Need help separating deed?

[SDKath]

I am so mad! I purchased 2 separate every year weeks from Starwood back in the springtime at Vistana. Lo and behold, this week I discover that both weeks were combined on to one deed with a combined purchase price! Both of them are every year 2 bedroom units.

Now I am hearing from them that these deeds cannot be separated and I must sell them together??? Who would want 2 weeks in Orlando if I do try to sell them? Plus what if I want to keep one and upgrade or sell one?? I would think this would be a big headache for me down the road.

Can someone with more experience (and less wrath) than me give me some advice please? I found the deed on the OC Comptroller website and indeed there is only 1 for the 2 units. I was of course never told they would do this.

Thanks always, Katherine

 

[Dave H]

I am so mad! I purchased 2 separate every year weeks from Starwood back in the springtime at Vistana. Lo and behold, this week I discover that both weeks were combined on to one deed with a combined purchase price! Both of them are every year 2 bedroom units.

Now I am hearing from them that these deeds cannot be separated and I must sell them together??? Who would want 2 weeks in Orlando if I do try to sell them? Plus what if I want to keep one and upgrade or sell one?? I would think this would be a big headache for me down the road.

Can someone with more experience (and less wrath) than me give me some advice please? I found the deed on the OC Comptroller website and indeed there is only 1 for the 2 units. I was of course never told they would do this.

Thanks always, Katherine

Katherine:

I do not know why they are telling you that you cannot seperate the weeks. We have had deeds come to us where the seller bought 2 weeks, got 1 deed and want to sell one week.

All the closing company has to do is deed the week and unit you are selling, then when a title search is done, the title searcher would see the conveyance of the other week and know you only own 1 week.

Not a big issue that I can see.

Dave

 

[gmarine]

You got an original recorded deed(s) after the purchase, right? Is the info that you saw on the website different than the deed(s) that you were given?

 

[GrayFal]

Katherine:

I do not know why they are telling you that you cannot separate the weeks. We have had deeds come to us where the seller bought 2 weeks, got 1 deed and want to sell one week.

All the closing company has to do is deed the week and unit you are selling, then when a title search is done, the title searcher would see the conveyance of the other week and know you only own 1 week.
Not a big issue that I can see.

Dave

My first Marriott purchase was done this way - 1 deed, 2 weeks.
It was not a problem when I sold them - it happened as Dave described.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

With all respect to the previous posters, ...

I think you need to check with a Florida real estate attorney on this. There are often specific procedures that must be followed to split a deed. If there are two real interests that have separate assessors ID numbers combined on a deed it could be straightforward. But if there are not separate assessors ID numbers you almost certainly would have to follow the proscribed procedures for splitting a property and generating new assessor's ID numbers.

Remember that when a county records a deed they do not make any assessment of whether the documents are legally correct. They simply record whatever is given to them. Even though everyone involved might think the deed was split and is acting as if it were split, in legal fact if the split wasn't done as prescribed in law no split will have legally occurred.

 

[SDKath]

You got an original recorded deed(s) after the purchase, right? Is the info that you saw on the website different than the deed(s) that you were given?

I don't think I got them yet. This is a relatively recent purchase and I don't remember seeing the deed even come to me. My DVC deeds were bought around the same time and the final paperwork JUST came this week!

Shouldn't Starwood be responsible for the separation of the weeks?

Katherine

 

[gmarine]

I don't think I got them yet. This is a recent purchase and I don't remember seeing the deed even come to me. My DVC deeds were bought around the same time and they JUST came this week! Katherine

Your post said the purchase was in the spring. You should have received your deed(s) a month or so after the purchase was closed. If not you should contact the closing company/developer.

DVC is a Right to Use contract, not deeded.

 

[SDKath]

My DVC purchase was in late January and it just came last week! K

 

[davidg1]

Have your attorney get the deeds separated

That is nonsense of couse you should be able to separate the deeds but that is something your attny may need to do

I am so mad! I purchased 2 separate every year weeks from Starwood back in the springtime at Vistana. Lo and behold, this week I discover that both weeks were combined on to one deed with a combined purchase price! Both of them are every year 2 bedroom units.

Now I am hearing from them that these deeds cannot be separated and I must sell them together??? Who would want 2 weeks in Orlando if I do try to sell them? Plus what if I want to keep one and upgrade or sell one?? I would think this would be a big headache for me down the road.

Can someone with more experience (and less wrath) than me give me some advice please? I found the deed on the OC Comptroller website and indeed there is only 1 for the 2 units. I was of course never told they would do this.

Thanks always, Katherine

 

[Carolinian]

Is Florida among the small minority of states which has a seperate tax listing for each and every timeshare unit/week? Most states, including North Carolina, have one tax ID number for the entire resort, value it that way, and send the tax bill to the HOA.

But then again, that is one of the reasons that the OP needs an opinion from a Florida attorney. What works or doesn't work in another state is irrelevent. I note that Dave H is from Florida and from prior postings, I beleive he mentioned that his business partner is a licensed attorney in Florida.

With all respect to the previous posters, ...

I think you need to check with a Florida real estate attorney on this. There are often specific procedures that must be followed to split a deed. If there are two real interests that have separate assessors ID numbers combined on a deed it could be straightforward. But if there are not separate assessors ID numbers you almost certainly would have to follow the proscribed procedures for splitting a property and generating new assessor's ID numbers.

Remember that when a county records a deed they do not make any assessment of whether the documents are legally correct. They simply record whatever is given to them. Even though everyone involved might think the deed was split and is acting as if it were split, in legal fact if the split wasn't done as prescribed in law no split will have legally occurred.

 

[Dave H]

With all respect to the previous posters, ...

I think you need to check with a Florida real estate attorney on this. There are often specific procedures that must be followed to split a deed. If there are two real interests that have separate assessors ID numbers combined on a deed it could be straightforward. But if there are not separate assessors ID numbers you almost certainly would have to follow the proscribed procedures for splitting a property and generating new assessor's ID numbers.

Remember that when a county records a deed they do not make any assessment of whether the documents are legally correct. They simply record whatever is given to them. Even though everyone involved might think the deed was split and is acting as if it were split, in legal fact if the split wasn't done as prescribed in law no split will have legally occurred.

Steve:

You would be correct if you were splitting a parcel of land. There are certain things from the county side that has to be done. The assessor numbers stay with the resort, actually you are not required in Florida to even show them on the deed as it is a timeshare being sold.

Taking 1 of the 2 weeks and selling them is not the same as a lot spilt. You own 2 seperate weeks, you sell 1 and you have one left.

Dave

 

[myip]

Once I brought a timeshare with 2 weeks. I asked for separate deed for each week. The closing company charge me twice because they have to file the paper work twice with the county. I was also told that if both weeks on the same deed, it doesn't matter. When it is time to sell, it can sell individually.
I didn't like the idea of 1 deed with 2 timeshare. I pay extra to have a separate deed.

Maria

 

[Talent312]

It would be helpful to know who the "them" and "they" is that the OP is talking about. If its the resort, there may be some covenant that "they" are referring to, and the owner should pin them down of which one.

But generally, its simply not true that two units listed in a single deed cannot be be sold separately. Folks who buy multiple parcels or lots from a single seller often combine them in a single deed, but that does not tie their hands if and when they decide to sell one of them. Sales of parts of parcels, single lots or units from a "bank" of like property listed in a single deed is done all the time.

Absent some issue with the resort, all the owner needs to do is sign a deed for the unit they want to sell. For clarity, the deed should prob'ly expressly recite that the deed is in fact intended to convey only that unit and not the other unit, just in case anyone thinks that there was omission or mistake.

As far as the tax ID#'s is concerned, when the county's property appraiser sees the split, they'll simply assign a sub-number to the split-off unit, if need be. They see folks sell off parts of parcels all the time and are used to this.

 

[Mel]

When I trace our Orange Lake week back through the people we bought from, it was on a two-unit deed, but had at one time been on its own deed. The history of that week might shed some light on the reasons why the resort would deed the two weeks together.

The previous owner had bought 1 week at Orange Lake, listed on its own deed. Then about a year later, it was deeded back to the resort, and subsequently "resold" to this owner as part of a two-week deed. On both of the deeds recorded for the previous owner, the resort also recorded mortgages.

One reason for deeding the weeks together may be an issue of closing costs - as mentioned by someone else, a closing company might charge double, and at a minimum there would be double filing fees.

Another reason might have to do with financing. If you purchase 2 weeks deeded individually, and you default on one of them, the developer can forclose on that week. There could be something in your contract allowing them to forclose on the other week too, but that would be a second forclosures, costing more money. Less paperwork, maybe less cost, and only one lein covering both weeks.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

As far as the tax ID#'s is concerned, when the county's property appraiser sees the split, they'll simply assign a sub-number to the split-off unit, if need be. They see folks sell off parts of parcels all the time and are used to this.

In the areas I am familiar with (mostly in the western US) that is not true. Lot splits are land use decisions that require some form of approval from local agency that regulates local land use and enforces zoning codes.

I suppose a person could file a deed that split a single property - as I mentioned earlier a county recorder will record almost any document presented to them in the proper format and with the proper fee. But if it's an illegal or unapproved split, filing a deed splitting ownership isn't going to split the property, but it will make for a big headache for everyone involved.

+++++

That's why the key to me is whether the properties have separate assessors identification numbers. If they have separate assessors identifications, then the local government already recognizes them as two distinct properties, and you ought to be able to split them with a properly prepared and recorded deed.

But if they are under one assessors identification number, you need to check with the local agency about the procedures to split the property.

 

[Talent312]

In Florida, sure, one cannot subdivide a parcel into multiple lots without getting all sorts of regularory approval... If its a DRI (development of regional impact), God-help you. But if you are simply dividing one into two, as long as they both still meet land-use regulations govening their use... AFAIK, its not an issue.

As someone said, if there is a mortgage which covers both units, the owner would, of course, have to ask the mortgage-holder for a release on the one they wish to sell, but developers do this all the time, often using the proceeds of the sale to fund the bank's price for the release.

 

[Dave H]

Talent is right. As long as the use is staying the same, it is not an issue. The biggest reason from a closing company side is if I have 2 weeks being sold, I would have 2 closing files, one for each week. That would result in a minimum of 2 recording fees, and I hate to say it, should have 2 closing fees as I would have to send out double the paperwork to be signed. Remember, each closing file has to have it's own settlement statements, 1099 forms etc.

If the seller is selling both to 1 person and we can take each week, does not matter if they were on the same deed before and combined them into 1 deed, then 1 closing file, 1 set of documents, 1 set of recording fees, etc.

I can tell you with almost 100% accuracy, if the developer is paying the costs of recording and you have a client buying 2 weeks, it will be on 1 deed. They will not part with another recording fee to record it. We are lucky here in Florida, our recording fees are small. Try recording in Mass, where every document being recorded is either $75 or $125 to record. The less I payout, the more I get to keep.... sounds to me like sound business practice.

And yes, if both weeks are secured by a mortgage of some kind then a partial release has to be recorded to take the mortgage off that week. That would have to come from the lender and do not forget, not every financier uses mortgages, some just hold what amounts to a personal note, therefore, you will not find them in public records.

 

[Bill4728]

The fact that these were two annual weeks may make it easier to split. If these were 2 EOY weeks which had been recorded as a single week. THAT could be a real problem because most of the time you can't seperate a single week into 2 eoy weeks without great difficulty.

Good Luck Kathy