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Need to get MIL out of WM

sailgazelle

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My MIL is 91 with cognitive impairment and a now-very limited budget. She and her husband bought into WM a million years ago and continued buying in over the years. Considering how little they used it, we always advised against "investing" more but alas... Anyhoo, her husband passed recently so now the $675 monthly maintenance fees are hers to deal with alone. She wanted to bequeath it to her kids when she passes but none of us wants it, so she's agreed to do what needs to be done to get her out from under this financial burden. I've offered to do the research to get it done right with the hope we can sell her points so she gets *something* out of it, but there's precious little legit-looking info online. I just happened to stumble across this forum and hoped ya'll might be able to help as I know next to nothing about how exiting WM works. I've poked around but couldn't find exit guidance that suited the situation -- please point me in the right direction if I missed it. (Her daughter has Power of Attorney and is happy I'm doing some research. I can do nothing myself, aside from look at her online account.)

Here are the details of her account:
Loan balance: $0
Dues: $675 monthly (up to date)
Credits: 44,402
Points: 91,000
Member level: WM+A Premier

It looks like we can sell her points (but not the credits??) on eBay, etc, but it also appears there's a transfer fee. Who pays that typically and how much is it? What kind of paperwork is involved? Would we be transferring her actual membership or just the maintenance of the points? That's murky, esp since I don't currently have access to the contract. Should we call WM Cares and talk to them before or after selling the points? Since I don't trust WM after taking these old folks for $350K over the years (NOT including maintenance fees), I'm leery of calling them and giving them the heads up.

Again, if there's an exit guide somewhere on this forum, please just point me to it. Thanks for helping this newbie!
 

echino

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Worldmark has some resale value. Start your research here:

 

Mongoose

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My MIL is 91 with cognitive impairment and a now-very limited budget. She and her husband bought into WM a million years ago and continued buying in over the years. Considering how little they used it, we always advised against "investing" more but alas... Anyhoo, her husband passed recently so now the $675 monthly maintenance fees are hers to deal with alone. She wanted to bequeath it to her kids when she passes but none of us wants it, so she's agreed to do what needs to be done to get her out from under this financial burden. I've offered to do the research to get it done right with the hope we can sell her points so she gets *something* out of it, but there's precious little legit-looking info online. I just happened to stumble across this forum and hoped ya'll might be able to help as I know next to nothing about how exiting WM works. I've poked around but couldn't find exit guidance that suited the situation -- please point me in the right direction if I missed it. (Her daughter has Power of Attorney and is happy I'm doing some research. I can do nothing myself, aside from look at her online account.)

Here are the details of her account:
Loan balance: $0
Dues: $675 monthly (up to date)
Credits: 44,402
Points: 91,000
Member level: WM+A Premier

It looks like we can sell her points (but not the credits??) on eBay, etc, but it also appears there's a transfer fee. Who pays that typically and how much is it? What kind of paperwork is involved? Would we be transferring her actual membership or just the maintenance of the points? That's murky, esp since I don't currently have access to the contract. Should we call WM Cares and talk to them before or after selling the points? Since I don't trust WM after taking these old folks for $350K over the years (NOT including maintenance fees), I'm leery of calling them and giving them the heads up.

Again, if there's an exit guide somewhere on this forum, please just point me to it. Thanks for helping this newb
WM doesn't have points, only credits. It sounds like you have a 44,000 credit account with 91,000 banked (the math seems a little off). You have two options here. You can rent your banked credits to other owners at sites like https://wmowners.com/forums/credits-for-rent-out.67 or on facebook for no fees for about $0.07-0.08 each credit or $6-7K while you try and sell your contract. These would likely go in smaller quantities (10-20K credits per transaction) but will probably go in 1-2 weeks. Payment can be handled via services like Zelle. This is probably your best option. The account itself you can sell on the TUG marketplace or ebay. They sell for about $0.10 a credit so you might fetch another $3-4K for the contract. Your second option is to sell the contract "fully loaded" with the credits. This might get you $5-7K or a little more. But you are really better off selling the banked credits separately. Keep the maintenance fees current and be watchful of the expiration date of the 91K credits. At a minimum, rent the 44,402 that expire this year before you lose them.
 
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sue1947

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My MIL is 91 with cognitive impairment and a now-very limited budget. She and her husband bought into WM a million years ago and continued buying in over the years. Considering how little they used it, we always advised against "investing" more but alas... Anyhoo, her husband passed recently so now the $675 monthly maintenance fees are hers to deal with alone. She wanted to bequeath it to her kids when she passes but none of us wants it, so she's agreed to do what needs to be done to get her out from under this financial burden. I've offered to do the research to get it done right with the hope we can sell her points so she gets *something* out of it, but there's precious little legit-looking info online. I just happened to stumble across this forum and hoped ya'll might be able to help as I know next to nothing about how exiting WM works. I've poked around but couldn't find exit guidance that suited the situation -- please point me in the right direction if I missed it. (Her daughter has Power of Attorney and is happy I'm doing some research. I can do nothing myself, aside from look at her online account.)

Here are the details of her account:
Loan balance: $0
Dues: $675 monthly (up to date)
Credits: 44,402
Points: 91,000
Member level: WM+A Premier

It looks like we can sell her points (but not the credits??) on eBay, etc, but it also appears there's a transfer fee. Who pays that typically and how much is it? What kind of paperwork is involved? Would we be transferring her actual membership or just the maintenance of the points? That's murky, esp since I don't currently have access to the contract. Should we call WM Cares and talk to them before or after selling the points? Since I don't trust WM after taking these old folks for $350K over the years (NOT including maintenance fees), I'm leery of calling them and giving them the heads up.

Again, if there's an exit guide somewhere on this forum, please just point me to it. Thanks for helping this newbie!
WM accounts have value and can be sold. Not nearly as much as she paid, but something.
You want to go to wmowners.com which is for and by Worldmark owners. Specifically, the classified ad section. Start here:WM sales discussions. where you can ask questions. Then go to the forum for renting out credits; this means transferring credits from your account to another owner's. Then the forum to sell the whole account. You can get an idea of how what things sell for.

Many will rent out credits first before selling. It sounds like this. is a pretty large account and renting out the credits may make it easier to sell by reducing the total cost. The wmowners website has quite a few sellers of accounts as well as a list of trusted individuals.

Credits and points are the same thing. WM calls them credits, while other timeshares call them points.
Start a thread at wmowners and include the following: (they can also help you find this information)
Number of annual points/credits.
Number of credits Available and number of credits available to borrow.
Number of housekeeping available.
Is this a travel share account (has no value when you sell but TS dues are part of the maintenance fees and eliminating that will reduce your costs).
 

DaveNV

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WorldMark is a Club. It is not deeded ownership. What she owns is a membership in the club, and receives a certain number of credits issued annually. They expire 25 months after issuance. The maintenance fees she pays monthly allows her to book and use those credits at WorldMark resorts, or to exchange out via an external exchange company.

I'm seeing a different number than @Mongoose does above. Based on the $675 MONTHLY maintenance fee payment, it would appear her account is about 100,000 credits. Not sure if I've misread something.

When you do sell things, the transfer fee is $299, payable to the WorldMark people. This is an administrative charge they assess for replacing your MIL's name with the new owner's name. There is a simple form WM provides for the purpose. There are no recorded deeds or anything. Transfer takes about a month or so, once paperwork is submitted.

I'd suggest starting by contacting WorldMark and asking for an estoppel on the account. It'll give you status of things, so you'll know exactly what she has to work with. Then, based on information you're getting above, you can decide how best to move forward. There is value, as others have said, but nothing near what they paid, sadly.

Good luck!

Dave
 
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Mongoose

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WorldMark is a Club. It is not deeded ownership. What she owns is a membership in the club, and receives a certain number of credits issued annually. They expire 25 months after issuance. The maintenance fees she pays monthly allows her to book and use those credits at WorldMark resorts, or to exchange out via an external exchange company.

I'm seeing a different number than @Mongoose does above. Based on the $675 MONTHLY maintenance fee payment, it would appear her account is about 100,000 credits. Not sure if I've misread something.

When you do sell things, the transfer fee is $299, payable to the WorldMark people. This is an administrative charge they assess for replacing your MIL's name with the new owner's name. There is a simple form WM provides for the purpose. There are no recorded deeds or anything. Transfer takes about a month torso, once paperwork is submitted.

I'd suggest starting by contacting WorldMark and asking for an estoppel on the account. it'll give you status of things, so you'll know exactly what she has to work with. Then, based on information you're getting above, you can decide how best to move forward. There is value, as others have said, but nothing near what they paid, sadly.

Good luck!

Dave
I didn't check the MF chart. Good thinking. Also when you do sell, consider using a transfer service like LTTransfers to handle the paperwork. The cost is around $250-350. Also WM will probably only talk to the people that are listed on the contract so that might be a headache to straighten out.
 

echino

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I didn't check the MF chart. Good thinking. Also when you do sell, consider using a transfer service like LTTransfers to handle the paperwork. The cost is around $250-350.

Not necessary to use a title company, as there is no deed.
 

Eric B

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OP should look into whether the account is a no-housekeeping account and would have higher value on the resale market. WorldMark probably wouldn’t volunteer that info.
 

DaveNV

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OP should look into whether the account is a no-housekeeping account and would have higher value on the resale market. WorldMark probably wouldn’t volunteer that info.

Excellent point!

Dave
 

jrb916

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OP should look into whether the account is a no-housekeeping account and would have higher value on the resale market. WorldMark probably wouldn’t volunteer that info.
Find out when they first bought. If it was prior to July 1991 it would be NHK (no housekeeping) is my understanding.
 

sailgazelle

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I appreciate all of the advice! I will start at WMOwners and go from there. To clarify about points & credits, I misread the dashboard (my SIL called them "points", so I assumed and didn't look carefully) -- she has 44,402 credits and 91,000 credits available to borrow. As for "housekeeping", does that mean the cleaning fee, or something else more corporate-y? They DO get housekeeping credits, which are currently at 0. Thanks again to everyone who took the time and effort to help us out!
 

Eric B

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I appreciate all of the advice! I will start at WMOwners and go from there. To clarify about points & credits, I misread the dashboard (my SIL called them "points", so I assumed and didn't look carefully) -- she has 44,402 credits and 91,000 credits available to borrow. As for "housekeeping", does that mean the cleaning fee, or something else more corporate-y? They DO get housekeeping credits, which are currently at 0. Thanks again to everyone who took the time and effort to help us out!
Every account gets an allowance of housekeeping "tokens" to cover the cleaning of the room between stays. It takes one housekeeping token for each stay booked or deposited with RCI or II. There are some old accounts out there that were purchased prior to the institution of the housekeeping token system that retain the ability to book without using housekeeping tokens - that ability transfers with the account if done properly and that makes those accounts more valuable. If you run out of housekeeping tokens, you can pay an extra fee depending on the unit size to cover the cleaning.
 

WManning

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Find out when they first bought. If it was prior to July 1991 it would be NHK (no housekeeping) is my understanding.
A no HK account is worth more then without unlimited HK's
 

DaveNV

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I appreciate all of the advice! I will start at WMOwners and go from there. To clarify about points & credits, I misread the dashboard (my SIL called them "points", so I assumed and didn't look carefully) -- she has 44,402 credits and 91,000 credits available to borrow. As for "housekeeping", does that mean the cleaning fee, or something else more corporate-y? They DO get housekeeping credits, which are currently at 0. Thanks again to everyone who took the time and effort to help us out!

91,000 credits "available to borrow" indicates she has a 91,000 credit account (less that the 100,000 I estimated previously.) Credits you can borrow is against the next year's allotment. So there may be 44,402 credits in the currently available portion, but on the anniversary date another 91,000 will roll in. As credits expire 25 months after being issued, chances are, if things haven't been used in awhile, a great number of credits have expired and disappeared from the account. The 44,402 in the account currently are at risk, if they are approaching that 25-month window.

OP, before you get too far into WMowners.com, get an estoppel from WorldMark. You have to know what is and isn't going on with that account. Anyone interested in buying will want to know what's what. The estoppel will tell you that.

Dave
 

sailgazelle

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91,000 credits "available to borrow" indicates she has a 91,000 credit account (less that the 100,000 I estimated previously.) Credits you can borrow is against the next year's allotment. So there may be 44,402 credits in the currently available portion, but on the anniversary date another 91,000 will roll in. As credits expire 25 months after being issued, chances are, if things haven't been used in awhile, a great number of credits have expired and disappeared from the account. The 44,402 in the account currently are at risk, if they are approaching that 25-month window.

OP, before you get too far into WMowners.com, get an estoppel from WorldMark. You have to know what is and isn't going on with that account. Anyone interested in buying will want to know what's what. The estoppel will tell you that.

Dave
Will do. Thank you for taking your time to help me!
 

easyrider

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My MIL is 91 with cognitive impairment and a now-very limited budget. She and her husband bought into WM a million years ago and continued buying in over the years. Considering how little they used it, we always advised against "investing" more but alas... Anyhoo, her husband passed recently so now the $675 monthly maintenance fees are hers to deal with alone. She wanted to bequeath it to her kids when she passes but none of us wants it, so she's agreed to do what needs to be done to get her out from under this financial burden. I've offered to do the research to get it done right with the hope we can sell her points so she gets *something* out of it, but there's precious little legit-looking info online. I just happened to stumble across this forum and hoped ya'll might be able to help as I know next to nothing about how exiting WM works. I've poked around but couldn't find exit guidance that suited the situation -- please point me in the right direction if I missed it. (Her daughter has Power of Attorney and is happy I'm doing some research. I can do nothing myself, aside from look at her online account.)

Here are the details of her account:
Loan balance: $0
Dues: $675 monthly (up to date)
Credits: 44,402
Points: 91,000
Member level: WM+A Premier

It looks like we can sell her points (but not the credits??) on eBay, etc, but it also appears there's a transfer fee. Who pays that typically and how much is it? What kind of paperwork is involved? Would we be transferring her actual membership or just the maintenance of the points? That's murky, esp since I don't currently have access to the contract. Should we call WM Cares and talk to them before or after selling the points? Since I don't trust WM after taking these old folks for $350K over the years (NOT including maintenance fees), I'm leery of calling them and giving them the heads up.

Again, if there's an exit guide somewhere on this forum, please just point me to it. Thanks for helping this newbie!

Call Worldmark @ 800-457-0103 and use option 4 to find out what you have . You could also log into your mom's account to find this information. You might consider using a broker regarding selling such a large account. These accounts can be broken up into smaller accounts that are affordable.

Bill
 

bizaro86

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Just to give an idea of value, I'd say that account is worth in the neighborhood of $9,000 USD. Maybe more, maybe a bit less. But don't take any PMs offering to buy it for $1500 or anything like that. Obviously the lower the price the quicker the sale, but I just wanted to give you a sense of the value.
 

sailgazelle

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Just to give an idea of value, I'd say that account is worth in the neighborhood of $9,000 USD. Maybe more, maybe a bit less. But don't take any PMs offering to buy it for $1500 or anything like that. Obviously the lower the price the quicker the sale, but I just wanted to give you a sense of the value.
That's about what we expected (with our limited knowledge/understanding). Thanks for confirming!
 

sparty

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Not to rain on the parade here but in addition to the possibility of the account being a NHK account, there is a small possibility it could be a standard membership with 40 year right to use.
 

sue1947

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Not to rain on the parade here but in addition to the possibility of the account being a NHK account, there is a small possibility it could be a standard membership with 40 year right to use.
As stated in the first post, it's Premier so not the mythical (I've never seen one; do they really exist anymore) standard.
 

WManning

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I didn't check the MF chart. Good thinking. Also when you do sell, consider using a transfer service like LTTransfers to handle the paperwork. The cost is around $250-350. Also WM will probably only talk to the people that are listed on the contract so that might be a headache to straighten out.
No need for LT. Worldmark handles all transfer docs. Escrow may be necessary if cost is over a few bucks.
 
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