New Marriott Vacation Club Ownership levels announced

[Mroze]

I'm not going to believe anything that people interpret on this until we either see the FAQs updated to reflect this or real workd experience that isn't sales lying to people. Remembering that sales have spend over 15 years lying to MVC weeks owners that they had to make a purchase to be able to enroll their eligible weeks, when it could be done for free.

Here is the actual note. As you would expect its nice and wide open, so can be interpreted in any range of ways that suits whoever is interpreting it. The ONLY example it gives seems to be the one relating to an MVC direct purchase that enrolls and MVC resale purchase.

Thanks for the details.

I read this as any "Requalified Weeks" [Resale Weeks Enrolled as part of a Direct-Points Purchase] "Shall NOT be included" in calculating the new OBL's.
Also assume that any Resale Weeks automatically enrolled [E.g. VSN-Mandatory grandfathered in] will also NOT count.

 

[Hindsite]

I surmise, that MVW drops bulk developer inventory into the I.I. exchange and getaway buckets, for the sole purpose of soliciting new/non-MVW clients, while they are on vacation, representing a subset of vacationers that MVW has not churned and churned, to the point of no return. These non-MVW owners are a captive audience for MVW sales, while they are on vacation; as MVW puts it, they are “in the ether (as in anesthetic gas)" when they are on vacation; this is the perfect mix of a non-MVW owner, and a client “in the ether” for MVW to get in for the “sales kill,” while they are on vacation. And, in my opinion, the playing field has changed, where MVCI may have had some sales integrity, 20 or so years ago, all stops are off, and I expect these Diamond-esque creatures to introduce new levels of iconic, Diamond Resorts, guerrilla, sale and marketing techniques at MVW resorts.

As a sales tactic, this is completely out of step with the stated approach for MVC and is intrinsically wasteful. You are never going to convince the owner of +90% of the II non MVC/Sheraton or Westin cliental that paying tens of thousands in purchase price and upto 3 times the maint fees of what they deposited with II to buy direct. The conversation is a non-starter. There is no requirement in the II products for guests to attend a sales meeting, and the pricing, even for high season getaways is most commonly below the maint fees for the weeks.

They have been increasing the getaway pricing to more realistic levels, but it still doesn't get anywhere close to maint fee levels. Even as an MVC owner, when I can get a good shoulder season week 6 months in advance for a third of the maint fees that I pay for exactly the same ownership, its just not a value proposition that sales can beat. Plenty of people get excellent value from the points programme and many also don't like using II, so there are candidates, but it isn't the 1.5million II members, +500,000 of whom are already owners within the brand family.

It still amazes me.....

 

[Hindsite]

Thanks for the details.

I read this as any "Requalified Weeks" [Resale Weeks Enrolled as part of a Direct-Points Purchase] "Shall NOT be included" in calculating the new OBL's.
Also assume that any Resale Weeks automatically enrolled [E.g. VSN-Mandatory grandfathered in] will also NOT count.

I wouldn't assume anything. You would have thought that they would have mentioned the VSN mandatory resale pre Aug 2022 scenario, but its silent, hence having to wait until we learn more.

If you look up this thread to post 430, you'll see info from @Dean on how the decision might be made from data currently in the system, which is an educated and informed view based on information from a trusted source.

Given how the grandfathering in for free of VSN mandatory resales wasn't expected, I remain reluctant to make assumptions, but that won't stop sales making all sorts of rubbish up, or people making valid informed judgement based on the information they have access to.

There is no first mover advantage with this, as far as I can see, so no need to try and second guess to get ahead, so I choose to wait and be more convinced than I am now. Others can be quite right in taking a different approach, I just don't need to.

 

[WBP]

As a sales tactic, this is completely out of step with the stated approach for MVC and is intrinsically wasteful. You are never going to convince the owner of +90% of the II non MVC/Sheraton or Westin cliental that paying tens of thousands in purchase price and upto 3 times the maint fees of what they deposited with II to buy direct. The conversation is a non-starter. There is no requirement in the II products for guests to attend a sales meeting, and the pricing, even for high season getaways is most commonly below the maint fees for the weeks.

They have been increasing the getaway pricing to more realistic levels, but it still doesn't get anywhere close to maint fee levels. Even as an MVC owner, when I can get a good shoulder season week 6 months in advance for a third of the maint fees that I pay for exactly the same ownership, its just not a value proposition that sales can beat. Plenty of people get excellent value from the points programme and many also don't like using II, so there are candidates, but it isn't the 1.5million II members, +500,000 of whom are already owners within the brand family.

It still amazes me.....

Without hard data from MVW, conversation, toward this end, is left to speculation. However, having factual knowledge of MVW’s metrics, you’d be surprised at how many non-MVW owners exchange into MVW resorts, and, are so swayed by the resort, and their vacation experience, and they are so “in the ether,” that even an OK, at best, MVW sales executive, can get to a sale, based on the Marriott name, and the prospective Owners perceived value of the rhetoric and dazzle that the MVW sales person is providing them. Hence, first and foremost, MVW’s least expensive sales business is existing owner business, and owner referral business, but, next comes, people on vacation at MVW resorts, ideally people who have some level of loyalty to Marriott and Bonvoy, and who know and trust the Marriott name (which MVW is not). Hence, the MVW marketing people, pound hard, to get in-house guests to sales presentations.

 

[darius]

I'm not going to believe anything that people interpret on this until we either see the FAQs updated to reflect this or real workd experience that isn't sales lying to people. Remembering that sales have spend over 15 years lying to MVC weeks owners that they had to make a purchase to be able to enroll their eligible weeks, when it could be done for free.

Here is the actual note. As you would expect its nice and wide open, so can be interpreted in any range of ways that suits whoever is interpreting it. The ONLY example it gives seems to be the one relating to an MVC direct purchase that enrolls and MVC resale purchase.

View attachment 125790

My wife and I just did a owner update a few days ago, and we would have been "Reserve" with the weeks we have re-qualified (with a points based purchase back in 2013-2014). However, they insisted those weeks do not count for the new levels.

I will say their sales team was very professional, and tried to get us to buy more points to hit "Reserve" which we should already have based on what we were previously promised (We were promised when we requalified our weeks that those weeks would be treated identically as if we had bought from the developer) and offered a "one time only" offer of a 25,000 point exception and a 1000 MVC points (for something like $20K) to have us hit that level. We passed for reasons you all know, but in addition the fact they didn't honor what they previously promised of the requalified weeks purchased resale to be treated exactly as if purchased from the developer.

I am going to look for old emails from over 10 years ago to see what I can dig up to document/prove this point just out of principal (even though I do not see much value in the higher levels - but I am still going to explore this option).

What is incredible to me that how as a business organization you'd put on this restriction on folks who have requalified their weeks with promises that those weeks would be treated as if they were directly purchased from the developer and NOW you suddenly change the rules a decade later? And now you want us to trust you "this time" and purchase more? I am sure I'm not the only one that feels this way and I'm sure some law firm could challenge this and win big time against MVC similiar to the RCDC lawsuit that they also lost. These guys need to be taught a lesson - and I don't think they learned enough with the last lawsuit they lost... Just my 2 cents here.

If anyone has emails and/or documentation like I believe I have I'd use that as leverage to get them to honor what they've promised in the past.

Darius

 

[Eric B]

By the way, the "one time only" offer of a 25,000 point exception is actually documented in the May 1, 2026 version of the Abound Exchange Rules and runs through May 30, 2027. There is also a "one time only" offer of a 40,000 point exception for Pinnacle. I'm right with everyone who has requalifed ownerships on the MVW or Vistana side of things. No real reason to trust the organization for future treatment of sales incentives they provided for those purchases as all of the written rules regarding the benefits say that they reserve the right to change them without notice. We have enough points in MVW, Vistana, and RCC to make Pinnacle but seem to be getting left out from that; while the benefits include some nice to have things, I'm not convinced that they would be worth the additional annual dues.

 

[RookWDW]

My wife and I just did a owner update a few days ago, and we would have been "Reserve" with the weeks we have re-qualified (with a points based purchase back in 2013-2014). However, they insisted those weeks do not count for the new levels.

I will say their sales team was very professional, and tried to get us to buy more points to hit "Reserve" which we should already have based on what we were previously promised (We were promised when we requalified our weeks that those weeks would be treated identically as if we had bought from the developer) and offered a "one time only" offer of a 25,000 point exception and a 1000 MVC points (for something like $20K) to have us hit that level. We passed for reasons you all know, but in addition the fact they didn't honor what they previously promised of the requalified weeks purchased resale to be treated exactly as if purchased from the developer.

I am going to look for old emails from over 10 years ago to see what I can dig up to document/prove this point just out of principal (even though I do not see much value in the higher levels - but I am still going to explore this option).

What is incredible to me that how as a business organization you'd put on this restriction on folks who have requalified their weeks with promises that those weeks would be treated as if they were directly purchased from the developer and NOW you suddenly change the rules a decade later? And now you want us to trust you "this time" and purchase more? I am sure I'm not the only one that feels this way and I'm sure some law firm could challenge this and win big time against MVC similiar to the RCDC lawsuit that they also lost. These guys need to be taught a lesson - and I don't think they learned enough with the last lawsuit they lost... Just my 2 cents here.

If anyone has emails and/or documentation like I believe I have I'd use that as leverage to get them to honor what they've promised in the past.

Darius

This is the biggest issue with the new levels. They told everyone one thing back when, and now they are changing the rules in order to try and force more sales. Why ever believe anything they say if they can just change the rules whenever they want? I'd be curious to see your contact when you bought the enrollment package and see the precise wording on what they were offering you.

 

[darius]

This is the biggest issue with the new levels. They told everyone one thing back when, and now they are changing the rules in order to try and force more sales. Why ever believe anything they say if they can just change the rules whenever they want? I'd be curious to see your contact when you bought the enrollment package and see the precise wording on what they were offering you.

Agree 100%. I'll pull up what I've got which is the agreement but also I've got personalized emails that I believe (I was super careful when I did this) even locks this position in further. When I shared this with the sales rep, he stated that Marriott would (Best case) buy my points back for what I paid - lol, I said gladly I'll do that (And I'd push for a refund of all annual fees as well if they now choose not to honor their promises). These guys are truly incredible to think they can do this kind of thing and then "think" we'd give them more money and that "this time" we can trust them. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Red elephant]

My wife and I just did a owner update a few days ago, and we would have been "Reserve" with the weeks we have re-qualified (with a points based purchase back in 2013-2014). However, they insisted those weeks do not count for the new levels.

I will say their sales team was very professional, and tried to get us to buy more points to hit "Reserve" which we should already have based on what we were previously promised (We were promised when we requalified our weeks that those weeks would be treated identically as if we had bought from the developer) and offered a "one time only" offer of a 25,000 point exception and a 1000 MVC points (for something like $20K) to have us hit that level. We passed for reasons you all know, but in addition the fact they didn't honor what they previously promised of the requalified weeks purchased resale to be treated exactly as if purchased from the developer.

I am going to look for old emails from over 10 years ago to see what I can dig up to document/prove this point just out of principal (even though I do not see much value in the higher levels - but I am still going to explore this option).

What is incredible to me that how as a business organization you'd put on this restriction on folks who have requalified their weeks with promises that those weeks would be treated as if they were directly purchased from the developer and NOW you suddenly change the rules a decade later? And now you want us to trust you "this time" and purchase more? I am sure I'm not the only one that feels this way and I'm sure some law firm could challenge this and win big time against MVC similiar to the RCDC lawsuit that they also lost. These guys need to be taught a lesson - and I don't think they learned enough with the last lawsuit they lost... Just my 2 cents here.

If anyone has emails and/or documentation like I believe I have I'd use that as leverage to get them to honor what they've promised in the past.

Darius

They told me the same too!! A few weeks ago and attempted to sell me 1000 points to be grandfathered into something I will be grandfathered into. They are sick people. Trying to give me benefits that I already had as a 5 star elite with Vistana before Marriott came and took it away.

 

[Red elephant]

Agree 100%. I'll pull up what I've got which is the agreement but also I've got personalized emails that I believe (I was super careful when I did this) even locks this position in further. When I shared this with the sales rep, he stated that Marriott would (Best case) buy my points back for what I paid - lol, I said gladly I'll do that (And I'd push for a refund of all annual fees as well if they now choose not to honor their promises). These guys are truly incredible to think they can do this kind of thing and then "think" we'd give them more money and that "this time" we can trust them. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

It does not matter what the emails say as I have them too when I requalified but the docs say they can change the rules so that supersedes everything.

 

[Mroze]

We have +55.5K [MVC: 20.5K + Vistana: 35K] if they include our Enrolled/Re-Qualified purchases.
Since they exclude the Re-Qualified purchases, we are ~27.5K [MVC: 16.5K + VIS: 11K].

We have 6 x Resale 2BR WKV Platinum+ [24K] Mandatory that was Enrolled in Vistana [by purchasing Flex].
Prior to the new program rollout, we fell for their lies and Enrolled/Re-Qualified all our Mandatory WKV.
We also have ~11K [Westin Nanea] which we purchased direct by exchanging our Flex + $. This should be considered Direct.

There are now 3 x Types of WKV Mandatory Owners Enrolled in the Abound-Program.

• Those that purchased Direct from Vistana. Included in the OBL.
• Those that purchased Resale + Enrolled/Requalified [by purchasing Flex] Enrolled in Abound. NOT included in OBL.
• Those that purchased Resale + NOT Enrolled/Requalified but AUTO-Enrolled [Mandatory] in Abound. NOT included in OBL.

 

[claraj]

They will try to sell 1,000 points for anything they can think of. For example, they tried to sell me 1,000 points to "fix" the use year of my points contract to be calendar year because it will be "better" no thanks!

 

[pafort]

Interesting discussion. I've been an MVCI member since 2006, I owned one bed in Marbella (GOLD), and over time I went from two beds in Paris Ile de France (Silver, from 2008 to 2015) to three bed lockoffs (GOLD, from 2015 to present).
When the Club Destination points system was introduced in Europe in 2012, my weeks were registered (for around €1,500, I think) initially generating 4,025 points (2,225 + 1,800), then 5,425 (2,225 + 3,200).
The weeks cost me:
Marbella €18,400
Paris (silver) €15,100
Paris 3-bed lockoff upgrade (gold) +€16,450

Let's say that with about €50,000 I "purchased" 5,425 points (maintenance costs for 2026, approximately $3,900, plus the approximately $300 club membership fee).

In April of this year, I attended a sales presentation at the Marriott's Playa Andaluza (€75 in complimentary resort credit) using a 4-day, 3-night package with a rental car for €269.

I received an offer that I accepted, especially because it allowed me to reach the EXECUTIVE level, for the purchase of another week at Playa Andaluza. I chose the 3-bed lockoff (GOLD), which refunded 3,000 Destination points (plus an immediate gift of 3,000 points and A week to use with II) (MF 2026, approximately €1,800)
I paid €19,710, and the seller explained that the value of 3,000 points outside Europe, which still allows the purchase of weeks, was around $51,000. ($17 per point).
In reality, not knowing the value of points/$, I only remembered that in 2006, the same 3-bedroom lockoff unit (GOLD) in Playa Andaluza cost around €40,000, and the idea of buying it for half that 20 years later seemed like a good idea, considering that I can travel any time of the year, even taking advantage of periods close to check-in with a significant discount.
In the end, I'm an EXECUTIVE with 8,425 points, and I'd like to buy 1,575 points on resale simply to move up to the next level.

I've seen offers at $1 for 500 points at some resale agencies. By the way, reading all the forum posts, I saw that for $1, you can also sell points in non-European establishments. I'm not sure how the sum of points generated from European weeks and points generated from a resale purchase would work, though.
I read that in any case, you have to pay $3 per point to qualify for President level. I apologize for the length of this post and would appreciate a response.
Thanks

 

[Ken555]

After years in the timeshare world, I’ve learned one thing: the real money isn’t in owning a timeshare. It’s in selling them. Marriott figured this out decades ago, and they’ve been kind enough to keep proving it by periodically restructuring their loyalty program to create exciting new ways for their best customers to discover their previous “top tier” status was merely a stepping stone to the next upsell.

I bought weeks. I use them. I sleep fine.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[dougp26364]

It does not matter what the emails say as I have them too when I requalified but the docs say they can change the rules so that supersedes everything.

If there are enough owners with documentation, a case can still be made. Whether or not one thinks it would be successful, it might be more cost effective for MVW to relent and honor their promises than fight a potentially expensive court battle.

The lesson would come down to not making promises you dint intend to honor.

 

[DanCali]

If there are enough owners with documentation, a case can still be made. Whether or not one thinks it would be successful, it might be more cost effective for MVW to relent and honor their promises than fight a potentially expensive court battle.

The lesson would come down to not making promises you dint intend to honor.

I agree that, based on what it was at the time, requalified weeks should be treated as if bought from the developer.

"Status" is a nice thing to have but, honestly - for purposes of Reserve/Pinnacle who cares? Is there really anything in there that would change your vacation experience? These changes seem like a nothingburger, just like when they added the hotel option.

The whole thing defeats the purpose of increasing sales... How do they go to someone who is currently Chairman with 20K+ points and convince them to but more points to get to the next level when their total direct purchases to date may be just 3000 points; what will they say... "let's get you to Executive"?? I suspect very few have direct purchases that are close to their total current Abound point count.

 

[Eric B]

I agree that, based on what it was at the time, requalified weeks should be treated as if bought from the developer.

"Status" is a nice thing to have but, honestly - for purposes of Reserve/Pinnacle who cares? Is there really anything in there that would change your vacation experience? These changes seem like a nothingburger, just like when they added the hotel option.

The whole thing defeats the purpose of increasing sales... How do they go to someone who is currently Chairman with 20K+ points and convince them to but more points to get to the next level when their total direct purchases to date may be just 3000 points; what will they say... "let's get you to Executive"?? I suspect very few have direct purchases that are close to their total current Abound point count.

I believe the word is that requalified resale purchases will count up to Chairman’s Club but not for Reserve and Pinnacle. The rumor is that they’ve also stopped requalifying resale purchases. We’ll see how long all this lasts.

 

[HankW]

I believe the word is that requalified resale purchases will count up to Chairman’s Club but not for Reserve and Pinnacle. The rumor is that they’ve also stopped requalifying resale purchases. We’ll see how long all this lasts.

IMO, this approach will not lead to the best prospects to chase the newer levels, since the ROI Benefits from Charmain to Reserve/Pinnacle are not there. For sure, as a Charmain Club member with enough requalified CPs to be at Reserve, I plan to just focus on maximizing my usage across Abound and let others chase the superb benefits @ Reserve or Pinnacle.

 

[Eric B]

IMO, this approach will not lead to the best prospects to chase the newer levels, since the ROI Benefits from Charmain to Reserve/Pinnacle are not there. For sure, as a Charmain Club member with enough requalified CPs to be at Reserve, I plan to just focus on maximizing my usage across Abound and let others chase the superb benefits @ Reserve or Pinnacle.

Agreed. We have enough to be Pinnacle, but without resales would be Executive. Leaving out requalified resales will be costing them a segment of the potential client base that would probably be more valuable than the benefits cost them net the higher dues. I’m on the fence as to whether the value is there for me to have any regrets in any case.

 

[DanCali]

I believe the word is that requalified resale purchases will count up to Chairman’s Club but not for Reserve and Pinnacle. The rumor is that they’ve also stopped requalifying resale purchases. We’ll see how long all this lasts.

That's my point. If someone is already Chairman what do they have to sell that person if they only count 3000 points (in my example) for the next status but 20K the count points for the current status? It's going to be an awkward discussion...

 

[Mroze]

Agreed. We have enough to be Pinnacle, but without resales would be Executive. Leaving out requalified resales will be costing them a segment of the potential client base that would probably be more valuable than the benefits cost them net the higher dues. I’m on the fence as to whether the value is there for me to have any regrets in any case.

Many years ago at a sale presentation [hosted by a traveling Newport Coast team] I was told that "MVW goal is to have a very small % of owners at the highest levels".
Unsure of the actual % [maybe less than 5% or maybe 2%].

If they grandfathered in existing owners like me [by including Enrolled-Resales] the % of people at Reserve/Pinnacle could be over 20%.

 

[PhoenixCanuck]

Many years ago at a sale presentation [hosted by a traveling Newport Coast team] I was told that "MVW goal is to have a very small % of owners at the highest levels".
Unsure of the actual % [maybe less than 5% or maybe 2%].

If they grandfathered in existing owners like me [by including Enrolled-Resales] the % of people at Reserve/Pinnacle could be over 20%.

Both points here are exactly right.

I could see MVW running "one-time only" offers in the future to requalify externally acquired ownership towards Reserve and Pinnacle, but only with a new purchase of a minimum amount of trust points. That will be their opportunity to make incremental sales to existing Chairman owners, while still keeping the percentage of total owners at the highest two levels within reason.

I also think they will hold off on doing so until the 25K/40K grandfathering period expires, so that anyone using some requalified product towards making Reserve or Pinnacle would have to hit 30K or 50K, respectively, with their combined internal and external ownership.

 

[RookWDW]

I believe the word is that requalified resale purchases will count up to Chairman’s Club but not for Reserve and Pinnacle. The rumor is that they’ve also stopped requalifying resale purchases. We’ll see how long all this lasts.

Would that mean that the requalified resale weeks would continue to count through 15,000 points, but not beyond? Meaning if you had 50,000 points all through requalified resales, they will give you chairman and 15,000 points of that 50,000 would count toward the new levels? Thus, the new "sales" would be they need to sell you 15,000 extra points to get to Reserve? Or would your resale weeks simply count as zero points toward the new levels?

Regardless, I'm not sure there is any real value to go beyond Chairman so if they continue to recognize your resales to get to chairman it's not that much of a loss. Other than the blatant lies and cheating the system ....

 

[sponger76]

Would that mean that the requalified resale weeks would continue to count through 15,000 points, but not beyond? Meaning if you had 50,000 points all through requalified resales, they will give you chairman and 15,000 points of that 50,000 would count toward the new levels? Thus, the new "sales" would be they need to sell you 15,000 extra points to get to Reserve? Or would your resale weeks simply count as zero points toward the new levels?

Regardless, I'm not sure there is any real value to go beyond Chairman so if they continue to recognize your resales to get to chairman it's not that much of a loss. Other than the blatant lies and cheating the system ....

My reading is that requalified resales will count 100% toward Chairman or below status levels, but will not count at all toward Reserve/Pinnacle.

 

[DRH90277]

My reading is that requalified resales will count 100% toward Chairman or below status levels, but will not count at all toward Reserve/Pinnacle.

Where did you read or hear this - it is contrary to what I've been told. I think one of their objectives is to move owners up the chain to higher levels and this would disqualify many. They seem to have been quite generous in the past with considerable leniency toward granting benefits to lower levels.