MVCI System Wide Points System ?

[ajlm33]

Hello everyone,

While having dinner with some friends last night, they stated that they were told in a presentation at the Marriott Kauai property last week that Marriott would be converting all MVCI properties to a points system starting in the next 18 months. The sales rep told them that he had recently attended a corporate meeting in which the announcement was made.

Each size unit would have a point value assigned and buyers would only need to purchase the points necessary for the unit needed (like many other TS point systems). Platinum or gold or other Marriott seasons designations would no longer be necessary as it would all depend on size of unit and location.

The rep also stated that Marriott was going to handle all of their internal trades (via the points system) and use II for only non Marriott trades when this points conversion takes place in 18 months.

Please note that I am hearing this info second hand but my friends are NCV owners also and have attended other presentations at Marriott and were as surprised as I was on the points discussion info.

Anyone else heard anything on this lately or is it just a Marriott sales rep spreading unfounded rumors?

Thanks

 

[thinze3]

See if you can find out the sales person's name.
We can then check it out in detail.

 

[jlee2070]

Some time ago, I posted regarding a Survey done by Marriott which very much felt like they were fishing for a Points Alternative... Maybe they are going forward with it???

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68416

 

[ajlm33]

Some time ago, I posted regarding a Survey done by Marriott which very much felt like they were fishing for a Points Alternative... Maybe they are going forward with it???

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68416

Thanks jlee2070

Looks like the subject has already been recently covered. I did a TUG search before I posted, but evidently I used a poor search keyword. I guess we will all have to be patient to see what, if anything, MVCI will do.

 

[ciscogizmo1]

It would be cool if they went to a point system but how would they implement it....

I'm curious.. because let's say you look at NCV owners. Their platinum season runs what June to mid December. So, do all the current owners get the same number of points. It is obvious that June July and August are the prime time to visit so, should it cost more points to go that week or will it be the same for everyone in that season. I can't see someone wanting to pay the same point wise to stay at NCV in August over October. But maybe I'm not thinking outside the box.

Or how would they handle those Waiohai owners in buildings 1 through 3. They are allowed to book week 51 while owners who have deeded weeks in buildings 4 through 8 cannot book week 51.

What about fixed weeks?

If Marriott is really gonna roll this out in 18 months I would guess they would have announced it by now. Have other systems done this?

Just curious... I really like trading at 12 months especially for frequent flyer miles but I might be the minority here. I'm glad I bought places that are easy to rent.

 

[rsackett]

I would think this would be difficult to do. How would you determine the number of points an existing owner would get? If you base it on current sale price, a bronze owner would get very little. If I was a bronze owner I would expect my maintenance fees to drop by a bunch if you were to give me so few points. How would plat owners, especially ones who never trade their units, feel about their fees skyrocketing?

I would think the point’s plan would need to be voluntary with existing owners.

Ray

 

[davidvel]

Marriott was going to handle all of their internal trades (via the points system) and use II for only non Marriott trades when this points conversion takes place in 18 months.

IMO if such a system were to be put in place the only way it could work both practically and legally (esp. in CA) is if it were restricted to a system for TRADES, as referenced above.

Nothing in the deed restrictions specifically relates to any right to use II for trades, nor any other system. People can use Redweek, II, etc. Of course by their nature, the deeds and TS Decs. of the CA resorts give the owner the right to trade their "time" however they wish and tell Marriott to allow such and such person to check-in other than the Owner--Marriott just doesn't have to be involved in any particular system.

That being said, if Marriott wants to set up its own "Redweek" for Marriott to Marriott trades using points, nothing would keep them from doing this as a parallel system to II and Redweek.

(Not sure from a legal prospective how they could restrict someone from depositing in II or using Redweek to trade back into a Marriott though.) Given Marriott's control over MVCI inventory in general this could be a good system for owners. Although, contrary to my prior posts on this topic, they may be able to legally restrict such a system to direct purchasers. :annoyed:

As the timeshare declarations go to the heart of what is conveyed and owned by title, I cannot see such a change affecting the current reservation and use system set forth in those documents.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

I'll worry about it when I see it actually happen.

Until then, it's just business as usual using the existing system already in place.

No sense in worrying about something that may or may not come to pass:zzz:

 

[ondeadlin]

There would be some fascinating fallout if this comes to pass. Like any system, there will be plusses and minuses.

A few predications:

--- They'll pitch the system as completely voluntary to keep complaints to a minimum. Don't like the new system? You can still use II! But ...

--- There will quickly be a huge decrease in II availability for the best weeks (Hawaii, ski, Hilton Head summer, holidays, etc.), because the best weeks will have tremendous value in this new system. You'll probably be able to take a Mountainside ski week and spend a month in Orlando certain times of the year, or two weeks in Phoenix, etc.

--- The Marriott to Marriott trade window advantage quickly goes away, as II punishes Marriott for cutting it out of the best weeks.

--- Some weeks that currently go for rock bottom prices (Streamside ski and summer, Breckenridge ski and summer and, to a lesser extent, Park City summer) will have point values that surprise people, leading to some increase in their value.

--- Similar weeks (Grande Vista and Grande Lakes vs. Horizons Orlando, for instance) will have markedly different point values, with the new resorts costing more points than the old in the same location.

--- The value of Summit Watch bronze weeks almost completely goes away as Marriott inventory decreases in II, leading to fewer last-minute bargain trades.

Now, what would really be interesting would be if Marriott draws a line and says, from this point forward, resale owners can't take part in the internal trading system (a la Starwood). I think it will happen, and I think when it does resale values will take a big, big hit.

 

[taffy19]

We also received this email quite a while ago and I remember filling it out but I missed the thread about it in April because we were in HI. I also keep thinking how can they pull this off with most customers being happy with the change?

All platinum prices were the same as of a certain date but now you may have different point values for different weeks and that my not go over too well if you happen to be late in getting your reservations but you paid the same high price for the timeshare condo. I still believe that the majority buys from the Marriott direct.

One thing I can clearly see is that the more weeks you own, the better it will be for you as you can choose the weeks with the most points in the system so you'll have more vacation days or stay at the top locations at the highest demanded vacation or holiday weeks. JMHO.

 

[McFail]

There is a point system right now. We just can't see it.

 

[VacationPro]

There is a point system right now. We just can't see it.

I agree. I think all platinum weeks will be assigned the same number of points, similar to the way Starwood assigns them to Westin Platinum seasons and Hyatt and Hilton assign their top weeks at each resort. I'm not sure how the Horizons brand will be handled, but perhaps similar to the way Sheraton is with Starwood, where the platinum seasons have fewer points assigned than the Westin. Gold, Silver and Bronze will have fewer. Platinum Plus will be higher, as will the new Premium Platinum (or whatever they are calling the newest Orlando timeshare high weeks) will be higher (I don't think it is a coincidence that they have come up with another "super" platinum season for the new timeshare--I expect the points to be correspondingly higher in the new system.)

 

[ondeadlin]

I agree. I think all platinum weeks will be assigned the same number of points, similar to the way Starwood assigns them to Westin Platinum seasons and Hyatt and Hilton assign their top weeks at each resort.

I don't think there's any chance a prime week in Maui is given the same value as a prime week in Orlando. Ditto for a Mountainside ski week, etc.

 

[KathyPet]

How are the view differences going to be acounted for? Will a oceanfront platinum view have the same # of points as a gardenview platinum???

 

[dougp26364]

I would think this would be difficult to do. How would you determine the number of points an existing owner would get? If you base it on current sale price, a bronze owner would get very little. If I was a bronze owner I would expect my maintenance fees to drop by a bunch if you were to give me so few points. How would plat owners, especially ones who never trade their units, feel about their fees skyrocketing?

I would think the point’s plan would need to be voluntary with existing owners.

Ray

In HGVC's points based reservation system, they charge MF's based on size alone and not the points given the unit. So a Gold season 2 bedroom unit worth 5,000 points pays the same MF as a Platinum season week that has 7,000 points. Same with Silver and Bronze season weeks. They all pay the same MF. This is one reason, at least when it comes to the resale market, that the common wisdom is to buy Platinum season even if you don't really feel you need a Platinum week.

If Marriott makes this change, some will be happy, others won't be so happy. For me there will be pro's and con's. Right now, I can exchange my 1 bedroom LO unit for 2 bedroom Plat. season units in resorts that only have 2 bedroom units. In a points based system, I won't be able to do that. In fact I'll probably be relegated to finding other 1 bedroom units with Marriott.

On the plus side Marriott will be able to control what inventory is given to I.I. and what inventory is held for Marriott owners. This should hold all the best weeks for Marriott owners to reserve rather than having owners reserve the best weeks to deposit just because of the "exchange" power. With HGVC it's been relatively easy to get into Hawaii because of their point system favoring HGVC owners over exchangers.

 

[dougp26364]

I don't think there's any chance a prime week in Maui is given the same value as a prime week in Orlando. Ditto for a Mountainside ski week, etc.

Again, LOOK at the HGVC system. That's been exactly how they've done it. There is a difference in value for view or amenities such as units classified as "Penthouse." If I wanted to, I coud trade my 7,000 HGVC points, which is a 2 bedroom Platinum season week, that are deeded in Las Vegas for a 2 bedroom Platinum season week in Hawaii. Actually, I've already done it for a January 2009 exchange.

I wouldn't go so far to say there isn't a chance when one of the most popular points exchange systems already does this.

 

[dougp26364]

How are the view differences going to be acounted for? Will a oceanfront platinum view have the same # of points as a gardenview platinum???

I believe in most other points systems views have a higher point total. I can't speak for all of them but I can say that Hilton's system requires higher points for units with a "view" or for a unit with upgraded amenities such as a "penthouse" unit.

 

[KathyPet]

Would the owners of units with premium views at a resort that has view differentials get more points than a owner in the same season with a lesser view?

 

[kjd]

Who usually benefits from change?

While assessing the benefits of any proposed change you have to ask who will benefit from such a change. It is usually the entity that proposes the change in the first place.

For example, if new purchase incentives are changed it is probably because timeshares at a given location are not selling as projected. If maintanence fees are raised it may be because the developer either had them artificially low to attract buyers initially or costs have risen to the point where profit margins to the management company are in jeopardy. Does anyone think there is no profit in managing these TS?

That's why I'm am leery about any changes to the current system. I doubt the motivation to offer a points system has anything to do with benefiting owners. Although, it probably would be sold to us that way.

I think that we would have to have a lot more information on a change to a point system to see if it benefits us.

 

[ondeadlin]

Again, LOOK at the HGVC system. That's been exactly how they've done it.

Doug, I'm perfectly aware how Hilton does it, I just disagree with you that that's how Marriott will do it.

I expect a system much more like Hyatt, where there are 20 diamond weeks at the Hyatt Grand Aspen (costing 2200 points for a 2BR, the max in the system) and only three at the Hyatt Florida properties. Ditto for Starwood, where a 2BR Westin Kanapali costs 148,100 points for all 52 weeks of the year, but there are multiple resorts in the SPG system where NO week is worth 148,100 points. Ditto for the Worldmark point system.

So I'd say Hilton is actually the exception. Although, for the record, I'd prefer a Hilton-like system, I just don't think that's what they'll do.

No extra point value for "views" in the Hyatt or Starwood systems, as far as I can tell.

Time will tell.

 

[ocdb8r]

While assessing the benefits of any proposed change you have to ask who will benefit from such a change. It is usually the entity that proposes the change in the first place.

For example, if new purchase incentives are changed it is probably because timeshares at a given location are not selling as projected. If maintanence fees are raised it may be because the developer either had them artificially low to attract buyers initially or costs have risen to the point where profit margins to the management company are in jeopardy. Does anyone think there is no profit in managing these TS?

That's why I'm am leery about any changes to the current system. I doubt the motivation to offer a points system has anything to do with benefiting owners. Although, it probably would be sold to us that way.

I think that we would have to have a lot more information on a change to a point system to see if it benefits us.

1) I think those who benefit are those with platinum weeks at premium resorts. Right now if you want to trade your prime NCV week to go to MGV you end up with at best a like for like exchange (your 2Bdrm for MGV 2Bdrm) despite the fact that you are probably paying higher maint. fees AND have a much more in demmand unit. A point system will likely give you something in remainder...you'll be able to get that MGV 2bdrm and have points left over for additional trades. Lock-offs throw a different wrench into the equation because right now many have been successful trading the both the studio side and the 1Bdrm side for full 2bdrms at a other resorts resort. That sort of benefit may not work out (depending on how points are allocated).

2) The losers will be of dog, bronze weeks that have been getting great flexchanges. They will be stuck with a paltry number of points that will only get them other dog weeks. Welcome to the pack!

3) My prediction is that if anything were to happen it would be closer to a Starwood SVN type overlay. Here are some basics of how that system works:

Points are only used for internal trading. You continue to own your week, in your season just as always. Reservations in your season 12 months out. You can decide to use your week as points at the 9 month mark to trade into other resorts. The point valuation is based on season and resort owned. In other words all Platinum weeks at Harborside Atlantis are assigned the same point values BUT that may (and IS) different from Platinum weeks at Vistana Villages. This is a good thing because it takes into account actual demand (supposedly). It also means a Platinum Harborside owner might be able to get a 2bdrm prime season at VV as well as another 2bdrm off season at say Sheraton Broadway plantation (you should all check out the point charts posted in the Starwood stickies). The one slightly odd thing is that views are not taken into account for points. So if you decide to give up your Ocean Front at Westin Kaanapali for points, you don't get more points than an island view. To me, not that big of a deal because when trading, view has never gotten you extra trade power.

4) I would assume, like Starwood, the point system would run alongside the option for II. People can take their chances and deposit with II and try to get a good week...BUT it's more of a gamble AND premium week owners will likely get more from the internal system. Marriott benefits by being able to slice some of the revenue from trading. Think about it. Even if only 20% use the internal system vs. II, with the size of Marriott, that's A LOT of trading fees to collect.

5) If ever there was a time to do it, I would say NOW is it. Why? First, as discussed in other threads usage is likely to drop given the economy (even if only a small %), Second, Marriott inventory is likely to be higher as sales are more difficult and resales increase (especially if they keep up ROFR). Both of these make it a better time to attempt a system like this because there will be a bit more leeway in demmand miscalcualtion. If they can implement this now, they might have a year or two to get a solid handle where point valuations should be....and then adjust them just like Starwood has (remember, since internal trading is completely optional, Starwood has carte blanche to adjust values as they see fit - I assume Marriott would have the same).



I think based on the back and forth people are assuming Marriott is considering some sort of Worldmark or Disney type system, where all they are selling is points. I don't see that sort of a change. What I see is much more simple. Marriott is basically going to set up its own internal trading system which will value weeks based on points (as opposed to weeks like II).

 

[ngmaui]

1) I think those who benefit are those with platinum weeks at premium resorts. Right now if you want to trade your prime NCV week to go to MGV you end up with at best a like for like exchange (your 2Bdrm for MGV 2Bdrm) despite the fact that you are probably paying higher maint. fees AND have a much more in demmand unit. A point system will likely give you something in remainder...you'll be able to get that MGV 2bdrm and have points left over for additional trades. Lock-offs throw a different wrench into the equation because right now many have been successful trading the both the studio side and the 1Bdrm side for full 2bdrms at a other resorts resort. That sort of benefit may not work out (depending on how points are allocated).

2) The losers will be of dog, bronze weeks that have been getting great flexchanges. They will be stuck with a paltry number of points that will only get them other dog weeks. Welcome to the pack!

3) My prediction is that if anything were to happen it would be closer to a Starwood SVN type overlay. Here are some basics of how that system works:

Points are only used for internal trading. You continue to own your week, in your season just as always. Reservations in your season 12 months out. You can decide to use your week as points at the 9 month mark to trade into other resorts. The point valuation is based on season and resort owned. In other words all Platinum weeks at Harborside Atlantis are assigned the same point values BUT that may (and IS) different from Platinum weeks at Vistana Villages. This is a good thing because it takes into account actual demand (supposedly). It also means a Platinum Harborside owner might be able to get a 2bdrm prime season at VV as well as another 2bdrm off season at say Sheraton Broadway plantation (you should all check out the point charts posted in the Starwood stickies). The one slightly odd thing is that views are not taken into account for points. So if you decide to give up your Ocean Front at Westin Kaanapali for points, you don't get more points than an island view. To me, not that big of a deal because when trading, view has never gotten you extra trade power.

4) I would assume, like Starwood, the point system would run alongside the option for II. People can take their chances and deposit with II and try to get a good week...BUT it's more of a gamble AND premium week owners will likely get more from the internal system. Marriott benefits by being able to slice some of the revenue from trading. Think about it. Even if only 20% use the internal system vs. II, with the size of Marriott, that's A LOT of trading fees to collect.

5) If ever there was a time to do it, I would say NOW is it. Why? First, as discussed in other threads usage is likely to drop given the economy (even if only a small %), Second, Marriott inventory is likely to be higher as sales are more difficult and resales increase (especially if they keep up ROFR). Both of these make it a better time to attempt a system like this because there will be a bit more leeway in demmand miscalcualtion. If they can implement this now, they might have a year or two to get a solid handle where point valuations should be....and then adjust them just like Starwood has (remember, since internal trading is completely optional, Starwood has carte blanche to adjust values as they see fit - I assume Marriott would have the same).



I think based on the back and forth people are assuming Marriott is considering some sort of Worldmark or Disney type system, where all they are selling is points. I don't see that sort of a change. What I see is much more simple. Marriott is basically going to set up its own internal trading system which will value weeks based on points (as opposed to weeks like II).

Very Nice post...thanks for sharing your thoughts. It will be real interesting to see how this all pans out (and how well I will be able to trade my 1 Bed Oceanview Platinum at Maui Ocean Club into 2 bedrooms elsewhere if need be without II)

 

[VacationPro]

1) I think those who benefit are those with platinum weeks at premium resorts. Right now if you want to trade your prime NCV week to go to MGV you end up with at best a like for like exchange (your 2Bdrm for MGV 2Bdrm) despite the fact that you are probably paying higher maint. fees AND have a much more in demmand unit. A point system will likely give you something in remainder...you'll be able to get that MGV 2bdrm and have points left over for additional trades. Lock-offs throw a different wrench into the equation because right now many have been successful trading the both the studio side and the 1Bdrm side for full 2bdrms at a other resorts resort. That sort of benefit may not work out (depending on how points are allocated).

2) The losers will be of dog, bronze weeks that have been getting great flexchanges. They will be stuck with a paltry number of points that will only get them other dog weeks. Welcome to the pack!

3) My prediction is that if anything were to happen it would be closer to a Starwood SVN type overlay. Here are some basics of how that system works:

Points are only used for internal trading. You continue to own your week, in your season just as always. Reservations in your season 12 months out. You can decide to use your week as points at the 9 month mark to trade into other resorts. The point valuation is based on season and resort owned. In other words all Platinum weeks at Harborside Atlantis are assigned the same point values BUT that may (and IS) different from Platinum weeks at Vistana Villages. This is a good thing because it takes into account actual demand (supposedly). It also means a Platinum Harborside owner might be able to get a 2bdrm prime season at VV as well as another 2bdrm off season at say Sheraton Broadway plantation (you should all check out the point charts posted in the Starwood stickies). The one slightly odd thing is that views are not taken into account for points. So if you decide to give up your Ocean Front at Westin Kaanapali for points, you don't get more points than an island view. To me, not that big of a deal because when trading, view has never gotten you extra trade power.

4) I would assume, like Starwood, the point system would run alongside the option for II. People can take their chances and deposit with II and try to get a good week...BUT it's more of a gamble AND premium week owners will likely get more from the internal system. Marriott benefits by being able to slice some of the revenue from trading. Think about it. Even if only 20% use the internal system vs. II, with the size of Marriott, that's A LOT of trading fees to collect.

5) If ever there was a time to do it, I would say NOW is it. Why? First, as discussed in other threads usage is likely to drop given the economy (even if only a small %), Second, Marriott inventory is likely to be higher as sales are more difficult and resales increase (especially if they keep up ROFR). Both of these make it a better time to attempt a system like this because there will be a bit more leeway in demmand miscalcualtion. If they can implement this now, they might have a year or two to get a solid handle where point valuations should be....and then adjust them just like Starwood has (remember, since internal trading is completely optional, Starwood has carte blanche to adjust values as they see fit - I assume Marriott would have the same).



I think based on the back and forth people are assuming Marriott is considering some sort of Worldmark or Disney type system, where all they are selling is points. I don't see that sort of a change. What I see is much more simple. Marriott is basically going to set up its own internal trading system which will value weeks based on points (as opposed to weeks like II).

I completely agree (and what I was trying to convey earlier in the thread). Marriott will continue to sell deeds at properties that will carry an associated point value. It will look very similar to the other major hotel timeshare systems.

 

[Mr. Vker]

We used our Phuket week in February this year. We met with our sales rep. They are no longer selling weeks in Phuket. Instead, they are selling qtys of points that are used in the Asia Club. This includes Hawaii. Each week is assigned a point value based on location, unit size and time of year. We were definatley told it would expand.

 

[taffy19]

Interesting as rumors may start become reality real soon. Isn't the Grand Chateau part of the "Asia Club" too? I thought that's what they told us when we took an update in Las Vegas?