need advice. PLEASE

[nydvc]

I prviously talked about signing a quarter share agreement with Hope Lake Lodge in upstate NY. The recind period is over, and we have contacted a lawyer. the most likely outcome would be for me to lose 10 % (3000 dollars) if I get out of the deal.

So with that in mind. Is it still clear that resale would still be a better deal and I should get out? Its a new resort so I have no idea of how good a trader it will be. i WOULD WANT IT MOSTLY FOR TRADING. Its a nice place and we will get 4 weeks per year. There are some special deals with the new contract, but nothing worth a hugh amount.

I am stuggleing with the decision. Is it ALWAYS better to buy resale after the fact. So for me getting out now and buying a year after it opens will provide a better deal? I hate these decisions.


Also, this is a quartershare, can I consider it equal to a timeshare in most respects.

 

[x3 skier]

Also, this is a quartershare, can I consider it equal to a timeshare in most respects.

Not sure how a quarter share is only 4 weeks a year. Mine is 12 weeks a year and it is clearly a time share for all intents and purposes.

Only you can determine whether to get out or not. I would never buy a high priced property just to trade. You can get much better financial deals on resales of lots of places if all you want is a trader. If that is your objective, then take your loses and buy something someplace else.

Cheers

 

[wackymother]

Has Hope Lake Lodge opened? Wasn't the opening delayed? If the opening is delayed, that might be a way for you to get out of your contract if you want to.

I don't know what to tell you about quartershares vs. timeshares. But I just want to point out that, at any resort, it takes time for a resale market to develop--usually more than a year, I would say. Think about it--people buy a new timeshare unit, and then they use it for a few years before their family circumstances change and they want to sell. You need a bunch of people wanting out before the prices really drop. A year from now, when the resort has opened (hopefully), very few people will already be willing to sell.

 

[nydvc]

Not sure how a quarter share is only 4 weeks a year. Mine is 12 weeks a year and it is clearly a time share for all intents and purposes.

Only you can determine whether to get out or not. I would never buy a high priced property just to trade. You can get much better financial deals on resales of lots of places if all you want is a trader. If that is your objective, then take your loses and buy something someplace else.

Cheers

you are correct, a quarter share is 12 weeks, I am in with 2 friends. did not want to muddy the water explaining that.

 

[nydvc]

Has Hope Lake Lodge opened? Wasn't the opening delayed? If the opening is delayed, that might be a way for you to get out of your contract if you want to.

I don't know what to tell you about quartershares vs. timeshares. But I just want to point out that, at any resort, it takes time for a resale market to develop--usually more than a year, I would say. Think about it--people buy a new timeshare unit, and then they use it for a few years before their family circumstances change and they want to sell. You need a bunch of people wanting out before the prices really drop. A year from now, when the resort has opened (hopefully), very few people will already be willing to sell.

thanks good point. I am in not rush to buy in a year though. just thinking of the overall value of the retail cost. and yes hope lake lodge is delayed over a year and lawyer can negotiate. worst case would be the 3K. I am not stuck on hope lake lodge, looking for mostly trading.

any thoughts on hope lake lodge being a good trader?. Your the first person I talk to who even knew about hope lake?

 

[x3 skier]

My 1/4 share in Steamboat Springs is going for about twice what I paid for it 7 years ago. This is from actual recorded sales at the County Recorders office. After about 5 years (2-3 years ago), they auctioned off the remaining inventory for an average about 1/2 of the original developer's pricing. Since then, resales have been steady at 50%-100% above original pricing. How long that holds up, who knows.

Cheers

 

[theo]

I am not stuck on hope lake lodge, looking for mostly trading.....any thoughts on hope lake lodge being a good trader?

With all due respect, the trading power of a facility which is not yet even completed or open can't possibly be known by anyone. Personally, I can't even fathom paying developer pricing for a facility still under construction, with the stated objective to just trade with it. That frankly just baffles me.

With the very limited facts and info presented, I'd recommend having your lawyer promptly extract you from this situation. If necessary, take the $3k "hit" as the cost of a lesson learned --- and do a whole lot more research on timeshare values and all the intricacies of "exchanging" before jumping back into the timeshare waters. Just my personal opinion --- you asked.

 

[king1]

FWIW: My crystal ball only goes forward five years, but it shows that if you hadn't rescinded you would love to be able to get that millstone from around your neck for a mere 3K.

 

[sernow]

I don't know your full situation and am not a lawyer, but would recommend that you consult with a real estate attorney well versed n NY real estate law. There are consumer protection laws in New York that may protect you.

You may be able to cancel your contract and receive your deposit back because condominium construction is governed in New York State by the terms of the offering plan and the contract of sale. These documents generally provide for a specific closing date. The purchaser typically has the option to cancel the contract if closing does not occur by that date. The option to cancel must usually be exercised within a fixed time after the proposed closing date.

In addition, other regulations for newly constructed condominiums grant purchasers a right of rescission if the offering plan is amended with a material change. These amendments must be served in writing. If you weren't served, you may be able to rescind and receive your deposit back.

This is why it is vital to consult with a NY real estate attorney. They may be able to save you a lot of money.

 

[gorevs9]

Here's my analysis...

So with that in mind. Is it still clear that resale would still be a better deal and I should get out? Its a new resort so I have no idea of how good a trader it will be. i WOULD WANT IT MOSTLY FOR TRADING. Its a nice place and we will get 4 weeks per year. There are some special deals with the new contract, but nothing worth a hugh amount.

With what exchange company is the resort associated, II or RCI?
IMO, Hope Lake Lodge would be a decent trader with the winter, summer, and foliage weeks. Spring time (mud season) and late fall would be weaker.
What four weeks are you going to get? I assume you and your buddies worked out the logistics of sharing the weeks. For example, President's week would have better trade value than the 1st week of February even though they will both be "Red Weeks".
I would put it on par with other inland New England resorts. It may even grow to get the reputation of Smugglers Notch.
That area of NY is great for outdoor sports, like skiing, hiking, etc. The ski area associated with Hope Lodge is Greek Peak and it's a smaller venue. It might not attract the serious skiers, though it looks like a great place for families.
There are not a lot of TS in the area, so that would increase the trade value a bit.
What are the MFs? The MFs can get high in the north, when have to consider snow removal, maintaining an indoor pool (not to mention a water park).
In any case, if you are doing it strictly for trading, then take the advice of the other posters. You can get a strong trader for less $$ on the resale market.
If you really want to own at that resort, wait a few years. There will most likely be people looking to sell for any number of reasons.

 

[wackymother]

thanks good point. I am in not rush to buy in a year though. just thinking of the overall value of the retail cost. and yes hope lake lodge is delayed over a year and lawyer can negotiate. worst case would be the 3K. I am not stuck on hope lake lodge, looking for mostly trading.

any thoughts on hope lake lodge being a good trader?. Your the first person I talk to who even knew about hope lake?

I noticed it in the RCI book ages ago, because it was right where I was planning a vacation. I even got a prospectus from them about two years ago. It looks really nice...but it's not completed and the construction has been dragging on for literally years. Do they have ANY units ready for occupancy? In this economy, you have to worry that the construction may never be finished.

I'm sure the summer weeks will be good traders with RCI, but you will have to take shoulder and off-season weeks with your quartershare, too. What's the maintenance like? I'm sure you can get better, less expensive traders, without the commitment of a quartershare.

Bottom line, I agree with the poster who said get out NOW, while the worst hit you'll take is $3K. You can always buy it later if you decide you love it.

 

[nydvc]

With all due respect, the trading power of a facility which is not yet even completed or open can't possibly be known by anyone. Personally, I can't even fathom paying developer pricing for a facility still under construction, with the stated objective to just trade with it. That frankly just baffles me.

With the very limited facts and info presented, I'd recommend having your lawyer promptly extract you from this situation. If necessary, take the $3k "hit" as the cost of a lesson learned --- and do a whole lot more research on timeshare values and all the intricacies of "exchanging" before jumping back into the timeshare waters. Just my personal opinion --- you asked.

Now be nice! I understand this is confusing. I signed the contract 1 1/2 years ago BEFORE I learned aobut you guys and like many people who buy retail did not have all the facts. Trying to cut my loses based on a uniformed previous decision. I actually signed it thinking it was different then a time share and would go UP in value. Still may be true but from what I have learned from you guys its VERY VERY unlikely.

 

[krissydee]

wait, wait, wait...

you went in with 2 other people on a 1/4 share so you each get 4 weeks of the 12 total.

Is this on 1 contract?
You're trying to get out of your 4 weeks, do the other 2 people agree? You can't get out of 1/3 of a contract on your own, either the other 2 people would have to take over your portion if they want to keep it, or all 3 of you would have to agree to fight it.

On what grounds are you trying to cancel? Did the resort mislead you or lie to you? Just changing your mind after the rescind period probably isn't going to get you out of this.

Would love to hear some more details of your story, it may alter the advice you're given.

I also don't think a 1/4 share is quite like timeshare, I have always thought of it as holding more value than a timeshare week where value goes down the tubes before the ink dry's. But that's just my perspective.

 

[nydvc]

wait, wait, wait...

you went in with 2 other people on a 1/4 share so you each get 4 weeks of the 12 total.

Is this on 1 contract?
You're trying to get out of your 4 weeks, do the other 2 people agree? You can't get out of 1/3 of a contract on your own, either the other 2 people would have to take over your portion if they want to keep it, or all 3 of you would have to agree to fight it.

On what grounds are you trying to cancel? Did the resort mislead you or lie to you? Just changing your mind after the rescind period probably isn't going to get you out of this.

Would love to hear some more details of your story, it may alter the advice you're given.

I also don't think a 1/4 share is quite like timeshare, I have always thought of it as holding more value than a timeshare week where value goes down the tubes before the ink dry's. But that's just my perspective.

My partners are making there decision now. I am assuming the builder will not care if only 2 people close but that is still an open issue. To me the worst case is the 3K if my friends decide to keep it I will certainly want to give them soem money but I dont think they would want the 3K. This is all very friendly on their end. No hard feelings on their end which is nice.

construction has been delayed for 2 years now and wont be conpleted to fall of 2009 if that in these times. Teh only lie was it was to be completed winter of 2007. they have actually had a price increase in spring 2008 for 10%, but I have no idea how good its been selling. Not like they would tell me. :hysterical:

 

[nydvc]

With what exchange company is the resort associated, II or RCI?
IMO, Hope Lake Lodge would be a decent trader with the winter, summer, and foliage weeks. Spring time (mud season) and late fall would be weaker.
What four weeks are you going to get? I assume you and your buddies worked out the logistics of sharing the weeks. For example, President's week would have better trade value than the 1st week of February even though they will both be "Red Weeks".
I would put it on par with other inland New England resorts. It may even grow to get the reputation of Smugglers Notch.
That area of NY is great for outdoor sports, like skiing, hiking, etc. The ski area associated with Hope Lodge is Greek Peak and it's a smaller venue. It might not attract the serious skiers, though it looks like a great place for families.
There are not a lot of TS in the area, so that would increase the trade value a bit.
What are the MFs? The MFs can get high in the north, when have to consider snow removal, maintaining an indoor pool (not to mention a water park).
In any case, if you are doing it strictly for trading, then take the advice of the other posters. You can get a strong trader for less $$ on the resale market.
If you really want to own at that resort, wait a few years. There will most likely be people looking to sell for any number of reasons.

The exchange company would be RCI

 

[charford]

Just for comparison, since someone mentioned Smugglers Notch. Smuggs resale asking prices for a 14 week package is 50 K for a 1 bedroom, 88K for a 2 bedroom and 139K for a 3 bedroom. For a 16 week package, asking prices are between 85K for a 2 bedroom and 200K for a 3 bedroom.

I've been watching their 'share prices for about 9 years. The asking prices haven't really moved from their original developer prices. Lately, the closing prices are about 10% off original developer prices.

Smugglers has a lot of amenities and a reputation. I wouldn't expect a new resort in upstate NY to hold its prices as well as Smuggs has.

 

[nydvc]

Just for comparison, since someone mentioned Smugglers Notch. Smuggs resale asking prices for a 14 week package is 50 K for a 1 bedroom, 88K for a 2 bedroom and 139K for a 3 bedroom. For a 16 week package, asking prices are between 85K for a 2 bedroom and 200K for a 3 bedroom.

I've been watching their 'share prices for about 9 years. The asking prices haven't really moved from their original developer prices. Lately, the closing prices are about 10% off original developer prices.

Smugglers has a lot of amenities and a reputation. I wouldn't expect a new resort in upstate NY to hold its prices as well as Smuggs has.

the contract does has a ROFR clause, but not sure if they would invoke it.

 

[charford]

A ROFR clause doesn't guarantee that they will buy it back for what you paid for it. The clause means they can buy it back, if they want to. Right now, Marriott and DVC are not invoking ROFR nearly as much as they did a year ago. Have a look at High Quality Timeshare prices plummeting

 

[nydvc]

I want to thank everyone for their input and advice. It has been very helpful. I still may be stuck because my friends want to stay in and I am not sure they can without me staying in. I've been eamiling them info from this site all day yesterday. I hope I can get them to change there mind. or atleast take over my part.


I cant tell you how much I appreciate all the info I got here. I am stuck in a bad situation and I sure wish I did my research ahead of time and found you guys earlier. Obviously in the big picture I could have worse problems, I still will have a decient place that I think will trade OK.

If anyone has any other thoughts or advice. please let me know. This is a great site.

 

[JudyS]

Just a quick 2 cents --

I want to point out that the people saying, "The worst hit you will take is $3k" are probably wrong. If you simply walk away from this contract, your credit rating could take a major hit.

However, as several people here have stated, since the resort did not open on time, you may be legally entitled to cancel and get your deposit back. But, you would need a lawyer to advise you.

Lastly and perhaps most importantly, it is VERY VERY unlikely that you will make money on this timeshare. It is almost impossible to make money on timeshares unless you research your purchases first and really know what you are doing. Right now, there are tons of bargains on high-end timeshares. You could take that $3k and buy something resale that you would be likely to make money on, once the economy recovers. Also, given that the resort is behind schedule, I would be concerned that the developer might be insolvent and could go bankrupt, taking your deposit with him. I would encourage you to show this thread to your friends, or have them come here to TUG, so they may change their minds. If they really feel strongly that would would like to keep this timeshare, you could offer to let them buy you out for, say, $2k. However, once they realize what a lousy deal they're stuck with, they may not stay your friends much longer!

 

[theo]

For the record...

I want to point out that the people saying, "The worst hit you will take is $3k" are probably wrong.

With all due respect, I must point out that it was the OP's own assertion (...NOT that of others...) that $3k would be his / her loss. See post #1.

 

[nydvc]

Just a quick 2 cents --

I want to point out that the people saying, "The worst hit you will take is $3k" are probably wrong. If you simply walk away from this contract, your credit rating could take a major hit.

However, as several people here have stated, since the resort did not open on time, you may be legally entitled to cancel and get your deposit back. But, you would need a lawyer to advise you.

Lastly and perhaps most importantly, it is VERY VERY unlikely that you will make money on this timeshare. It is almost impossible to make money on timeshares unless you research your purchases first and really know what you are doing. Right now, there are tons of bargains on high-end timeshares. You could take that $3k and buy something resale that you would be likely to make money on, once the economy recovers. Also, given that the resort is behind schedule, I would be concerned that the developer might be insolvent and could go bankrupt, taking your deposit with him. I would encourage you to show this thread to your friends, or have them come here to TUG, so they may change their minds. If they really feel strongly that would would like to keep this timeshare, you could offer to let them buy you out for, say, $2k. However, once they realize what a lousy deal they're stuck with, they may not stay your friends much longer!

Well, we have contacted a lawyer and based on her review of the contract we would lose our down payment if we get out which was 10%, 3K for me. That could be negotiated lower witht ehlawyers help. no garrentee's ofcourse.

I think you would be right if I just walked away. I dont plan on doing that. I will use the lawyer to recind. Now maybe they could still trash my credit. Not sure how common that is. I have never had any credit problems. but It would seem to me the contract says you lose you deposit if you dont close, the worst they could do is take my 10%.

And belive me I have been sending my friends links here all day yesterday adn today. I hope it does some good.

Thanks for your help.