My Timeshare Nightmare..Please share your story

[jpc763]

All of my weeks are developer purchases. I bought before I found (or even looked for) TUG.

I learned how to maximize the enjoyment from these weeks and do not regret the vacations I have been able to take.

What I did was help friends and family purchase the same resorts on the resale market for a fraction of the price I paid. That way, I have vacation buddies! I am headed to my full pop retail Shadow Ridge for Thanksgiving with my Brother in Law who purchased the same week I have for about $2K (his is every year). Am I bitter that he paid a fraction of what I paid? No. I am glad I was able to save him money.

It appears your week is in Tahoe. That is a great location to go back to year after year. Figure out how to use your week and enjoy it.

 

[bvogel7475]

Moderator Note: Comment deleted. Please review the TUG Posting Rules, particularly #6 Be Courteous.

 

[bvogel7475]

I sympathize with bvogel7475. Like many owners here, we bought directly from Marriott before becoming fully educated about the realities timeshare ownership and the resale market. Marriott is very good at selling a dream and they got us (twice). We now own 5 Marriott weeks (2 developer weeks purchased directly from Marriott and 3 resale weeks purchased at ridiculous discounts during the depths of the recession). The cheap price of the resale purchases helps remove the sting of the inflated price of the developer purchases and it all averages out to a figure that let's us sleep at night (it helps that we didn't do Marriott financing).

We were smart enough to buy in locations where we like to visit, so trading is fairly rare for us. Although our two enrolled weeks give us Executive Level membership in the DC points program, we have only made a few reservations via DC points. We can never seem to find the inventory we want and the process is anything but transparent when reserving with DC points (shell game comes to mind). For us, weeks is still the way to go.

So back to bvogel7475 ...

Given the amount you paid and the amount you could sell it for, I would encourage you to just hold on to your Timber Lodge week and continue using it for great vacations. We have visited there many times and it is a beautiful resort in a beautiful location. Building some sweet vacation memories there will help eliminate the nightmare feeling.

Maybe you just need a change of perspective. Instead of thinking of your timeshare purchase as a real estate investment that has lost its value, I encourage you instead to think of it more like a RV purchase which will inevitably depreciate and incur maintenance costs, but will also give you some great family vacation memories for your money spent.

Very good points. Actually, your post is the best response I have seen. I've made far more memories paying $250 a night for nice condo rental in Mammoth. Now that everyone has confirmed that the time share game is really about developers making ridiculous money at the expense of suckers, I realize now that I should have never though that my timeshare would hold any value. I never had a chance, just like the way we fight the drug war will never work... I never expected appreciation. That would have been nuts. However, I could sell my daughter's 2008 Honda Civic that I paid $19K for new for at least $5K today with no commission and the car has only had regular maintenance like oil changes and tires. They say cars have the worst depreciation of any major purchase. I beg to differ. Timeshares are the kind of depreciation!!!

 

[JIMinNC]

Thanks for all the comments. I didn't see anything I don't already know. However, it's my fault for not researching timeshares in 2008 to see that are only worth 10% of their value after you purchase them. I don't think that's an accurate fact for timeshares in desireable locations like Hawaii, St Thomas or even Lake Tahoe. Why would anyone buy a timeshare in that case. I've lost all respect for Marriott while I have gone through this process. I am going to pay the timeshare off in a few months as I will have the money to do so in March of 2017. Then, I will sell it and never have anything to do with timeshare's again. Learned my lesson the hard way. It still doesn't make Marriott an ethical company to do business this way. I will continue to persuade anyone I know to never buy a timeshare.

In response to the words bolded above...as others have said, people usually buy from developers rather than resale because they either don't know about the resale market (this is the most common reason) or because the developer offers something not currently readily available on the resale market (less common). But looked at another way, the reason you might buy is because you are buying to USE the timeshare, not buying it as an investment. When you buy a car, you expect that it will depreciate and you'll sell it one day for much, much less than you paid. You don't expect to sell it for anywhere close to what you paid. (If I sold my 9-year old car now, I might not get much more than 10% of what I paid.) In that sense, buying a timeshare is a lot more like buying a car than buying a house. On the other hand, a timeshare is obviously different, in that an old car is a lot different than a new car, but a "used" (resale) timeshare is virtually identical to a "new" one. Nevertheless, you should always view the purchase price as an upfront cost that gets used up over your ownership period in the value of the vacations you take...not as an investment.

 

[5infam]

To the OP, regarding buying in hawaii, I own at the Marriott in Maui. I did my research and through the great folks here on TUG, purchased resale. With closing costs and the purchase price, I spent $13k about 10 years ago or so. At the time, that was about half of the price direct from Marriott. I am now selling that week to a friend for $5k. So, technically I am losing $8k on the transaction. It is not that bad, because if I would have rented the weeks we stayed I would have paid $500 to $1,000 more per week vs maintenance, and I rented some weeks we couldn't go and made about $500 per week above maintenance. So what I am saying is that Hawaii is not immune to the market and value of timeshares. Buying resale did not protect me either. I am not bitter at all about my loss here and am buying more weeks in Maui in larger units with the same or better views, as we love the place and will use it. If the weeks I am buying lose value over time and I lose my purchase price, no biggie. I know what I am getting into and it is not an investment but is a risk. However, if you use what you own and enjoy it, the money is worth it for me and my family.

On a side note, I also own DVC points that I bought from Disney directly. I just listed them for sale today and expect to make a 30% profit on those. I never expected a profit especially since they are right to use points and expire in 2042, versus deeded for ever, but I will make a profit based on what I paid the developer. Not the isual timeshare story, but it happens. So I am taking that profit and buying more Marriott in Maui, which based on dollars alone seems like a bad move. But we will use Maui and love it there so worth it to us. Good luck on whatever you decide to do!

 

[BocaBoy]

This is a big difference between real estate and selling timeshares and it has nothing to do with resale value. It has to do with the amount of integrity and honesty you get from the sales person you are working with. In most areas you must be licensed to sell real estate. With timeshares you can say just about anything during the selling process.

I think timeshare sales people also have to be licensed to sell real estate, since that is what they are selling.

 

[bvogel7475]

To the OP, regarding buying in hawaii, I own at the Marriott in Maui. I did my research and through the great folks here on TUG, purchased resale. With closing costs and the purchase price, I spent $13k about 10 years ago or so. At the time, that was about half of the price direct from Marriott. I am now selling that week to a friend for $5k. So, technically I am losing $8k on the transaction. It is not that bad, because if I would have rented the weeks we stayed I would have paid $500 to $1,000 more per week vs maintenance, and I rented some weeks we couldn't go and made about $500 per week above maintenance. So what I am saying is that Hawaii is not immune to the market and value of timeshares. Buying resale did not protect me either. I am not bitter at all about my loss here and am buying more weeks in Maui in larger units with the same or better views, as we love the place and will use it. If the weeks I am buying lose value over time and I lose my purchase price, no biggie. I know what I am getting into and it is not an investment but is a risk. However, if you use what you own and enjoy it, the money is worth it for me and my family.

On a side note, I also own DVC points that I bought from Disney directly. I just listed them for sale today and expect to make a 30% profit on those. I never expected a profit especially since they are right to use points and expire in 2042, versus deeded for ever, but I will make a profit based on what I paid the developer. Not the usual timeshare story, but it happens. So I am taking that profit and buying more Marriott in Maui, which based on dollars alone seems like a bad move. But we will use Maui and love it there so worth it to us. Good luck on whatever you decide to do!

You still retained about 38% of the value of your Hawaii timeshare. I would take that in a heartbeat. Mine has only retained about 25%. You are still way ahead of me. I think just about anything Disney related holds it's value really well at the moment and probably will well into the future. Best vacation I ever went on was a week long stay at the Disney World Boardwalk resort in one of their Villa's. The whole setup was great, the service was great, and I really enjoyed never having to get in a car to get around the entire Disneyworld resort complex.

 

[bvogel7475]

I think timeshare sales people also have to be licensed to sell real estate, since that is what they are selling.

You are correct. Timeshare salespeople get a timeshare real estate license and usually have to take a 30 hour course. You have to work for a broker (Marriott is of course one) to sell the timeshares. Mind you this certification has nothing to do with home sales and one would need a separate license for that. The timeshare license typically doesn't require the passing of an exam either.

 

[VacationForever]

You still retained about 38% of the value of your Hawaii timeshare. I would take that in a heartbeat. Mine has only retained about 25%. You are still way ahead of me. I think just about anything Disney related holds it's value really well at the moment and probably will well into the future. Best vacation I ever went on was a week long stay at the Disney World Boardwalk resort in one of their Villa's. The whole setup was great, the service was great, and I really enjoyed never having to get in a car to get around the entire Disneyworld resort complex.

25% is better than 0%. I bought my Vistana Resort from the developer, it became Starwood and now the group is merged/owned by Interval Leisure Group (holding company of II). Resale market is close to 0. I believe I came out "ahead" even if I have to give it away. All my vacations had paid for itself. Most of my trades would have cost at least 3 to 4 times my maintenance fees. If you look at it that way, you may not feel too bad about losing 75% of the purchase price.

 

[JIMinNC]

25% is better than 0%. I bought my Vistana Resort from the developer, it became Starwood and now the group is merged/owned by Interval Leisure Group (holding company of II). Resale market is close to 0. I believe I came out "ahead" even if I have to give it away. All my vacations had paid for itself. Most of my trades would have cost at least 3 to 4 times my maintenance fees. If you look at it that way, you may not feel too bad about losing 75% of the purchase price.

In my opinion this is the correct way to look at it. In the late 1990s, we bought a Maui timeshare that eventually wound up being part of the DRI system. We used it for 16 years (mostly in Hawaii, plus a few other trades), paid 16 years of maintenance fees, and sold it in 2014 for a little over 20% of what we paid (although after paying the broker commission and our share of closing costs, we only netted about 8% of purchase price). But when you factor in the value of the vacations we took over those 16 years, we came out ahead by several thousands of dollars.

 

[pacheco18]

I have no regrets about buying directly from developer. I have two from developer and one resale. Either we use our weeks or trade for points. We often got bonus weeks or two weeks for one when we traded in the early days of ownership. Now when I trade for points I get packages. With the miles I get I get free business class tickets to Europe or other places abroad. Over the years i think I have come close to even.

I never thought a timeshare purchase was a real estate investment or that I would make money. I bought where I wanted to go. Being angry at Marriott is silly IMO. They are in business to make a profit and profit they did. I think timeshares can be a win win if you know how to use the system effectively.

 

[alchook]

I have no regrets about buying directly from developer. I have two from developer and one resale. Either we use our weeks or trade for points. We often got bonus weeks or two weeks for one when we traded in the early days of ownership. Now when I trade for points I get packages. With the miles I get I get free business class tickets to Europe or other places abroad. Over the years i think I have come close to even.

That's been my take exactly. Yeah, I could have bought cheaper resale, but with the points incentives, used carefully, the difference wasn't all that much. And extrapolated over the usable lifespan was close to negligible.

The year I bought my first timeshare was the year I bought my current car, a new 2001 Acura MDX. When I worked out the financial considerations I simply assumed that neither would be worth anything at resale. Some things aren't investments. That porterhouse from Morton's is worth very little the next morning. Doesn't mean I regret buying it.

 

[topcop400]

In OP's very first post he mentions his desire for a class-action lawsuit. I'm just curious who he was thinking the other litigants would be.

 

[jeffrapp]

Although I'm not disagreeing with anything my fellow tuggers have said, you don't have to sell via Marriott. There are reputable resale brokers out there that may be able to handle your closing in a way to pay off your loan simultaneously with the sale that do not charge 40% in commissions.

I bought most of my resale weeks, and so did several of my friends, from a very reputable lady in Utah. I'm not sure if I'm permitted to post her name but I'm happy to send you her link if you privately email me.

Jan

I own points in the Diamond Resorts US Collection. I am interested in selling.
Does anyone have experience with this type of sale? Also, I would appreciate a referral to a reputable resale broker such as the lady in Utah.
If this information can't be posted in the Forum, please email me privately.
Thanks

 

[pumbug]

My Way To Look At Our Time Share

All of my weeks are developer purchases. I bought before I found (or even looked for) TUG.

I learned how to maximize the enjoyment from these weeks and do not regret the vacations I have been able to take.

What I did was help friends and family purchase the same resorts on the resale market for a fraction of the price I paid. That way, I have vacation buddies! I am headed to my full pop retail Shadow Ridge for Thanksgiving with my Brother in Law who purchased the same week I have for about $2K (his is every year). Am I bitter that he paid a fraction of what I paid? No. I am glad I was able to save him money.

It appears your week is in Tahoe. That is a great location to go back to year after year. Figure out how to use your week and enjoy it.

I agree with JPC763 here is our story...

We purchased Marriott Shadow Ridge Palm Desert in 2003.. From Marriott...and do not regret the decision basically because our sales person was honest.
His advise was "don't buy this as an investment, buy it for your enjoyment and great vacation opportunities"
The way we evaluate our enjoyment is I have created a "T/S Value Report" spreadsheet.... kind of a profit /loss statement.

All expenses, Original Cost ($16,097.98), Annual Maint Fees, Taxes, Lock Off Fees,II Exchange fees and even Tug Dues are on the expense side.

On the profit side are the "Usage Values" or the retail cost of every time we have used the T/S either at Shadow Ridge or at another property via trade or II Bonus weeks. To get this I check the cost to rent the same unit at the property on the internet.

AS OF TODAY...
THE BALANCE ON THIS P & L IS THAT WE ARE $24,162.15 AHEAD.

If you look at your time share this way it makes a better outcome for us..

 

[topcop400]

I own points in the Diamond Resorts US Collection. I am interested in selling.
Does anyone have experience with this type of sale? Also, I would appreciate a referral to a reputable resale broker such as the lady in Utah.
If this information can't be posted in the Forum, please email me privately.
Thanks

I doubt you could sell it, but DRI has a deed-back program. There is a very long thread here with more than 600 posts to wade through, but it is under “Other Timeshare Systems”.

 

[BigMac]

I agree with JPC763 here is our story...

We purchased Marriott Shadow Ridge Palm Desert in 2003.. From Marriott...and do not regret the decision basically because our sales person was honest.
His advise was "don't buy this as an investment, buy it for your enjoyment and great vacation opportunities"
The way we evaluate our enjoyment is I have created a "T/S Value Report" spreadsheet.... kind of a profit /loss statement.

All expenses, Original Cost ($16,097.98), Annual Maint Fees, Taxes, Lock Off Fees,II Exchange fees and even Tug Dues are on the expense side.

On the profit side are the "Usage Values" or the retail cost of every time we have used the T/S either at Shadow Ridge or at another property via trade or II Bonus weeks. To get this I check the cost to rent the same unit at the property on the internet.

AS OF TODAY...
THE BALANCE ON THIS P & L IS THAT WE ARE $24,162.15 AHEAD.

If you look at your time share this way it makes a better outcome for us..

pumbug has it right. I bought points from Marriott in 2013 at Ko Olina at a discount to the 2013 value plus a bonus package. I asked the closer what the points I bought would be worth the minute I walked out the door and he told me 30-40%. He also said I might be able to break even in 10 years. We shall see. It does seem that "points' still increase a bit in resale value. I just wish someone in TUG tracked this like we track the Marriott sales value of points. I also keep a ledger similar to pumbug. It makes you feel better.

 

[fernow]

Developer prices are so high... because people will pay that price.

Buy a diamond ring and go sell it next week.

Buy a pair of expensive sunglasses, shoes, a jacket etc then go try to sell them.

Buy a car, drive it off the lot and put a For Sale sign in the window.

Timeshare is not Real Estate.

Someone buys new and some pays less and buys "used". The key is knowing you have that option.

 

[icydog]

To the OP. Unfortunately Marriott's prices are almost always the best you will get anywhere. Sometimes 2-3x as much as you can get elsewhere.

I disagree and agree. I have sold various timeshares via Redweek for more than was offered by Marriott. I have also passed on Marriott offers only to find out I couldn't get anything near the Marriott offer. This happened to me with an Orlando Marriott. By the time I decided Marriott beat anything I was being offered in private sales, they had yanked the offer.

 

[mvmess]

Amen!

Unfortunately, this is the greatest misconception about timeshares. If you want an investment, buy a condo.

Another option is to treat it as an income property. Rent it!

Too bad that the OP registered here 6 years ago, but clearly hadn't taken advantage of the group wisdom. What he found out last week wouldn't have surprises him so much.

1) Timeshare is NOT an investment.
2) NEVER finance a timeshare.
3) Timeshares value is 10% or less the value of original cost.
4) There IS NO practical resale market.
5) The value of timeshare is in the family memories they can enable. Not in any financial benefit.
6) EVERY timeshare owner gets old, and stops traveling. When this happens, the timeshare is a liability, not an asset.

Jim

 

[radmoo]

Better yet sign up for a 0% credit card. A few have a 2% balance transfer fee for 15 months of 0% interest. This would save the OP quite a lot and they wouldn't have to go through the trouble of doing a HELOC.

Marriott will NOT accept credit card to pay off loan balance, perhaps credit card checks?

 

[bogey21]

On May 1st, 2008 I purchased a one week, [Week details deleted.] I purchased this timeshare directly from the Marriott Vacation Club. The purchase price of the timeshare was $25,625. We financed the timeshare through Marriott. We received a 10 year loan at 13.99% for the total purchase price.

We did just about the same thing in the 80s, buying Sabal Palms, Harbour Club and Heritage Club Weeks directly from Marriott (all pre-construction)and financed them with Marriott. We also bought a Monarch Week resale.

But having spent approximately $75 thousand we didn't just sit still. We watched what was happening both with Marriott and the market and decided we weren't comfortable with it and needed to change course. We refinanced our Weeks and sold. It wasn't easy and took us about 3 years to completely divest, believe it or not at a small profit.

IMO your mistake wasn't buying your Week from Marriott. Rather it was that you did not recognize what was happening with what you purchased and if you didn't like what you saw happening, not acting to do something about it.

George

 

[MOXJO7282]

Marriott will NOT accept credit card to pay off loan balance, perhaps credit card checks?

Exactly. There are many CC that will offer balance transfer checks that you can deposit into your bank account. I've done this probably 50 or more times.

Back in the day banks did this for free when I bought all my Marriotts. I thought it was amazing because i saw it as free bank loans.

Now you can get a CC bank check for 2% for 15 months which is still a great deal. I still do it when I find a good resale deal. I just finished paying off a MOW OF that I got for $13.5K plus the $270 for the bank transfer fee . Paid it off over the 15 months using the banks money.

I couldn't have purchased this TS or many of the others I now own without these "bank loans". For years there really wasn't fees but even now if I find a really good deal I will use a balance transfer check and just consider the 2% a cost of doing business.

 

[pspercy]

. .......... I bought where I wanted to go. . . .

Bingo.

That's why we did it, no regrets