• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Need help separating deed?

SDKath

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2007
Messages
3,076
Reaction score
16
Points
273
I am so mad! I purchased 2 separate every year weeks from Starwood back in the springtime at Vistana. Lo and behold, this week I discover that both weeks were combined on to one deed with a combined purchase price! Both of them are every year 2 bedroom units.

Now I am hearing from them that these deeds cannot be separated and I must sell them together??? Who would want 2 weeks in Orlando if I do try to sell them? Plus what if I want to keep one and upgrade or sell one?? I would think this would be a big headache for me down the road.

Can someone with more experience (and less wrath) than me give me some advice please? I found the deed on the OC Comptroller website and indeed there is only 1 for the 2 units. I was of course never told they would do this.

Thanks always, Katherine
 

Dave H

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
417
Reaction score
3
Points
228
Location
Orlando
I am so mad! I purchased 2 separate every year weeks from Starwood back in the springtime at Vistana. Lo and behold, this week I discover that both weeks were combined on to one deed with a combined purchase price! Both of them are every year 2 bedroom units.

Now I am hearing from them that these deeds cannot be separated and I must sell them together??? Who would want 2 weeks in Orlando if I do try to sell them? Plus what if I want to keep one and upgrade or sell one?? I would think this would be a big headache for me down the road.

Can someone with more experience (and less wrath) than me give me some advice please? I found the deed on the OC Comptroller website and indeed there is only 1 for the 2 units. I was of course never told they would do this.

Thanks always, Katherine

Katherine:

I do not know why they are telling you that you cannot seperate the weeks. We have had deeds come to us where the seller bought 2 weeks, got 1 deed and want to sell one week.

All the closing company has to do is deed the week and unit you are selling, then when a title search is done, the title searcher would see the conveyance of the other week and know you only own 1 week.

Not a big issue that I can see.

Dave
 

gmarine

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,304
Reaction score
17
Points
423
You got an original recorded deed(s) after the purchase, right? Is the info that you saw on the website different than the deed(s) that you were given?
 

GrayFal

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,051
Reaction score
2,102
Points
699
Location
The Hamptons, NY
Resorts Owned
Marriott Bluegreen SVV Morritt's Seaside Former WSJx5
Katherine:

I do not know why they are telling you that you cannot separate the weeks. We have had deeds come to us where the seller bought 2 weeks, got 1 deed and want to sell one week.

All the closing company has to do is deed the week and unit you are selling, then when a title search is done, the title searcher would see the conveyance of the other week and know you only own 1 week.

Not a big issue that I can see.

Dave

My first Marriott purchase was done this way - 1 deed, 2 weeks.
It was not a problem when I sold them - it happened as Dave described.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
16,118
Reaction score
8,066
Points
1,048
Location
Belly-View, WA
With all respect to the previous posters, ...

I think you need to check with a Florida real estate attorney on this. There are often specific procedures that must be followed to split a deed. If there are two real interests that have separate assessors ID numbers combined on a deed it could be straightforward. But if there are not separate assessors ID numbers you almost certainly would have to follow the proscribed procedures for splitting a property and generating new assessor's ID numbers.

Remember that when a county records a deed they do not make any assessment of whether the documents are legally correct. They simply record whatever is given to them. Even though everyone involved might think the deed was split and is acting as if it were split, in legal fact if the split wasn't done as prescribed in law no split will have legally occurred.
 

SDKath

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2007
Messages
3,076
Reaction score
16
Points
273
You got an original recorded deed(s) after the purchase, right? Is the info that you saw on the website different than the deed(s) that you were given?

I don't think I got them yet. This is a relatively recent purchase and I don't remember seeing the deed even come to me. My DVC deeds were bought around the same time and the final paperwork JUST came this week!

Shouldn't Starwood be responsible for the separation of the weeks?

Katherine
 
Last edited:

gmarine

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,304
Reaction score
17
Points
423
I don't think I got them yet. This is a recent purchase and I don't remember seeing the deed even come to me. My DVC deeds were bought around the same time and they JUST came this week! Katherine

Your post said the purchase was in the spring. You should have received your deed(s) a month or so after the purchase was closed. If not you should contact the closing company/developer.

DVC is a Right to Use contract, not deeded.
 

SDKath

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2007
Messages
3,076
Reaction score
16
Points
273
My DVC purchase was in late January and it just came last week! K
 

davidg1

newbie
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Las Vegas
Have your attorney get the deeds separated

That is nonsense of couse you should be able to separate the deeds but that is something your attny may need to do
I am so mad! I purchased 2 separate every year weeks from Starwood back in the springtime at Vistana. Lo and behold, this week I discover that both weeks were combined on to one deed with a combined purchase price! Both of them are every year 2 bedroom units.

Now I am hearing from them that these deeds cannot be separated and I must sell them together??? Who would want 2 weeks in Orlando if I do try to sell them? Plus what if I want to keep one and upgrade or sell one?? I would think this would be a big headache for me down the road.

Can someone with more experience (and less wrath) than me give me some advice please? I found the deed on the OC Comptroller website and indeed there is only 1 for the 2 units. I was of course never told they would do this.

Thanks always, Katherine
 

Carolinian

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,644
Reaction score
936
Points
598
Location
eastern Europe
Is Florida among the small minority of states which has a seperate tax listing for each and every timeshare unit/week? Most states, including North Carolina, have one tax ID number for the entire resort, value it that way, and send the tax bill to the HOA.

But then again, that is one of the reasons that the OP needs an opinion from a Florida attorney. What works or doesn't work in another state is irrelevent. I note that Dave H is from Florida and from prior postings, I beleive he mentioned that his business partner is a licensed attorney in Florida.


With all respect to the previous posters, ...

I think you need to check with a Florida real estate attorney on this. There are often specific procedures that must be followed to split a deed. If there are two real interests that have separate assessors ID numbers combined on a deed it could be straightforward. But if there are not separate assessors ID numbers you almost certainly would have to follow the proscribed procedures for splitting a property and generating new assessor's ID numbers.

Remember that when a county records a deed they do not make any assessment of whether the documents are legally correct. They simply record whatever is given to them. Even though everyone involved might think the deed was split and is acting as if it were split, in legal fact if the split wasn't done as prescribed in law no split will have legally occurred.
 

Dave H

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
417
Reaction score
3
Points
228
Location
Orlando
With all respect to the previous posters, ...

I think you need to check with a Florida real estate attorney on this. There are often specific procedures that must be followed to split a deed. If there are two real interests that have separate assessors ID numbers combined on a deed it could be straightforward. But if there are not separate assessors ID numbers you almost certainly would have to follow the proscribed procedures for splitting a property and generating new assessor's ID numbers.

Remember that when a county records a deed they do not make any assessment of whether the documents are legally correct. They simply record whatever is given to them. Even though everyone involved might think the deed was split and is acting as if it were split, in legal fact if the split wasn't done as prescribed in law no split will have legally occurred.

Steve:

You would be correct if you were splitting a parcel of land. There are certain things from the county side that has to be done. The assessor numbers stay with the resort, actually you are not required in Florida to even show them on the deed as it is a timeshare being sold.

Taking 1 of the 2 weeks and selling them is not the same as a lot spilt. You own 2 seperate weeks, you sell 1 and you have one left.

Dave
 

myip

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
1,578
Reaction score
4
Points
398
Location
Bay Area, CA
Once I brought a timeshare with 2 weeks. I asked for separate deed for each week. The closing company charge me twice because they have to file the paper work twice with the county. I was also told that if both weeks on the same deed, it doesn't matter. When it is time to sell, it can sell individually.
I didn't like the idea of 1 deed with 2 timeshare. I pay extra to have a separate deed.

Maria
 

Talent312

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
17,464
Reaction score
7,277
Points
948
Resorts Owned
HGVC & GTS
It would be helpful to know who the "them" and "they" is that the OP is talking about. If its the resort, there may be some covenant that "they" are referring to, and the owner should pin them down of which one.

But generally, its simply not true that two units listed in a single deed cannot be be sold separately. Folks who buy multiple parcels or lots from a single seller often combine them in a single deed, but that does not tie their hands if and when they decide to sell one of them. Sales of parts of parcels, single lots or units from a "bank" of like property listed in a single deed is done all the time.

Absent some issue with the resort, all the owner needs to do is sign a deed for the unit they want to sell. For clarity, the deed should prob'ly expressly recite that the deed is in fact intended to convey only that unit and not the other unit, just in case anyone thinks that there was omission or mistake.

As far as the tax ID#'s is concerned, when the county's property appraiser sees the split, they'll simply assign a sub-number to the split-off unit, if need be. They see folks sell off parts of parcels all the time and are used to this.
 
Last edited:

Mel

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
1,882
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Connecticut
When I trace our Orange Lake week back through the people we bought from, it was on a two-unit deed, but had at one time been on its own deed. The history of that week might shed some light on the reasons why the resort would deed the two weeks together.

The previous owner had bought 1 week at Orange Lake, listed on its own deed. Then about a year later, it was deeded back to the resort, and subsequently "resold" to this owner as part of a two-week deed. On both of the deeds recorded for the previous owner, the resort also recorded mortgages.

One reason for deeding the weeks together may be an issue of closing costs - as mentioned by someone else, a closing company might charge double, and at a minimum there would be double filing fees.

Another reason might have to do with financing. If you purchase 2 weeks deeded individually, and you default on one of them, the developer can forclose on that week. There could be something in your contract allowing them to forclose on the other week too, but that would be a second forclosures, costing more money. Less paperwork, maybe less cost, and only one lein covering both weeks.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
16,118
Reaction score
8,066
Points
1,048
Location
Belly-View, WA
As far as the tax ID#'s is concerned, when the county's property appraiser sees the split, they'll simply assign a sub-number to the split-off unit, if need be. They see folks sell off parts of parcels all the time and are used to this.

In the areas I am familiar with (mostly in the western US) that is not true. Lot splits are land use decisions that require some form of approval from local agency that regulates local land use and enforces zoning codes.

I suppose a person could file a deed that split a single property - as I mentioned earlier a county recorder will record almost any document presented to them in the proper format and with the proper fee. But if it's an illegal or unapproved split, filing a deed splitting ownership isn't going to split the property, but it will make for a big headache for everyone involved.

+++++

That's why the key to me is whether the properties have separate assessors identification numbers. If they have separate assessors identifications, then the local government already recognizes them as two distinct properties, and you ought to be able to split them with a properly prepared and recorded deed.

But if they are under one assessors identification number, you need to check with the local agency about the procedures to split the property.
 

Talent312

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
17,464
Reaction score
7,277
Points
948
Resorts Owned
HGVC & GTS
In Florida, sure, one cannot subdivide a parcel into multiple lots without getting all sorts of regularory approval... If its a DRI (development of regional impact), God-help you. But if you are simply dividing one into two, as long as they both still meet land-use regulations govening their use... AFAIK, its not an issue.

As someone said, if there is a mortgage which covers both units, the owner would, of course, have to ask the mortgage-holder for a release on the one they wish to sell, but developers do this all the time, often using the proceeds of the sale to fund the bank's price for the release.
 

Dave H

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
417
Reaction score
3
Points
228
Location
Orlando
Talent is right. As long as the use is staying the same, it is not an issue. The biggest reason from a closing company side is if I have 2 weeks being sold, I would have 2 closing files, one for each week. That would result in a minimum of 2 recording fees, and I hate to say it, should have 2 closing fees as I would have to send out double the paperwork to be signed. Remember, each closing file has to have it's own settlement statements, 1099 forms etc.

If the seller is selling both to 1 person and we can take each week, does not matter if they were on the same deed before and combined them into 1 deed, then 1 closing file, 1 set of documents, 1 set of recording fees, etc.

I can tell you with almost 100% accuracy, if the developer is paying the costs of recording and you have a client buying 2 weeks, it will be on 1 deed. They will not part with another recording fee to record it. We are lucky here in Florida, our recording fees are small. Try recording in Mass, where every document being recorded is either $75 or $125 to record. The less I payout, the more I get to keep.... sounds to me like sound business practice.

And yes, if both weeks are secured by a mortgage of some kind then a partial release has to be recorded to take the mortgage off that week. That would have to come from the lender and do not forget, not every financier uses mortgages, some just hold what amounts to a personal note, therefore, you will not find them in public records.
 
Last edited:

Bill4728

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
11,038
Reaction score
598
Points
899
Location
Lake Tapps, WA
The fact that these were two annual weeks may make it easier to split. If these were 2 EOY weeks which had been recorded as a single week. THAT could be a real problem because most of the time you can't seperate a single week into 2 eoy weeks without great difficulty.

Good Luck Kathy
 
Top