rthib]

Love Vegas but would never buy there

I looked at both but decided on Canyon Villas.

Reasons I didn't buy in Vegas:
For me when I go to Vegas I want to experience Vegas, part of that is staying at the newest Resort (Bellagio, Venetian, Wynn etc...)
Lots and Lots of resort Hotels with cheap rates.
Has been an easy trade for me. I have used my lock off studio to get 2 bdrm for times I want to go to Vegas.
Except for New Years, can't think of any time when I have to be in Vegas.
For me Vegas is a long weekend - week is too long there.

Reason I bought Canyon Villas:
I can see going there every year.
Lots of times I want a specific time (Football:College,Superbowl, Spring Training, Barrett-Jackson)
Most of those are week events.

Just my .02

 

[Ggatorgirl]

Canyon Villas

We have owned a Plt and a Gold week at Canyon Villas for 5 years. Our intention was to go there for Spring Training (March Platinum season) and trade or convert the Gold week to MR points. In the 5 years, I have only been able to book the March week once. It is impossible to book at the 12 month window. The 2+ week Plt owners with their 13 month booking window grab up all the most preferred weeks. So I would NOT buy at MCV with the expectation of going during the March Spring Training/Break weeks.

 

[dougp26364]

We have owned a Plt and a Gold week at Canyon Villas for 5 years. Our intention was to go there for Spring Training (March Platinum season) and trade or convert the Gold week to MR points. In the 5 years, I have only been able to book the March week once. It is impossible to book at the 12 month window. The 2+ week Plt owners with their 13 month booking window grab up all the most preferred weeks. So I would NOT buy at MCV with the expectation of going during the March Spring Training/Break weeks.

Thus is one of the drawbacks of owning Marriott.

On the other hand, Marriott only releases 50% of the available inventory at the 13 month window. So there should still be 50% of the inventory remaining for 1 week owners. The problem is that Marriott has long Platinum season where all weeks are not equal and, Marriott's exchange system is based on reserving higher demand weeks. So not only are their owners trying to get prefered weeks at their own resorts for personal usage there are owners trying to get prefered weeks to maximize their exchange power, even if they don't really need it.

This exemplifies the one area that Hilton has advantage over Marriott. Hilton's points based reservation system allows Hilton to control inventory, thus allowing more owners to stay during prefered times at their home resorts. Of course one could say that with Hilton, you only get an averaged exchange power since 1 point at a Hawaiin resort has the same value as 1 point at an Orlando resort. Each system has it's positive's and it's drawbacks.

 

[rthib]

YMMV

We bought Canyon Villas in March of this year and were able to confirm once we closed in June.

Just went online and saw availability, so I booked big side Spring Training/Spring Break week and later Barrett-Jackson for the other side for 2009.

That said, I do have another week, so in the future I am not concerned about getting the week I want (using 13) but have found that by checking back every so often I usually see the week I want show up regardless.

Marriott seems to trickle out the rest of the units after the initial release date.

Persistence pays off (same with II)

But I agree, I would not buy a unit anywhere expecting to get a specific week every year. If you are not flexible with your time, T/S is not for you.