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My PICs disappeared overnight

bendadin

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Anyone else have this issue? I had sales ask what I would do if my PICs disappeared? It had better not have been him. I'm in Orlando now. Maybe I should skip my flight and find the answer.
 

Richelle

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I would call. There might be notes on the account as to why they were removed.

Let us know.


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55plus

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Anyone else have this issue? I had sales ask what I would do if my PICs disappeared? It had better not have been him. I'm in Orlando now. Maybe I should skip my flight and find the answer.
I never understood the "PIC" thing and how and what they do. What if your PICs did disappear? How would that affect you and your Wyndham account?
 

Richelle

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I never understood the "PIC" thing and how and what they do. What if your PICs did disappear? How would that affect you and your Wyndham account?
She loses her current VIP status. Either she goes down or loses it altogether depending on how many points she has. I believe she is platinum, so she would be bumped down to silver. There was no reason for her to lose them. Her PICs were not bought by another resort or Wyndham, so they are still eligible. I’m not sure how a sales guy would have the power to make PICs disappear, unless he called someone at corporate and said she didn’t own those weeks (which she does). This is one of many reasons I avoid sales presentations. They are vindictive.


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55plus

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Is there an incentive for Wyndham allowing owners to count PICs toward VIP status? What does Wyndham get out of it? Is this something Wyndham can terminate with a policy change. I would think/hope Wyndham would grandfather them if they were to eliminate PICs.
 

Richelle

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Is there an incentive for Wyndham allowing owners to count PICs toward VIP status? What does Wyndham get out of it? Is this something Wyndham can terminate with a policy change. I would think/hope Wyndham would grandfather them if they were to eliminate PICs.

When we deposit our PIC weeks into RCI, RCI gives us TPU (Trading Power Units). Similar to the points system. We turn around and give Wyndham that deposit in exchange for Wyndham points we can use for bookings (PIC Plus only). The owner gets cheap VIP, and Wyndham gets deposits to make reservations with and rent them out. They add to their rental revenue and bottom line. So does the owner buying points to enroll the PIC in the first place, but that's a one time deal. The exchanging TPU for Wyndham points is more long term.

PIC Plus is permanent for as long as you own the week and points contract. The only exceptions are if the resort our PIC week is at, is bought out by an ineligible system (Blue Green, Diamond, Marriott, etc), or Wyndham buys them. The owners have a say on if they will allow the resort to be bought. Of course, it's always subject to change. They could cancel it, but if they didn't grandfather people in, a lot of people would not only lose their VIP status, they would also lose a source of points to use for bookings. That wouldn't go over well with VIPs. My thought is, they would stop accepting new enrollments. Since the PIC is non-transferable when the owner passes away or gives up their ownership, it would be one less PIC in the system and eventually, the program would die out on its own. That s the best way to do it because they wouldn't be cutting off a revenue stream all at once. It would give Wyndham time to build up another revenue stream to take its place.

PIC Express is only good for five years because Wyndham cannot use those to make reservations. It gives them another method to hook people into buying points.
 

HitchHiker71

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Anyone else have this issue? I had sales ask what I would do if my PICs disappeared? It had better not have been him. I'm in Orlando now. Maybe I should skip my flight and find the answer.
I still see my two PIC contracts listed in the My Ownership area. If this is what you're referring to, then I'm not seeing the same issue.
 

dgalati

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I still see my two PIC contracts listed in the My Ownership area. If this is what you're referring to, then I'm not seeing the same issue.
Maybe somebody rubbed someone the wrong way?
 

Richelle

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I still see my two PIC contracts listed in the My Ownership area. If this is what you're referring to, then I'm not seeing the same issue.
same here.
 

Sandy VDH

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my PICs are still in place, so it might be just you.
 

Richelle

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did you call?
 

Grammarhero

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I have no desire to be VIP. However, if I did, I'd go either PIC or telesales. Because of the new Privileges program, I'm unsure if one could still be VIP with PIC or telesales. Anybody know?
 

Richelle

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I have no desire to be VIP. However, if I did, I'd go either PIC or telesales. Because of the new Privileges program, I'm unsure if one could still be VIP with PIC or telesales. Anybody know?
There is no reason to believe they would take that away from current owners. Not sure about future owners after the changes take effect. We will ask about PIC at the annual owners' meeting, and see what they say. Last year someone asked if PIC was going away and they said there were no plans to do away with PIC. We'll see if they say the same this year.
 

dagger1

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We attended a presentation at Branson three days ago and they pushed PIC heavily. It didn’t sound like PIC is going away anytime soon. They were stunned when we declined.... Or at least pretended to be...
 

bendadin

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did you call?
I called as soon as I got off the airplane. lol They have no idea why they disappeared. I did have a resale leave last night as well. I had been counting contracts for awhile but the glaring SILVER OWNER hit me before I even got there. I was pretty grumpy about my Platinum Owner showing as expiring. My husband said "Bet that you wished you were still seeing that." lol

So I had a couple of reservations eating all of my 2019 points. When I first saw that the contract had left, I had a 0 point balance. Not long after I had -400,000 (which I expected.) So even though I told them to cancel those reservations, I did it myself so now I have a bit over half million in 2019 so the negative 400k was taken care of. It was a CWA that left and I had brought in the PICs with CWA so maybe someone thought that I had gotten rid of the contract that brought in the PICs (not that it would matter as I have other direct contracts.)

I also have the second part of that piggyback and it seems that everyone can see it but me. So my account is in flux at the moment anyway.

They did see that someone was in my account this morning so they need to dig what happened and to get my PICs back. I actually need my account correct right now because I need to book a few stays (if I see anything better than what I have.) So they told me to go ahead and book what I want and they will refund me that 25% difference in the points. I do have to say how much I DO NOT LIKE silver benefits. lol I never saw silver. I went right to permanent gold, temporary platinum, and then I only saw gold when they couldn't get my account set up correctly.

I might have to fly into Austin after all.
 

cbyrne1174

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Silver is completely pointless. Most inventory 60 days out is already discounted at least 25%, except some weekends. PIC to Gold for 27k or Platinum for 65k are the only purchases that remotely make sense if VIP matches your lifestyle, but most people with that kind of money don't have that kind of availability to go on a bunch of last minute vacations. I wonder how many people finance their purchases with home equity or unsecured loans...
 

bendadin

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Well I don't seem to be making my upgrades AND they want to charge me $19 for the reservation transaction.

Funny though, I am -586 RT. lol
 

Grammarhero

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Silver is completely pointless. Most inventory 60 days out is already discounted at least 25%, except some weekends. PIC to Gold for 27k or Platinum for 65k are the only purchases that remotely make sense if VIP matches your lifestyle, but most people with that kind of money don't have that kind of availability to go on a bunch of last minute vacations. I wonder how many people finance their purchases with home equity or unsecured loans...
What are the benefit differences for Silver, gold, and platinum?
 

T-Dot-Traveller

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Someone should forward this thread to CEO Michael Brown before the AGM / sort of an FYI - if you mess with existing PIC-VIP ownership's
 

Richelle

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What are the benefit differences for Silver, gold, and platinum?
The directory has it spelled out. I agree that silver is only a minimal step up from Non-VIP and is definitely not worth spending the $60k some people pay for it. I got so much more value out of Gold with the extra time to roll points forward, unlimited reservation transaction credits, better upgrade priority, bigger discounts, etc. I may go platinum one day, but not in a hurry even with the increase. We want to do some upgrades and remodeling in our home. It may be a 2-3 years before we go Platinum. Hopefully they will still be doing Piggyback contracts by then. I am not going to buy 400,000 points in one shot just to go platinum unless the majority of it is in a piggyback contract.


http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/wyndham/plus_membersdirectory1819/index.php#/255


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cbyrne1174

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What are the benefit differences for Silver, gold, and platinum?
Silver 25% off 60 days out, unlimited HK, upgrades 30 days out, 5 guest certs, 6 months point deposit
Gold 35% off 60 days out, unlimited HK, upgrades 45 days out, 10 guest certs, 9 months point deposit, unit requests, 2 reciprocal ARP reservations other than home resort, unlimited reservation tokens
Platinum 50% off 60 days out, unlimited HK, upgrades 60 days out, 30 guest certs, 12 months point deposit, unit requests, 3 reciprocal ARP reservations other than home resort, unlimited reservation tokens


Most of the value is at 60 days out, which is hard when 2 people work full time while raising kids (work and school schedules).
 

CCdad

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I hope it’s just an oversight that gets corrected in short order.

If it drags on and both the PICs were added recently, Owner Care should be able to call up all the supporting documents to verify the qualified developer purchase and PIC enrollment forms. But be ready with your most recent statements showing that the MFs on both of your PICs are current.
 

HitchHiker71

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So I had a couple of reservations eating all of my 2019 points. When I first saw that the contract had left, I had a 0 point balance. Not long after I had -400,000 (which I expected.) So even though I told them to cancel those reservations, I did it myself so now I have a bit over half million in 2019 so the negative 400k was taken care of. It was a CWA that left and I had brought in the PICs with CWA so maybe someone thought that I had gotten rid of the contract that brought in the PICs (not that it would matter as I have other direct contracts.)
Did you actually drop the qualifying developer purchase(s) for the PIC Plus contracts? If so that’s probably why this happened. From what I’ve gathered the PIC Plus contracts are tied to the qualifying developer contract as the parent to the child PIC Plus contracts. If you drop the parent developer contract, the system will then convert the PIC Plus contracts to “Limited Membership” contracts which means the PIC Plus contracts are subject to expiration after five years just like PIC Express contracts. I learned about this a couple months ago when a close friend of mine was told he could enroll PIC properties via PIC Plus without a qualifying developer purchase for a $2395 fee. This legal verbiage is actually spelled out in the PIC Plus contract as “Limited Membership.”

Are your PIC Plus contracts both older than five years by chance? If so I think this may be what happened.

If you have another qualifying developer contract still on your account then I would imagine they would be able to re-associate your two PIC Plus contracts to a new parent contract.

I might have to fly into Austin after all.
Would love to get to see you in Austin!




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tschwa2

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Although they probably could re-associate the PIC contracts with other retail purchases if you got rid of the parent PIC contract, would they? Especially if you bought 7 million in resale they could assume you weren't planing on buying more retail without a good reason. So the question now is was the CWA that you got rid of the one associated with the PIC contacts?
 

bendadin

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Although they probably could re-associate the PIC contracts with other retail purchases if you got rid of the parent PIC contract, would they? Especially if you bought 7 million in resale they could assume you weren't planing on buying more retail without a good reason. So the question now is was the CWA that you got rid of the one associated with the PIC contacts?
No I got rid of a resale CWA so it couldn't have brought in the PICs if it wanted to. But I had that huge mess with the rescission and people building the account and tearing down the account. It took five weeks to get it as close to correct as it ever came. So maybe they attached the PICs to the resale CWA as an oversight. Or it said that it came in with CWA and someone just dropped them without actually looking at the contract numbers.

So someone might be able to chime in here? What happens if you trade a contract that brought in PICs? Will it make the PICs drop out? That isn't what happened here but it could easily happen to somebody if that is the case.

BTW, I HATE this silver ownership thing.
 
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