Need assistance planning a visit to Italy

[DaveNV]

When you buy at the ba.com site for LAS-VEN (for instance) it should offer you the choice of a stopover, and then you choose what day you want to continue your journey, etc. You would pickup your bags in London. I believe a multi-city itinerary would accomplish the same thing. Just be sure to look at ba.com.

I'm on a similar flight on BA in October to Berlin with a few days in London en route. I've done this a few times. Other airlines offer similar options, such as TAP Portugal in Lisbon, etc.

Great to know. Thanks! We'll have to look into this.

Dave

 

[WinniWoman]

Thanks, @amycurl. Great advice! This will be a fun and interesting trip, and the planning is exciting for me. Since we sold our last timeshare last year, and just completed a trip to Molokai (Hi @slip!) to use our last exchange, this Italy thing is totally out-of-pocket. I have no hotel points to burn. In this thread I've learned the names of a couple of nice hotels near train stations in the cities we'll be visiting, and I think that'll be where we'll focus on staying. If we're sleeping near the trains it will be easier to get around, I think, at least between cities. And shorter distances to drag our suitcases.

The walking thing isn't a deal-breaker, but it's a factor to deal with. Jeff has neuropathy in his feet, and also degenerative disc disease in his back. That limits his ability to come and go at will, and he does need to sit down periodically to take a break. So planned tours with transportation are appealing, since he can enjoy the scenery without having to walk all that way. In cities like Venice, he'll just have to deal with it, since there isn't any way to avoid the stairs and such. That's one reason we decided to start there, fresh from a relaxing (HAHA!) plane flight from the USA. If he paces himself, punctuated by train rides between cities and staying close to train stations, he'll manage, and we'll be fine. Then we get on the cruise ship for a week, and he can relax between shore excursions. We end in Athens, where we're planning to spend an extra day or two to see things, and then we're back on a plane for the trip home. All in, things should be manageable, if we take it easy. Another reason not to try for twelve cities in seven days.

Dave

I can so relate to your husband. Though I don’t have diabetes, my spine surgery has left me with intermittent nerve pain in my feet, as well as my opposite lumbar area.

This said, I’m going for our Italy trip next year. It’s now or never.

 

[DaveNV]

Our bucket list trip to Italy is finally starting to take shape!

Current status: Airline tickets have been purchased. We're flying British Airways, nonstop Las Vegas to and from London, then connector flights London to Venice, returning from Athens to London. Premium Economy outbound, Business Class return. This was not inexpensive, but provides us the best options to accommodate my husband's health issues. Layovers are reasonable at Heathrow in both directions, and flight times are ~average for the distance.

We'll be flying direct, Las Vegas to Venice, and staying four nights. (We arrive pretty late evening the first day, so we'll have three full days to explore things.)
High Speed morning train to Florence, staying four nights. (This gives us 3.5 days there, allowing time for a day trip to Pisa.)
High Speed morning train to Rome, staying three nights. (Enough time to catch the highlights.)
Train to Civitavecchia, arriving in time to board the cruise ship.
Seven-day cruise port-hopping, Italy and Greece. (Naples, Mykonos, Kusadasi, and Santorini, ending in Athens.)
Disembark in Athens early morning, spending two nights. (Gives the bulk of two days to catch the high points in Athens.)
Fly home, Athens to Las Vegas.

By the numbers, we'll be gone the better part of 23 days. There is time enough in each city to relax a bit, if we pace ourselves, but still be able to see the highlights. And it won't be total chaos and rushing around, trying to see and do too much. We hope...

I'm seeking recommendations for air-conditioned hotels in Venice, Florence, Rome, and Athens. We prefer at least 3 stars, with reasonable locations close to train transportation. (e.g. Near Saint Lucia train station in Venice, etc.) There are so many options, it's hard to decide which to book.

Also seeking recommendations for Tour Guides/Companies in those four cities. We're doing our research, but are interested in having someone show us around, help with entrance tickets to things, and generally make it a more smooth experience.

Thanks in advance for your help. After all this time, it's exciting to finally be able to pin things down.

Dave

 

[clifffaith]

@DaveNV How do you handle care for the fur children when you are gone? Do you have someone come in a couple times a day? When we were taking multi-week trips it was so nice to have our housekeeper staying with the kitty kids, and then coming home to a clean house!

 

[DaveNV]

@DaveNV How do you handle care for the fur children when you are gone? Do you have someone come in a couple times a day? When we were taking multi-week trips it was so nice to have our housekeeper staying with the kitty kids, and then coming home to a clean house!

We have a pet sitter who comes in four times a day. She's great! Ideally, I'd prefer having someone sleep here, but the dogs are used to sleeping in their crates, and the cat doesn't care. Somebody sleeping here would only be helpful if the dogs were roaming the house. They've slept in crates since they were puppies, and they're used to it. (Cody is now ten, Kona will be nine in the Spring, and Kai the cat will be eight - they're all used to the routine.) Our pet sitter puts the dogs to bed in their crates, and then she leaves for the night. It wouldn't matter at that point whether anyone was sleeping here. Our security alarm and nosy neighbors take care of the rest.

Dave

 

[DaveNV]

Things are coming together nicely. Thanks to the great suggestions received by private message, I now have hotel reservations in place for Venice, Florence, Rome, and Athens. It's too soon to book train tickets, but I'm working on making good choices there.

Regarding train travel in Italy: How is luggage handled? Is there storage above or under the seats? Any secure storage options? I've heard about bags being stolen. ?

Dave

 

[Glynda]

Things are coming together nicely. Thanks to the great suggestions received by private message, I now have hotel reservations in place for Venice, Florence, Rome, and Athens. It's too soon to book train tickets, but I'm working on making good choices there.

Regarding train travel in Italy: How is luggage handled? Is there storage above or under the seats? Any secure storage options? I've heard about bags being stolen. ?

Dave

This is the ultimate guide to everything train in Italy. Seat 61
From it:

Luggage on trains in Italy​

• Luggage is no problem on Italian trains, and it makes no real difference whether you go 1st or 2nd class, there's always room for bags. You don't check your bags in and there is no baggage car. You simply take whatever you like into the train with you, and stick your bags on the racks above your head or on the big luggage racks at the end of each car or in the space between the seat backs, wherever. On regional trains, it just goes on the floor next to you if there aren't any racks. More information about luggage on European trains.
• There are no baggage fees or weight limits to worry about, for most practical purposes if you can carry it you can bring it. It's so simple, it hardly needs explaining, yet overseas visitors (especially Americans, it seems) chase their tails trying to find detailed information as they think there must be complex regulations as with air travel. Don't over-think it, as luggage really doesn't need worrying about, other than not travelling with more than you really need. Anything up to backpack-sized fits on the racks above your head, only larger items such as bulky suitcases need to go on the racks at the end of the car, or between seat backs.
• Security is not a real problem, your bags full of clothing are no more likely to be stolen than airline checked baggage. There's no need to chain your bag to the rack - this gets asked, believe it or not - any more than you'd chain you bags to a plane's luggage bin. Although like most people I like to use a rack which I can see from my seat, and indeed I always keep cameras, passports and so forth in my daypack with me at my seat. But I'd have thought that was obvious?
• Porters are generally a thing of the past in Europe along with butlers, valets and ladies' maids. However, Milan Centrale, Milan Porta Garibaldi, Venice Santa Lucia, Rome Termini, Florence SMN, Turin Porta Nuova are all termini with level access to all trains. You can just pull your bag on its wheels from street or taxi rank across the station concourse right up to the train door, lift it two steps up into the train, and wheel it to a convenient rack or space between the seats next to your seat. If you are elderly or heavily pregnant, another passenger will almost always help you get your bags the two short steps into the train.
• Luggage storage at stations: All main Italian stations including Turin Porta Nuova, Milan Centrale, Verona Porta Nuova, Venice Santa Lucia, Florence SMN, Rome Stazione Termini & Naples Centrale have left-luggage facilities, either lockers or a staffed facility. Information on left-luggage prices & opening times.

 

[Glynda]

We bought no tickets ahead of time. As we were trying to buy our ticket from the machine in Milan, a young man stepped up to the machine and started pushing buttons. We protested; he continued. This was not out of the goodness of his heart. He did not work there, he wanted a tip. Actually, it was helpful as that was our first experience.

On our next pass through Milan we bought our tickets successfully at the ticket machine but two young men very quickly snatched our suitcases and started quickly walking away with them and waved us to follow. We protested but they were fast and determined. They even wore what resembled a uniform. We could barely catch up with them and kept protesting. They keep going. When they got to our car they put the bags up on the platform of the train (again helpful as the trains are rather high up) and then started holding out their hands and loudly demanding a tip. My husband gave the lead guy $5.00. But he wasn't happy yelling and the dramatics were embarrassing. My husband isn't easily intimidated so we boarded and left them yelling outside at us.

 

[DaveNV]

Thank you, Glynda! This is great information. I think part of the problem with over-researching things is the paranoia caused by rampant dire warnings about pickpockets and thieves being *everywhere* you turn. Even Rick Steves goes on in detail about expecting to have things stolen. It leaves a person wondering how safe things are, and tends to make you suspicious of everyone around you. Obviously, you want to be safe and smart, and take precautions, but there is a point where you have to trust the systems in place to get the job done.

Dave

 

[TheHolleys87]

We bought no tickets ahead of time. As we were trying to buy our ticket from the machine in Milan, a young man stepped up to the machine and started pushing buttons. We protested; he continued. This was not out of the goodness of his heart. He did not work there, he wanted a tip. Actually, it was helpful as that was our first experience.

On our next pass through Milan we bought our tickets successfully at the ticket machine but two young men very quickly snatched our suitcases and started quickly walking away with them and waved us to follow. We protested but they were fast and determined. They even wore what resembled a uniform. We could barely catch up with them and kept protesting. They keep going. When they got to our car they put the bags up on the platform of the train (again helpful as the trains are rather high up) and then started holding out their hands and loudly demanding a tip. My husband gave the lead guy $5.00. But he wasn't happy yelling and the dramatics were embarrassing. My husband isn't easily intimidated so we boarded and left them yelling outside at us.

Anyone see the recent movie Book Club: The Next Chapter? That exact thing happens to the ladies, except that the young men in uniform disappear completely with the luggage, with of course significant influence on the plot.

 

[Glynda]

Thank you, Glynda! This is great information. I think part of the problem with over-researching things is the paranoia caused by rampant dire warnings about pickpockets and thieves being *everywhere* you turn. Even Rick Steves goes on in detail about expecting to have things stolen. It leaves a person wondering how safe things are, and tends to make you suspicious of everyone around you. Obviously, you want to be safe and smart, and take precautions, but there is a point where you have to trust the systems in place to get the job done.

Dave

I've never felt unsafe in Italy, Dave.(The only time I've ever been pickpocketed was in Washington, DC at a major hotel.) That said, on the Facebook group, Italy Travel Planning, I often read of people who, at the time of my reading, were in Italy and had a bag, wallets, passport stolen while in a crowded situation We always try to do the smart thing and keep our bags on us or beside us with our hands on them. The day the guys took the roll aboards, I had my satchel over my shoulder and was standing right over the roll aboards as hubby operated the ticket machine.Those guys were practiced and fast! Swoosh and they were gone! Somehow I knew that they weren't stealing them. The lead guy waved for us to follow. Perhaps the first experience prepared me also. Thus my telling of it for others now.

I have to give these guys a bit of credit though. They were immigrants who I assume did not have a work visa but came up with a way to make money and actually, for us, as annoying as the attempt was, in the end it was a help.

 

[ScoopKona]

That said, On the Facebook group, Italy Travel Planning, I often read of people who, at the time of my reading, were in Italy and had a bag, wallets, passport stolen while in a crowded situation

Twice in my life I have caught someone with their hand in my pocket. Both times were in Italy. Barcelona is also rife with pickpockets.

It's an easy thing to thwart. Choosing proper clothing makes pickpockets a non issue.

 

[vacationtime1]

Twice in my life I have caught someone with their hand in my pocket. Both times were in Italy. Barcelona is also rife with pickpockets.

It's an easy thing to thwart. Choosing proper clothing makes pickpockets a non issue.

Agree -- unless you carry a purse.

 

[Glynda]

I have to take issue with some of this from Seat 61:

• "Porters are generally a thing of the past in Europe along with butlers, valets and ladies' maids. However, Milan Centrale, Milan Porta Garibaldi, Venice Santa Lucia, Rome Termini, Florence SMN, Turin Porta Nuova are all termini with level access to all trains. You can just pull your bag on its wheels from street or taxi rank across the station concourse right up to the train door, lift it two steps up into the train, and wheel it to a convenient rack or space between the seats next to your seat. If you are elderly or heavily pregnant, another passenger will almost always help you get your bags the two short steps into the train."

I would not be able to travel about Italy via train with carry-on luggage again due to my age, height (5'4") and knee problems and lack of upper body strength. I don't recall a single Italian train that I was able to take a reasonable step directly from the train platform into the train! Even on the Orient Express, out of the Venice station, the distance between the three steps was too far for my short legs to reach without dragging myself up using the vertical handrail on the side of the train door.

Some trains are narrower than others and are further away from the station platform than others. In that case, I would have to step down, or actually sit on the train platform and slide down to the ground; step over to the train, raise my luggage over my shoulders and onto the train platform. Then I would have to climb the ladder like steps again using the vertical handrail to pull myself up with. And there were actually some so high that I had to pull up with handrail until I could get my knees on the first step or the floor of the train and then try to get up from my knees. Awkward and embarrassing.

The trains don't dally around in Italy. We were always early to the station. However, changes of platform can be frequent and you don't always know what platform to be at until the train is actually listed on the board or announced. And you don't want to stamp your ticket too soon on the platform until you are sure you are going to get on as some tickets have time limits. So hubby didn't have time to load my luggage on for me and then his own.

I had a couple of gracious young men help me carry my luggage up and down the stairs of small stations to get to the right platform as most small stations don't have elevators. But I never had anyone help me actually board a train. On one occasion, we boarded a train to Milan along with an obviously elderly and disabled woman with a cane. We had to stand for 40 minutes as the car was full of young teens and their teachers on a field trip. Not one got up to let even the disabled woman sit. The other cars were full also. The only other place I've experienced that was China.

 

[Glynda]

Twice in my life I have caught someone with their hand in my pocket. Both times were in Italy. Barcelona is also rife with pickpockets.

It's an easy thing to thwart. Choosing proper clothing makes pickpockets a non issue.

My husband was surrounded by four young Gypsy girls who stuck a newspaper in front of his face as if to sell it to him while two others were behind him trying to remove his wallet from his back pocket. He thwarted them. Now he wears a money belt under his shirt or in a front zippered pocket. If I carry a purse, it's a cross shoulder bag with a strap that can't be cut easily. I also hold on to it in the front with one hand in crowded situation.

 

[ScoopKona]

Agree -- unless you carry a purse.

Although I'm from Key West, I never really got into the whole "drag" thing. I had many friends there who would pull it off. But I'd never make it as a drag queen.

Purses are a bad idea. Women's clothing which lacks pockets is an even worse idea. I'll never understand why women put up with that, or the "pink tax." If they voted with their wallets, both things would disappear almost immediately. My wife never succumbed to the pink tax. And I finally got her to quit buying clothing which lacks pockets. We both look like we're on our way to a safari when we head out. But it's better than being a target. And if an otherwise-suitable piece of clothing lacks a zipper, velcro, or both, I will sew it in.

We see other people accosted by the Roma ("gypsy" is an offensive term which needs to be retired). They don't generally bother us. Step #1 is having a thimbleful of situational awareness. I've had to shake my head at them occasionally. The "you really don't want to try me" look.

 

[WinniWoman]

Twice in my life I have caught someone with their hand in my pocket. Both times were in Italy. Barcelona is also rife with pickpockets.

It's an easy thing to thwart. Choosing proper clothing makes pickpockets a non issue.

We used one of those belt type thingies under our pants/underwear when we were in Scotland. Kept the wallet portion up front.

 

[vacationtime1]

Although I'm from Key West, I never really got into the whole "drag" thing. I had many friends there who would pull it off. But I'd never make it as a drag queen.

Purses are a bad idea. Women's clothing which lacks pockets is an even worse idea. I'll never understand why women put up with that, or the "pink tax." If they voted with their wallets, both things would disappear almost immediately. My wife never succumbed to the pink tax. And I finally got her to quit buying clothing which lacks pockets. We both look like we're on our way to a safari when we head out. But it's better than being a target. And if an otherwise-suitable piece of clothing lacks a zipper, velcro, or both, I will sew it in.

We see other people accosted by the Roma ("gypsy" is an offensive term which needs to be retired). They don't generally bother us. Step #1 is having a thimbleful of situational awareness. I've had to shake my head at them occasionally. The "you really don't want to try me" look.

lol. I meant ladies' purses of course. (You can't get Key West out of you, can you?)

And yes, purses are a target. I have heard of cases where someone cruises by on a moped, cuts the purse's leather strap around her shoulder, and rides away with the purse.

 

[ScoopKona]

lol. I meant ladies' purses of course. (You can't get Key West out of you, can you?)

And yes, purses are a target. I have heard of cases where someone cruises by on a moped, cuts the purse's leather strap around her shoulder, and rides away with the purse.

People refuse to adapt. That's the big-picture problem. For someone who isn't a big fan of Rick Steves, I agree with him on a great deal. "Travel is a political act."

Absolutely it is. He's written a great deal on this subject. And it's all solid advice -- get out of your comfort zone, go to the more difficult places, have a thimbleful of situational awareness, know the local news. Most tourists have no interest in any of this. Which is why tourists have tourism horror stories -- they should have taken the extra time and effort to be travelers instead.

 

[4TimeAway]

Agree -- unless you carry a purse.

They cut the strap and run.

 

[4TimeAway]

People refuse to adapt. That's the big-picture problem. For someone who isn't a big fan of Rick Steves, I agree with him on a great deal. "Travel is a political act."

Absolutely it is. He's written a great deal on this subject. And it's all solid advice -- get out of your comfort zone, go to the more difficult places, have a thimbleful of situational awareness, know the local news. Most tourists have no interest in any of this. Which is why tourists have tourism horror stories -- they should have taken the extra time and effort to be travelers instead.

Plane from the Azores was delayed. Air-BNB was in a bad part of town. Got off the subway at 1 or 2 am, Security ushered us out.

Walked to the area. Got to a point and decided... NOPE....

Walked back to the Taxi, he drove us to a zone that was uninhabitable,.


Slow thinking... Where to go???



Brain Blanked.... Holiday Inn... Was perfect and cheaper than the Air-BNB.

 

[Luvtoride]

Also seeking recommendations for Tour Guides/Companies in those four cities. We're doing our research, but are interested in having someone show us around, help with entrance tickets to things, and generally make it a more smooth experience.

Dave, sounds like an awesome trip and you are covering all the bases in planning.

We were in Italy last October and found terrific tour guides in Venice and Rome. I’d be happy to share their contact information with you if you DM me.

Our Venice guide is on Instagram using @secretvenicetours Her name is Lucrezia and she was excellent. Besides sharing her extensive knowledge of the city she arranged a private water taxi tour for us.

In Rome we used Maria Grace, who is a certified Vatican tour guide. We spent parts of 2 days with her exploring the Roman Ruins, Colosseum and the Vatican.

Both had zoom calls with us prior to our trip so we could customize the tours to see exactly what we wanted (and needed a guide) to cover.


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