Need Help With Road Trip - Canada to Arizona Feb/23

[dreamin]

We will be driving from Winnipeg (Central Canada) to Phoenix and have a reservation at the Legacy Resort from Jan 29-Feb 5. I realize the Super Bowl is in Phoenix and the International Gem Show is in Tucson so we’ll likely head west to California and Nevada. We’ve done this drive several times and have been successful in getting last minute accommodation. Normally we would return to Canada by way of Albuquerque and Kansas before heading north. This trip we would like to see Zion National Park. Our plan is to stay in Springdale 3-4 nights, then north on I-15 to Salt Lake City (? overnight but I have read about a chance of poor air quality). We would then head east on I-80 towards Nebraska and north on I-29 to home. We plan to be in Zion around the end of February and are aware that there is no shuttle service. We would just like to do the scenic drive, stop at overlooks and if possible < 1 mile walks.

Our main concern is the drive through the Rockies as we have not done this route before. We are experienced winter drivers on flat land! We are retired and can change our plans according to weather conditions. Another option would be to go back south from Springdale to Flagstaff, then follow our usual route home on I-40. We would like to hear from others who have driven the northern route in winter. We have not been north of Grand Canyon so if there are alternate routes in northern Arizona I am open to suggestions. Our time frame for this road trip is 5-6 weeks. We know it’s a lot of miles but it’s what we have to do living in central Canada!

 

[DaveNV]

I live 90 minutes from Zion NP. What specific information are you looking for?

I-15 is a very busy and well-traveled freeway. It's the closest good road near Zion, and you should have no trouble with it. I am not sure what you mean about poor air quality in Salt Lake City?

Maybe I-15 to Salt Lake City, then east to I-29, then north to Home looks like it would be pretty easily done.

That route through Wyoming has a fair amount of mountains. An alternative might be to stay on I-15 north of Salt Lake to I-90 at Billings, Montana, then east on I-90 to I-29 and head north from there.

Dave

 

[Passepartout]

One glaring thing I spotted in your route planning was the 'Springdale to Flagstaff' segment. That isn't someplace to be in February! It's about the Grand Canyon between the two. And the SLC towards Nebraska isn't a picnic in Winter either. Wyoming ALL lies above 7500 feet and crossing even on I-80 in Winter can be challenging. If they get a storm, authorities simply close gates across the highway until the storm passes.

Advice: The West has a pretty good network of major Interstate highways, but Mother Nature is ALWAYS in charge. Stick to those major highways. Have your vehicle prepared just like you do in the Winter in Winnepeg. Pay attention to the weather advisories. You have plenty of time to adjust your schedules and priorities. There may not be a lot of those ~1 mile scenic hikes this trip. One thing's sure: It won't be crowded.

 

[DaveNV]

One glaring thing I spotted in your route planning was the 'Springdale to Flagstaff' segment. That isn't someplace to be in February! It's about the Grand Canyon between the two.

The mapped route I posted above hadn't considered the Phoenix to Zion route. I agree with you. If it were me, I'd head north from Phoenix to I-40, then west and up Hwy 93 Northbound at Kingman, AZ, then get on I-15 North in Las Vegas. From LV it's an easy 2+ hour drive drive up I-15 to the UT Hwy 9 exit toward Springdale. Easily done.

Dave

 

[PcflEZFlng]

If you return home by way of Billings, you would save 4.5 hours by heading northeast on I-94, connecting with I-29 in Fargo, instead of heading southeast into South Dakota.

 

[dreamin]

Thanks for the quick response, Dave. We’re mainly concerned about high elevation mountain passes with sudden changes in weather and treacherous road conditions (ice, snow, freezing rain). It’s bad enough dealing with these road conditions through the Midwest but mountains add to my anxiety! Is it adequate to just watch the forecast and proceed if no blizzards are predicted? Our goal is the shortest and flattest route through the mountains! We’ve driven through the Canadian Rockies many times in summer but try to avoid them in winter.

On the Utah tourism website they spoke of “weather inversions” where smog and fog get trapped close to ground level causing poor air quality. Apparently this can occur in Salt Lake City. ???

 

[DaveNV]

If you return home by way of Billings, you would save 4.5 hours by heading northeast on I-94, connecting with I-29 I Fargo, instead of heading southeast into South Dakota.

I like that route even better. And it stays out of a lot of mountain areas.

Dave

 

[PcflEZFlng]

@dreamin I was just in the process of responding to you. You are correct. The poor air quality in SLC is often caused by particulates trapped in radiation fog. Cold air at the surface with an inversion above, little to no surface wind. This is common in SLC in the winter.

 

[DaveNV]

Thanks for the quick response, Dave. We’re mainly concerned about high elevation mountain passes with sudden changes in weather and treacherous road conditions (ice, snow, freezing rain). It’s bad enough dealing with these road conditions through the Midwest but mountains add to my anxiety! Is it adequate to just watch the forecast and proceed if no blizzards are predicted? Our goal is the shortest and flattest route through the mountains! We’ve driven through the Canadian Rockies many times in summer but try to avoid them in winter.

On the Utah tourism website they spoke of “weather inversions” where smog and fog get trapped close to ground level causing poor air quality. Apparently this can occur in Salt Lake City. ???

Happy to help. Note the comments others have made. @Passepartout was a long-haul trucker, and I'd listen to him before anybody else, even me. I do think the issue you need to most consider is driving over the Rocky Mountains. The Interstate Highway system is a good one, and there aren't really any treacherous mountain roads to consider too closely, without having alternative options. I-15 Northbound to I-90 is driving up wide valleys with few hills. I-90 east to I-94 to I-29 is also fairly flat after you leave Billings. I-29 northbound to Winnipeg is probably just as flat. There is no snow to worry about if you drive from Phoenix to Kingman, then up to Las Vegas to get to I-15. So the whole thing will be easier to do than you think.

Dave

 

[PcflEZFlng]

@DaveNV +1 for @Passepartout. I have literally driven every major highway all over the western United States, in all seasons, but I'll wager that Jim has done the same, only many many times more so!

 

[Passepartout]

Having trucked around mostly in the West (my company is based in SLC), I might consider staying on I-29 south to I-80 in Nebraska and head West through Denver over the Rockies into Utah. I know it's fairly rural, but just between us kids, this is the route the professional drivers choose. They know it snows, but also that there is equipment to handle it.

Your routing, honestly should be based on getting an accurate weather forecast. Watch the storm tracks and choose somewhere else. If roads become too challenging, stop. Storms pass and you can resume your travels when they do.

 

[DaveNV]

Having trucked around mostly in the West (my company is based in SLC), I might consider staying on I-29 south to I-80 in Nebraska and head West through Denver over the Rockies into Utah. I know it's fairly rural, but just between us kids, this is the route the professional drivers choose. They know it snows, but also that there is equipment to handle it.

Your routing, honestly should be based on getting an accurate weather forecast. Watch the storm tracks and choose somewhere else. If roads become too challenging, stop. Storms pass and you can resume your travels when they do.

I don't think Denver is on I-80. Cheyenne is. Did you mean I-70? And the worst weather I've ever seen was on I-80 near Rock Springs, Wyoming - in April.

Dave

 

[PcflEZFlng]

I-76 branches off of I-80 in western Nebraska, angling southwest toward Denver. Then of course I-70 passes east-west through Denver. I-76 just connects the two.

 

[dreamin]

I sure appreciate all these responses and Passepartout has confirmed my fears. In past trips we have had to stay a step ahead of any incoming blizzards or we have had to stay put until it’s past. We’ve seen speeding cars hit black ice and end up in the oncoming lane on I-29. So safety is a big concern with winter road trips.

To clarify my comment on “Springdale to Flagstaff” I meant that I could return south towards Las Vegas and follow the interstate back to Flagstaff, which would add 7+ hours to our drive home, instead of going north through the mountains. There are highways north of Grand Canyon that would be very scenic in summer

We had hoped to see Zion as we don’t expect to return to this part of the US. Lots to think about!

 

[PcflEZFlng]

If it were me, leaving Zion I would choose I-15 north to I-70, then across to Denver, subject to the weather forecast, like @Passepartout mentioned. As he noted, there is significant commercial traffic on I-70, which also means that route gets a lot of support in terms of equipment, maintenance, and patrol surveillance. I used to live in Denver, and traveled that route frequently to California and back, including in winter.

 

[DaveNV]

To clarify my comment on “Springdale to Flagstaff” I meant that I could return south towards Las Vegas and follow the interstate back to Flagstaff, which would add 7+ hours to our drive home, instead of going north through the mountains. There are highways north of Grand Canyon that would be very scenic in summer

Ok, I think I understand. You're thinking after leaving Springdale you'd need to go down to I-40 and head east, then tie up with I-29 someplace? An alternative would be to take I-15 north to I-70, then east through Denver, take I-76 as @PcflEZFlng mentioned, and catch up with I-29 somewhere east of there.

@PcflEZFlng and I have similar minds, I think.

Dave

 

[DaveNV]

A different idea altogether: How about flying to Phoenix, renting a car, doing your driving around, then up to Zion. When you're done, drive back to Las Vegas, turn in the car, and fly home? Would save you a lot of time and stress, and you'd have a much better time.

Dave

 

[CO skier]

In all seriousness, I was about to post the same thing about taking the Delta or Air Canada Expressway to and from Phoenix (or open jaw out of Las Vegas, but that might significantly increase the rental car rate). It is a guaranteed straight, quick shot well above any blizzards on the Great Plains.

If you are lucky enough to avoid blizzard road closures anywhere on your roadtrip in either direction, north of Cedar City, UT, you should spend all of your time in Las Vegas!

 

[Passepartout]

I don't think Denver is on I-80. Cheyenne is. Did you mean I-70? And the worst weather I've ever seen was on I-80 near Rock Springs, Wyoming - in April.

Dave

Yep, I-76 veers off I-80 near Ogalalla Nebraska and goes to Denver and connects to I-70 to around Moab Utah where you'd head South to Las Vegas (Or Springville for a scenic detour into Zions Park.

 

[DaveNV]

Yep, I-76 veers off I-80 near Ogalalla Nebraska and goes to Denver and connects to I-70 to around Moab Utah where you'd head South to Las Vegas (Or Springville for a scenic detour into Zions Park.

I-70 goes all the way to I-15, well west of Moab. But I take your point.

Dave

 

[Passepartout]

I-70 goes all the way to I-15, well west of Moab. But I take your point.

Dave

I always had that difficulty not being too detailed with student drivers. I told one to take an Interstate to US 30 and when nI woke up he was wandering through the streets of Pocatello Idaho. I yelled 'Where the HE11 are we???!!!' He said I'd told him to get off on US 30. I forgot to mention that we'd cross little snippets of US 30 before I expected him to exit off to Wyoming on US 30. This was before GPS when we used paper maps. They work great, but you have to study them a little before you head out.

I used to have shoe boxes full of paper maps. They outlived their usefulness.

 

[DaveNV]

I always had that difficulty not being too detailed with student drivers. I told one to take an Interstate to US 30 and when nI woke up he was wandering through the streets of Pocatello Idaho. I yelled 'Where the HE11 are we???!!!' He said I'd told him to get off on US 30. I forgot to mention that we'd cross little snippets of US 30 before I expected him to exit off to Wyoming on US 30. This was before GPS when we used paper maps. They work great, but you have to study them a little before you head out.

I used to have shoe boxes full of paper maps. They outlived their usefulness.

It's fine. I knew what you meant. But I'm also glad I wasn't ever a Student Driver with you. LOL!

Dave

 

[Passepartout]

It's fine. I knew what you meant. But I'm also glad I wasn't ever a Student Driver with you. LOL!

Dave

As far as I know, they all were able to safely go forth and make a living at it. You'd have been fine, but I wouldn't have wanted to live 4 feet from you either.

 

[DaveNV]

As far as I know, they all were able to safely go forth and make a living at it. You'd have been fine, but I wouldn't have wanted to live 4 feet from you either.

Yeah, I'm this many electrons away from you, and just look at how we get on... LOL!

Dave

 

[sue1947]

I just want to add to Jim's warning about I-80 through southern WY. It is notorious for wind = blowing snow drifts. It can trick you into thinking it is a better option than I-70 through the mountains, but the latter is better equipped to handle a storm, with options to stop and wait out a storm. Grand Junction has Colorado National Monument, for instance. Or US 40 or 50 might get you around the storm.

But take a close look at the idea of flying into Phoeniz/Tucson/Vegas etc and renting a car. Eliminating the drive to and from might be worth the extra money.