New Marriott Vacation Club Ownership levels announced

[Eric B]

The pitch I've already heard is that you will be able to use the "equity" in those requalified weeks towards a new purchase that would count towards those tiers. IMHO, the top two tiers aren't going to drive sales much, though there will be some status seekers. There isn't that much that I think is compelling in value in the new benefits at the high end; St Regis access might be nice but I probably wouldn't go to those more than once or twice and can already get there through ThirdHome. Late banking is kind of "meh" and still not as good as the old Vistana 5 star elite deadline. Automatic banking only lasts one year vice two. Discounts on short notice bookings aren't a bad thing, but if you've already got 50K+ points they're hard to fit in, particularly with the new restriction to owner-occupied bookings. Room/view upgrades could be nice - they probably should have been doing those already since there's no real cost if the upgraded unit is available when they do it near check in; I seriously doubt it will be at booking, which would cost. Early check in is something most people already get if it's available - the only way to avoid it at most resorts that are staffed by human beings would be to seriously annoy the front desk staff. Hotel discounts look like they would just cut into the profit margin for those conversions and not truly cost anything (or be worth paying for the privilege). All that being said, I would welcome the new benefits if my requalified resales got me them.

On the other end of the spectrum, I'm not sure they've done enough at the low end. There are no doubt a lot more potential customers at the owner and select levels, where they've made some improvements to the program like reducing the minimum duration of 13-month bookings, apparently eliminating the premium for those bookings, and adding a 30-day discount. Someone that only owns 2K points would need to bank and borrow to be able to afford 7 nights in a high demand week, after all; that could take 3 years of ownership credit and more planning than a lot of people put into things. It's not clear to me whether the 2-year banking duration in the VSN for everyone had a negative effect on higher elite tier owners. IMHO it wouldn't have all that negative an effect on the developer, who gets to rent out the unused inventory.

Bottom line for me is that it looks like more focus and a lot of fluff at the top end and some minor useability improvements at the bottom end. Hilton went all in at the bottom end with the DRI and BG acquisitions - we'll see which one does better over the next few years.

 

[Seaport104]

The pitch I've already heard is that you will be able to use the "equity" in those requalified weeks towards a new purchase that would count towards those tiers.

I bet they will try to get owners with great weeks to turn in for a large chunk of "equity" in exchange for points and/or less desirable week. They sure are learning from the sales strategies they use in Mexico timeshare sales!

 

[daviator]

I bet they will try to get owners with great weeks to turn in for a large chunk of "equity" in exchange for points and/or less desirable week. They sure are learning from the sales strategies they use in Mexico timeshare sales!

Yes, my thoughts exactly. This may all be a big ploy to get back lots of deeded weeks – never to be sold as weeks again – as MVC tries to starve the pool of deeded weeks down to the point where booking becomes difficult and the holdouts have to trade them in and buy points (or so they think.)

I hope people don't fall for it. Weeks>Points, especially when they can be elected for points as desired.

 

[Hindsite]

I hope people don't fall for it. Weeks>Points, especially when they can be elected for points as desired.

It all depends on how people are using their resale weeks. As with currently, there are a few use cases where the trade-in of weeks for points makes sense for people, or they can at least make it sound like sense to themselves and they don't want to achieve the same thing via another means such as renting what they want.
- If they are occupying or renting but their requirements have changed such that they no longer want to occupy or rent and they want to have points to travel differently then it could work OK.

I can't see anyone who is currently using resale weeks even half decently in II wanting to pay to trade in for club points. If you reliably wanted to go to one of the places like WLR that II only has smaller units and you wanted a 2-bed it could be worth it, but the alternative would be to buy a 2-bed at WLR. The gap between what you exchange in II vs what it would take to get the same via Abound is so big in most seasons, that even the cost of II exchange fees etc doesn't alter the decision.

The numerical reality is that more and more inventory is making its way into the US land Trust, but given I've not noticed any deterioration in the ability to get what I want via II in the last +15 years the points system has been in place, I expect to have another 20 or so years before it actually becomes something that would make me consider changing my ownership and I don't expect to still have the travel requirements I do now then.

I remain very surprised how much good MVC inventory goes into II, given a lot of it could be owned by MVW and could legitimately go to Abound. Perhaps with the new world order at MVW they will prioritise Abound more. If they could crack the technical challenge of listing across multiple platforms concurrently that would show where demand drives the best value.

 

[Dean]

I bet they will try to get owners with great weeks to turn in for a large chunk of "equity" in exchange for points and/or less desirable week. They sure are learning from the sales strategies they use in Mexico timeshare sales!

From what I've seen on the "equity" trades, it's a VERY poor deal unless you just want out of the old week AND also would buy the new options (points or weeks at resorts that don't have points). I believe you get what you paid but pay the new price (possibly discounted up to 20%) for the new options. Plus I don't think they'll take back undesirable weeks under this program in most cases.

 

[dioxide45]

Marriott has posted revised exchange procedures with all the details.

https://content.marriottvacationclub.com/enrolldocs/usc/disclosureguide-english.pdf

 

[Fasttr]

SCHEDULE “3”
2026 Dues Exchange Company Dues Effective 2026
Membership Level
Pinnacle $750
Reserve $400
Chairman’s Club $320
Presidential $300
Executive $300
Select $255
Member $255

 

[Fasttr]

Schedule 4 footnotes....

1Pinnacle Member shall also include a Program Member who held at least 40,000 Exchange Points as of May 30, 2027, for so long as such Program Member holds not less than 40,000 Exchange Points.

2Reserve Member shall also include a Program Member who held at least 25,000 Exchange Points as of May 30, 2027, for so long as such Program Member holds not less than 25,000 Exchange Points.

3Limits on Interests Acquired from Third Parties. Only Interests acquired by a Program Member from Marriott Ownership Resorts, Inc. (or an affiliate thereof), and certain Interests (as determined by Exchange Company in its sole discretion) acquired by a Program Member from or through an Approved Broker, shall be included in determining whether such Program Member has achieved Reserve or Pinnacle level status. For purposes of clarification, Interests that were not acquired by Program Member from Marriott Ownership Resorts, Inc. (or an affiliate thereof), but were enrolled in the Exchange Program in connection with a promotion requiring Program Member to purchase a minimum number of Club Points in the MVC Trust from Marriott Ownership Resorts, Inc. as a condition of such enrollment, shall not be included in determining whether such Program Member has achieved Reserve or Pinnacle level status.

4Chairman’s Club Member shall also include a Program Member who held at least 13,000 Points as of April 29, 2015 for so long as such Program Member holds not less than 13,000 Points.

5Executive Member shall also include a Program Member who held at least 6,500 Points, but not more than 9,999 Points, as of April 29, 2015, for so long as such Program Member holds not less than 6,500 Points.

6Requirement to Maintain Minimum Club Points Ownership. Interests that were not acquired by Program Member from Marriott Ownership Resorts, Inc. (or an affiliate thereof), but were enrolled by Exchange Company in the Exchange Program in connection with a promotion by Program Member on or after May 1, 2026 requiring purchase of a minimum number of Club Points in the MVC Trust from Marriott Ownership Resorts, Inc. (“Minimum Club Points”) as a condition of such enrollment shall be included in determining whether such Program Member has achieved Select, Executive, Presidential or Chairman’s Club level status only for so long as such Program Member continues to own such Minimum Club Points.

 

[Hindsite]

Great! Rubber hits the road time!

So does this mean: You can't get to Reserve and Pinnacle using any: requalified Vistana resales, mandatory resale Vistana pre Aug 2022 that are already enrolled, resale MVC Club points where the initiation fee to enrol them has been paid? Not sure I ever understood the resale fractionals that are enrolled, are they from an approved broker?

3Limits on Interests Acquired from Third Parties. Only Interests acquired by a Program Member from Marriott Ownership Resorts, Inc. (or an affiliate thereof), and certain Interests (as determined by Exchange Company in its sole discretion) acquired by a Program Member from or through an Approved Broker, shall be included in determining whether such Program Member has achieved Reserve or Pinnacle level status. For purposes of clarification, Interests that were not acquired by Program Member from Marriott Ownership Resorts, Inc. (or an affiliate thereof), but were enrolled in the Exchange Program in connection with a promotion requiring Program Member to purchase a minimum number of Club Points in the MVC Trust from Marriott Ownership Resorts, Inc. as a condition of such enrollment, shall not be included in determining whether such Program Member has achieved Reserve or Pinnacle level status.

Does this mean: You can still enrol an MVC week via a direct purchase of Club points, but that week will only stay enrolled as long as you continue to own those club points?

6Requirement to Maintain Minimum Club Points Ownership. Interests that were not acquired by Program Member from Marriott Ownership Resorts, Inc. (or an affiliate thereof), but were enrolled by Exchange Company in the Exchange Program in connection with a promotion by Program Member on or after May 1, 2026 requiring purchase of a minimum number of Club Points in the MVC Trust from Marriott Ownership Resorts, Inc. (“Minimum Club Points”) as a condition of such enrollment shall be included in determining whether such Program Member has achieved Select, Executive, Presidential or Chairman’s Club level status only for so long as such Program Member continues to own such Minimum Club Points.

 

[Hindsite]

June 2022 vs May 2026 - looks like you can still buy resale club points and pay the initiation fee to enrol them not sure whether OBL is part of "Special benefits", looks not to be but depends on how they feel.

 

[igopogo]

Not sure I ever understood the resale fractionals that are enrolled, are they from an approved broker?

Resale fractionals have to be from an approved broker in order to be enrolled. But the points still look to be excluded here in the “clarification.”

Interestingly many of us purchased weeks, not points, to enroll fractionals. The exclusion only mentions the purchase of points to enroll. But I’m guessing that’s not an important distinction.

I think I’m okay not paying the $750.

 

[dansimms]

While I do think that a time-bound product offering could be worthwhile, for a 5, 10 and 15 year term, I can't imaging why MVW shareholders would want to underwrite your enduring purchase and I can't imagine the effect on maintenance fees if the HoAs have to cover the cost. Remember its the HoA that actually have the problem of unsold or delinquent inventory to deal with. Its an excellent thing that MVW routinely take on responsibility for orphaned or abandoned inventory, but I don't believe they are obliged to under the contracts.

I just think it would be the most powerful legitimate selling point sales would have and that sales would improve dramatically.

 

[HankW]

Resale fractionals have to be from an approved broker in order to be enrolled. But the points still look to be excluded here in the “clarification.”

Interestingly many of us purchased weeks, not points, to enroll fractionals. The exclusion only mentions the purchase of points to enroll. But I’m guessing that’s not an important distinction.

I think I’m okay not paying the $750.

No lawyer here, but it feels like they have options, discretion, and decisions open to interpretation. Their call based on sales metrics.

 

[DanCali]

Great! Rubber hits the road time!

The other rubber that’s going to hit the road are the soles of my sneakers when a presentation hits 90 minute mark…

I have no idea why they think this is going to generate more sales starting with the new actual benefits offered all the way to how most people here understood they would be grandfathered into any new benefit levels after previously already making a developer purchase to enroll weeks.

Until now I was with the mentality that if the price is right I may buy something to enroll some resale weeks that I have. If anything, this policy disincentivizes me because I still won’t get the new benefits. The price I’m willing to pay just went down…


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[Kildahl]

With negligible benefits at the Chainman level, the 2 new levels are of no interest.

 

[tribune1]

OK @Wanderlustgrl @Dean While I believe this info that you have shared is legit. FB community has as you know total sarcasm and doubt until they see if from MVC. Do either of you know when a formal announcement will be published? Some people insist on living with their heads in the sand. SMH.

As you all know I was calling this BS as of last night. Not anymore.

Had an owners presentation yesterday at Marriott Ocean Watch and was presented the new program. Two new tiers on top of Chairman. (based on higher points). Was told this would be active June 1st. Spent most the time going thru the new website. (To be rolled out August 1st) Lots of new features that will be nice. Also was told that the new point levels for all the catagories will be going up but existing owners would be grandfathered into current levels. Lots of new features, but we thought the cost of adding more points was not worth the new features.

 

[mjm1]

……

Does this mean: You can still enrol an MVC week via a direct purchase of Club points, but that week will only stay enrolled as long as you continue to own those club points?

Looking at point 6, the enrolled unit that resulted from buying points or a week, such as Aruba or Spain, directly from MVC would still be counted toward levels up to Chairman unless the transaction took place on or after May 1, 2026.

We took advantage of buying some points, which we have since sold, in order to enroll a week, so I am glad to hear we won’t be affected by this new rule. I’m sure many others feel the same way. It’s certainly a heads up for anyone who may want to take advantage of that program in the future. MVC better have a very visible disclosure about this rule, but 8 wouldn’t be surprised if it isn’t even mentioned by the sales reps. Buyer beware!

 

[Hindsite]

@dioxide45 There is some blog content out there attributed to you that has a narrower definition of the potential resale restrictions than the updated exchange procedures that you posted indicate. Specifically there is no mention of Approved reseller purchases in the content below, there may also be finer details in the application of the exchange procedures that have not yet been flushed out.

 

[suzannesimon]

I wonder how many Pinnacle owners exist? I would think any owner at that level is probably a commercial enterprise and not interested in any of this. We’re Chairman level but if we were Owner or Select, my main concern would be always getting the parking lot views after the higher levels get their room/view upgrades.

 

[daviator]

Still somewhat undefined is whether ownerships purchased resale but requalified through purchase of some product other than Abound trust points (for example, requalification of a Vistana resale week through purchase of another Vistana week or points product in the pre-MVC days, which was a pretty common transaction back then) would count. The terms posted above are silent/vague about how this kind of purchase will be treated.

I think there are a lot of former Vistana owners in this boat (I'm not one of them.)

 

[dioxide45]

@dioxide45 There is some blog content out there attributed to you that has a narrower definition of the potential resale restrictions than the updated exchange procedures that you posted indicate. Specifically there is no mention of Approved reseller purchases in the content below, there may also be finer details in the application of the exchange procedures that have not yet been flushed out.

View attachment 125364

I haven't flushed through the Exchange Procedures yet, and the blog was written before those procedures were discovered. I also don't know whether “Approved Reseller” matters much in this context because, so far, I don't believe Marriott has ever had approved brokers or resellers, even when referenced in prior versions of the Exchange Procedures related to Special Benefits. This resale restriction mentioned in the blog is a direct footnote from the Owner Benefit Level charts shared in post #50 and from a disclosure document I have.

 

[Hindsite]

I haven't flushed through the Exchange Procedures yet, and the blog was written before those procedures were discovered. I also don't know whether “Approved Reseller” matters much in this context because, so far, I don't believe Marriott has ever had approved brokers or resellers, even when referenced in prior versions of the Exchange Procedures related to Special Benefits. This resale restriction mentioned in the blog is a direct footnote from the Owner Benefit Level charts shared in post #50 and from a disclosure document I have.

yep, and the initiation fee is still in the procedures so we don't actually know whether that enrolment path does or doesn't count towards the current or new levels in the future or from the past, same for requal of Vistana and any mandatory resale Vistana pre Aug 2022 that is already in Abound. Other than the fractional brokers that can resell with enrollment, its MVC in their many forms who broker resale between owners and take a 50% cut. I've not seen them do that with point, just with weeks.

 

[WBP]

Where there’s smoke, there’s fire.

A famous person used to say, “Hang out in the gutter, and you get dirty."

I read through the exchange procedures, once, it will take several more reads for me to digest this PRO DEVELOPER - ANTI-CONSUMER Ponzi scheme that is built like a deck of cards, to denigrate “weeks” and “weeks owners."

In my opinion, we, owners/members are in very bad company with Marriott Vacations Worldwide.

It is not clear to me, what lines exists between MVC and Interval International (given their common ownership), and how MVW could carefully control the inventory going into and coming out of Interval International, and likely the exchange methodology/algorithm at Interval International, for MVC owners.

 

[WBP]

Marriott has posted revised exchange procedures with all the details.

https://content.marriottvacationclub.com/enrolldocs/usc/disclosureguide-english.pdf

I believe this DEVELOPMENT is cause for this Disclosure Document to receive added, stand alone traction, as its own thread. I am concerned that a development, as significant as this one, is lost in this thread, and will be missed by a large population of MVW owners with a vested interest in this.

 

[Eric B]

I believe this DEVELOPMENT is cause for this Disclosure Document to receive added, stand alone traction, as its own thread. I am concerned that a development, as significant as this one, is lost in this thread, and will be missed by a large population of MVW owners with a vested interest in this.

IMHO the entire purpose of this thread was to discuss the details of the changes documented in the document. No doubt it will be updated in the stickies.