my new home is going to be a barn

[Cornell]

awesome to read -- keep on, keep on.

 

[geekette]

Years ago myself parents retired and moved to the mountains. They got a pre-fab home installed. It was really quick, nice, and had plumbing. As I recall the cost was very reasonable. Perfect for the two of them. Good luck to you.

Thanks!

That's awesome! I bet its a fun place to visit! I would have loved for my parents to do that! Seems like such a low-hassle start.

Zook is one of the prefab companies I was looking into. They will actually help promote the building on AirBnB, too, a nice boost. I was thinking of one of their bunkhouses at Cabin Cul-de-sac... Some of their cabin designs are very enticing. I tried not to look at homes in order to not risk tempting my budget too high ...

Prefab is definitely fast and from what I've seen, doesn't sacrifice quality, since they took their time indoors. When I can afford to do a well and septic plus a house, I might go with prefab. Fast and easy has its place.

I do like the idea of paying a neighbor whose mill has been too idle in 2020. But, fast, I don't know about that... it's ok with me, actually, if it takes months. I doubt it, though, I have seen this family in action....

 

[bogey21]

How about a log cabin. Wonder what the cost differential is between a prefab and a log cabin...

George

 

[chellej]

How about a log cabin. Wonder what the cost differential is between a prefab and a log cabin...

George

We have been going through this process with our cabin....first looked at log kits ..they say to multiply the cost of the logs times 4 to get the build price. We thought they were overestimating but it is correct. We paid to have a custom design, priced the logs to build ($95000)and when you multiplied we were looking at $500000 build.....if it was our primary home that was one thing but too much for a second home for us. We decided to build a garage and put quarters on top until we were ready to move there full time. Ended up buying local cut logs for a smaller footprint....still very expensive. Not to mention the logs have a lot of work to finish and maintain. We are off grid and 4 years in we are slowing getting it finished. Prefab is definitely less expensive.

 

[geekette]

WILLS can be changed. You should look into getting a DEED that grants you a Life Estate.

Thank you for putting a name on this. It's hard to know what you're looking for when you don't know what you're looking for!!!

 

[geekette]

We have been going through this process with our cabin....first looked at log kits ..they say to multiply the cost of the logs times 4 to get the build price. We thought they were overestimating but it is correct. We paid to have a custom design, priced the logs to build ($95000)and when you multiplied we were looking at $500000 build.....if it was our primary home that was one thing but too much for a second home for us. We decided to build a garage and put quarters on top until we were ready to move there full time. Ended up buying local cut logs for a smaller footprint....still very expensive. Not to mention the logs have a lot of work to finish and maintain. We are off grid and 4 years in we are slowing getting it finished. Prefab is definitely less expensive.


View attachment 24570View attachment 24571

This is BEAUTIFUL!!!

Cabin was what I first envisioned.

How much of a pain is caring for the wood? I guess it depends on what the wood is, but sounds to me like every 5 years to repeat.

 

[geekette]

How about a log cabin. Wonder what the cost differential is between a prefab and a log cabin...

George

Chellej has the real experience, but I can tell you what I found from research into what is possible for delivery in my new location.

You can get a very very cheap cabin kit for under $5k, and it will be very small, less than 10x10. Think sleep there vs live there, unless a person is used to tiny house or efficiency apartment. There are other costs, like foundation (seems like 12" gravel was recommended in most I saw, some could be cement slab) that aren't included in either kits of prefab, buyer is responsible for having site ready.

From what I've looked into, prefab has a bit more 'solidly built' to it since they will literally build the home offsite, while kits have to be dumbed down and I'm at the mercy of my own ability to put it together right. For both kids and prefab, I was surprised to find great willingness to do customizations.

I'm with chellej, I can't swing big money on it, and it does add up. I'm pretty lucky to have my wood source be my builder. I'll need to hire cement guy, source the blocks and rebar, etc., for the footer, dig the trench (we may look into used heavy equipment for heavy labor jobs we will be doing over and over again). Cost of wood is big, but then the massive amount of hardware, too. Doors and windows. Roof. I'd like steel, it's not the low cost option.

At least when you buy a kit or prefab, you know what you're getting and it should all be there, no extra calling around or trips to hw store. After you've done the site prep, that is.

I could get a 12'x16' scratch n dent kit, 4 season, for about 16k, including steel roof. That does not include interior finishing or any fixtures, but does include doors and windows. I would expect to pay about double for prefab that does have interior finishing, roofed, windows and doors.

 

[chellej]

This is BEAUTIFUL!!!

Cabin was what I first envisioned.

How much of a pain is caring for the wood? I guess it depends on what the wood is, but sounds to me like every 5 years to repeat.

We had the logs professionally sandblasted once the cabin was erected. That took off the black aging otherwise you have to sand first with an Osborn brush....they were mostly peeled but we do have some interior posts and the deck posts that had to be peeled. Then you prime, stain, Chink, and then seal. There are kits that are machined that you do not have to chink.....we bought a lift to be able to get to the 2nd story and some of it was a bit hair raising. I hope the finish lasts more than 5 years...we used the best we could buy...I think it is more like 10 years.....but we will probably put on another coat of sealer in the next couple of years. That is my fear...we will have to redo things before we ever get it finished.

I think he paid about $12000 for the 12x24 bunkhouse and it was as you stated...windows, door, roof and we had to provide the foundation and finish work. It should be finished this summer complete with a full bath which will be nice to take a hot shower after working all day. The sun shower is great but I always hope the neighbors aren't out there watching with binoculars.

 

[geekette]

Yeah, second story... I hadn't originally thought I wanted a loft, but, one roof, double the space, I will definitely have at least partial second floor. A lift ... I think I could get to where I feel ok on that, much more than way up on my aluminum extension ladder. I am expecting to find people I can hire for stuff that's either too scary or too laborious for me.

solar showers... ha, yeah, we aren't to full privacy either!

 

[TravelTime]

I wish you all the best and will enjoy reading about your adventures. It sounds like you know what you want and I hope it works out with your friend and the other homesteaders. Living with a group is hard especially when money is involved. I like the suggestion that someone made about the deed.

 

[geekette]

I wish you all the best and will enjoy reading about your adventures. It sounds like you know what you want and I hope it works out with your friend and the other homesteaders. Living with a group is hard especially when money is involved. I like the suggestion that someone made about the deed.

Thank you.

Yes, I think that deed is my saver, I had never heard of that! Tuggers know everything!

Stacey is particular about who she will let live there, and everyone likes privacy, so we won't be together all time, and we shouldn't have jerks among us. To me, it's like establishing a neighborhood and picking your neighbors. She's the HOA, but does not extract a monthly fee, and has few rules about what's ok there and what isn't. She intentionally set up in a county light on regulations. Few things we can't do, and she has done the research on what needs a permit or inspection, etc. It's very helpful that she's had this plan for a long time, and this land for 2 years.

It will be a while until there is money involved between us, and only when it's coming in on a joint venture. Whatever I make from my own hobbies is mine, just like it's been here. Only, no bills like mortgage, insurance, property taxes, elec bill.... It's going to help my savings go farther, which I need for having exited career too early. Plus, easy drive to multiple timeshares in lovely mountain areas, or on down to FL, where Bluegreen has many resorts. I am much closer to what I own, and some family I haven't seen much since the 70s.

I think the big thing for me is being able to design my space to be more organized and productive (this is KEY for me, I can be disorganized yet here is Clean Start), and doing fun things I either never got around to, or I lack skills in, or just prohibited by county regs (no HOA here). I always thought it would be fun to flip houses but never found a partner for that, and this is So Much Better. We all have our own interests but lots of intersection. It's going to be helpful to have another farmer there, we can wring much more out of the land with 2 of us, and it definitely helps to have a partner for farmer's markets. loading, unloading, sitting at a table all day ....

It'll also be nice to have some people to go exploring with. We figure that having a camp means we need to understand what's around that people might be interested in, they aren't just there for camp, and we are definitely Not on the all work / no play plan. In theory, very low stress. Not kidding myself, this barn build will be reasonably complicated and I am prepared for delays. Weather, materials, waiting on an inspector or permit to be granted...

I think I will feel so much lighter, super Free, that I can roll with whatever. I have always been adaptable and this feels very much Right. I'm getting my life unstuck!

 

[WinniWoman]

Thank you.

Yes, I think that deed is my saver, I had never heard of that! Tuggers know everything!

Stacey is particular about who she will let live there, and everyone likes privacy, so we won't be together all time, and we shouldn't have jerks among us. To me, it's like establishing a neighborhood and picking your neighbors. She's the HOA, but does not extract a monthly fee, and has few rules about what's ok there and what isn't. She intentionally set up in a county light on regulations. Few things we can't do, and she has done the research on what needs a permit or inspection, etc. It's very helpful that she's had this plan for a long time, and this land for 2 years.

It will be a while until there is money involved between us, and only when it's coming in on a joint venture. Whatever I make from my own hobbies is mine, just like it's been here. Only, no bills like mortgage, insurance, property taxes, elec bill.... It's going to help my savings go farther, which I need for having exited career too early. Plus, easy drive to multiple timeshares in lovely mountain areas, or on down to FL, where Bluegreen has many resorts. I am much closer to what I own, and some family I haven't seen much since the 70s.

I think the big thing for me is being able to design my space to be more organized and productive (this is KEY for me, I can be disorganized yet here is Clean Start), and doing fun things I either never got around to, or I lack skills in, or just prohibited by county regs (no HOA here). I always thought it would be fun to flip houses but never found a partner for that, and this is So Much Better. We all have our own interests but lots of intersection. It's going to be helpful to have another farmer there, we can wring much more out of the land with 2 of us, and it definitely helps to have a partner for farmer's markets. loading, unloading, sitting at a table all day ....

It'll also be nice to have some people to go exploring with. We figure that having a camp means we need to understand what's around that people might be interested in, they aren't just there for camp, and we are definitely Not on the all work / no play plan. In theory, very low stress. Not kidding myself, this barn build will be reasonably complicated and I am prepared for delays. Weather, materials, waiting on an inspector or permit to be granted...

I think I will feel so much lighter, super Free, that I can roll with whatever. I have always been adaptable and this feels very much Right. I'm getting my life unstuck!

I agree you should have something in writing. For our house we don’t own the lot and have a lease ( in writing) that is good for 99 years- no monthly charge - just the one time $100 we paid at closing - and it renews every 99 years in perpetuity- free lease.

Though not exact, something similar might work for you.

 

[stmartinfan]

Best wishes on your new adventure! Sounds like you have the skills and enthusiasm to make it work. As someone who doesn't have those, I look forward to hearing your story as it unfolds! It's nice to see the helpful hints you're getting from people here who have experience or expertise you don't yet.

 

[pedro47]

Wishing you joy and happiness. Please share your photos before and after.

Leasing land is the best way to pass turn down property to grandkid kids and future generations. In the words of a major land owner in Virginia, " guess what they are not making any more of. land and especially waterfront properties". My friend just lease to a major retailer a plot of land for 99 years. The retailer own the building; but he owns the land.

 

[nerodog]

I would love to see pics too as you progress. You know what is best for you. I find the naysayers who question others choices have the biggest problems themselves.

Many people like to try to control others lives. I often feel that they have no control over their own.

 

[geekette]

.... You know what is best for you. I find the naysayers who question others choices have the biggest problems themselves.

Many people like to try to control others lives. I often feel that they have no control over their own.

These are both insightful and impactful comments. I appreciate them as I quit trying to figure out my harsh critic siblings.

I have always been a bit offbeat while it seems many cling to mainstream in order to belong to something. That's why I think FB and others are so popular - people want to belong, find others to validate their lives. Not everyone, of course, plenty are just communicating easily. I was brought up to be independent so I don't need outside approval, I have my own. But, dang, there are some nasty judgements in the world. There are major reasons why I am not yet telling my family about this.

If I Really Get This Right, I manage to nudge my mother to, 'Yes, I should do that, too....' as I will be living about a half hour country drive from where she was born. Two'ish? hours from her only brother and his wife, at least 2 of their grown children + grandchildren in the area. Getting her out of her overbig house has been something we have been trying for decades.

She's 87, not terribly active nor mobile, independent in her own home. Getting to needing care. She hasn't liked cold winters in a long time, maybe my magnetic personality pulls her along... not the first time we offered up a southern situation. In fact, the third. I can reuse her spare furnishings in cabins to come, but first, a massive lounge in the barn loft, excess to probably a storage container loaded from her property and transported to camp (that would be 3 containers total at camp, enough for a village...).

I can make a little ground level apartment for her near wood stove in the barn. her own potty. golf cart maybe... so she can visit, but would not be able to stay at camp long. Unless, she gets to using her body more and regaining flexibility and strength. Devious plot for rocking chairs and glider, use your legs, lady... a new plot to make into a garden would appeal to her, too, especially if we brought the decorations from her garden. I can find space for Patricia's Corner...

This has such Good Karma written all over it from so many angles. She comes from people that live into and past their late 90s. A couple ancestors past 100. I might be able to help her have less responsibilities and more fun.

the more the onion peels back, the quicker I want to get out of this place!!!!

It is quite helpful to write about this, helps me figure stuff out. The feedback is valuable, the support is priceless, and encouraging. Thank you all!

I suddenly know how I will tell my brother and sister. I may conference in them plus Mom. tell them the whole thing. It would help if I already found the place for her to live, but, google isn't worth time right now, as I would have to be IN a place to feel its vibe, and she's not going anywhere during pandemic.... but her question will be, what happens to my stuff? I think that seeing it go into container will be ok with her and then acknowledgement that it arrived. She can visit it.

good golly, I am onto something.

 

[AnnaS]

Follow your gut/your heart. I commend you for going after your dream. It might/might not be an easy decision. I think family/friends want the best for you if they truly care. They might also be afraid to do something they could never do themselves (me/guilty) and are just worried and thinking about you.

Sounds like you have done your research/know what you want/expect, etc. Don't let them stop you. We will all be waiting for pictures and follow your progress/journey.

 

[nerodog]

.... You know what is best for you. I find the naysayers who question others choices have the biggest problems themselves.


These are both insightful and impactful comments. I appreciate them as I quit trying to figure out my harsh critic siblings.

I have always been a bit offbeat while it seems many cling to mainstream in order to belong to something. That's why I think FB and others are so popular - people want to belong, find others to validate their lives. Not everyone, of course, plenty are just communicating easily. I was brought up to be independent so I don't need outside approval, I have my own. But, dang, there are some nasty judgements in the world. There are major reasons why I am not yet telling my family about this.

If I Really Get This Right, I manage to nudge my mother to, 'Yes, I should do that, too....' as I will be living about a half hour country drive from where she was born. Two'ish? hours from her only brother and his wife, at least 2 of their grown children + grandchildren in the area. Getting her out of her overbig house has been something we have been trying for decades.

She's 87, not terribly active nor mobile, independent in her own home. Getting to needing care. She hasn't liked cold winters in a long time, maybe my magnetic personality pulls her along... not the first time we offered up a southern situation. In fact, the third. I can reuse her spare furnishings in cabins to come, but first, a massive lounge in the barn loft, excess to probably a storage container loaded from her property and transported to camp (that would be 3 containers total at camp, enough for a village...).

I can make a little ground level apartment for her near wood stove in the barn. her own potty. golf cart maybe... so she can visit, but would not be able to stay at camp long. Unless, she gets to using her body more and regaining flexibility and strength. Devious plot for rocking chairs and glider, use your legs, lady... a new plot to make into a garden would appeal to her, too, especially if we brought the decorations from her garden. I can find space for Patricia's Corner...

This has such Good Karma written all over it from so many angles. She comes from people that live into and past their late 90s. A couple ancestors past 100. I might be able to help her have less responsibilities and more fun.

the more the onion peels back, the quicker I want to get out of this place!!!!

It is quite helpful to write about this, helps me figure stuff out. The feedback is valuable, the support is priceless, and encouraging. Thank you all!

I suddenly know how I will tell my brother and sister. I may conference in them plus Mom. tell them the whole thing. It would help if I already found the place for her to live, but, google isn't worth time right now, as I would have to be IN a place to feel its vibe, and she's not going anywhere during pandemic.... but her question will be, what happens to my stuff? I think that seeing it go into container will be ok with her and then acknowledgement that it arrived. She can visit it.

good golly, I am onto something.

Great to plan and dream. You're in the drivers seat. I can relate as I have friends and family that overstep their boundaries. I am always careful to respect people's boundaries and rarely tell someone what to do , unless I'm asked for an honest opinion . They can only get away with what you allow. When I relocated I got so much flak from people without any travel experience let alone making decisions on their own. Acceptance and wanting to belong is human nature but with that said, feeling comfortable and confident in your own skin is what makes things happen fir your life. As the saying goes it's not a dress rehearsal. Do it while you can and enjoy the process. Never mind the naysayers....dont validate them. Just had an instance someone wanted to convince me to cancel my trip. Harang, harang... I waited, did my own research and guess what? I didnt have to do anything, the airline cancelled. Again, this person said, well it should have been you to cancel first not the airline...same outcome. So petty and it's my decision. Hope this helps.

Having an elderly parent visit ,becoming familiar and comfortable is key to a good adjustment in my experience.

 

[Panina]

.... You know what is best for you. I find the naysayers who question others choices have the biggest problems themselves.


These are both insightful and impactful comments. I appreciate them as I quit trying to figure out my harsh critic siblings.

I have always been a bit offbeat while it seems many cling to mainstream in order to belong to something. That's why I think FB and others are so popular - people want to belong, find others to validate their lives. Not everyone, of course, plenty are just communicating easily. I was brought up to be independent so I don't need outside approval, I have my own. But, dang, there are some nasty judgements in the world. There are major reasons why I am not yet telling my family about this.

If I Really Get This Right, I manage to nudge my mother to, 'Yes, I should do that, too....' as I will be living about a half hour country drive from where she was born. Two'ish? hours from her only brother and his wife, at least 2 of their grown children + grandchildren in the area. Getting her out of her overbig house has been something we have been trying for decades.

She's 87, not terribly active nor mobile, independent in her own home. Getting to needing care. She hasn't liked cold winters in a long time, maybe my magnetic personality pulls her along... not the first time we offered up a southern situation. In fact, the third. I can reuse her spare furnishings in cabins to come, but first, a massive lounge in the barn loft, excess to probably a storage container loaded from her property and transported to camp (that would be 3 containers total at camp, enough for a village...).

I can make a little ground level apartment for her near wood stove in the barn. her own potty. golf cart maybe... so she can visit, but would not be able to stay at camp long. Unless, she gets to using her body more and regaining flexibility and strength. Devious plot for rocking chairs and glider, use your legs, lady... a new plot to make into a garden would appeal to her, too, especially if we brought the decorations from her garden. I can find space for Patricia's Corner...

This has such Good Karma written all over it from so many angles. She comes from people that live into and past their late 90s. A couple ancestors past 100. I might be able to help her have less responsibilities and more fun.

the more the onion peels back, the quicker I want to get out of this place!!!!

It is quite helpful to write about this, helps me figure stuff out. The feedback is valuable, the support is priceless, and encouraging. Thank you all!

I suddenly know how I will tell my brother and sister. I may conference in them plus Mom. tell them the whole thing. It would help if I already found the place for her to live, but, google isn't worth time right now, as I would have to be IN a place to feel its vibe, and she's not going anywhere during pandemic.... but her question will be, what happens to my stuff? I think that seeing it go into container will be ok with her and then acknowledgement that it arrived. She can visit it.

good golly, I am onto something.

Where both our journeys are different we both are creating new beginnings choosing what we want, how we want it, where we want to be.

For me it is amazing all the negativity and bad advice I am given. I am an insightful smart woman like you, who can make good decisions for myself. For the first time I am choosing to do for myself, others are having difficulties with not being able to control what I choose.

Here is to you and me. I alway believe life takes you where you need to go.

 

[geekette]

Where both our journeys are different we both are creating new beginnings choosing what we want, how we want it, where we want to be.

For me it is amazing all the negativity and bad advice I am given. I am an insightful smart woman like you, who can make good decisions for myself. For the first time I am choosing to do for myself, others are having difficulties with not being able to control what I choose.

Here is to you and me. I alway believe life takes you where you need to go.

Oh yes, massive parallels!!

I still get insulted or offended by being treated like a silly child. I don't seem to understand how that is still even possible?? My sibs don't seem to have ever known me and I no longer invite them to. I feel bad about that, but, 55 years is plenty of time to grow some semblance of acceptance, if not support.

Doing a cocktail hour with friends next week, and this is a supportive set. None of them would dream of doing what I'm doing, but they have been nonstop supportive through other non-normal things I've done. Humans continue to baffle me. Some are so accepting of even massive differences and others can't get past picky details of deviation from their strong beliefs about How Things Should Be.

Toasting you with mug of coffee!! Off we go, to find Our Own Happiness!! You know, I'll be between FL and NY, in case you need a dose of mountain air and wilderness....

 

[bogey21]

I agree you should have something in writing. For our house we don’t own the lot and have a lease ( in writing) that is good for 99 years- no monthly charge - just the one time $100 we paid at closing - and it renews every 99 years in perpetuity- free lease.

Owner of land may like this better than deeding. Deeding may be expensive if land has to be platted and recorded with County. With a lease you can negotiate what is fair to both of you and define what is being leased without formal platting...

George

 

[geekette]

Owner of land may like this better than deeding. Deeding may be expensive if land has to be platted and recorded with County. With a lease you can negotiate what is fair to both of you and define what is being leased without formal platting...

George

platting would be a problem. a big repeated problem. I could have a dozen buildings there in 5 years. So could other residents.

I'm not leasing, I don't pay to live there. I pay for what I live in at my own expense. Which I will own, so no rent or mortgage on that.

Truly a weird situation, but, probably not the weirdest.

 

[nerodog]

Oh yes, massive parallels!!

I still get insulted or offended by being treated like a silly child. I don't seem to understand how that is still even possible?? My sibs don't seem to have ever known me and I no longer invite them to. I feel bad about that, but, 55 years is plenty of time to grow some semblance of acceptance, if not support.

Doing a cocktail hour with friends next week, and this is a supportive set. None of them would dream of doing what I'm doing, but they have been nonstop supportive through other non-normal things I've done. Humans continue to baffle me. Some are so accepting of even massive differences and others can't get past picky details of deviation from their strong beliefs about How Things Should Be.

Toasting you with mug of coffee!! Off we go, to find Our Own Happiness!! You know, I'll be between FL and NY, in case you need a dose of mountain air and wilderness....

Oftentimes we react the same way to the same people and especially a sibling. The old and past responses resurface as we were kids again and we are in our designated roles. A supportive friend group really helps me and I find they can , most of them be more objective. I think we place our own fears into others decisions and behavior, especially as women. We want to keep the peace so being more assertive doesnt come as natural. Be strong and confident.

 

[geekette]

Follow your gut/your heart. I commend you for going after your dream. It might/might not be an easy decision. I think family/friends want the best for you if they truly care. They might also be afraid to do something they could never do themselves (me/guilty) and are just worried and thinking about you.

Sounds like you have done your research/know what you want/expect, etc. Don't let them stop you. We will all be waiting for pictures and follow your progress/journey.

sorry, folks, I seem to be on the shrink's couch this morning, but, dang, this is soooo therapeutic! partly why I am moving to camp and a barn, it will be so good for me, body, mind and spirit.

I think that I am simply much more of a free spirit than either my brother or sister. It's like they decide what is best for me, whether I like it or not! It's very strange, as they haven't been much involved in my adult life, so oversteps are extra offensive to me. gee, get to know me, why don't you??

I'm not sure it's fear, I think for them it is strong adherence to some traditional ways and how dare I step outside that (sis told me that my decision to not have children was 'going against society', in case that sheds light). She also has never stopped telling me she hates my house and I should move down to live near her (no, that is not ever happening, never). She seems to have always wanted to get control of me. I don't get it.

She will travel 1200 miles to "help" her 30ish oldest son look for apartments, so, it's not just me she tries to grab the wheel from. I am absolutely certain that he is capable of finding his own place to live and knows what he wants, and where. I guess she's like Marie from Everybody Loves Raymond. Smarmy, nasty tone delivered in, of course I'm right and you are wrong...

She also continues to harp on her youngest, her only daughter, about giving her grandkids. every time she does that in front of me, I ask why she isn't hounding her oldest kid about that. Nope, just the girl... I guess she fears another female "going against society..." ??? Her daughter, in fact, does not want kids. Maybe she fears her kid turning out like Aunt Geekette! oh, the horrors! A woman doing the career thing and getting her own financial independence on her own terms, finding her own happiness vs the time worn plan in sis' pocket. Shout out for dear Amy. Go, Girl, Go!

They are unable to stop this train! At whatever point I tell them, I'll be quite far into this. My brother has his mail delivered here, so it wouldn't be cool to vacate completely without telling him. I remain a non-jerk no matter how much jerky crap they pull on me. I am not interested in anything they have to say about it, I will have my answers to their inevitable questions ready to go. I expect ridicule and sarcasm from them and won't be taking the bait. My mother, I'm not sure, I think her gut feel will be happiness for me, tinged with a little fear. For her, I will take pictures and print them to send her big Proof that I'm ok.

 

[geekette]

Oftentimes we react the same way to the same people and especially a sibling. The old and past responses resurface as we were kids again and we are in our designated roles. A supportive friend group really helps me and I find they can , most of them be more objective. I think we place our own fears into others decisions and behavior, especially as women. We want to keep the peace so being more assertive doesnt come as natural. Be strong and confident.

I don't have a problem being assertive!!! I take after my dad, they do not, they are reactive like my mother. It's not always easy to tell when I am angry but it is clear when I am serious and to back off. When they yell something ridiculous, I like to go to silent stare as the piece of stupidity hangs in the air. yes, stupid birth order. youngest and dumbest got stuck on me when I was a tot and they will not ever clear their lens in their view of me. Do other adults continue to refer to younger siblings as "baby sister"? It has always felt disrespectful as I am nobody's baby.

Peace is good, but not necessary. I have upset many apple carts in the work place because I always wanted the right thing to be done, not the easy or cheap thing. It was good training for the times I did have to be near sibs. Dad told me I could be anything I wanted to be, do anything I wanted to do. He was right (and it was the right message to deliver to someone like me, while he could have instead tried to steer me to the big three - teacher, nurse, secretary). He didn't tell me, however, how much crap I would end up taking for marching to the beat of my own drummer.

I like to think that my sibs are jealous that they are not as smart as I am ; ) nor as willing to explore whatever I want to explore. My brother came to a dance competition, remarked that it was 'selling sex'. ???? now I'm a whore?? says more about him than me.... I stupidly bought tics for my sis when she was going to be in town; she came late, didn't stay long enough to see me dance. I don't need these people and they clearly have no use for me. I don't want them anywhere near my new life. With a po box address, that's easy.