New Marriott Vacation Club Ownership levels announced

[RookWDW]

What is VPG?

If they are targeting the high net worth people who are willing to drop $200k+ on a timeshare, my guess is those high net worth people likely don't enjoy the increase in regular renters (aka the "poors") hanging out by the pools. If they really want a high end customer you need to provide a high end product. The MVC resorts we stay are have all been nice, but not high roller nice. They would need to make it more exclusive by limiting renters (both from MVC or from owners) and trying to really increase owner usage at each property. If it's not exclusive, high rollers won't want it.

 

[dioxide45]

What is VPG?

Value per guest. It is the total of all sales minus marketing expenses and commissions divided by the number tours. Higher VPG is generally better. If you push quantity of tours, then VPG naturally drops. If you push quality of tour guests, the VPG might go up, but you also risk losing sales to some people that were weeded out.

 

[WBP]

What is VPG?

If they are targeting the high net worth people who are willing to drop $200k+ on a timeshare, my guess is those high net worth people likely don't enjoy the increase in regular renters (aka the "poors") hanging out by the pools. If they really want a high end customer you need to provide a high end product. The MVC resorts we stay are have all been nice, but not high roller nice. They would need to make it more exclusive by limiting renters (both from MVC or from owners) and trying to really increase owner usage at each property. If it's not exclusive, high rollers won't want it.

VOLUME per guest, as in SALES VOLUME (revenue in transacted sales volume) per guest.

For the sales staff, a developer looks at the number of guests that they put before a sales person and the volume (sales revenue) that that salesperson generates.

VPG=Number of Guests/Sales Volume
That means:

• Numerator = sales volume
• Denominator = number of guests

The VPG has a substantial and direct impact on a timeshare salesperson’s livelihood. Where they fall on the “sales line” is directly related to their VPG. The best salespeople are at the top of the line, and the most struggling/challenged, are at the bottom of the line. The poor salesperson who gets a bunch of mooches could be headed to financial/professional ruin. Most developers employ progressive discipline when salespeople fall below a certain VPG line.

Sales Management is subject to the same VPG criterion. If they have a winning sales team, they are rewarded, if they have a losing sales team, they are penalized. If you are a (sales) Director of Sales, or Project Director, your financial livelihood/career are determined by VPG’s, Income and Expenses, and guest and Associate Satisfaction Scores/Surveys. MVW hold their sales sites responsible/accountable for a variety of critical matrices (named above).

 

[Hindsite]

Income and Expenses, and guest and Associate Satisfaction Scores/Surveys. MVW hold their sales sites responsible/accountable for a variety of critical matrices (named above).

GSI is a significantly under utilised lever as far as those complaining about MVC performance goes, along with the specific naming of staff who perform well or not well in feedback. Those are really strong drivers of renumeration and career advancement in the organisation. Be sure that a resort GM will put the time in the drive change if their GSI is tanked by sales behaving badly to guests. It doesn't actually take much adverse data to drop a resort into the problem area on GSI, so if more people who did moan, actually filled in the forms, things would change.

 

[Dean]

I was talking to my contact yesterday and a few interesting tidbits came up. Apparently they are targeting a stock price of $140 to $150. To get there they are going to have to be more aggressive on the sales side. Specifically stated the top management is actively pushing more aggressive. Also pointed out the levels being grandfathered at the 25K & 40K so if anyone is close they might want to consider a small purchase to get there. We discussed the realities of the above, that this is likely a failed strategy. He said what he's getting from members is much like this thread, people are not happy. I feel for him and the others in the system that are good people.

 

[Eric B]

I was talking to my contact yesterday and a few interesting tidbits came up. Apparently they are targeting a stock price of $140 to $150. To get there they are going to have to be more aggressive on the sales side. Specifically stated the top management is actively pushing more aggressive. Also pointed out the levels being grandfathered at the 25K & 45K so if anyone is close they might want to consider a small purchase to get there. We discussed the realities of the above, that this is likely a failed strategy. He said what he's getting from members is much like this thread, people are not happy. I feel for him and the others in the system that are good people.

40K for Pinnacle and 25K for Reserve per the Abound Exchange Procedures @dioxide45 posted the link to. Cut off date for grandfathering is May 30, 2027.

 

[Dean]

40K for Pinnacle and 25K for Reserve per the Abound Exchange Procedures @dioxide45 posted the link to. Cut off date for grandfathering is May 39, 2027.

Thanks.

 

[ljmiii]

40K for Pinnacle and 25K for Reserve per the Abound Exchange Procedures @dioxide45 posted the link to. Cut off date for grandfathering is May 39, 2027.

I assume you mean May 29th, 2027?

 

[Mroze]

Here is an updated chart. This is from a pretty verified source. There are a few tweets and changes from the previous version and @Eric B will be happy that I incorporated the color coding

A few couple differences I see from what was provided earlier;

• Late banking. I think this allows owners to bank a percentage of Club Points after the regular banking deadline.
• Reserve and Pinnacle get a discount on Hotels via Abound Club Points (AFIK this is what we call Hello Hotels)

For calculating Status, do they consider combined ownership CLUB-POINTS [for those who own enrolled MVC + Vistana]?

BTW: Some numbers may need editing [possibly typos].

• Page-2: Exclusive Owner Level Discount [Last-Line] for Platinum-Elite shows 1500-Off, should be 150-Off.
• Page-3: Vacation-Tours for Pinnacle shows $60-Off, should be $600-Off.

 

[sponger76]

For all the levels, do they consider combined ownership CLUB-POINTS [for those who own enrolled MVC + Vistana]?

That's how it currently works. The main difference is that, for the two new levels, points from enrolled resales (with some possible but unclear exceptions) will not count.

 

[dioxide45]

I assume you mean May 29th, 2027?

It's actually May 30th.

From @Fasttr post #308.
1Pinnacle Member shall also include a Program Member who held at least 40,000 Exchange Points as of May 30, 2027, for so long as such Program Member holds not less than 40,000 Exchange Points.

2Reserve Member shall also include a Program Member who held at least 25,000 Exchange Points as of May 30, 2027, for so long as such Program Member holds not less than 25,000 Exchange Points.

 

[Mroze]

That's how it currently works. The main difference is that, for the two new levels, points from enrolled resales (with some possible but unclear exceptions) will not count.

All of our DCP-Points were purchased directly from MVC, however, all were Hybrid-Bundles [Points + Weeks]. Would those Weeks-Points values Count?

 

[sponger76]

All of our DCP-Points were purchased directly from MVC, however, all were Hybrid-Bundles [Points + Weeks]. Would those Weeks-Points values Count?

Nobody here knows for sure as of yet. Probably a lot of MVC salespeople don't know for sure yet, though they'll be quick to make something up to your face one way or another if they think it'll help them sell you more.

There is language that states that resales through "authorized resellers" might count and my assumption is that MVC would see their own sales offices as authorized resellers. But there's nothing in black and white and no confirmed real-world examples put out here on TUG so far.

 

[DanCali]

Didn't the last CEO learn that trying to target the upper income levels with a luxury product kinda backfired? It is why they are in this mess to begin with. When maintenance fees kept going up, Gellar tried saying they were selling a luxury product to high income tour guests and owners. That is when sales started to tank, then it wasn't much long after that where Gellar was shown the door.

(Very) upper income levels usually didn't get there by being stupid. Sure, they like status and benefits, and will splurge on first class airfare, luxury cruises etc. But when the benefits are offering $0.30-$0.40 per point and the maintenance fees are $0.80 per point that's not a strong selling point. Especially when the upfront cost is $18+ per point. And you probably don't have to be super upper income to see that...

 

[DanCali]

If they are targeting the high net worth people who are willing to drop $200k+ on a timeshare, my guess is those high net worth people likely don't enjoy the increase in regular renters (aka the "poors") hanging out by the pools. If they really want a high end customer you need to provide a high end product. The MVC resorts we stay are have all been nice, but not high roller nice. They would need to make it more exclusive by limiting renters (both from MVC or from owners) and trying to really increase owner usage at each property. If it's not exclusive, high rollers won't want it.

It's the product itself that's not suitable for that clientele. Whether it's the renters or the owners from the past 30+ years roaming the pools, it's still the same "ordinary" folks.

It sounds like Ritz, Four Seasons or St. Regis is a more appropriate product.

 

[sponger76]

It's the product itself that's not suitable for that clientele. Whether it's the renters or the owners from the past 30+ years roaming the pools, it's still the same "ordinary" folks.

It sounds like Ritz, Four Seasons or St. Regis is a more appropriate product.

And if they own at those fancy properties, for the most part they wouldn't want to exchange them to stay at MVC/Vistana properties that are quite simply lower tier, so the extra benefits of Reserve/Pinnacle don't have much allure.

 

[dioxide45]

It sounds like Ritz, Four Seasons or St. Regis is a more appropriate product.

All products, in addition to Grand Residences, that never took off and one could consider to be failed concepts.

 

[dioxide45]

And if they own at those fancy properties, for the most part they wouldn't want to exchange them to stay at MVC/Vistana properties that are quite simply lower tier, so the extra benefits of Reserve/Pinnacle don't have much allure.

It is why a number of properties dumped Marriott Vacation Club. Jupiter Florida was out and I recall at least one other. Even on the Hyatt side, their property in Aspen even dropped Marriott Vacations. I believe both went to Timbers Resorts. That is the same company that took over the Ritz Carlton property that was at Kauai Lagoons and built the Timbers Kauai. Even the Marriott Kauai Lagoons was supposed to be a Grand Residences but was switched over to Marriott Vacation Club during the financial crisis. It didn't sell all that well and most of the weeks there sit in the Abound Trust.

 

[Red elephant]

I was talking to my contact yesterday and a few interesting tidbits came up. Apparently they are targeting a stock price of $140 to $150. To get there they are going to have to be more aggressive on the sales side. Specifically stated the top management is actively pushing more aggressive. Also pointed out the levels being grandfathered at the 25K & 40K so if anyone is close they might want to consider a small purchase to get there. We discussed the realities of the above, that this is likely a failed strategy. He said what he's getting from members is much like this thread, people are not happy. I feel for him and the others in the system that are good people.

In Aruba and they tried to sell me a week in St Kitts to get the 3450 points I needed to get to reserve. When I said no thanks they offered 1000 points to grandfather me in to reserve. I said no . I did not even mention to them that I was aware 25k points would grandfather me in. So they are hoping people don’t know about the grandfather clause.

 

[Dean]

All of our DCP-Points were purchased directly from MVC, however, all were Hybrid-Bundles [Points + Weeks]. Would those Weeks-Points values Count?

My contact told me he's happy to check on anyone's account to see if they want. You can likely do that online yourself as well. You can see it yourself if you start the enrollment option on the website. He also told me they plan to stop enrollments completely for external weeks but we'll see if that happens or not. I would assume any bundles bought direct would quality but as noted, we don't know for certain.

 

[sponger76]

It is why a number of properties dumped Marriott Vacation Club. Jupiter Florida was out and I recall at least one other. Even on the Hyatt side, their property in Aspen even dropped Marriott Vacations. I believe both went to Timbers Resorts. That is the same company that took over the Ritz Carlton property that was at Kauai Lagoons and built the Timbers Kauai. Even the Marriott Kauai Lagoons was supposed to be a Grand Residences but was switched over to Marriott Vacation Club during the financial crisis. It didn't sell all that well and most of the weeks there sit in the Abound Trust.

The Bachelor Gulch (Beaver Creek, CO) location is the other former RCC I'm aware of that dropped that branding and went over to Timbers.

 

[DanCali]

My contact told me he's happy to check on anyone's account to see if they want. You can likely do that online yourself as well. You can see it yourself if you start the enrollment option on the website. He also told me they plan to stop enrollments completely for external weeks but we'll see if that happens or not. I would assume any bundles bought direct would quality but as noted, we don't know for certain.

I had a presentation where I was offered a hybrid package and declined. When the manager came in, I told her I needed an offer to enroll resale weeks, and that it had to be attractive enough to me. She said they had that type of offer a few weeks earlier but it ended. She also asked me "what will you do if we stop enrolling resale weeks" and I replied, "then I won't buy anything...".

Let's face it - resale points are identical to direct (unless you consider now these new benefit levels, but if they don't count all the enrolled resale weeks, I'm too far away from anything for it to matter). The main reason to buy direct is if they offer something you can't get anywhere else. Enrolling a resale week is one of those things, so taking that away can't possibly help sales.

 

[sponger76]

The main reason to buy direct is if they offer something you can't get anywhere else. Enrolling a resale week is one of those things, so taking that away can't possibly help sales.

Exactly this. I don't see anyone with half a brain looking at the situation and saying "Ok, I guess I'll buy retail only, and in fact I'll buy MORE retail than I was originally planning." More likely most people would just say "Never mind, there's no point."

 

[chosshaul]

I've got about 1.5 million in cash I would like to spend on abound points so I can join Pinnacle. I'm going to head over to the Marriot Grande VIsta tomorrow and get this done. My kids are a little worried about the maintenance fees but I told them I can always get them extra work at the beef gristle mill.

 

[rjb172]

Seems like they're making the Abound program a system of "haves" versus the "have nots," which is a pretty big gamble. If the high rollers don't bite, it may be too late for MVC to win back their core demographic.

For the average person, this is all the more reason deeded weeks present a much better value proposition than points.