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MVC Owner Update for Sheraton Owner

Fasttr

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I think you may find more people opting for priority interval exchange of weeks rather than converting into a DC.
Its possible that any cross system pollination preference granted via II may only be granted for those enrolled in the DC and using their "corporate account" while trading in II. That would encourage enrollment in the DC, but still allow II to be used as a vehicle (in addition to the DC) for cross platform exchanges.
 

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Its possible that any cross system pollination preference granted via II may only be granted for those enrolled in the DC and using their "corporate account" while trading in II. That would encourage enrollment in the DC, but still allow II to be used as a vehicle (in addition to the DC) for cross platform exchanges.
I am not sure that ANY II benefit is enough to spend money on enrollment.
 

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Out of curiosity, what keeps the Marriott and Vistana owners from exchanging more directly and bypassing DC and VSN altogether? For those that are not enrolled in DC and for those that have voluntary Vistana weeks it seems like an ideal solution to not pay Interval exchange fees or incur high enrollment costs.
 

SueDonJ

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I am not sure that ANY II benefit is enough to spend money on enrollment.
Marriott-to-Marriott (same size unit) exchanges via the DC-related corporate II accounts don't incur transaction fees, and that's only one example of the a la carte transaction fees that are covered under the DC annual Club Dues for enrolled Weeks. For many TUGgers the II exchange fee savings were THE reason they enrolled their eligible Weeks, knowing that they would rarely, if ever, convert the Week to DC Points.
 

CPNY

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Its possible that any cross system pollination preference granted via II may only be granted for those enrolled in the DC and using their "corporate account" while trading in II. That would encourage enrollment in the DC, but still allow II to be used as a vehicle (in addition to the DC) for cross platform exchanges.
Or they allow everyone To exchange and charge a cross brand exchange fee. Or only allow II exchanges for unenrolled weeks owners on the MVC side and the unenrolled (in the VSN) weeks owners on the VSE side. Then offer enrollment with a fee to the VSN enrolled owners. So many possibilities. I said this a while back. I’m interested to see what happens. In the meantime I just made two new reservations with star options last night, still holding out for Aruba Ocean Club to show up in II lol.
 

CPNY

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Marriott-to-Marriott (same size unit) exchanges via the DC-related corporate II accounts don't incur transaction fees, and that's only one example of the a la carte transaction fees that are covered under the DC annual Club Dues for enrolled Weeks. For many TUGgers the II exchange fee savings were THE reason they enrolled their eligible Weeks, knowing that they would rarely, if ever, convert the Week to DC Points.
Do unenrolled weeks owners pay an exchange fee for Marriott to Marriott?

When you say “corporate account” is that the interval account that comes with the DC ownership? I’ve seen it with vistana and wondering if that’s the type of account I have because I have mandatory weeks I own. In other words I don’t pay an II membership. It comes with the VSN Fee
 

Steve Fatula

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In my extreme example, I was trying to convey that the hypothetical HI owners had all either elected for points or used/rented their interval and therefore no owners' weeks were deposited into II in any given year. I'm not sure how you can conclude that this is impossible. Improbable yes, impossible no, because at the time that Marriott originally rolled out DCP, there were no restrictions on which Marriott weeks could be enrolled and once you are enrolled there is nothing limiting your ability to elect for points, that's what worries me.
If you've been on TUG for a while, you'd know there are so many folks who have no interest in enrolling. For whatever reason, they really dislike the whole points thing and want to use their week "as they always have". Regarding II trading into Marriott, I've never had an issue, and don't expect to. For 2020, traded a studio lockoff for 2BR Kauai. Nothing new. I am really surprised how easy it is and has been to get into Hawaii. I've always been surprised how many Hawaii owners must trade in II.

If you find this all worrisome, I guess that's your right to do so. Me, I don't worry. We'll see how it comes out in a number of years. I do agree it is or was wise to enroll since it's an option to elect. I can't imagine MVCI under any circumstances offering free enrollment (post 2010) without a purchase or even a super low cost enrollment. It's not what they do. And if they combine the program somehow, sure, they'll be a lot more traders. However, they'll be a lot more resorts too.

Yes, unenrolled owners pay an exchange fee, a lockoff fee, etc. With points and enrolled weeks, you pay a fixed fee often cheaper than paying all the fees and it comes with II corporate account. For me, since I always trade the studio and lock it off, the fees are cheaper than if the week were not enrolled.
 

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Often those who would have qualified in 2010 but haven't enrolled can enroll for free now either by watching a webinar or by attending a sales presentation. I doubt we'll see a mass influx, Marriott will want to maximize the profits and keep their sales force busy. IMO the big risk is that all of the groups will get II trading preference that is the same as that currently offered to Marriott though if so, it will also open up additional resorts for priority.
Basically, loss of priority is what worries me the most too. I know how my weeks/points trade currently but don't know how providing equal access to SVN owners will alter this, especially since I don't see a reciprocal benefit since I don't really care to trade into SVN resorts. That's why I bought Marriott and not Starwood.
 

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All your arguments are actually in favor of mass enrollment and allowing both Marriott and Vistana week owners to be part of the club. This would actually significantly improve availability and choice.
This may be true but only if more folks want to trade out of Marriott than folks who want to trade in. For example, if I am currently vying with 10,000 other owners for a particular date/location and now 10,000 more people are allowed in to compete for that same date/location but none of the original 10,000 decided they wanted to switch for one of the locations the new 10,000 people brought into the system, I'm now competing with twice as many people. Is my supposition faulty?
 

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Marriott-to-Marriott (same size unit) exchanges via the DC-related corporate II accounts don't incur transaction fees, and that's only one example of the a la carte transaction fees that are covered under the DC annual Club Dues for enrolled Weeks. For many TUGgers the II exchange fee savings were THE reason they enrolled their eligible Weeks, knowing that they would rarely, if ever, convert the Week to DC Points.
Do unenrolled weeks owners pay an exchange fee for Marriott to Marriott?

When you say “corporate account” is that the interval account that comes with the DC ownership? I’ve seen it with vistana and wondering if that’s the type of account I have because I have mandatory weeks I own. In other words I don’t pay an II membership. It comes with the VSN Fee
I've never seen a Vistana-affiliated II account interface so can't say if it's the same or not. The way II works with Marriott is, all Marriott Weeks are eligible to exchange via individual II accounts subject to the basics of whatever membership fee II charges plus the per-exchange transaction fees.

Enrolled Marriott Weeks can be used exactly the same ways as un-enrolled Weeks, PLUS have the option of being converted to DC Exchange Points on an annual basis. Enrolled Weeks are assigned an additional corporate II account that functions exactly the same as the individual accounts except that, the DC annual Club Dues fee covers the II membership fee and the basic exchange transaction fees for same-size Marriott-to-Marriott exchanges. Many owners who see no benefit at all to playing with DC Points enrolled their Weeks simply because it reduces the costs for exchanging via II. The more intervals you own/the more Marriott-to-Marriott exchanges you usually do, the more you save.

BUT, only enrolled Weeks can be added to these corporate II accounts. If you own non-Marriott intervals or non-enrolled Marriott Weeks and intend to continue exchanging them via II, you'll have to keep your existing individual II account and pay the fees for those transactions. Also, II add-ons like Gold membership, up-sizing, Getaways, etc in the DC-related corporate accounts are not covered by the DC Club Dues fee.

Using DC Trust (purchased) Points, all Marriott reservations are booked via the DC and all non-Marriott exchanges are booked via II corporate accounts, with the same caveats about Club Dues covering only Marriott-to-Marriott transaction fees.
 
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I've never seen a Vistana-affiliated II account interface so can't say if it's the same or not. The way II works with Marriott is, all Marriott Weeks are eligible to exchange via individual II accounts subject to the basics of whatever membership fee II charges plus the per-exchange transaction fees.

Enrolled Marriott Weeks can be used exactly the same ways as un-enrolled Weeks, PLUS have the option of being converted to DC Exchange Points on an annual basis. Enrolled Weeks are assigned an additional corporate II account that functions exactly the same as the individual accounts except that, the DC annual Club Dues fee covers the II membership fee and the basic exchange transaction fees for same-size Marriott-to-Marriott exchanges. Many owners who see no benefit at all to playing with DC Points enrolled their Weeks simply because it reduces the costs for exchanging via II. The more intervals you own/the more Marriott-to-Marriott exchanges you usually do, the more you save.

BUT, only enrolled Weeks can be added to these corporate II accounts. If you own non-Marriott intervals or non-enrolled Marriott Weeks and intend to continue exchanging them via II, you'll have to keep your existing individual II account and pay the fees for those transactions. Also, II add-ons like Gold membership, up-sizing, Getaways, etc in the DC-related corporate accounts are not covered by the DC Club Dues fee.

Using DC Trust (purchased) Points, all Marriott reservations are booked via the DC and all non-Marriott exchanges are booked via II, with the same caveats about Club Dues covering only Marriott-to-Marriott transaction fees.
Thank you for explaining. It seems to be somewhat similar for VSN II accounts. All mandatory ownerships are lumped into one II account with membership fees covered in the VSN fee. When I was looking at picking up a voluntary deed I’d have to have a completely separate account for that ownership. When I spoke to MVC Sales (I have to call them back, totally forgot) lol. I was told I’d have another II account. That all makes sense now. Thanks
 

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Thank you for explaining. It seems to be somewhat similar for VSN II accounts. All mandatory ownerships are lumped into one II account with membership fees covered in the VSN fee. When I was looking at picking up a voluntary deed I’d have to have a completely separate account for that ownership. When I spoke to MVC Sales (I have to call them back, totally forgot) lol. I was told I’d have another II account. That all makes sense now. Thanks
You're welcome. :) I did a little bit of editing while you were posting, if you want to go back and see if anything was made more or less clear.
 

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The point about you not holding your breath over MVC putting profit before customer satisfaction.... is that something you have experienced before? As a vistana owner, I have no experience with the way MVC operates. Although been in contact with sales about an enrolled Aruba resale week. Still debating.

The mere fact that salespeople constantly tell customers things that are blatantly false, shows profit over customer satisfaction. I was told by the sales team that I would have a Marriott priority with trades in II, but when the recession hit and I was not able to travel and therefore deposited my l/o with II, I could clearly see with a non-Marriott week that the priority wasn't always there. This was outside of flex time. When I mentioned this in subsequent sales meetings, the response was that they couldn't control II. Then why tell people there is priority when trading through II, if it isn't necessarily true; profit.

That's the main reason I elected to join DC was to have the option to cut II out of my trades and to know I was only exchanging with a more limited group of owners within the Marriott system. I'd like to increase my points ownership but that is not an inexpensive proposition. I really don't see a Marriott salesperson saying "don't buy points now, go buy resale SVV instead", even if they know that a change is in the pipeline that will allow those SVV weeks into the DC system sometime in the future. I don't blame them, their job is to sell Marriott.

What's the expression "fool me once..." I just don't want to feel like a fool twice over, so I'm ready for them to just tell us already what they plan to do and stop with the smoke and mirrors.
 

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This may be true but only if more folks want to trade out of Marriott than folks who want to trade in. For example, if I am currently vying with 10,000 other owners for a particular date/location and now 10,000 more people are allowed in to compete for that same date/location but none of the original 10,000 decided they wanted to switch for one of the locations the new 10,000 people brought into the system, I'm now competing with twice as many people. Is my supposition faulty?
You are correct in general. But I think it shows a certain home bias that we all have. When it comes to my own home bias, we cancelled a 2 bdr Interval booking for next year at Marriott Ko Olina, we got instead a 2 bdr at Westin Nanea. I am much happier with my trade: newer resort, I can book additional days on Staroptions at the same resort or at Westin Ka'anapali etc, etc. It is of course subjective. Additionally, I am not sure if Hawaii is your gold standard but given the lower owneship base, on a relative basis Vistana has more Hawaii capacity than MVC so we have more to fear.

This year we had guests at Westin Lagunamar in Cancun and they are MVC owners. They loved it.
 
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Out of curiosity, what keeps the Marriott and Vistana owners from exchanging more directly and bypassing DC and VSN altogether? For those that are not enrolled in DC and for those that have voluntary Vistana weeks it seems like an ideal solution to not pay Interval exchange fees or incur high enrollment costs.
Throughout the industry there's nothing, as long as the companies involved allow owners to attach Guest names to reservations of owned intervals. Marriott and Vistana both allow it so there's that, but the problem is lack of inventory because far more owners utilize the exchange companies that are included with ownership rather than seek out - if they even know this type of thing is possible - the few (mostly online) sites that facilitate private exchanges.

(Here on TUG the rules prohibit sales/rentals/exchanges ads in the public forums, so you'd have to use the Marketplace.)
 

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I speculated that a while back. It could be a third program where DC Points and Star Options would convert to a new “currency” you have the be a certain level or “buy in” In a sense deposit or convert what you own to book. It could all be done through interval. Interesting how the interval guide that was mailed today is all about “using your points to exchange with interval: it’s easy!” A guide just for points based vacation owners on how to use the interval exchange. I bet a third program could be a nice sell. But who knows, I just hope priority exchange happens first and fast.
After being away these last few weeks I just went through a stack of mail including the most recent II guide geared to Marriott ownership, which has a "Marriott Vacation Club" logo on the lower left corner of the cover. It includes an insert, "Getting The Most out of Your Vacation Club Points When Making an Exchange Through Interval" and on page 2, "As a Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Owner ..." Is this or something similar what was included with your Vistana-related II guide?

If so, you might be interested to know that this isn't anything new for Marriott owners; it was introduced a couple years after the DC introduction. (And maybe, in typical Marriott IT fashion that doesn't always account for the different products under the Marriott umbrella, it might simply be a stupid byproduct of the II mailing lists beginning to reflect that Vistana now comes under the MVW umbrella?)

If not, I'd be interested to know what's different between mine and yours because it might give some clues to what may be coming.
 

CPNY

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After being away these last few weeks I just went through a stack of mail including the most recent II guide geared to Marriott ownership, which has a "Marriott Vacation Club" logo on the lower left corner of the cover. It includes an insert, "Getting The Most out of Your Vacation Club Points When Making an Exchange Through Interval" and on page 2, "As a Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Owner ..." Is this or something similar what was included with your Vistana-related II guide?

If so, you might be interested to know that this isn't anything new for Marriott owners; it was introduced a couple years after the DC introduction. (And maybe, in typical Marriott IT fashion that doesn't always account for the different products under the Marriott umbrella, it might simply be a stupid byproduct of the II mailing lists beginning to reflect that Vistana now comes under the MVW umbrella?)

If not, I'd be interested to know what's different between mine and yours because it might give some clues to what may be coming.
Honestly the whole exchange points booklet they sent didn’t give much information at all. I thought it would have given some insight but that wasn’t the case. I suspect they sent it to learn more about how to exchange using the flex plan? Idk, I just keep buying mandatory resorts. Someone needs to stop me lol. I just booked two weeks in Bahamas this week with my new ownerships within a day of hitting my account lol.
 

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Basically, loss of priority is what worries me the most too. I know how my weeks/points trade currently but don't know how providing equal access to SVN owners will alter this, especially since I don't see a reciprocal benefit since I don't really care to trade into SVN resorts. That's why I bought Marriott and not Starwood.
Non of us do. One thing I've learned about timeshares is that they change over time and usually not for the better. I wouldn't worry much about it but I would keep my eyes open and I would be careful paying tons of money for options that could easily change and are not contractual. I remember those who bought at some of the HH resorts to use for MVC exchanges and those resorts were cut out of the system so they lost their priority. But IF the priority were opened up completely between all shared resorts, the number of properties those exchanges were looking at would increase proportionally so the overall impact would likely not be that dramatic.

This may be true but only if more folks want to trade out of Marriott than folks who want to trade in. For example, if I am currently vying with 10,000 other owners for a particular date/location and now 10,000 more people are allowed in to compete for that same date/location but none of the original 10,000 decided they wanted to switch for one of the locations the new 10,000 people brought into the system, I'm now competing with twice as many people. Is my supposition faulty?
The same answer, more options and more points. But it would likely affect some locations more than others. Aruba, MB and HHI would likely be more affected than say HI. And the reverse would be true for some of the resorts in the other systems.
 

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You are correct in general. But I think it shows a certain home bias that we all have. When it comes to my own home bias, we cancelled a 2 bdr Interval booking for next year at Marriott Ko Olina, we got instead a 2 bdr at Westin Nanea. I am much happier with my trade: newer resort, I can book additional days on Staroptions at the same resort or at Westin Ka'anapali etc, etc. It is of course subjective. Additionally, I am not sure if Hawaii is your gold standard but given the lower owneship base, on a relative basis Vistana has more Hawaii capacity than MVC so we have more to fear.

This year we had guests at Westin Lagunamar in Cancun and they are MVC owners. They loved it.
I appreciate that Vistana owners will be impacted too if there is a melding of the programs or loss of priority. Westin properties are very nice and I would love to stay in them as much as I would Marriott, if they were in locations I'd like to visit. Laguna Mar looks wonderful and Atlantis looksfun as well, but being night owls, we don't like going against the clock. I also understand that the Vistana Maui properties could potentially be on the most popular request list for Marriott owners and potentially a strong sales pitch for existing DC owners to buy more points. I am looking at this from my own selfish perspective.

I think the biggest worry is that in DC its the total points value that you own( ie your ownership status Chairman's, Presidential, Executive,etc) that determines your priority booking status within the DC program and that is subject to change at the whims of Marriott. I think with SO everyone who is wishing to trade to a non-owner resort are all on parity at 7 months. Please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding? So home resort priority is protected, but how will the two programs work together if one allows owners to trade outside their resort as early as 13 months and the other not until 7 months? Seems to me they would need to protect that 7 month threshold for Vistana owners, so it could potentially drive Vistana owners with lots of points to book Marriott with their priority at 13 months, no? Then those owners who originally bought Marriott but don't have enough points to book in a priority period will now be at a further disadvantage. Please correct me if my thinking is flawed.
Thanks,
Alex
 

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You are correct in general. But I think it shows a certain home bias that we all have. When it comes to my own home bias, we cancelled a 2 bdr Interval booking for next year at Marriott Ko Olina, we got instead a 2 bdr at Westin Nanea. I am much happier with my trade: newer resort, I can book additional days on Staroptions at the same resort or at Westin Ka'anapali etc, etc. It is of course subjective. Additionally, I am not sure if Hawaii is your gold standard but given the lower owneship base, on a relative basis Vistana has more Hawaii capacity than MVC so we have more to fear.

This year we had guests at Westin Lagunamar in Cancun and they are MVC owners. They loved it.
Funny thing is it's not really home bias in my case, unless all of Hawaii is considered home. I actually now prefer Kauai to Maui, so that's why I'm concerned about the possible diminishing of trade priority. I can't justify taking the hit on selling my Maui week to buy in Kauai just yet though.
 

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Funny thing is it's not really home bias in my case, unless all of Hawaii is considered home. I actually now prefer Kauai to Maui, so that's why I'm concerned about the possible diminishing of trade priority. I can't justify taking the hit on selling my Maui week to buy in Kauai just yet though.
 

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I think the biggest worry is that in DC its the total points value that you own( ie your ownership status Chairman's, Presidential, Executive,etc) that determines your priority booking status within the DC program and that is subject to change at the whims of Marriott. I think with SO everyone who is wishing to trade to a non-owner resort are all on parity at 7 months. Please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding? So home resort priority is protected, but how will the two programs work together if one allows owners to trade outside their resort as early as 13 months and the other not until 7 months? Seems to me they would need to protect that 7 month threshold for Vistana owners, so it could potentially drive Vistana owners with lots of points to book Marriott with their priority at 13 months, no? Then those owners who originally bought Marriott but don't have enough points to book in a priority period will now be at a further disadvantage. Please correct me if my thinking is flawed.
Thanks,
Alex
I'm not sure I'm interpreting your question accurately, but based on your example, if I'm interpreting it correctly, the lower level owners who don't own enough points for the 13-month booking window might actually be impacted less (or at least no differently) than those higher level owners who regularly book DC points at 13 months. MVC only releases up to 50% of the inventory at 13 months, so those Vistana owners who would wind up with lots of DC points (in a theoretical membership in the DC) would be competing with other high-point MVC owners for that 13-month inventory (but then, presumably, their Vistana ownership would have also been deposited to the DC Exchange, so that might siphon off some of the demand for the MVC inventory). At the 12 months point, a whole new batch of inventory is released that the lower point owners can still access as always. Yes, anyone not confirmed out of 13-month inventory would be competing for that new inventory drop as well, but that's the same way it is today.

Obviously if the Vistana owners only deposit low demand weeks into the DC Exchange but chase high demand intervals, that creates an imbalance, but that's the same way it is today if MVC owners at lower demand resorts in New Jersey or Branson convert to points and try to book Hawaii. They are creating more demand for Hawaii (they might have to bank/borrow and use three years of their points to book the high demand stuff, though), but the stuff they deposit is not as demanded.

And remember Select, Executive, Presidential, and Chairman can all book at 13 months. The only owner level that is different is the Standard Owner level - and even they can book at 13 months as well, it just costs a 20% point premium that the higher levels don't have to pay.
 

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I think with SO everyone who is wishing to trade to a non-owner resort are all on parity at 7 months. Please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding? So home resort priority is protected, but how will the two programs work together if one allows owners to trade outside their resort as early as 13 months and the other not until 7 months? Seems to me they would need to protect that 7 month threshold for Vistana owners, so it could potentially drive Vistana owners with lots of points to book Marriott with their priority at 13 months, no? Then those owners who originally bought Marriott but don't have enough points to book in a priority period will now be at a further disadvantage. Please correct me if my thinking is flawed.
Thanks,
Alex
Vistana booking within network is at 8 months.

They could treat star options like MVC enrolled weeks and if you elect to convert options to DC points then you lose VSN reservations and you play in the DC pool. With MVC/VSE buying back deeded weeks to sell Westin and Sheraton flex they could be building inventory to put into the DC program. Others will be able to give more information on the legality and building of trusts though. They could always build out a 3rd integrated product. Who really knows how it will all play out.
 

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I'm not sure I'm interpreting your question accurately, but based on your example, if I'm interpreting it correctly, the lower level owners who don't own enough points for the 13-month booking window might actually be impacted less (or at least no differently) than those higher level owners who regularly book DC points at 13 months. MVC only releases up to 50% of the inventory at 13 months, so those Vistana owners who would wind up with lots of DC points (in a theoretical membership in the DC) would be competing with other high-point MVC owners for that 13-month inventory (but then, presumably, their Vistana ownership would have also been deposited to the DC Exchange, so that might siphon off some of the demand for the MVC inventory). At the 12 months point, a whole new batch of inventory is released that the lower point owners can still access as always. Yes, anyone not confirmed out of 13-month inventory would be competing for that new inventory drop as well, but that's the same way it is today.

Obviously if the Vistana owners only deposit low demand weeks into the DC Exchange but chase high demand intervals, that creates an imbalance, but that's the same way it is today if MVC owners at lower demand resorts in New Jersey or Branson convert to points and try to book Hawaii. They are creating more demand for Hawaii (they might have to bank/borrow and use three years of their points to book the high demand stuff, though), but the stuff they deposit is not as demanded.

And remember Select, Executive, Presidential, and Chairman can all book at 13 months. The only owner level that is different is the Standard Owner level - and even they can book at 13 months as well, it just costs a 20% point premium that the higher levels don't have to pay.
Jim you make a good point about the impact potentially being greater on higher level DC members. I hadn't thought about the 50% release. The more money I have invested, the less I would like to have a potentially negative impact though.

I understand the ebb and flow of the system and there will always be changes over time as new people buy in. My main fear was when someone mentioned an amnesty or low cost enrollment option. To me that would be akin to a dam bursting; very disruptive for a while and perhaps changing the landscape permanently, although eventually returning to a new normal. Even though I could benefit from another shot at enrolling my unqualified weeks, I guess I still would prefer a gradual changing of the landscape over time rather than a deluge, especially if I've already invested a large amount of money into the existing landscape. But if Marriott does choose this option, hopefully I'm just overestimating the flood of interest in it. Or preferably goes for a third program, leaving the other two somewhat intact.
 
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