New DC Minimum Purchase--1000 points

[jlepstein1]

I attended a sales presentation today and was told that the minimum DC point purchase has recently been reduced to 1000 points. Previously it was 2000 points. The price quoted was $10.92 per point.

I was offered the following incentives (or features)
a. 25,000 MRP for self-referral
b. Marriott Platinum elite status for 3 years (no minimum stay required)
c. Ability to charge 100% of the purchase on my Marriott Rewards Visa card, thus earning an additional 57,700 points (5 points per $)
d. Ability to convert 75% of my DC Trust points to MRP at a conversion rate of 32:1. Thus, my 1000 DC points could be traded every year for 24,000 MRP.

I'm considering this offer, since the purchase of 1000 points will put me over 13,000 and therefore I will qualify for Premier Plus, with more flexible reservation policies. That is really the only advantage. With 12,435 points Legacy Points I have enough for 2 ten day vacations at high season at almost any resort. The extra thousand points won't add a lot of days to those vacations but will allow me to reserve vacations of less than 7 days with 13 months forward timing.

Last year, when the minimum purchase was 2,000 points, I did not spring for the bait. This year, I'm tempted.

I would appreciate feedback and input from Tuggers about this offer. Thanks.

 

[dioxide45]

The minimum purchase when the program was rolled out on 6/20/2010 was also 1000. It went up gradually and appears that you can once again get them to sell only 1000 DC points. The don't push this option, but if you balk at just about any offer this is the last resort.

Only you can decide if Premier Plus is important. Some have found that the 13 month reservation advantage doesn't help a lot with legacy points because there isn't a lot of inventory in the exchange company to reserve. Using those 1000 trust points shouldn't be an issue at 13 months, but there isn't much you can do with 1000 points.

 

[SueDonJ]

If you supplement timeshare stays with Marriott hotel stays, I think the 45% Premier-Plus-with-VISA discount might be worth just as much as the reservation window advantage. BUT ...

One thing to consider is that the thresholds for Premier and Premier Plus are not absolute - they represent the 20% and 5%, respectively, "of the aggregate of all Exchange Points that are held by all Exchange Members." They were set at the introduction of the DC and are currently at 13,000 and 6,500 Points, but we don't know when or if that will change.

Even more important to consider is that the DC allotments for existing Weeks, what we're calling Legacy Points, can be changed at any time. At the very least I would expect re-allocations according to fluctuations in demand at the resorts, and possibly according to the number of DC-enrolled owners who actually convert their Weeks to DC Points usage. At the very worst I would expect a gradual decline of allotments with Marriott maybe not having to adhere to resort-specific allocations. IOW, Marriott may have free reign to simply decrease Legacy Point values on a continuing basis as the years go on. (*I'm saying "maybe" and "may" because when the DC was first rolled out there was some confusing language in the docs that said Marriott could only decrease one sector if they increased another. That language has disappeared. It's anybody's guess now, and generally I'm more comfortable with expecting the worst.)

So if you're an Enrolled Weeks owner who's considering a purchase of DC Trust Points with the expectation of retaining Premier or Premier Plus status, you could be setting yourself up for a never-ending "must purchase more" nightmare. In some respects this is no different from when Weeks were the only game in town because multi-Weeks get you a reservation window advantage and priority placement for home resort stays, and the newer resorts generally carry more exchange power than the older ones. But IMO the DC-enrolled metric is much more subject to devaluation than the Weeks metric.

 

[SueDonJ]

You know, I thought of something today that I don't know if we've discussed it before and it might fit into this thread's "minimum purchase" topic.

If you buy, say, 5,000 DC Points, are all of those points purchased in one contract which, if re-sold, must be re-sold as a single contract? Or can you re-sell only a portion of your total initial purchase?

The reason I ask is, over on the disboards the savvy DVC owners recommend that if you are buying more than the minimum number of points, you should break them up into separate contracts because DVC resales consist of a transfer of the entire contract. The fewer points attached to a contract, the easier it is to resell.

(I know, I know, resales of DC Points are toxic for any number of reasons other than this one, but I'm just curious.)

 

[dioxide45]

Looking at the recorded deeds, Marriott is deeding them ad BI (Beneficial Interests). These are 250 point allotments. Each BI has a number assigned to it. While it could be physically possible to deed out only certain BIs. I don't know if Marriott would permit it and transfer them to the new owners name.

I know in the weeks system, if you bought multiple weeks and they were on the same deed you could deed out a single week from that multiple week deed.

Good question, and I think only Marriott could provide the answer.

 

[windje2000]

One thing to consider is that the thresholds for Premier and Premier Plus are not absolute - they represent the 20% and 5%, respectively, "of the aggregate of all Exchange Points that are held by all Exchange Members." They were set at the introduction of the DC and are currently at 13,000 and 6,500 Points, but we don't know when or if that will change.

Even more important to consider is that the DC allotments for existing Weeks, what we're calling Legacy Points, can be changed at any time. At the very least I would expect re-allocations according to fluctuations in demand at the resorts, and possibly according to the number of DC-enrolled owners who actually convert their Weeks to DC Points usage. At the very worst I would expect a gradual decline of allotments with Marriott maybe not having to adhere to resort-specific allocations. IOW, Marriott may have free reign to simply decrease Legacy Point values on a continuing basis as the years go on. (*I'm saying "maybe" and "may" because when the DC was first rolled out there was some confusing language in the docs that said Marriott could only decrease one sector if they increased another. That language has disappeared. It's anybody's guess now, and generally I'm more comfortable with expecting the worst.)

So if you're an Enrolled Weeks owner who's considering a purchase of DC Trust Points with the expectation of retaining Premier or Premier Plus status, you could be setting yourself up for a never-ending "must purchase more" nightmare. In some respects this is no different from when Weeks were the only game in town because multi-Weeks get you a reservation window advantage and priority placement for home resort stays, and the newer resorts generally carry more exchange power than the older ones. But IMO the DC-enrolled metric is much more subject to devaluation than the Weeks metric.

Didn't know that language is gone. Thanks for staying up to speed on the docs

If the points allocations continually and materially decline, owners of fixed weeks will simply not play anymore. The thresholds for Prem and PremPlus could decline.

Even if the allocations declined, most multiple weeks legacy exchange members would probably stay for the fee advantages, (and inertia) . . . if the bundled fee benefit persists.

Legacies not playing is the last thing M presently wants. M currently needs and wants legacies to be enrolled in DC. That M corporate II account was created for a reason, since M simply could have made a deal with II to pay the II membership fees & exchange fees for M owners' MtoM trades and avoid a lot of administrative effort. There's something 'more' involved in that structure that creates a benefit for M.

M has created enough problems with the needlessly complicated DC program without adding to them by futzing around with points allocations. My take is the fee advantages and points allocations will not be materially changed for the forseeable future.

They might when the dust settles. IMHO, that'll be a while.

So expect the worst, . . . somewhere down the road.

 

[SueDonJ]

Looking at the recorded deeds, Marriott is deeding them ad BI (Beneficial Interests). These are 250 point allotments. Each BI has a number assigned to it. While it could be physically possible to deed out only certain BIs. I don't know if Marriott would permit it and transfer them to the new owners name.

I know in the weeks system, if you bought multiple weeks and they were on the same deed you could deed out a single week from that multiple week deed.

Good question, and I think only Marriott could provide the answer.

Okay, I'll add it to the list, then. I'm keeping a list just in case I decide to agree to a DC Points purchase during a sales presentation (instead of simply burning the play money that will have apparently fallen from heaven.) "If someone with the authority does not provide written, legally-binding answers to these questions 48 hours in advance of the rescission deadline, you will have a copy of my rescission letter on your desk the next day. Thank you."

 

[SueDonJ]

Didn't know that language is gone. Thanks for staying up to speed on the docs

If the points allocations continually and materially decline, owners of fixed weeks will simply not play anymore. The thresholds for Prem and PremPlus could decline.

Even if the allocations declined, most multiple weeks legacy exchange members would probably stay for the fee advantages, (and inertia) . . . if the bundled fee benefit persists.

Legacies not playing is the last thing M presently wants. M currently needs and wants legacies to be enrolled in DC. That M corporate II account was created for a reason, since M simply could have made a deal with II to pay the II membership fees & exchange fees for M owners' MtoM trades and avoid a lot of administrative effort. There's something 'more' involved in that structure that creates a benefit for M.

M has created enough problems with the needlessly complicated DC program without adding to them by futzing around with points allocations. My take is the fee advantages and points allocations will not be materially changed for the forseeable future.

They might when the dust settles. IMHO, that'll be a while.

So expect the worst, . . . somewhere down the road.

Of course you're right - it's a balancing act we're all playing. I guess what I should have said is that I want to make sure that I know the worst that could happen and why it would be in Marriott's best interest to not let it happen.

I haven't actually scoured the docs for every change but when the language about re-allocations disappeared from the Points Charts, my first thought was that there didn't appear to be anything in the Enrolled Weeks docs to support that language and so we Exchange Members might not have that protection.

When it comes to purchased DC Points, though, I think there probably still is protection from re-allocations that don't require a balance. Not having purchased DC Points I don't have access to those docs, but if we consider that Marriott's Trust is based in Florida then Marriott probably has to conform to the same Florida-based legalities that DVC does. DVC is set up with each individual resort being a single entity with its own Point allotment and allocation, and any increase in Point requirements in the calendar at a single resort must be offset by a decrease somewhere in the same calendar. As well, I believe annual changes to the DVC calendars cannot exceed a certain percentage. (Not certain here, I might be confusing this with the percentage limits for annual increases in DVC's maintenance fees.)

Of course Marriott's Trust is comprised of all of their resorts, which means they have greater leeway than DVC to, for example, continuously increase the Point requirements for newer/higher-demand resorts if they simply offset them with decreases at any of the other resorts. So it appears DC Trust purchasers are protected from devaluations due to re-allocations more than Enrolled Weeks owners but probably not as much as DVC owners. I think.

 

[pwrshift]

Thus, my 1000 DC points could be traded every year for 24,000 MRP.

.

What is the MF on those 1000 DC points (I'm not joining the DC and haven't kept up)? You could buy 24,000 MRP for $300 from Marriott at $0.0125 per pt. If the MF on 1000 DC points is higher, this is not a good deal.

http://www.marriott.com/rewards/usepoints/tranpurc.mi

btw...each MR member can buy up to 50,000 MR pts a year (100,000 per couple) before the end of December. You could get or gift as much as 200,000 buying in Dec and in Jan ... for $2500. As long as you get a vacation that would cost you more than $2500 you'd come out ahead...or to just build up your MR account total for a package buy of Biz class flights to Europe and hotels for a week or two.

Brian

 

[RBERR1]

No absolute definitive rule (lots of speculation) on how legacy and trust points can/can't be combined when making reservations.

No exact clarity on ability to resell them.

No major sightings of people getting less than 7 day reservations between 12 and 13 months.

Premiere plus discount for MVCI reservations a little better than Premiere.

Can rent the extra 1000 pts on an annual basis if you need it for $400-$600.

You get 20% discount for pts reservations at 14 days vs. 7. How often can you book last minute vacations to take advantage.

IMHO,Where is the real upside on this considering it is over a $10,000 purchase?

 

[Art]

What is the MF on those 1000 DC points (I'm not joining the DC and haven't kept up)? You could buy 24,000 MRP for $300 from Marriott at $0.0125 per pt. If the MF on 1000 DC points is higher, this is not a good deal.

http://www.marriott.com/rewards/usepoints/tranpurc.mi

btw...each MR member can buy up to 50,000 MR pts a year (100,000 per couple) before the end of December. You could get or gift as much as 200,000 buying in Dec and in Jan ... for $2500. As long as you get a vacation that would cost you more than $2500 you'd come out ahead...or to just build up your MR account total for a package buy of Biz class flights to Europe and hotels for a week or two.

Brian

As long as the maintenance fee holds at $0.40 per DC point, it is a wash with buying MR points directly. That is, using 750 DC points at $0.40 to get 24,000 MR points will cost $300. So, the primary value is convenience in being able to dispose of a small number of residual DC points rather than having them expire..

Art

 

[BocaBoy]

The minimum purchase when the program was rolled out on 6/20/2010 was also 1000. It went up gradually and appears that you can once again get them to sell only 1000 DC points. The don't push this option, but if you balk at just about any offer this is the last resort.

The bolded language may be true at some locations, but not at the Maui Ocean Club. In fact, our sales person started out by saying that if we had any desire to purchase points he would recommend a 1,000 point purchase, and pointed out that they were offering a 10% (I think) price cut to something under $10/point. He said this 1,000 point level was only available to enrolled owners. He gave us a printed list of the incentives being offered for all point purchase levels, but never even suggested we consider buying more than 1,000.

He also said that MVCI would at some point be introducing a "resignation program" where they would buy back trust points at perhaps 60% of the purchase price if you want to sell. He further suggested that we might want to wait until that program was introduced before considering the purchase of any trust points.

 

[Cobra1950]

Wow, I am sure glad I ignored the whole points thing, from this blog it would appear to be an ever evolving house of cards

 

[windje2000]

Of course you're right - it's a balancing act we're all playing. I guess what I should have said is that I want to make sure that I know the worst that could happen and why it would be in Marriott's best interest to not let it happen.

I haven't actually scoured the docs for every change but when the language about re-allocations disappeared from the Points Charts, my first thought was that there didn't appear to be anything in the Enrolled Weeks docs to support that language and so we Exchange Members might not have that protection.

When it comes to purchased DC Points, though, I think there probably still is protection from re-allocations that don't require a balance. Not having purchased DC Points I don't have access to those docs, but if we consider that Marriott's Trust is based in Florida then Marriott probably has to conform to the same Florida-based legalities that DVC does. DVC is set up with each individual resort being a single entity with its own Point allotment and allocation, and any increase in Point requirements in the calendar at a single resort must be offset by a decrease somewhere in the same calendar. As well, I believe annual changes to the DVC calendars cannot exceed a certain percentage. (Not certain here, I might be confusing this with the percentage limits for annual increases in DVC's maintenance fees.)

Of course Marriott's Trust is comprised of all of their resorts, which means they have greater leeway than DVC to, for example, continuously increase the Point requirements for newer/higher-demand resorts if they simply offset them with decreases at any of the other resorts. So it appears DC Trust purchasers are protected from devaluations due to re-allocations more than Enrolled Weeks owners but probably not as much as DVC owners. I think.

You might want to take another read of this post LINK in this thread.

 

[dioxide45]

The bolded language may be true at some locations, but not at the Maui Ocean Club. In fact, our sales person started out by saying that if we had any desire to purchase points he would recommend a 1,000 point purchase, and pointed out that they were offering a 10% (I think) price cut to something under $10/point. He said this 1,000 point level was only available to enrolled owners. He gave us a printed list of the incentives being offered for all point purchase levels, but never even suggested we consider buying more than 1,000.

He also said that MVCI would at some point be introducing a "resignation program" where they would buy back trust points at perhaps 60% of the purchase price if you want to sell. He further suggested that we might want to wait until that program was introduced before considering the purchase of any trust points.

You are correct, and to go even further it probably varies from one sales person to another. Though we have been to five presentations at five properties in a little over a year and all of them started higher and only offered the 1000 after we balked at each point amount. Though I think there was a time in there that 1000 wasn't an option.

 

[SueDonJ]

You might want to take another read of this post LINK in this thread.

Interesting. But it's three days before Christmas and there's wrapping and cooking to be done, so I'm coming back to this next week.

(Gosh that sounds like I'm thinking that I'm worthy of announcing my intentions, doesn't it? Blech! Really, I'm just doing this to bookmark it!)

 

[tiel]

If you supplement timeshare stays with Marriott hotel stays, I think the 45% Premier-Plus-with-VISA discount might be worth just as much as the reservation window advantage. BUT ...

I've been away for awhile and am just catching up. This comment caught my eye. Does this discount apply to hotel stays too? I thought it was just on timeshare rentals. If so, what is the code you enter when making a reservation? MOD will get you a discount on timeshare rentals on Marriott.com, but not on hotels. Am I confused...again?!?!?

 

[dioxide45]

I've been away for awhile and am just catching up. This comment caught my eye. Does this discount apply to hotel stays too? I thought it was just on timeshare rentals. If so, what is the code you enter when making a reservation? MOD will get you a discount on timeshare rentals on Marriott.com, but not on hotels. Am I confused...again?!?!?

Here are the codes from another thread:

MOD - Owner 25% Discount - 35% if you pay with the Marriott Visa.
Y85 - Premier Owner 30% Discount.
Y83 - Premier Owner 40% Discount when you pay with the Marriott Visa.
P34 - Premier Plus Owner 35% Discount.
P33 - Premier Plus Owner 45% Discount when you pay with the Marriott Visa.

From looking at a few rates, it does appear to be limited to MVCI properties. It may include some hotel properties as the MOD rate did. This was usually in Thailand and I think sometimes in St Kitts. However, it is pretty much a villa rental discount and doesn't include hotel stays.

 

[m61376]

It would be nice to put those codes on top as a stickie for future reference for everybody, both for easy access and to alert everybody that they exist.

 

[tiel]

Here are the codes from another thread:



From looking at a few rates, it does appear to be limited to MVCI properties. It may include some hotel properties as the MOD rate did. This was usually in Thailand and I think sometimes in St Kitts. However, it is pretty much a villa rental discount and doesn't include hotel stays.

Thanks for clearing this up for me!