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My PICs disappeared overnight

Cyrus24

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Also the days of VIP owners using resale points with VIP discounts is coming to a end.
This will be easy to do with the Bucket calculators. Not so sure that PIC will be eliminated without some grandfathering. The current crack down on PIC's, via the enhanced verification process, might just be a way of slowing down participation.
 

Richelle

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This will be easy to do with the Bucket calculators. Not so sure that PIC will be eliminated without some grandfathering. The current crack down on PIC's, via the enhanced verification process, might just be a way of slowing down participation.

I’ve not heard about any enhanced verification process going on. The problem with Wyndham is, you get different answers every time. It’s like some of these people don’t have answers, and are afraid to admit it, so they make stuff up. There is zero reason for them to verify anything with Bendadin’s PICs. I think the excuse they gave is nonsense. They didn’t have an answer, so they made one up. The fact that she was able to do the PIC exchange means it was verified. It’s verified every time you do the exchange, so there is nothing to randomly verify. Maybe if someone had not exchanged their PIC in a long time, they might check, but that’s not the case for her.

We can put the tin foil hats away. Someone screwed up during the transfer of her resale CWA and deleted the PICs, thinking that was the contract they were tied to. No one wants to admit they made a mistake, so they make stuff up. This is why I said to email Michael Brown’s office. The people Bendadin is talking to, are the same people who screwed it up to begin with and are stringing her along.


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Richelle

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Patience is gone.

I was just told that I had to buy in at $29k for 126k points to reinstate these weeks.

It’s a sales person. They are not there to fix things. They are there to sell. You give them a problem, they use it as an opportunity to sell. You’ll never get help from sales people.


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dgalati

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I’ve not heard about any enhanced verification process going on. The problem with Wyndham is, you get different answers every time. It’s like some of these people don’t have answers, and are afraid to admit it, so they make stuff up. There is zero reason for them to verify anything with Bendadin’s PICs. I think the excuse they gave is nonsense. They didn’t have an answer, so they made one up. The fact that she was able to do the PIC exchange means it was verified. It’s verified every time you do the exchange, so there is nothing to randomly verify. Maybe if someone had not exchanged their PIC in a long time, they might check, but that’s not the case for her.

We can put the tin foil hats away. Someone screwed up during the transfer of her resale CWA and deleted the PICs, thinking that was the contract they were tied to. No one wants to admit they made a mistake, so they make stuff up. This is why I said to email Michael Brown’s office. The people Bendadin is talking to, are the same people who screwed it up to begin with and are stringing her along.


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Trading of deeds is the red flag. It has been on Wyndham's hit list. Wyndham's creation of a Negative points balance along with the $12/1000 Wyndham wants to charge on a negative balance is to prevent trading of deeds. Remember Ovations also will not create a negative balance if current use year points have been used.
 

dgalati

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It’s a sales person. They are not there to fix things. They are there to sell. You give them a problem, they use it as an opportunity to sell. You’ll never get help from sales people.


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Wyndham's sales always can fix a account problem by selling more points. No matter what the circumstance is.
 

HitchHiker71

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Trading of deeds is the red flag. It has been on Wyndham's hit list. Wyndham's creation of a Negative points balance along with the $12/1000 Wyndham wants to charge on a negative balance is to prevent trading of deeds. Remember Ovations also will not create a negative balance if current use year points have been used.

What exactly is meant by “trading of deeds”? If this isn’t something a normal owner would do, I would expect problems to arise. Outlier changes almost always experience a much higher likelihood of problems IME.

Bigger picture, I suspect just like anything else in life, the more often any type of activity occurs, the more likely we are to experience problems. Human error is inevitable. The more you drive, the more likely you are to have an accident. It’s a simple matter of mathematics and statistics really. The greater the rate of change/activity on your account, the more likely it is a problem may occur, since humans are a part of every account change process, and humans wrote the code that runs the system used to manage the data.


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dgalati

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What exactly is meant by “trading of deeds”? If this isn’t something a normal owner would do, I would expect problems to arise. Outlier changes almost always experience a much higher likelihood of problems IME.

Bigger picture, I suspect just like anything else in life, the more often any type of activity occurs, the more likely we are to experience problems. Human error is inevitable. The more you drive, the more likely you are to have an accident. It’s a simple matter of mathematics and statistics really. The greater the rate of change/activity on your account, the more likely it is a problem may occur, since humans are a part of every account change process, and humans wrote the code that runs the system used to manage the data.


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Software is slowly correcting any human errors. Autonomous vehicles is a great example of this. I truly believe human error is not responsible for any of the disruption. It is all intended to prevent what Wyndham has Identified as competition and costly to their bottom line and programs. Mega renters played within rules but were run out of dodge to protect Extra Holidays. The strippubg if deeds was within Wyndham rules at the tine contrary to what many believe. Vip owners buying millions of resale points to use with Vip benefits can also be compared to the abuse of mega renters.and what they took advantage of and all within Wyndham rules at the time.
 

Cyrus24

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My new purchase with a replacement PIC is being 'verified' and this is holding up my permanent Platinum status. In fact, I now show as Temporary VIP Gold whereas BEFORE I purchased more points, I was permanent Gold. Something is going on with PIC's, the verification process on my previous purchases were almost instantaneous. Now, given that my case is different than Bendadin's tells me, as well, that they have changed the process on PIC verifications. What may have happened 3 months ago is not happening today.
 
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Richelle

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Trading of deeds is the red flag. It has been on Wyndham's hit list. Wyndham's creation of a Negative points balance along with the $12/1000 Wyndham wants to charge on a negative balance is to prevent trading of deeds. Remember Ovations also will not create a negative balance if current use year points have been used.

A while back, I spoke to a certain person. She said that the points transfer happens automatically. They cannot choose to take points out if the old credit pool like I wanted. So if they have no control over the automatic process, this tells me that someone made a code change to the automatic process, that is allowing the negative balances where that’s never happened before. You’re the first person I’ve seen that happen to. I don’t think it’s to far fetched to think someone broke something given previous history. Bad code is a more likely reason then Wyndham going after people who own resale contracts. There is no gaming the system going on. No loopholes. Reign in the conspiracy theories please.

Everything we are doing is above board. We don’t hide anything. Wyndham is well aware of how many PIC enrollments they have. They could easily just stop taking new enrollments if they don’t want people getting VIP using PIC. PIC has been around since the 90’s. It’s been talked about in every member directory I’ve seen. It’s no hidden secret. I doubt that PIC enrollments have “exploded” to the point where it’s got them worried. It’s talked about in TUG, but the majority of TUGGERs are big into buying resale and wouldn’t buy retail if it was free. So I doubt that our discussions have gotten enough enrollments to concern them. It’s talked about on Facebook but again, how many of those people scream “rescind!” or “buy resale!”.

Speaking of resale, resale is a huge part of the timeshare system. There is a ton of inventory floating out there that Wyndham doesn’t want. If they did, they’d be snapping it up. They could easily go to these resale sites and start buying $1 timeshares or going to Timeshare Nation and get them for free. They don’t want them because they have enough to sell. If they clamp down on resale and start making it much more restrictive, people are going to buy resale timeshares with other systems that are more lenient. Wyndham is the biggest, so they have the most inventory out there. If people stop buying resale, more people would walk away and Wyndham and the resorts would be left holding the bag. The shareholders might have a problem with that.

Again, hold the conspiracy theories until you have something more concrete. I do believe they will eventually change something, but until you know what it is, stop trying to scare people.


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Richelle

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My new purchase with a replacement PIC is being 'verified' and this is holding up my permanent Platinum status. In fact, I now show as Temporary VIP Gold whereas BEFORE I purchased more points, I was permanent Gold. Something is going on with PIC's, the verification process on my previous purchases were almost instantaneous. Now, given that my case is different than Bendadin's tells me, as well, that they have changed the process on PIC verifications. What may have happened 3 months ago is not happening today.

Did you buy through Orlando telesales?


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Richelle

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My new purchase with a replacement PIC is being 'verified' and this is holding up my permanent Platinum status. In fact, I now show as Temporary VIP Gold whereas BEFORE I purchased more points, I was permanent Gold. Something is going on with PIC's, the verification process on my previous purchases were almost instantaneous. Now, given that my case is different than Bendadin's tells me, as well, that they have changed the process on PIC verifications. What may have happened 3 months ago is not happening today.

I’ve not heard one person say anything about their process being held up because of it. I’ve talked to a couple that have enrolled a PIC in the past month. I suspect there is something else going on that they are not telling you.


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capital city

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But you have to realize Wyndham created PIC to get the people with weeks to crossover and spend some real money to be VIP. They will absolutely not like hearing that people are actively looking for $200 weeks so they can PIC them with the absolute minimum developer purchase to get into VIP. I was really close to moving forward with the same plan but was afraid to put any faith in Wyndham to not close the door because that is what they do.





A while back, I spoke to a certain person. She said that the points transfer happens automatically. They cannot choose to take points out if the old credit pool like I wanted. So if they have no control over the automatic process, this tells me that someone made a code change to the automatic process, that is allowing the negative balances where that’s never happened before. You’re the first person I’ve seen that happen to. I don’t think it’s to far fetched to think someone broke something given previous history. Bad code is a more likely reason then Wyndham going after people who own resale contracts. There is no gaming the system going on. No loopholes. Reign in the conspiracy theories please.

Everything we are doing is above board. We don’t hide anything. Wyndham is well aware of how many PIC enrollments they have. They could easily just stop taking new enrollments if they don’t want people getting VIP using PIC. PIC has been around since the 90’s. It’s been talked about in every member directory I’ve seen. It’s no hidden secret. I doubt that PIC enrollments have “exploded” to the point where it’s got them worried. It’s talked about in TUG, but the majority of TUGGERs are big into buying resale and wouldn’t buy retail if it was free. So I doubt that our discussions have gotten enough enrollments to concern them. It’s talked about on Facebook but again, how many of those people scream “rescind!” or “buy resale!”.

Speaking of resale, resale is a huge part of the timeshare system. There is a ton of inventory floating out there that Wyndham doesn’t want. If they did, they’d be snapping it up. They could easily go to these resale sites and start buying $1 timeshares or going to Timeshare Nation and get them for free. They don’t want them because they have enough to sell. If they clamp down on resale and start making it much more restrictive, people are going to buy resale timeshares with other systems that are more lenient. Wyndham is the biggest, so they have the most inventory out there. If people stop buying resale, more people would walk away and Wyndham and the resorts would be left holding the bag. The shareholders might have a problem with that.

Again, hold the conspiracy theories until you have something more concrete. I do believe they will eventually change something, but until you know what it is, stop trying to scare people.


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dgalati

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My new purchase with a replacement PIC is being 'verified' and this is holding up my permanent Platinum status. In fact, I now show as Temporary VIP Gold whereas BEFORE I purchased more points, I was permanent Gold. Something is going on with PIC's, the verification process on my previous purchases were almost instantaneous. Now, given that my case is different than Bendadin's tells me, as well, that they have changed the process on PIC verifications. What may have happened 3 months ago is not happening today.
Like I said Wyndham is a moving target. Everything in the system is subject to change.
 

Richelle

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But you have to realize Wyndham created PIC to get the people with weeks to crossover and spend some real money to be VIP. They will absolutely not like hearing that people are actively looking for $200 weeks so they can PIC them with the absolute minimum developer purchase to get into VIP. I was really close to moving forward with the same plan but was afraid to put any faith in Wyndham to not close the door because that is what they do.

I do realize that, but your missing the second part of their motive for PIC. They are not giving anything away for free. When we deposit our week into RCI, we give that deposit to Wyndham in exchange for points. They then use that deposit to make reservations and rent them out. It’s an ongoing revenue stream. They do not care how you got the week. Just that you got them a deposit. If they are checking ownership of PICs before enrolling them, it’s because there were some sales reps in Smokey’s that were enrolling non-existent weeks. The Facebook groups are full of people who complain about Wyndham. Not a single one has mentioned anything about PIC lately. It’s only been here. I think there is more to this story then what’s being told to the owners. I still believe their issues are a result of pure ineptitude. Still, I will ask about PIC and any current or future changes. If they are unaware of any, I’ll be sure to bring these up (without names of course) and see what they say. Between this and some of the ownership transfer issues that have been happening, that whole department is a mess.


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dgalati

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I do realize that, but your missing the second part of their motive for PIC. They are not giving anything away for free. When we deposit our week into RCI, we give that deposit to Wyndham in exchange for points. They then use that deposit to make reservations and rent them out. It’s an ongoing revenue stream. They do not care how you got the week. Just that you got them a deposit. If they are checking ownership of PICs before enrolling them, it’s because there were some sales reps in Smokey’s that were enrolling non-existent weeks. The Facebook groups are full of people who complain about Wyndham. Not a single one has mentioned anything about PIC lately. It’s only been here. I think there is more to this story then what’s being told to the owners. I still believe their issues are a result of pure ineptitude. Still, I will ask about PIC and any current or future changes. If they are unaware of any, I’ll be sure to bring these up (without names of course) and see what they say. Between this and some of the ownership transfer issues that have been happening, that whole department is a mess.


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Ask why transfers take 10-12 weeks on a private sale compared to Ovations 4-5 weeks.
 

Richelle

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Ask why transfers take 10-12 weeks on a private sale compared to Ovations 4-5 weeks.

Trust me, I will. :)


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Richelle

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I should probably tell you all about my PIC issue that started back when I bought in 2008. I thought it was a one off, but after seeing these issues, I guess not. Some of you may know this story because I posted it before. Back in 2008, we enrolled my mom’s two bedroom lock out, we were told we would get 105,000 points for it. Keep in mind, I was brand new. Turns out, they enrolled it as a one bedroom instead of a two bedroom. I didn’t think to check to see if I should have gotten more then 105,000. That’s on me. Fast forward 9 years. I’m sitting with a sales rep at an Owner update. The sales rep told me that it was enrolled as a one bedroom and not a two. I was missing out on points. Of course, the only way to fix it was to buy 154,000 points, but he might get an exception and be able to “get away” with selling me only 84,000 points. This time I knew better, and said no thank you. This was during the new website launch when everything was a mess. When I got home, I called a Owner Care and they put in a ticket. Long story short, it took two months and an email to the CEO to get fixed. Again, thought it was a one off because of the whole website mess. When they fixed my PIC issue, they allowed me to split the lockout into two separate PIC weeks. Fast forward another year, when I bought to go gold. I asked them to consolidated that two bedroom lock out into a single unit, so I could enroll a three bedroom PIC. They did that, but didn’t delete the original two PICs. My sales rep did her best to get the issue resolved. I didn’t want to pay the extra program fee money on PICs I couldn’t use. It was Three weeks until QA said I was grandfathered Into the old rules and could use the extra PICs. After dealing with the PIC department the first time, I didn’t feel like doing round two, so I let it be. Fast forward another year. I transferred out my Branson contract and they FINALLY deleted the original two PICs. Luckily it was the correct ones.

So, as you can see, the PIC issues are not new. They are not common, but they are not new. I still think the issues are a result of the people doing the job and not a new policy change. I will try to find out on a Thursday if there are any changes.



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dgalati

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Trust me, I will. :)


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4-5 Weeks on Ovations from start to finish. After deed is recorded it is usually about one week before transfer is done internally by Wyndham.
 

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Happy to report that my PICs have returned.

My login screen is still occasionally popping up as expiring VIP, though, and it shouldn't be.

Owners care was really helpful during this situation. Sales, not so much.
 

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Happy to report that my PICs have returned.

My login screen is still occasionally popping up as expiring VIP, though, and it shouldn't be.

Owners care was really helpful during this situation. Sales, not so much.
Glad, you have your PIC's back in your account!!! My account is a bit better now. VIPP with no expiration date, but, I still have 3 PIC's. I'm going keep an eye on it.

Update to this post. So I go look and the expiration date is back. There must be some kind of bug going on.
 

Richelle

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We asked about any changes to the verification of PICs. Annie a Roberts said there are no changes. They are working in getting better at the process. It sounds like they are trying to get better at the process they already have. That might explain why @Cyrus24 had the issue of it being delayed. They might be taking more time to do the process instead of zipping through it.

Also, I asked about the reports from Orlando telesales that certain resorts are being rejected, even though they qualified before. In their Q&A session, she said that if a resort goes from weeks to points, that will happen. The two I heard of being rejected were Outer banks Beach Club and Williamsburg Plantation. Neither are points resorts. It sounded like them being rejected, was news to her and asked me to email her the names of the resorts. I’ll update when I have more information. I suspect Orlando is going down a bad road and starting to spread fake news, but I will find out for sure soon.




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