• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

my new home is going to be a barn

Panina

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
6,781
Reaction score
9,968
Points
499
Location
Florida
Resorts Owned
Hgvc Anderson, Blue Ride Village Resort
sorry, folks, I seem to be on the shrink's couch this morning, but, dang, this is soooo therapeutic! partly why I am moving to camp and a barn, it will be so good for me, body, mind and spirit.

I think that I am simply much more of a free spirit than either my brother or sister. It's like they decide what is best for me, whether I like it or not! It's very strange, as they haven't been much involved in my adult life, so oversteps are extra offensive to me. gee, get to know me, why don't you??

I'm not sure it's fear, I think for them it is strong adherence to some traditional ways and how dare I step outside that (sis told me that my decision to not have children was 'going against society', in case that sheds light). She also has never stopped telling me she hates my house and I should move down to live near her (no, that is not ever happening, never). She seems to have always wanted to get control of me. I don't get it.

She will travel 1200 miles to "help" her 30ish oldest son look for apartments, so, it's not just me she tries to grab the wheel from. I am absolutely certain that he is capable of finding his own place to live and knows what he wants, and where. I guess she's like Marie from Everybody Loves Raymond. Smarmy, nasty tone delivered in, of course I'm right and you are wrong...

She also continues to harp on her youngest, her only daughter, about giving her grandkids. every time she does that in front of me, I ask why she isn't hounding her oldest kid about that. Nope, just the girl... I guess she fears another female "going against society..." ??? Her daughter, in fact, does not want kids. Maybe she fears her kid turning out like Aunt Geekette! oh, the horrors! A woman doing the career thing and getting her own financial independence on her own terms, finding her own happiness vs the time worn plan in sis' pocket. Shout out for dear Amy. Go, Girl, Go!

They are unable to stop this train! At whatever point I tell them, I'll be quite far into this. My brother has his mail delivered here, so it wouldn't be cool to vacate completely without telling him. I remain a non-jerk no matter how much jerky crap they pull on me. I am not interested in anything they have to say about it, I will have my answers to their inevitable questions ready to go. I expect ridicule and sarcasm from them and won't be taking the bait. My mother, I'm not sure, I think her gut feel will be happiness for me, tinged with a little fear. For her, I will take pictures and print them to send her big Proof that I'm ok.
Fear is what drives many people from doing things and not doing things. What is the worst thing that can happen if a mistake is made? you just create a new plan. From what I read you thought it out financially and emotionally.

Those who support you are wonderful, those who don’t you planned already not to take the bait as I have. I just cut the conversation short. If I keep hearing , be careful, your rushing, where you are going there are only very old men, maybe you should stay it’s not so bad with him, etc. etc, etc., my niceness and patience can run its course. I actually told a family member today if you cannot support me please say nothing as it doesn’t help and won’t change my mind.
 

sue1947

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,748
Reaction score
1,193
Points
523
Location
Seattle
Resorts Owned
Worldmark and VI
Remember the personality tests that were big back in the 90's? It seems all businesses/organizations were doing them to help with team building. One that I took clarified things a great deal for me. I ended up in the group that was 10% of the population that questioned why for everything. My colleagues were mostly in the majority group that liked to be told what to do; needed rules etc; the worker bees. Both types are needed. It helped me understand people who just couldn't imagine any other way to do things. It's a little bit of fear of the unknown and a lack of imagination of how anything could be different, but mostly just how they are. You can't change them so just accept. Your sibs seem to also have a strong case of moralizing thrown in so I'm impressed that you still maintain contact.
Sounds like your sister (and possibly brother) just won't ever understand so accept them as they are and focus on your niece and nephew who sound like they could use a good role model of somebody going their own way. I'd be pretty tempted to just send your sister a change of address notice and save the full explanation for the niece and nephew.

I've had to reinvent myself a couple of times, mostly around jobs that no longer fit so not as life changing as what you are doing. I tend to be someone who talks it all out; discussing with people to get various takes on things or different ideas of things I might not have thought of. In each case, it was something unexpected that somebody mentioned that sparked the idea that helped me move forward. You have a solid basis as a start, but the details require flexibility as you figure out what will work or how you want things. I hope you continue to use us as a sounding board. You've gotten some great ideas of things to think about and I hope we can continue to offer support and other ideas along the way.

Sue
 

WinniWoman

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2010
Messages
10,762
Reaction score
7,057
Points
749
Location
The Weirs, New Hampshire
Resorts Owned
Innseason Pollard Brook
platting would be a problem. a big repeated problem. I could have a dozen buildings there in 5 years. So could other residents.

I'm not leasing, I don't pay to live there. I pay for what I live in at my own expense. Which I will own, so no rent or mortgage on that.

Truly a weird situation, but, probably not the weirdest.


But that is similar to our situation. We own the house. No rent or mortgage either. We pay taxes on the house. We pay all the expenses and repairs and improvements of the house. But we do not own the lot and do not pay to have our house on it. Right now the builder owns the lots but as soon as he is done with the rest of the homes he is building on the other lots, all the lots transfer to the HOA which, of course, consists of all the homeowners! Then the HOA will own the lots. (OK- well that part is not like your situation as your friend will always own the land).
 

PigsDad

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Messages
10,072
Reaction score
7,076
Points
898
Location
Colorado and SW Florida
Resorts Owned
HGVC Elite: SeaWorld, Surf Club, Charter Club, Valdoro
platting would be a problem. a big repeated problem. I could have a dozen buildings there in 5 years. So could other residents.

I'm not leasing, I don't pay to live there. I pay for what I live in at my own expense. Which I will own, so no rent or mortgage on that.

Truly a weird situation, but, probably not the weirdest.
It does indeed sound like a very unique situation. Not sure if this has come up before (I haven't read every post), but you say that you and the other potential residents do not pay rent / have leases, but there will be improvements / buildings to the land over the years. Wouldn't those improvements raise the assessed property value, and in turn have the potential to hike the property taxes for this land? I know around here, after a property has been improved, the taxes go up significantly.

Is the land owner prepared to cover those expenses, or will the property taxes be a shared expense for all the residents? If shared, how will they be divided? Seems like this could be a potential issue down the road if there are no formal agreements / leases in place. Just wondering if this has been discussed.

Kurt
 

nerodog

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
2,442
Reaction score
1,574
Points
523
Location
Portugal
I don't have a problem being assertive!!! I take after my dad, they do not, they are reactive like my mother. It's not always easy to tell when I am angry but it is clear when I am serious and to back off. When they yell something ridiculous, I like to go to silent stare as the piece of stupidity hangs in the air. yes, stupid birth order. youngest and dumbest got stuck on me when I was a tot and they will not ever clear their lens in their view of me. Do other adults continue to refer to younger siblings as "baby sister"? It has always felt disrespectful as I am nobody's baby.

Peace is good, but not necessary. I have upset many apple carts in the work place because I always wanted the right thing to be done, not the easy or cheap thing. It was good training for the times I did have to be near sibs. Dad told me I could be anything I wanted to be, do anything I wanted to do. He was right (and it was the right message to deliver to someone like me, while he could have instead tried to steer me to the big three - teacher, nurse, secretary). He didn't tell me, however, how much crap I would end up taking for marching to the beat of my own drummer.

I like to think that my sibs are jealous that they are not as smart as I am ; ) nor as willing to explore whatever I want to explore. My brother came to a dance competition, remarked that it was 'selling sex'. ???? now I'm a whore?? says more about him than me.... I stupidly bought tics for my sis when she was going to be in town; she came late, didn't stay long enough to see me dance. I don't need these people and they clearly have no use for me. I don't want them anywhere near my new life. With a po box address, that's easy.
Great !! Mediation, dealing with conflict...it can be an artform. Glad to read and hear !!!! No doubt, it will work out. :)
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,777
Reaction score
5,531
Points
848
Fear is what drives many people from doing things and not doing things. What is the worst thing that can happen if a mistake is made? you just create a new plan. From what I read you thought it out financially and emotionally.

Those who support you are wonderful, those who don’t you planned already not to take the bait as I have. I just cut the conversation short. If I keep hearing , be careful, your rushing, where you are going there are only very old men, maybe you should stay it’s not so bad with him, etc. etc, etc., my niceness and patience can run its course. I actually told a family member today if you cannot support me please say nothing as it doesn’t help and won’t change my mind.
YES, so much of this, YEEESSSS!!!

"What is the worst thing that can happen if a mistake is made? you just create a new plan. "
Yeah, I don't get how that's not obvious to people?? It's what I've done all my life, since hardly anything is ever perfect and you make changes. I think many people fear change, and this fear limits them from living their fullest life. I saw people stay in jobs they hated so they didn't have to start new somewhere else. Ugh, Why??? Not everyone is wired the same, I guess... When I got divorced, once he took what he wanted and left, I craved change. Moved stuff from room to room and made My Place. Immediately. perhaps others would have sat in the middle of an empty room and cried about being alone? Was not on the menu whatsoever.

YES:
"....my niceness and patience can run its course. I actually told a family member today if you cannot support me please say nothing as it doesn’t help and won’t change my mind."

I also have what I call a long fuse, try to be nice and polite as well. There is only so much smack I'll put up with. It's like the Roadhouse movie with dreamy Patrick Swayze: be nice until it's time to not be nice. I am lucky to have my father's ability to take my voice very low and very slow yet deliver my message. I go with slow because it becomes clear that I am annoyed, and it seems they are not hearing me. Low voice means they have to want to hear it.

Another line I might have learned here at tug: having an opinion doesn't mean you have a say.
gets quiet for a beat while they think about that and formulate response.

I use that when I hear "you should....", my sister's specialty...

I guess I always thought the role of being supportive was to listen, and ask follow up questions to see if they have thought through things. I like "what will you do about ...." vs plant ideas like "but that will be ....!" nope. doesn't matter what I think, it is their problem to air and address. I'm a sounding board. If you want my opinion, you have to ask. I am otherwise onboard with your chosen direction.

I have zero standing to tell anyone what to do, and I resent it when people try to tell me what to do, or what to fear. I tend to be a very literal person, so actual words and tone do matter to me. I can be sensitive, so I learned early to grow a hard shell and keep rolling. I learned it, but hardly perfect in practicing it.
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,777
Reaction score
5,531
Points
848
It does indeed sound like a very unique situation. Not sure if this has come up before (I haven't read every post), but you say that you and the other potential residents do not pay rent / have leases, but there will be improvements / buildings to the land over the years. Wouldn't those improvements raise the assessed property value, and in turn have the potential to hike the property taxes for this land? I know around here, after a property has been improved, the taxes go up significantly.

Is the land owner prepared to cover those expenses, or will the property taxes be a shared expense for all the residents? If shared, how will they be divided? Seems like this could be a potential issue down the road if there are no formal agreements / leases in place. Just wondering if this has been discussed.

Kurt
I'll see if I can be clearer, please poke holes in what hits you wrong:

Will not pay rent, will not have lease. whatever my financial arrangement with my dwelling is my business (for example, mortgage, insurance; I will have neither)

Yes, we all will be putting up buildings all through time, a minimum of whatever we will live in, but also camp units to rent out and no-revenue "features" (like a shower house or rock wall, etc). Nobody has to put up rentals, they could live there free and toil at what they like, part of camp or their own interest (I'll say glass blower, no real need on camp, but could do there and sell to anyone, including camp; there will be a gift shop, but I don't know what cut for camp is yet).

She has paid for everything so far, and we're still talking about shared infrastructure, like gravel road. I said I would take first shift on that, as I'm first in building something major and it is first stop off the main road and leads to my garage. She has been driving on mud and rocks and swamp through her original entrance and it is likely to remain thus. I want gravel, I'll pay for gravel... I will be near 'main parking' so it helps the effort, but she's the one that will pay for all the parking lot gravel. Whoever puts up a home past mine and wants a road gets the next leg of gravel. I don't have a truck, others do, so this is a matter of suiting myself, with my own definition of 'critical infrastructure'.

Wells, septic, energy are on the dweller, pay for what you want. She doesn't want to be on grid, nor do I, but the third was talking about running a line. His doing that has zero to do with me, unless I wanted to tie in and share that bill with him. We could go in together on wells or septic, but that can get tricky with county rules. I'm happy to pay for my own and keep them maintained. There is no limit to how many of those we can have, but there will be a limit on how many bedrooms can contribute to that size septic system, but so far looks like any number of dwellings could contribute to that bedroom count.

Which brings me to, what constitutes a bedroom? Here, it is a room with a closet and a window, entrance rooms excepted. I'm sorry, glampers, I will not be building closets in the cabins... but there could be alcoves hidden by curtains if those don't trigger anything...

Yes, property taxes will raise from the bare land she had. She will cover those herself, it's part of collecting 50% from rentals (my building, her land; I am totally good with that and Simple).

While it's not a co op, it is quite co op like. When I grow food, camp will buy some. She is excited that her first 2 residents want to farm - she hates it, very happy to have it not her problem. Must be organic, one of the very few rules she has.

When camp makes money, if I helped, I'll make some money. I have been warned that it will not be much, but that's ok. To me, it is more important to keep camp maintained so we can continue to make money. Whatever just happened to make money, costs will be involved.

Yes, I'll need protections to be sure I cannot be tossed out on my ear. But I will be instrumental to its success, so that would be stupid!

At this point, I am wanting to build the biggest barn that my budget will allow, much less than I'll get out of this home and still keep 2 years of expenses in savings, 2 years in cash. If I own the event hall, and I can fill it, this is going to work out really well. I would like to move from barn within 2 years, but, maybe that won't happen. So I'll build what I can live in forever more, in case that's how things go. In that case, I would be skating on share of prop taxes since there would be no revenue from my home, I live there free.

If I hadn't known this lady since teen years, I would be extremely wary. But Stacey and I are much alike, neither of us seeking to make millions, just playing around at building it so they come. To me, it's all her risk. Living in that barn for 2 years saves me a ton of money, I could walk away at that point having wrung value from it and yet pocket rental proceeds after I leave.
The walk away has finer points to discuss.
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,777
Reaction score
5,531
Points
848
But that is similar to our situation. We own the house. No rent or mortgage either. We pay taxes on the house. We pay all the expenses and repairs and improvements of the house. But we do not own the lot and do not pay to have our house on it. Right now the builder owns the lots but as soon as he is done with the rest of the homes he is building on the other lots, all the lots transfer to the HOA which, of course, consists of all the homeowners! Then the HOA will own the lots. (OK- well that part is not like your situation as your friend will always own the land).
Incredibly similar! She is in fact the developer and HOA! The same "you build it, you maintain it" situation, final say on "the rules".
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,777
Reaction score
5,531
Points
848
Remember the personality tests that were big back in the 90's? It seems all businesses/organizations were doing them to help with team building. One that I took clarified things a great deal for me. I ended up in the group that was 10% of the population that questioned why for everything. My colleagues were mostly in the majority group that liked to be told what to do; needed rules etc; the worker bees. Both types are needed. It helped me understand people who just couldn't imagine any other way to do things. It's a little bit of fear of the unknown and a lack of imagination of how anything could be different, but mostly just how they are. You can't change them so just accept. Your sibs seem to also have a strong case of moralizing thrown in so I'm impressed that you still maintain contact.
Sounds like your sister (and possibly brother) just won't ever understand so accept them as they are and focus on your niece and nephew who sound like they could use a good role model of somebody going their own way. I'd be pretty tempted to just send your sister a change of address notice and save the full explanation for the niece and nephew.

I've had to reinvent myself a couple of times, mostly around jobs that no longer fit so not as life changing as what you are doing. I tend to be someone who talks it all out; discussing with people to get various takes on things or different ideas of things I might not have thought of. In each case, it was something unexpected that somebody mentioned that sparked the idea that helped me move forward. You have a solid basis as a start, but the details require flexibility as you figure out what will work or how you want things. I hope you continue to use us as a sounding board. You've gotten some great ideas of things to think about and I hope we can continue to offer support and other ideas along the way.

Sue
Yes, we are all wired differently, and there is a place for all types of wiring. I guess I don't understand why my sibs are jerks to me. I will never know, but "it's them, not me". My first instinct is not to make fun of someone or bring that danged condescension, like I am the only one with life's answers... I can't change them, and my control is only in what I share and how I respond.

you won't be able to stop my blathering on!! tuggers are a great bunch because we are all so different yet the human experience often has us intersecting or parallelling with tracks others are on....

It helps me to write things. Always has, just not so much on 3 ring paper any more (but I do have that around as well!) For whatever reason, it always leads to some thought that had otherwise eluded me but shows up and opens a door.

In this endeavor, I'm also hoping that I'll be hearing ideas for unique glampsites. While I don't necessarily think that my idea tank will ever go empty, it's not about me, it's about people coming to camp and enjoying themselves.

I will always be interested in meeting tuggers and getting feedback. We are all into finer accommodations via ts, but I also don't mind hearing "my daughter would love this!" or "here's a problem" .... it's not personal, just business, always room for improvement. Come for a stay, drop by cuz you're around, plan to teach a class, whatever... I have pencilled in October Organic Thanksgiving inaugural in Oct 2021... timesharers do plan ahead... and I am planning to have a massive harvest.
 

bizaro86

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
3,664
Reaction score
2,489
Points
598
Location
Calgary, AB, Canada
Sounds very exciting! I always love unique business ideas, and this sounds great. I always think it's too bad when family isn't supportive. I think there's a balance there where, "have you thought of XX" can be helpful, but closed minds have a way of being negative instead of constructive.

My only concern would be around ownership of your buildings. Once you build something on land you don't own, I think your friend owns it unless you have something on paper that says otherwise (life lease, for example). That isn't a problem as long as everyone gets along, and it sounds like you all do. But sometimes weird things happen (death, aging, dementia, mental illness, physical illness, etc). It would be terrible if something happened to your friend (say bankruptcy after expensive medical bills or something) and you lost your buildings because of it. That wouldn't be anyone's fault, but is possible, so makes sense to be protected.

Please post as much detail on your build as possible/comfortable. I know I'm very interested in following along, and am curious about how much everything costs, how long it takes, the problems, victories, etc. We are all rooting for you and want to follow along vicariously.
 
Last edited:

bizaro86

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
3,664
Reaction score
2,489
Points
598
Location
Calgary, AB, Canada
Also, one idea for getting revenue going quickly might be some sort of tented camp style dwellings. We stayed in these in Africa and they were really neat. Basically a wooden platform with canvas tent over top. The luxury ones had full bathrooms inside, but that probably wouldn't be necessary initially.

Might also be able to get a deal on a wooden platform from the guy doing the barn as an add-on. Having some revenue coming in quick would be good, and would help you learn what works and what doesn't. Plus get some positive feedback on your airbnb profile.
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,777
Reaction score
5,531
Points
848
Sounds very exciting! I always love unique business ideas, and this sounds great. I always think it's too bad when family isn't supportive. I think there's a balance there where, "have you thought of XX" can be helpful, but closed minds have a way of being negative instead of constructive.

My only concern would be around ownership of your buildings. Once you build something on land you don't own, I think your friend owns it unless you have something on paper that says otherwise (life lease, for example). That isn't a problem as long as everyone gets along, and it sounds like you all do. But sometimes weird things happen (death, aging, dementia, mental illness, physical illness, etc). It would be terrible if something happened to your friend (say bankruptcy after expensive medical bills or something) and you lost your buildings because of it. That wouldn't be anyone's fault, but is possible, so makes sense to be protected.

Please post as much detail on your build as possible/comfortable. I know I'm very interested in following along, and am curious about how much everything costs, how long it takes, the problems, victories, etc. We are all rooting for you and want to follow along vicariously.
Thank you so much! It's fun that others are into this, too! Definitely an unusual concept. At first I thought it was a co op, but she definitely did not like that term, it is Camp.

Definitely, what I build on her land, I do not own, cannot take it with me. Ability to stay until my death is the protection, life lease is another good term I hadn't known; thank you!

Indeed, crap can and does happen. It helps that her son and his wife are within a couple hours, and this land is his legacy. he got married there early this year (I'm glad they got wedding and honeymoon before pandemic). I would expect he would cover his mother's bills if she could no longer, I don't see him selling camp to solve a (relatively) short term problem. But, people do what people do. Makes me all the more interested to get events going at barn as soon as I move out and morph it to social center, I will be keenly tracking my payback. Whenever I leave, regardless of circumstances, what I'll have is in my bank account and the storage container. I am planning to work my butt off those first 2 years to make as much money as possible, mostly through farming, floral greenhouse, and artsy craftsy stuff. Probably pop a small kit cabin on the hill by main camp as soon as she's ready for paid guests, just to get something of mine onto AirBnB along with her sites. dinky kits can be $5k, not counting foundation. It's not a lot of rental nights to break even.

The costs are going to be interesting on barn build, as it will be cash, and there are often discounts for that. Plus, right now, there is obviously unemployment. I look forward to "paying a guy" vs paying a big company. The logging trucks have not been moving, and they are an indication of how things are going down there. I could be arriving at the perfect time to finally do my part of stimulating an economy where construction workers need the jobs, big or small.
We think footer will be about $2k, just to put some number on it, as it will be labor intensive. It will be unclear until I'm in it how much my own body can do, but there will be paid workers. I am not attempting heroics as I (thankfully) do know my limits. Could be cement guy is the big cost on that. Putting in the plywood floor, tho, I can do that! I guessed $5k frame lumber and she said that was way too high, unless I go through Lowe's or similar, so I'm happy with that! She has done enough business with our neighbor mill to have good intel on wood cost.

I want a steel roof, even tho it is the most expensive. For me, it's like an insurance policy for everything under it. Plus, a friend that used to sail around the world by herself told me that if you want to do rain catchment, the roof must be steel. I love the red roof but will keep it natural silver to not add a potential contaminant to the water run off (until I find people that know about such things that tell me it's not an issue, the color doesn't leach). Early on, I found mention of estimating $9/ft cost on that, but today found much better than that at Lowe's site. Hopefully, I can source it from an independent for even less. the roof cost is going to have a lot to do with final dimensions I settle on. Recommended clapboard siding, haven't started pricing that.

Someone told me about barngeek.com I was pretty sure I'd seen that site before but much of it is 'buy these books and plans from me' so not a site I have frequented. She suggested it recently so I went back. Now, there is a picture of frame for a 40'x60' gambrel with u-shape loft. dang, that would do everything I could ever need under a roof.... but, come on, do I "need" that much space? Well, if I can stay under my $30k budget, heck yeah!

It turns out that barns are not as expensive as I thought. Of course, it's only the shell, interior will be piecemeal as I get to it and develop my spaces.

This ends up being a little weird for me, as I really just thought about living there, but now that I've decided on what to start life there in, it is into cost vs benefit, how would I develop streams of revenue.... If I build too much barn, I might not ever fill it. If I build too little, some events would be too crammed. There's a balance, and I have decided that my budget will get the final say. There is no guarantee that I will ever get any paying event there, so, I build it to use as a home, and have to be ok with that sunk cost that relieves me of monthly costs here.
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,777
Reaction score
5,531
Points
848
Also, one idea for getting revenue going quickly might be some sort of tented camp style dwellings. We stayed in these in Africa and they were really neat. Basically a wooden platform with canvas tent over top. The luxury ones had full bathrooms inside, but that probably wouldn't be necessary initially.

Might also be able to get a deal on a wooden platform from the guy doing the barn as an add-on. Having some revenue coming in quick would be good, and would help you learn what works and what doesn't. Plus get some positive feedback on your airbnb profile.

Would this happen to be "a wall tent"? She has a wall tent, I had not heard of them before, and remember looking them up and sounds similar? Since she is interested in doing dwellings from around the world, I wonder if it could be same thing?? She also has a Bedouin tent to put up. we talked about foundation for that recently, as she definitely wants sand on top of whatever foundation. I thought sand on deck platform would not work, but might put many inches of it on top of a gravel platform. She wants a tipi but not liking the costs, so we're going to try our own prototype in smaller scale. The yurt did indeed come from Mongolia, so she is trying to stay true to origin as well, when it's not crazy money.

She taught English around the world and is interested in bringing international flavor. Please do tell me about other cool places you've stayed! If we had water sufficient for it, I'd do a Fiji -type hut on stilts over water... I was going to build a dome-ish thing and cob it, just because it sounds like fun.... It's for my friend, naming it Becky's Butterfly Bungalow, as she loves butterflies and I expect to make that site a butterfly attractor.

Keep it coming!!!

We did talk about making some normal tent sites - bring your own gear or rent our box of everything you need. I worked for a canoe outfitter once upon a time, so I'd be fine with running inventory and maintenance of 'camp kits', figure out where we air them out when someone gets rained on. Aside from getting around to making new cleared sites, she thought people could take the tent and set up anywhere. likely only for seasoned wilderness campers.... any site cleared for tents now is still cleared for other structure later, so I think it is well worth doing. Fire rings will be permanent, not the kind of thing you stick in a kit and trust randos not to burn something down....

She is quite the carpenter, did all the decking for yurt and recently extended it to accommodate the back door of it. I am going to learn a lot from her! Her "shed" is pretty cool, she hinged a back flap so a long piece of wood hangs out the back as it meets circ saw. wonderful for extra light and breeze, too. If she weren't clever and capable, there is no way I would have been anything but a guest....

I am at the mercy of her decision as to when to open to guests. It looks like she is thinking spring so my gut feel is summer ; ) I think she could have campers now, but, she doesn't feel ready, and I accept that answer.

Yurt is first ready. these pics are from November (white shelves sitting there are inside now and have my first whack art via paint...), me on main yurt deck would be me in kitchen standing where the bistro dining set is now. I really like the clear ceiling and helping her put it up, oh heck yeah, I can do that!

If you drove by on the road, you would be able to see the yurt just like the first pic. totally intentional, great strategy!
 

Attachments

  • yurt1.jpeg
    yurt1.jpeg
    139.9 KB · Views: 27
  • under roof1.JPG
    under roof1.JPG
    117.9 KB · Views: 27

bizaro86

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
3,664
Reaction score
2,489
Points
598
Location
Calgary, AB, Canada
Yes, they were basically wall tents on a platform with a bed inside.

It also might be worth thinking about activities. I know personally, I have an emotional response to the word "camp" based on memories of summer camp as a kid. Maybe something like a zip line or archery area? (check with insurance/get waivers)
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,777
Reaction score
5,531
Points
848
QUOTE="bizaro86, post: 2489261, member: 26197"]
Yes, they were basically wall tents on a platform with a bed inside.

It also might be worth thinking about activities. I know personally, I have an emotional response to the word "camp" based on memories of summer camp as a kid. Maybe something like a zip line or archery area? (check with insurance/get waivers)
[/QUOTE]
Archery was definitely on my radar! I thought a Frisbee golf course would be easy to put up. Both need a sizeable clearing, which doesn't exist yet.

I never went to camp and not sure what her plans were for recreation. I am not sure how much of traditional camp to read into that word choice. arts and crafts, for sure. Forget swimming, tho.

We're still planning our basics, she's been primitive living for a long while.
 

sue1947

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,748
Reaction score
1,193
Points
523
Location
Seattle
Resorts Owned
Worldmark and VI
The whole camp thing got my mind rolling. I think that is a good marketing tool and keeps expectations rustic while you get things built. It should be easy to put up a volleyball/badminton net, horseshoe pit, etc plus a fire pit with seating around for people to gather in the evening. I think the latter would be a real selling point.
Back in college, I was a camp counselor and the last one included a week for adults. We thought they would come and play, but all they wanted to do was play pinochle. They were middle aged women who had busy lives and wanted to sit and relax. So we did. We played cards every day for a week, but mostly talked and laughed and it was the highlight of the summer for me. So perhaps in your barn, provide an area where you can set up card tables for rainy day activities; board games or maybe space for hobbyist (quilting, knitting or writers retreats). Or maybe talks/demonstrations about organic gardening or other skills of you and your neighbors. Maybe a covered porch area where people could gather to chat. Maybe a storage area that can be cleared but it should have a window and, ideally, access to a bathroom (your lack of plumbing means this might be a port a potty or a later addition). Basically, the cabins will provide a place to stay, but if you can also provide a few extras like a place to gather, you can attract small groups that might want to get away together. I think, down the line, having a place to also sell your produce and maybe some muffins/coffee/hot chocolate. When you are building your barn, you might think ahead to a room with a small kitchen at one end + counter to do cooking demos like a harvest festival; or what to do with the produce you are selling (pumpkin bread/muffins etc). Maybe this is the living quarters you eventually vacate or an addition with the needed plumbing, but planning ahead for it when building the original barn might make things easier down the road.

The big problem will be attracting customers in the off season. A very good option for spring and fall is birding. There was a survey done 12-15 years ago of all the activities/sports and birding brought the most money into a community. And you don't need any infrastructure. Birders will go to other places to see birds they can't see where they live so they are a client base for your cabins. They get up early so no late night partying, they don't expect or need anything fancy for lodging. While you are working on building things up, keep an eye out for what birds you see. A pair of binoculars will help and grab a local bird book. Contact the nearest Audubon group. Their websites usually include good birding spots; see if your spot in near one of them or perhaps invite them out for a field trip. You might get some money coming in from selling some muffins/fruit/produce/coffee. A couple of field trips while you are building might provide some of your first customers when the lodging is available. Here are a couple of Audubon groups without knowing anything about NC: https://www.emasnc.org is the Asheville Audubon and this one is also in the area: https://highcountryaudubon.org
The best thing about marketing to birders is the prime time is spring and fall. Spring migration, in particular, is April and May when birds are heading north with their bright new attractive plumage and then they head back south in Sept and Oct. I've based quite a bit of my travel around birding spots and it sounds like your property would be an ideal one; it's just figuring out how to make the most of it.

Sue
 

sue1947

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,748
Reaction score
1,193
Points
523
Location
Seattle
Resorts Owned
Worldmark and VI
Well, I went for a walk and thought of more stuff to add to the mix; I'm really enjoying this...

Tents: the issue with tents on platforms is keeping the bugs and critters out. If the folks inside have food (and they will), it won't be just mice coming to visit. We had bears, porcupines, raccoons were the worst and then there are those pesky squirrels which are just rats with a better PR system (I almost forgot about the skunks). They can do a lot of damage. So the tent needs to be tight and you need a critter proof container for folks to store any scented items in. Yurts might be a better option for this reason.
I hiked into a backcountry spot in the Sierras (Bearpaw Camp). The picture on the website shows the tents. Bedding was included and it was very comfortable. They had flush toilets and showers. I think the showers were limited in when and how long. I think they had a boiler they would fire up and then about an hour later, we could take very short showers. It was all explained and we understood the limitations and were happy to have it. So somehow, they hooked up the water to flush the toilets so probably a septic system someplace and I'm sure it was untreated water. The cabins had comfortable mattresses, but nowhere to sit. There was a separate building where meals were served with comfortable chairs on the porch and that was a big plus. Whatever you do for the day, at some point, you just want to sit and relax which will also encourage people to remember it as a relaxing place and want to come back.
Yosemite has tent cabins as well at Curry Village. If you compare the cost of the tents vs cabins, the cabins with bath are 125% more and the cabins without bath are 50% more. In your case, without the attraction of a Yosemite, I suspect you could triple the amount you charge for a cabin with bath vs a tent. It might be cost effective to go in with your neighbor now and get plumbing run to at least put in a shower house for the lodging guests and a bathroom in your barn. https://www.nationalparkreservations.com/lodge/yosemite-curry-village/rooms/#property-header-menu
OR how about trailers. Fixing up old trailers is pretty popular and is something you could move onto the property and move around as needed. They could provide a way to have a kitchen and bath option without plumbing and therefor bring in much higher revenue. You'd just have to figure out how to deal with the wastewater. Here's the first thing on a google search as a sample: Trailer hotels
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,777
Reaction score
5,531
Points
848
Outstanding, Sue! keep it coming!!

Some of these are already planned, some are great ideas to add to the list! Some, we have already been enjoying, as she's been living there over a year now, and the nature of camp evolution required fire ring and sit around space, plus she has a couple grills, propane fridge... she has now done 2 outside kitchens. Each site will have their own decking, outdoor kitchen, fire ring, seating. we are trying to get day use first, and a quick better bathroom that is winter proof. A larger showerhouse is planned but we need to figure out how well on demand hot works, etc. I expect to rig plenty of crude outdoor showers for tent sites. It's not hard to make composting toilets that actually are not gross, and there are portable septic tanks that can be hidden beneath facility. Water tanks can support cabin features. Each site should have their own toileting and showering, tho main camp features will be better. Until I'm there and acquainting myself with all the rules of running water and septic pipes, I'm thinking more of portable solutions that are backup in case of whatever ; ) "Roughing It" can be too rough, I don't want to do that to people, but it's unlikely I would plumb many cabins. we'll see. I like water, I'll do it if feasible. the cabin culdesac will also have a big screen room large enough to host multiple families eating dinner. I expect various covered seating elsewhere around camp, but I seem to be the only one that cares about screens ; ) I'm not fond of bugs, but it's not bad there. I kind of want cabins for being enclosed plus use of windows with screens. I am certain that there will be some guests wary of being outside, so, I want them to be comfortable and not scared that a bear will get them. It is difficult to sleep when scared or uncomfortable...

We did think about field trips, reaching out to scouts and other children's programs. My host has a classroom planned, I have no interest in hosting anything in my barn until I don't live in the barn (fellow residents, friends and family excepted). I can get a little weird about strangers in my personal living space. I may change my mind as I get acclimated. I am still determining my own living spaces, but it will be a large kitchen at the back that will get larger when it becomes Party Barn in order to serve A Party. Definitely a huge island with bar seating. Figuring out how to arrange my current interests and tool benches, storage, other work space, etc. is proving to be a difficult task! Thank you for nudging me to consider having an extra couple people in my work spaces with me, but I can't wrap my head around demos in my home yet. we'll see. I will have a massive cedar sewing room, and do plan to have people in there as it's an income source, but not really 'part of the tour', if you will. I was indeed going to sell prepared foods, but not sure on regs so maybe not. I really don't want to be involved with canning. Dehydrating, yes! I will also be planting and selling herb plants, fresh picked, dried... and may get into soap making. I'd like to try pottery .... I'm hoping a blacksmith takes up residence, a tanner would be handy...

I do have a great round dining table which is for eating and card playing (one of the first gifts I took down was a fresh deck of cards!), and the U loft of barn is going to allow for a really great central area. I will likely host a Thanksgiving in October 2021 there with our first major harvest. It's easy to rent tables and chairs, my card table and chairs expired long ago... Our Amish neighbor has 12 kids! I'd like a pool table and hang Mom's stained glass lamps over it and with adjoining seating.

We have several outdoor spaces already happening, including several bonfire pits, some gardens and benches, the mound garden, a little produce "shop" at the entrance (will eventually contain stuff made at camp and be much larger)... We started working on a path to a spring walk, I want rock walls, paths, whatever we can do with lighting... did some rock fortification around some minor waterfalls. there are the ruins of an old house that we plan to turn into a hangout. There is enough foundation to be a wall worth preserving and some of the chimney, but have to get a caved-in part removed by someone with expertise or the right plan... perfect for ghost stories!

eventually I'll have a large outdoor kitchen/entertainment area, including pizza oven and a lot of seating of various types. I hope to learn that oven well enough to do the multiple bread loves and muffins. Solar is expensive so full fledged oven unlikely.

I am finding more on costs of well + septic and going ahead with that. I asked myself, why work your butt off all these years to do without modern amenities?? running it everywhere has limits but I want real kitchen and bathroom in the barn, and can plumb for future bathrooms. At a minimum, one full bath on ground floor, another full one plumbed directly above that one. I don't know the septic rules there yet, but I am hearing $3k, so not nearly as scary as I thought... well could be about the same. I'm not going to cheap out on my own basic comforts.

I have always liked games, I have packed 2 tubs already, runs the gamut, my outdoor stuff is up with my tents and canopies and so forth. Her classroom is supposed to also support arts and crafts and library, and supposed to have outdoor classroom as well. I am unable to picture her classroom/library, so will find out when it's built!

I like porches, will eventually have a wrap around, might start with gazebos (eventual very large one painted white for weddings, have the reception in the party barn). It is highly likely that I will be a rocking chair collector.... she likes building decks, I like arbors and trellises, bird baths, gazebos, pergolas.... there will indeed be many places to relax...

Birding is a natural, but I hadn't thought of it for groups! I have been taking my bird and tree books with me! These are exactly the kind of people I'd like to show up and hang out with me at my Sunrise Coffee Bar! Eventually some of that will be fully enclosed but open air to start, partial roof.

wow, so much more to think about... I just need to get there and dig in...
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,777
Reaction score
5,531
Points
848
Awesome, Sue! Great links!

I love that you're having as much fun with it as I am! I guess you see why I am so drawn to go build a fun place to live and "work".

Definitely, I was wanting to build enclosed sleeping spaces, like cabins. She's onto the tent things, I'm not. She's into the wooden platforms, I'm not. I hear ya on bugs and animals, but not one thing has disturbed anything of hers. It's very odd. A matter of time?

Plumbing cabins would get pricey if it meant more and more wells, more septic past the full one and portable tanks (not much worse than RV dumping). There are some large water tanks that can provide good enough running water, and I am not opposed to in-cabin full bathroom, I just have to be able to afford it. I am hoping that the first one past the barn will get fully plumbed, just because it will be nearest. After that, I don't know. we can use a borer and run pipe, but not sure where it becomes too far. Anything I build, I have to maintain. But definitely, the more in-cabin amenities, the higher rent can be charged.

I will have a storage container, she already has one. eventually I plan to remodel to an apartment. I am not sure how much I want to try to flip, tho. To me, having lived in this 40s house for 20 years, I would rather build something new than attempt to change something old. Maybe more cost, but less frustration and surprises.

I also want to build weird places, like the mud hut, the glass block house on gravel (just for the irony), maybe some Arched cabins, some Gilligan's Island type huts (once our bamboo forest is producing....), a tree house, ... there are a lot of cute prefab kits so I might make the rounds of those ....
 

Chrispee

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
1,392
Reaction score
716
Points
323
Location
BC, Canada
Enjoying this storyline! I only have one piece of advice: get a pickup truck.
 

sue1947

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,748
Reaction score
1,193
Points
523
Location
Seattle
Resorts Owned
Worldmark and VI
Birding is a natural, but I hadn't thought of it for groups! I have been taking my bird and tree books with me! These are exactly the kind of people I'd like to show up and hang out with me at my Sunrise Coffee Bar! Eventually some of that will be fully enclosed but open air to start, partial roof.

I strongly urge you to work on the birding connection. For birding trips, we start early and wander around, but there needs to be a bathroom break at some point. If there are snacks/coffee nearby, sales are made. This would be a good option for your Sunrise Coffee Bar. If a bathroom were available, composting or otherwise, you might become a regular stop on any trips in the area. My suggestions now are more towards helping you think through what you need when you build the barn. So, as an example, if you added plumbing to the barn, you could have a half bath with an outside door for use by the public. The other side could have a locking door into the shower portion. Or a composting toilet outside would be fine as well. Birders aren't picky; we've seen worse in old campgrounds etc.

You've got a great plan. It's going to be a matter of what needs to be done first and a lot of hard work. But it's a fun project to watch as you progress, especially now when we are limited in what we can do. Thanks for taking us along with you.

Sue
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,777
Reaction score
5,531
Points
848
Enjoying this storyline! I only have one piece of advice: get a pickup truck.
Yeah, my timing wasn't great - sold my truck about a month before I ran across Stacey! It's fine, she and other resident both have pickups.

I am hoping to establish relationships with local small town vendors that deliver. Home Depot would deliver a shrink wrapped pallet of bags of concrete or whatever...
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,777
Reaction score
5,531
Points
848
I strongly urge you to work on the birding connection. For birding trips, we start early and wander around, but there needs to be a bathroom break at some point. If there are snacks/coffee nearby, sales are made. This would be a good option for your Sunrise Coffee Bar. If a bathroom were available, composting or otherwise, you might become a regular stop on any trips in the area. My suggestions now are more towards helping you think through what you need when you build the barn. So, as an example, if you added plumbing to the barn, you could have a half bath with an outside door for use by the public. The other side could have a locking door into the shower portion. Or a composting toilet outside would be fine as well. Birders aren't picky; we've seen worse in old campgrounds etc.

You've got a great plan. It's going to be a matter of what needs to be done first and a lot of hard work. But it's a fun project to watch as you progress, especially now when we are limited in what we can do. Thanks for taking us along with you.

Sue
Sue, you turned my head already, sent mail to my friend. Your idea has wheels, exceptionally well suited to everything we are doing. Plus, I would very much like to learn more. I like watching birds, just short on knowledge (learning a lot from the hawk family nested here on my property - amazing to watch the young being trained to hunt). Perhaps the best birder in the group would like to hold a class, not only impart knowledge to rookies, but pick up some $ for it. I'd take the class.

She doesn't think the land gets birds because none have used the bird bath that is in shade cover right by main camp. I told her before, wrong place for it! Put the bird bath where you see the birds, they aren't going to find this. If I had independent flight, I would be unlikely to point myself towards underside of a tree stand, I'd clear it above.

I am confident that as a garden builds out, as I make a berry patch, put up bird houses, they will come. There are fruit and nut trees planned as well. I will try my hand at many different flowers as well, I want pops of color all over the place.

I did plan to build bathrooms here and there along paths (it was a long haul from where I was working rocks for waterfalls all the way up the hill.... nobody needs that!), and there will definitely be one near the classroom/coffee shop/parking lot area. I think it should be at least 4 stools. Coffee bar would definitely have a bathroom off to the corner.

One of the best parts to this is that every time the group comes, something new will be there, no entrance fee to come wander around, please tell me what you think, what's wrong, what else does it need..... Further, they have intel on what I might plant to attract the birds they want to see. They can also tell me where else they need a bench, or a platform for better view.
I would like a group of regulars, honestly. I'm not from around there, it will take time to become part of the community, so, having community in is a good thing. Furthering my own bird knowledge is extra benefit.

Thank you so much!
 

chellej

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
2,530
Reaction score
1,261
Points
548
Location
Spokane, Wa
I know you mentioned the # of bathrooms vs septic system but I think what you are talking about would probably fall under commercial use which here in Washington has a whole different set of rules ( my desk is next to the wastewater engineers so I here alot of there conversations). Something your friend might want to explore
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,777
Reaction score
5,531
Points
848
question to the group - bunkhouse.

I am planning Cabin Culdesac, have in mind family reunion type things, or just grown siblings getting their families together. I wanted a bunkhouse for simple buddy housing, and I wondered, would kids find it really cool to have their own slumber party in a bunkhouse? Some of the cabins may be very small, I thought it would be nice to offer the bunkhouse, cut rate, if, I dunno, 3 other cabins were booked. More space for adults, more space (and fun) for kids.

Would you be comfortable with this with your own kids ?? assume that 'culdesac' is its own little community, I wouldn't rent cabins to strangers not part of the booking group, so rather a private lane, but, still, kind of wilderness. Every bed I install will have a hook for flashlight and whistle, everyone has their own and expected to carry with them. Because I might house kids alone in those, there will be a bathroom inside.

Alternatively, maybe assign bunkhouse to your sister that has 5 kids and a dog....

Other potential use for bunkhouse is a buddy trip, I was thinking hunters and fishermen, getting together with pals they've known since college or whatever, just want a place to sleep, not really planning to hang out at camp. Access to 'community' kitchen there, and I could see my way clear to adding a solar beverage cooler inside.

Further, I am sure there will be some Nervous Nellies, not at all sure about this camping thing, and maybe soothed by numbers, vs trying to sleep in their own cabin, terrified. In my larger gal pal travelling group, we have one of those. The rest of us would be fine sharing a dorm type situation just to help one of us feel better, even tho we would prefer private quarters.

If we got super popular, I could rent those by the bed vs party, kind of a hostel...

what do we think about bunkhouses??
 
Top