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Need advice on a credit card issue

Karen G

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In August my husband made reservations for a tee time at the new Quivira golf course at Pueblo Bonito Sunset Beach through the PB online reservations dept. In his email exchanges with the agent he said he would like one of four available dates during the week we'd be there.

The girl erroneously made four tee times and promptly charged our credit card $560. My husband responded that he wanted just ONE of the four dates and the price was $140. She acknowledged her mistake and said she would reverse the $560 and charge just the $140.

She never processed the reversal of the $560 and we had both charges on our card. We immediately disputed the charge with our card holder. When we got back from our vacation we sent copies of the email exchange and described what happened. We got a letter from the credit card co. (Chase) saying that Pueblo Bonito said the charges were valid and enclosed copies of the two charges with no explanation and no mention of the emails.

I talked with a supervisor at the credit card co. and she said we could dispute the charge again with the next dept. that dealt with disputes. We did that and today got a letter saying that they consider the charges valid--again with no explanation or mention of the emails.

I've been in contact with another agent at the PB reservations dept. who told me the girl who originally made the mistake is no longer there. After much searching he found the two charges and said he submitted a refund. That was over a week ago and nothing has come through on our credit card info online.

If they don't refund the $560 we're considering closing the card and just not paying it. We can send explanations to all the credit reporting entities, but my question is how much damage will this do to our credit score?
 

tompalm

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That will do lots of damage. Keep fighting it and calling the credit card company and the person you talked to at the golf course that said he would refund it. Write emails or letters to the corporate office letting them know you plan to contact their local newspaper and TV station to do a follow up and ask them to investigate and make it public. Also tell them you going to list it on every local media website to let others know about the problem. If none of that works, pay the extra $420, close the card and forget about it.
 

klpca

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Well that's ridiculous of PBSB to not resolve this correctly.

You can also "complain" on their social media pages. I have heard that some people have had better luck publicizing their problems there. I don't have any first hand experiences with that, but it would be worth a try. Good luck to you.
 

Joe33426

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Years ago I didn't pay a disputed charge to a cell phone company and when I went for a mortgage I ended up having to pay it anyways and it just delayed the process of getting the mortgage. I also wouldn't take a hit to my credit by not paying your credit card company.

I'd keep pushing Chase to resolve the issue. I'd also complain to Chase corporate for the awful customer service you've received from the dispute department. There are websites that provide email address of top executives at major corporations. If you have good documentation, you might also consider filing a complaint with a banking regulator, that will get Chase's attention really quickly.

I'm not sure about using social media. Recent cases of people being sued for posting negative reviews. I've had the most success resolving disputes by complaining forcefully.

Good luck!
 

Egret1986

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I had a similar problem and ultimately had to pay the charges and move on.

That will do lots of damage. Keep fighting it and calling the credit card company and the person you talked to at the golf course that said he would refund it. Write emails or letters to the corporate office letting them know you plan to contact their local newspaper and TV station to do a follow up and ask them to investigate and make it public. Also tell them you going to list it on every local media website to let others know about the problem. If none of that works, pay the extra $420, close the card and forget about it.

I submitted pages and pages, and pictures of documents. Did I ever imagine that after five months of dispute that I would still have to pay? No, way, I believed. Cut and dry. But I did finally have to pay and even had two months of interest earned while I fought the dispute. Social media was used. Parent company contacted. In the end, the Dispute Specialist for CITI was referring to the merchant by their first name in communication to me. :eek: What gives????????????? I'm disputing a charge by this merchant and you're referring to him as Bill??????? :mad:

I complained by phone to CITI. I was simply told the dispute had been denied and that it was appropriately handled.

To the OP, I would pay the charge before walking away and not paying it. My charge was $3600. I believed that I had a nice paper trail that would back my dispute without question. In the end, the merchant wasn't budging to settle it. CITI found for the merchant.

Potentially damaging my credit was not an option. I believed that the credit card company offered protection on such charges, but I was very mistaken.

I do not believe my merchant was reputable. Perhaps, yours is, and will get it straightened out with the extra charge reversed.
 

geekette

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Contact PBSB management or concierge. Let them know they are your last resort. They would be the ones to actually care about customer service and resort reputation, and able to reach out to the right parties to correct this. Smearing them on social media would accomplish nothing and I'm surprised people are suggesting it. Please don't anyone teach their kids that it's conflict resolution as it's simply vindictive escalation.

An employee made an error and got fired before she could correct it. Crap happens, others don't seem to be able to fix it (not everyone has authority to noodle with credit transactions - this is a good thing!) ; go higher in the resort mgmt.
 

Karen G

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I agree that PB reservations dept. is the only one that can help me. The credit card dispute people are worthless at this point--they don't seem to even grasp what happened. They just keep saying it's a valid charge and they can't reverse it.

I've had some contact through Facebook private messaging with someone on the Pueblo Bonito Owners page who says they'll get in touch with the reservations dept. where the error was made. I've actually talked with a nice young man in that dept. who seems to be trying to help.

I'm still holding out hope that it can be resolved and of course I'm praying a lot about it!:) It is so frustrating!
 

presley

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My experience in dealing with Chase is to only contact the fraud department. I don't even think the people who deal with the initial contacting can read English, let alone understand it.

When you ask for the fraud department, the person answering the initial call may try to get your story. Don't bother explaining it. Just keep insisting that you speak to the fraud department. Then, tell the fraud department that you have been scammed by the company who ran the charges.

Since it's been such a hassle, destroy your cards and switch to a different credit card company. There are other many other choices out there and you won't want to go through all this again in the event of another dispute.
 

geekette

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My experience in dealing with Chase is to only contact the fraud department. I don't even think the people who deal with the initial contacting can read English, let alone understand it.

When you ask for the fraud department, the person answering the initial call may try to get your story. Don't bother explaining it. Just keep insisting that you speak to the fraud department. Then, tell the fraud department that you have been scammed by the company who ran the charges.

Since it's been such a hassle, destroy your cards and switch to a different credit card company. There are other many other choices out there and you won't want to go through all this again in the event of another dispute.

I could not disagree more. Why smear PB for the incompetent and non-malicious actions of an employee? No Scam. No Fraud.
 

DeniseM

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Pueblo Bonito is responsible for the actions of their employees, whether the employee is still with them or not.

If PB is aware of the over-charge and have not corrected it, they have an obligation to make it right, and I certainly would have no problem taking it to social media to get my refund.

I can't understand why anyone would feel that PB should be protected, or handled with kid gloves, and I'd feel exactly the same at a resort that I owned.
 
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geekette

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Pueblo Bonito is responsible for the actions of their employees, whether the employee is still with them or not.

If PB is aware of the over-charge and have not corrected it, they have an obligation to make it right, and I certainly would have no problem taking it to social media to get my refund.

I can't understand why anyone would feel that PB should be protected, or handled with kid gloves, and I'd feel exactly the same at a resort that I owned.
Not PB specifically, I don't protect anyone. PB is a company, so Someone is aware of the problem and maybe not the correct Someone to fix it. PB is not some magic brain where just because Someone knows then by golly it All knows and should simply be fixed with snap of fingers. No, it doesn't work like that. People answering the phone are often not the people running the business. I don't have accountants at the customer service desk and I sure don't have customer service reps counting the beans. PB is not a small organization, the problem has to get to the people that can do something about it.

If your boss screws you over do you take to social media to ruin their reputation or do you take the problem to your boss and their superior? If you don't get immediate satisfaction do you then call local news to be sure they get demonized in the community?

I'm just not keen on smearing ANY company or person, timeshare or not, without adequate time to resolve the issue. Life ain't perfect and sometimes it's a pain to fix problems. I don't see that dragging someone thru the mud accomplishes the goals.

Quite likely I will make more mistakes in my life, being that I am a flawed individual. It would be appalling for someone to take that mistake and create a vigilante smear campaign about me and my alleged egregious incompetence or whatever. This is all I'm saying. Why make a mountain from a molehill? Let the process run its course instead of jump to SCAM, FRAUD, etc. needless hyperbole that accomplishes nothing but tarnishing a company.

But, hey, if everyone is all about public shaming and humiliation when something in life goes wrong, have at it. Everyone's a victim of fraud.
 

Elan

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I'd take the hit to my credit score before I paid for services or merchandise I never received.

Having said that, one thing that crossed my mind is whether it was clear that your husband was playing as a single when he booked his tee time? Because sometimes when one books a tee time, and it's not clear that they're a single, the course thinks you want the tee time for a foursome. Were you charged for 4 times on different dates or 4 players all for the same date/time?
 

DeniseM

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Why make a mountain from a molehill? Let the process run its course instead of jump to SCAM, FRAUD, etc. needless hyperbole that accomplishes nothing but tarnishing a company.

The process has already run it's course. She has already been denied a refund - twice.

She already has contacted PB multiple times, and they did nothing.

It would be appalling for someone to take that mistake and create a vigilante smear campaign about me and my alleged egregious incompetence or whatever.

No one has said "smear campaign," except you. A truthful complaint on PB's social media page is not a "smear compaign."

If your boss screws you over do you take to social media to ruin their reputation or do you take the problem to your boss and their superior? If you don't get immediate satisfaction do you then call local news to be sure they get demonized in the community?

This doesn't make any sense. How is a problem with your boss related to a credit card over-charge?

You haven't sounded like yourself the last couple of days - your posts have been very angry.
 
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LisaH

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I've been in contact with another agent at the PB reservations dept. who told me the girl who originally made the mistake is no longer there. After much searching he found the two charges and said he submitted a refund. That was over a week ago and nothing has come through on our credit card info online.

When did he submit the refund? a Refund usually takes time.
 

cgeidl

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Credit card companies workmostly for the merchants

That is where they make more dollars. What is one person's charges compared to hundreds of people using their cards for the merchant?
We just went thru a three year suit against a bank which ruined our credit card score and made a home loan impossible.Very
After lots of correspondence and an all day deposition the suit was settled by a superior court justice fairly just before trial. Lawyer fees at $700 per hour were paid.
I think that social media complaints are justified, just like your TUG complaint. Why not let others know how the place treated you?
Another thought. In our Sunday paper there is a column about travel problems,mainly charges and the author contacts the merchant and has the power of the press. The customer wins every time in the articles published.
 
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Karen G

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Were you charged for 4 times on different dates or 4 players all for the same date/time?
The tee time was for a twosome. It was $70 each or $140 for the two of them for the one day that they played. The $560 charge was for four different days.
 

Elan

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The tee time was for a twosome. It was $70 each or $140 for the two of them for the one day that they played. The $560 charge was for four different days.

Ok, thanks for the clarification.
 

Karen G

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When did he submit the refund? a Refund usually takes time.
It has been about ten days now. On the date he said he submitted the refund to the "financial dept." I sent a letter to Chase informing them of that fact. Then we left on a week-long cruise.

Chase responded to that letter right away saying the charge is valid and they won't be doing anything else about it.
 

geekette

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The process has already run it's course. She has already been denied a refund - twice.

She already has contacted PB multiple times, and they did nothing.



No one has said "smear campaign," except you. A truthful complaint on PB's social media page is not a "smear compaign."



This doesn't make any sense. How is a problem with your boss related to a credit card over-charge?

You haven't sounded like yourself the last couple of days - your posts have been very angry.

I dispute your opinion that my posts have "been very angry", but, I will not take to social media to complain about your opinion that portends to assess my current state.

I am making a point independent of this being a credit card transaction at a resort, I am talking about conflict resolution. I happen to think that public shaming is not the way to solve problems. It's just not true that whoever yells loudest or longest or gets the most people to agree with them is in the right.

OPs posts indicate PB has attempted to submit a refund so you are incorrect that they have "done nothing". My guess is the credit processor is attempting to figure it out at this point, so I find it premature to indict the merchant. Your opinion differs. That doesn't make me angry. Your presumptions annoy me, but it's pretty easy to let go.
 

VacationForever

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It has been about ten days now. On the date he said he submitted the refund to the "financial dept." I sent a letter to Chase informing them of that fact. Then we left on a week-long cruise.

Chase responded to that letter right away saying the charge is valid and they won't be doing anything else about it.

I think you should contact PB again since a reverse charge has yet to show up.

Reading this thread makes me appreciate Amex reversal / dispute resolution. I have successfully disputed many charges and I have not encountered any pushbacks.
 

Ty1on

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It has been about ten days now. On the date he said he submitted the refund to the "financial dept." I sent a letter to Chase informing them of that fact. Then we left on a week-long cruise.

Chase responded to that letter right away saying the charge is valid and they won't be doing anything else about it.

This is why we pay for all travel expenses with AmEx. They have helped us out of more than one jam like this.
 

gmarine

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It seems like Karen is 100% in the right and the resort hasnt done enough to solve the problem. Its very simple to correct and she shouldnt have to spend a lot of her own time on a mistake by the resort. For that reason I would take to every outlet possible to shame, irritate and annoy the resort in every way possible until I got my refund.

I have always been happy with the service of Chase. However in this case it appears Chase has failed as well. Karen is afforded protection under the Fair Credit Billing Act and it appears Chase may have been lax is its investigation of the charges. I'd contact Chase again and if they dont escalate the issue I'd add them to my shame, irritate and annoy list.

My guess is the OP will eventually succeed in getting the charges reversed but it may take more time and effort.
 

am1

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Pueblo Bonito is responsible for the actions of their employees, whether the employee is still with them or not.

If PB is aware of the over-charge and have not corrected it, they have an obligation to make it right, and I certainly would have no problem taking it to social media to get my refund.

I can't understand why anyone would feel that PB should be protected, or handled with kid gloves, and I'd feel exactly the same at a resort that I owned.

I will second this. They have the option to refund the money if they do not want people complaining about their practices.

This can be very stressful and time consuming to the purchaser who in this case seems to have done nothing wrong.
 

klpca

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When I suggested social media it wasn't to shame them - it was to motivate them to resolve the issue. Telling the truth on social media is only shameful if what they have done is shameful.

Dealing with the folks at PBSB is painful if you need them to do anything out of the ordinary. I sold my week there in 2014, my buyer paid the transfer fee directly to PBSB vis credit card. It took them from September 14, 2014 until April 16, 2015 to get the "deed" to the buyer. At first I was very patient - Odile was definitely an issue, but by February it had reached a ridiculous level. Luckily the contract was an EOY so there were no maintenance fees to deal with, but the buyer was unable to make reservations for their first use year and I couldn't do it for them because as far as PBSB was concerned, I didn't own it any more. So frustrating for both of us. I used the gentle-pressure-consistently-applied method, but in OP's case I'm not sure if that will work.
 

MichaelColey

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I've been in similar situations before, and my suggestion would be to continue to escalate things on all possible fronts -- PBSB, credit card, management, fraud department, etc. Out of principle, if nothing else.

Once the situation is resolved (or you give up), make changes based on who was truly helpful. American Express is my preferred card not only for the earned points/perks/benefits, but also because they handle disputes much easier and better.
 
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